Impact of Avios changes to NA customers
Nov 16, 2011, 8:40 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVP, Hhonors Gold, National Executive, Identity Gold, MLife Gold
Posts: 2,687
Impact of Avios changes to NA customers
I thought it might be helpful to gather all of the known changes for the region into one thread. Thanks everyone for your contributions!
Table updated through post 80 of this thread, and post 286 of the other main Avios thread.
Upgrades:
WT+->CW MFU Was 40k Now 45k
Change fee changes
Note: I'll try to keep up with updating at least this post with any additional data posted in this thread. If you can post in a format similar to what I have, then it'll be easier for me to update this post
Code:
AUS-DFW-LHR Y o/w Was <unk> Now 29.5k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458505-post28.html DFW-AUH CW r/t Was 160k Now 180k DFW-AUH F r/t Was 249k Now 270k DFW-DXB CW r/t Was 160k Now 180k DFW-DXB F r/t Was 240k Now 270k DFW-LHR Y o/w Was <unk> Now 25k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458505-post28.html IAD-FCO F Was <unk> Now 67.5k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458470-post17.html IAD-LON F Was <unk> Now 60k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458470-post17.html IAD-MUC F Was <unk> Now 69k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458470-post17.html IAH-FCO F o/w Was <unk> Now 97.5k Possible bug? IAH-AUH CW r/t Was 160k Now 180k IAH-AUH F r/t Was 240k Now 270k IAH-DXB CW r/t Was 160k Now 180k IAH-DXB F r/t Was 240k Now 270k IAH-LHR F o/w Was <unk> Now 75k IAH-MIA Y o/w Was <unk> Now 7.5k ICT-DFW-SAN Y r/t Was 25k Now 29k JFK-AUA J o/w Was 35k Now 20k JFK-BDA Y o/w Was <unk> Now 7.5k JFK-BDA J o/w Was 35k Now 15k JFK-BOS Y o/w Was <unk> Now 4.5k JFK-DPS F Was 75k Now 130k (CX) JFK-EZE F o/w 70k JFK-HKG J Was <unk> Now 140k (CX) JFK-HNL Y r/t Was <unk> Now 50k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458490-post23.html JFK-IAD Y o/w Was <unk> Now 4.5k JFK-JNB F r/t Was 270k Now 250k JFK-MIA-EZE F o/w 7.5k JFK-SCL-IPC J r/t Was <unk> Now 150k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458437-post13.html (LAN) JFK-SEA Y o/w Was <unk> Now 12.5k JFK-STT Y o/w Was <unk> Now 10k JFK-SXM J o/w Was 35k Now 20k JFK-YUL Y o/w Was <unk> Now 4.5k JFK-YVR Y r/t Was <unk> Now 25k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458490-post23.html JFK-YYZ Y o/w Was <unk> Now 4.5k LAX-BOI Y o/w Was <unk> Now 7.5k LAX-HNL Y o/w Was <unk> Now 12.5k LAX-MIA Y o/w Was <unk> Now 12.5k LAX-NRT No change - 25/50/75k o/w http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458528-post33.html LAX-PHX Y o/w Was <unk> Now 4.5k LAX-SCL J o/w Was 40k Now 60k LAX-SYD F o/w Was 120k Now 150k LGA-CVG Y o/w Was <unk> Now 4.5k LGA-ORD Y r/t Was 25k Now 15k MIA-BGI Y o/w Was <unk> Now 10k MIA-CUN Y r/t Was <unk> Now 9k MIA-EZE Y Was 20k Now 25k MIA-GCM Y r/t Was <unk> Now 9k MIA-IPC Y o/w Was <unk> Now 60k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458505-post28.html MIA-JFK Y r/t Was <unk> Now 15k MIA-LIM Y o/q Was <unk> Now 12.5k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458505-post28.html MIA-LIM-CUZ Y Was 20k Now 17.5k MIA-LIM-EZE Y Was 20k Now 22.5k MIA-LIM-IPC Y Was 20k Now 25k MIA-MBJ Y r/t Was <unk> Now 9k MIA-NAS Y r/t Was <unk> Now 9k MIA-PLS Y r/t Was <unk> Now 9k MIA-PUJ Y r/t Was <unk> Now 15k MIA-SPL-IPC Y Was 20k Now 37.5k MIA-SXM Y o/w Was <unk> Now 10k ORD-HKG Y Was <unk> Now 35k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458392-post7.html ORD-LHR-WAW J o/w Was <unk> Now 55k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458512-post30.html ORD-LHR-MUC J o/w Was <unk> Now 49k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458512-post30.html ORD-NRT-CGK F r/t Was 150k Now 300k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458478-post20.html ORD-RIC <unk> Was <unk> Now 18k ORD-ROC Y r/t Was <unk> Now 9k PHL-MIA-EZE F o/w 7.5k SEA-LHR F o/w Was 75k Now 75k SEA-LHR-CDG F o/w Was 75k Now 88.5k SFO-HKG F Was <unk> Now 105k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458440-post14.html (CX) SFO-HKG J o/w Was 50k Now 70k SFO-HKG-SIN J o/w Was 50k Now 90k SFO-HND No change - 25/50/75k o/w http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458528-post33.html SFO-JFK-EZE F o/w 4.5k SFO-LHR-HAM F o/w Was 75k Now 84k WAS-ORD Y r/t Was <unk> Now 9k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458541-post36.html WAS-ORY F Was <unk> Now 69k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458470-post17.html WAS-MSY Y r/t Was <unk> Now 15k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458541-post36.html YUL-LHR Y o/w Was <unk> Now 20k YUL-LHR Y+ o/w Was <unk> Now 30k YUL-LHR C o/w Was <unk> Now 40k YUL-LHR F o/w Was <unk> Now 60k YVR-HKG-TPE C o/w Was 50k Now 69k (CX) YVR-LHR Y o/w Was 25k Now 25k YVR-LHR Y+ o/w Was 37.5k Now 37.5k YVR-LHR C o/w Was 50k Now 50k YVR-LHR F o/w Was 75k Now 75k YVR-NRT-TPE C o/w Was 50k Now 70k (JL) YYC-LHR Y o/w Was 25k Now 25k YYC-LHR Y+ o/w Was 37.5k Now 37.5k YYC-LHR C o/w Was 50k Now 50k YYC-LHR F o/w Was 75k Now 75k YYZ-BKK J o/w Was <unk> Now 85k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458478-post20.html YYZ-LGA Y o/w Was 12.5k Now 4.5k http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17458441-post15.html YYZ-LHR Y o/w Was 25k Now 20k YYZ-LHR Y+ o/w Was 37.5k Now 30k YYZ-LHR C o/w Was 50k Now 40k YYZ-LHR F o/w Was 75k Now 60k
Table updated through post 80 of this thread, and post 286 of the other main Avios thread.
Upgrades:
WT+->CW MFU Was 40k Now 45k
Change fee changes
Note: I'll try to keep up with updating at least this post with any additional data posted in this thread. If you can post in a format similar to what I have, then it'll be easier for me to update this post
Last edited by OverThereTooMuch; Nov 17, 2011 at 1:01 am
Nov 16, 2011, 8:50 am
#3
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Programs: CO, AA, BA
Posts: 59
Here's one I can't understand. IAH to FCO in first is 97,500 each way. But IAH to LHR (in First) is 75,000 and LHR to FCO (in Club Europe) is 15,000. Thus, for the exact same flights, in the exact same cabins, if you book them as one itinerary from IAH to FCO, it is 97,500 each way. But if you split up the flights into segments (IAH to LHR, and LHR to FCO), it is only 90,000. This really hurts NA passengers who want to use a 2-4-1. Anybody understand why this would be the case? Why would it cost more to book one long journey than two smaller journeys?
Nov 16, 2011, 9:10 am
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,209
Looks very much like it is pricing up the whole journey in whY and multiplying by 3 to get the First price. Then, since First isn't offered on the LHR/FCO segment, you get dumped in CE instead.
Nov 16, 2011, 9:20 am
#6
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Programs: CO, AA, BA
Posts: 59
So essentially you have to pay a First Class premium for the LHR to FCO flight, despite the fact that you are only fliying Club Europe. This wouldn't matter much (because I would just split up the trip), but if I'm using a 2-4-1, I need to book them all in one itinerary. I'm not a huge BA flyer, only a few flights a year and the credit card, but this is really making me question whether BA is right for me.
Nov 16, 2011, 9:21 am
#7
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mostly AUS or rural England
Programs: BAEC redundant Bronze, AAdvantage Lifetime PLT, CO, WN, B6
Posts: 6,526
I think I can answer the first example (all one-way in Y):
AUS-DFW-LHR was 25,000, now 29,500
also
AUS-DFW-LHR-CDG was 25,000, now 34,000
AUS-DFW-LHR-FCO was 30,000, now 37,000
AUS-DFW-SJU-EIS was 17,500, now 21,500
AUS-DFW-LHR was 25,000, now 29,500
also
AUS-DFW-LHR-CDG was 25,000, now 34,000
AUS-DFW-LHR-FCO was 30,000, now 37,000
AUS-DFW-SJU-EIS was 17,500, now 21,500
Nov 16, 2011, 9:52 am
#9
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: IAD
Programs: Chase Million Miler, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 2,729
So essentially you have to pay a First Class premium for the LHR to FCO flight, despite the fact that you are only fliying Club Europe. This wouldn't matter much (because I would just split up the trip), but if I'm using a 2-4-1, I need to book them all in one itinerary. I'm not a huge BA flyer, only a few flights a year and the credit card, but this is really making me question whether BA is right for me.
I know some of the BA flyers have the "who cares about the North Americans" attitude, but gleff says on his blog that these days, it's the loyalty programs that keep the airlines afloat: "Major airlines aren’t entirely in the travel business these days, their most profitable arms have very much been their mileage programs over the years and the biggest customers of those programs are the banks. United can reasonably be said to have continued operations through bankruptcy in order to support the underlying credit card business."
Given that, it's probably not wise to dismiss such a large potential source of revenue. This may be even more true, because we all know free tickets on BA are far from free. If the loyalty program itself is profitable, then it goes to follow that BA awards must be really profitable with the fuel surcharge component.
Nov 16, 2011, 10:32 am
#11
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,660
As I noted in another thread...
JFK-EZE was 60,000 o/w in F, now 75,000
SFO-JFK-EZE was 60,000 o/w in F, now 112,500
JFK-MIA-EZE (if, for instance, JFK-EZE unavailable) was 60,000 o/w in F, now 97,500
PHL-MIA-EZE was 60,000 o/w in F, now 97,500
For now, all these itineraries are still 62,500 using AAdvantage miles.
JFK-EZE was 60,000 o/w in F, now 75,000
SFO-JFK-EZE was 60,000 o/w in F, now 112,500
JFK-MIA-EZE (if, for instance, JFK-EZE unavailable) was 60,000 o/w in F, now 97,500
PHL-MIA-EZE was 60,000 o/w in F, now 97,500
For now, all these itineraries are still 62,500 using AAdvantage miles.
Nov 16, 2011, 10:35 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,046
Good initiative! ^
But for simplicity I was thinking that it might be better to have all the routes have the mileage quoted for Y only? Or since this is FT after all maybe F only!
You can then put a note at the bottom saying that F is 3x, J 2x and W 1.5x (or their reciprocals if you take the second option).
But for simplicity I was thinking that it might be better to have all the routes have the mileage quoted for Y only? Or since this is FT after all maybe F only!
You can then put a note at the bottom saying that F is 3x, J 2x and W 1.5x (or their reciprocals if you take the second option).
Nov 16, 2011, 10:37 am
#13
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,660
I tend to think in F for two reasons:
1 - Y is an appalling use of miles, so I would rather not consider it
2 - J is very rarely available on any of the routes I fly, so I am forced to book F if I want to use miles! NA customers also don't have the option to book J on many routes, as the "premium" product is marketed as F (even if it is more like J).
1 - Y is an appalling use of miles, so I would rather not consider it
2 - J is very rarely available on any of the routes I fly, so I am forced to book F if I want to use miles! NA customers also don't have the option to book J on many routes, as the "premium" product is marketed as F (even if it is more like J).
Nov 16, 2011, 10:39 am
#14
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 108
From Miami, some of the good changes in Y:
9K RT:
Marsh Harbour +$84.60
Turks and Caicos +$117.60
Caiman Islands +$104.70
Cancun +$95.90
15K RT:
Belize +91.85
Guatemala City +85.16
San Pedro Sula +52.60
Managua +$95.60
San Jose CR +$78.13
Punta Cana DR +$135.20
St. Croix +$42.60
Bermuda +$95.85
20K RT:
Montreal +$57.09
Panama +$92.60
Quito +$96.40
Bogota +101.60
Caracas +$149.81
Port of Spain +$75.77
St- Lucia +$122.78
Antigua +$77.60
St. Kitts +$104.60
St. Maarten +$96.95
25K RT:
Lima +$98.34
Fees as shown when trying to make a booking on BA.com.
All direct flights, most on AA in May 2012, always one carrier per trip.
Fees for Quito and San Pedro Sula are lower than last week.
YMMV or is it YAMV now.
9K RT:
Marsh Harbour +$84.60
Turks and Caicos +$117.60
Caiman Islands +$104.70
Cancun +$95.90
15K RT:
Belize +91.85
Guatemala City +85.16
San Pedro Sula +52.60
Managua +$95.60
San Jose CR +$78.13
Punta Cana DR +$135.20
St. Croix +$42.60
Bermuda +$95.85
20K RT:
Montreal +$57.09
Panama +$92.60
Quito +$96.40
Bogota +101.60
Caracas +$149.81
Port of Spain +$75.77
St- Lucia +$122.78
Antigua +$77.60
St. Kitts +$104.60
St. Maarten +$96.95
25K RT:
Lima +$98.34
Fees as shown when trying to make a booking on BA.com.
All direct flights, most on AA in May 2012, always one carrier per trip.
Fees for Quito and San Pedro Sula are lower than last week.
YMMV or is it YAMV now.
Nov 16, 2011, 10:48 am
#15
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern California
Programs: Alaska MVP 75K, Delta Plat, Bonvoy Ambasador, Hilton diamond.
Posts: 527
NA BAEC members got raw deal (especially west coast)
My perspective is that west coast/central North American BAEC members got handed a major devaluation without even an upside that the east coast members got (slightly cheaper flights to europe).
I'm in California and my view is that partner awards are no longer realistic using Avios, especially with each segment having to be priced separately. How will I blow my 950K in Avios points? ...2-4-1 vouchers on BA metal followed by a swift exit from ever flying BA again by choice.
LH has great routes into NA from Europe, and *alliance awards are much cheaper @ this point millage wise, without ludicrous surcharges, or per-segment pricing!
I'm in California and my view is that partner awards are no longer realistic using Avios, especially with each segment having to be priced separately. How will I blow my 950K in Avios points? ...2-4-1 vouchers on BA metal followed by a swift exit from ever flying BA again by choice.
LH has great routes into NA from Europe, and *alliance awards are much cheaper @ this point millage wise, without ludicrous surcharges, or per-segment pricing!
