Overnight TATL - In the wrong direction
Sep 30, 2012, 11:05 am
#1
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Overnight TATL - In the wrong direction
Related to my recent baggage thread, I was thinking - why are there no overnight westbound TATL flights? I, for one, would adore a CDG/FRA-JFK leaving at 02:00 and arriving 05:00 (since there can't be a LHR departure).
Extra sleep too!
Extra sleep too!
Sep 30, 2012, 11:29 am
#2
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Probably because there would be close to zero demand for such a flight, it would throw off aircraft, crew and gate scheduling and be hard to schedule with CBP.
Sep 30, 2012, 11:32 am
#3
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Is it not because there is no air traffic control over the Atlantic so aircraft follow tracks which change direction depending on whether it is day or night?
If there were a CDG-JFK overnight flight it would risk colliding with the JFK-CDG overnight flight
If there were a CDG-JFK overnight flight it would risk colliding with the JFK-CDG overnight flight
Sep 30, 2012, 11:39 am
#5
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Sep 30, 2012, 11:40 am
#6
Join Date: Jun 2008
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There is overnight westbound TATL: it is just not for passenger traffic from Europe. Plenty of cargo, private, and military flights from Europe to North America as well as flights form Asia and the Middle East. ET even has FCO-IAD in overnight; however, it does not have traffic rights ex-FCO on the route; FCO is only a technical stop.
The reason simply is that almost zero demand; OP would likely be the only pax on the plane. Who wants to leave at night and arrive at night? There are not any westbound overnight pax flights transcon either.
OP may like to be awake at 2am. S/he is in the minority. For me -- sleep in a bed or at least on a westbound redeye, not boarding a flight.
The reason simply is that almost zero demand; OP would likely be the only pax on the plane. Who wants to leave at night and arrive at night? There are not any westbound overnight pax flights transcon either.
OP may like to be awake at 2am. S/he is in the minority. For me -- sleep in a bed or at least on a westbound redeye, not boarding a flight.
Sep 30, 2012, 11:48 am
#7
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....Oh, look... I just saw a flying pig ! 
Sep 30, 2012, 11:51 am
#8
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It sounds appealing to me, I mean, you could connect onto it after a full day at work or something, even from regions. Then you arrive with a full dat ahead of you.
It can't be much worse from a passenger perspective than overnight TATLs in the other direction. Especially in Y.
It can't be much worse from a passenger perspective than overnight TATLs in the other direction. Especially in Y.
Sep 30, 2012, 11:51 am
#9
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FCO-YYZ ET 502 440A- 810A 777
It sounds appealing to me, I mean, you could connect onto it after a full day at work or something, even from regions. Then you arrive with a full dat ahead of you.
It can't be much worse from a passenger perspective than overnight TATLs in the other direction. Especially in Y.
It can't be much worse from a passenger perspective than overnight TATLs in the other direction. Especially in Y.
In the proposed westbound, one must fight sleep until 2am -- extending one's day by perhaps 4 hrs past normal retiring time -- only to not be able to get to sleep for another or so until one is setteled at cruise level. Then one arrives at 4:00-4:30am in New York (5:00am would require really strong head winds). One would then need to get to the hotel to nap. But one's sleep would be off not just from the extra long day in New York, but also from the extra long day in Paris. One's sleep cycle is ruined on the departure day and on the arrival day -- two days -- and probably a third day from the compunded exhaustion of staying up so late in Paris and having such a long day in New York.
Last edited by Indelaware; Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 pm
Sep 30, 2012, 1:16 pm
#10
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I'm with the OP on this, I think its an attractive option, especially to the West Coast/southern destinations (MIA, DFW).
But, given that it doesn't happen, I presume that market research has determined that it wouldn't be popular.
But, given that it doesn't happen, I presume that market research has determined that it wouldn't be popular.
Sep 30, 2012, 1:17 pm
#11
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Going to sleep early is pretty impossible for me. A night flight on the slower westbound would be great -- the BA142 from Delhi does this.
Like most people under the aget of 73, I'm rarely asleep before midnight. A day in the London office, an evening in the pub, midnight taxi to heathrow, stumble onto the plane at 2, sleep for a solid 7 hours, wake at 4am bright and refreshed, early into the office in New York or Washington before the rush hour, deal with the inevitable London emails, sneak out for breakfast at 8, and back in for 9am and a full day. One could even get an evening flight back.
Alternatively get the entire weekend at home (even in MAN), get the kids off to bed on Sunday night, hop in the taxi at 9pm, dep MAN at 10pm, couple of hours watching a film before an 02:00 boarding, and as above.
On the way back, 6h00 on an east bound flight, with the lights and cabin noise on for half that time, means a horrible arrival. The day flight means a wasted day, and still requires being up at stupid-AM for an 8AM flight from New York.
It's tempting to fly the long way round to avoid it. I get less jet lag flying +8 hours to the far east than the 5 hours on the way back from New York.
p.s. I don't think Manchester has a night curfew (which makes me wonder why there isn't a 23:15 LHR-MAN flight), perhaps someone could fly from there instead?
Like most people under the aget of 73, I'm rarely asleep before midnight. A day in the London office, an evening in the pub, midnight taxi to heathrow, stumble onto the plane at 2, sleep for a solid 7 hours, wake at 4am bright and refreshed, early into the office in New York or Washington before the rush hour, deal with the inevitable London emails, sneak out for breakfast at 8, and back in for 9am and a full day. One could even get an evening flight back.
Alternatively get the entire weekend at home (even in MAN), get the kids off to bed on Sunday night, hop in the taxi at 9pm, dep MAN at 10pm, couple of hours watching a film before an 02:00 boarding, and as above.
On the way back, 6h00 on an east bound flight, with the lights and cabin noise on for half that time, means a horrible arrival. The day flight means a wasted day, and still requires being up at stupid-AM for an 8AM flight from New York.
It's tempting to fly the long way round to avoid it. I get less jet lag flying +8 hours to the far east than the 5 hours on the way back from New York.
p.s. I don't think Manchester has a night curfew (which makes me wonder why there isn't a 23:15 LHR-MAN flight), perhaps someone could fly from there instead?
Sep 30, 2012, 1:17 pm
#12
Join Date: May 2012
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I think some of my customers would love this. I could flit back and forth and not lose a moment of the working week.
I think I'd be fried, mind you, since the ones that would love this invariably have a Y travel policy.
I think I'd be fried, mind you, since the ones that would love this invariably have a Y travel policy.
Sep 30, 2012, 1:27 pm
#13
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It might work if there was a plane that cruised at half the speed as a jet, or even slower, so that one doesn't arrive and leave in the middle of the night. Lockheed Constellation, anyone?
Sep 30, 2012, 1:43 pm
#14
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Going to sleep early is pretty impossible for me. A night flight on the slower westbound would be great -- the BA142 from Delhi does this.
Like most people under the aget of 73, I'm rarely asleep before midnight. A day in the London office, an evening in the pub, midnight taxi to heathrow, stumble onto the plane at 2, sleep for a solid 7 hours, wake at 4am bright and refreshed, early into the office in New York or Washington before the rush hour, deal with the inevitable London emails, sneak out for breakfast at 8, and back in for 9am and a full day. One could even get an evening flight back.
Alternatively get the entire weekend at home (even in MAN), get the kids off to bed on Sunday night, hop in the taxi at 9pm, dep MAN at 10pm, couple of hours watching a film before an 02:00 boarding, and as above.
On the way back, 6h00 on an east bound flight, with the lights and cabin noise on for half that time, means a horrible arrival. The day flight means a wasted day, and still requires being up at stupid-AM for an 8AM flight from New York.
It's tempting to fly the long way round to avoid it. I get less jet lag flying +8 hours to the far east than the 5 hours on the way back from New York.
p.s. I don't think Manchester has a night curfew (which makes me wonder why there isn't a 23:15 LHR-MAN flight), perhaps someone could fly from there instead?
Like most people under the aget of 73, I'm rarely asleep before midnight. A day in the London office, an evening in the pub, midnight taxi to heathrow, stumble onto the plane at 2, sleep for a solid 7 hours, wake at 4am bright and refreshed, early into the office in New York or Washington before the rush hour, deal with the inevitable London emails, sneak out for breakfast at 8, and back in for 9am and a full day. One could even get an evening flight back.
Alternatively get the entire weekend at home (even in MAN), get the kids off to bed on Sunday night, hop in the taxi at 9pm, dep MAN at 10pm, couple of hours watching a film before an 02:00 boarding, and as above.
On the way back, 6h00 on an east bound flight, with the lights and cabin noise on for half that time, means a horrible arrival. The day flight means a wasted day, and still requires being up at stupid-AM for an 8AM flight from New York.
It's tempting to fly the long way round to avoid it. I get less jet lag flying +8 hours to the far east than the 5 hours on the way back from New York.
p.s. I don't think Manchester has a night curfew (which makes me wonder why there isn't a 23:15 LHR-MAN flight), perhaps someone could fly from there instead?
LGW doesn't have a curfew either
cs