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-   -   Brazil World Cup 2014 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brazil/1439337-brazil-world-cup-2014-a.html)

3544quebec Jul 7, 13 7:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VidaNaPraia (Post 21057467)
This was an amateur game in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere (in which the ref was apparently carrying a knife throughout the game). It has as much to do with World Cup soccer as a basketball player in some ghetto neighborhood getting killed in a drive-by shooting has to do with an NBA title series.

While the story does indeed have little to do with the World Cup it certainly has much more to do with it than your analogy does to the NBA. It was a soccer referee who stabbed a soccer player involved in a game he was officiating being held tortured,killed and decapitated by soccer fans watching the same soccer game - it has everything to do with soccer in Brasil unlike a basketball player being killed in a drive-by shooting in a ghetto neighbourhood which has precious little to do with basketball except for the fact that the victim happened to play basketball.

galego Jul 8, 13 7:40 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22942007

by the same token, I guess I better cancel that weekend in Amsterdam...

VidaNaPraia Jul 8, 13 8:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3544quebec (Post 21057694)
While the story does indeed have little to do with the World Cup it certainly has much more to do with it than your analogy does to the NBA. It was a soccer referee who stabbed a soccer player involved in a game he was officiating being held tortured,killed and decapitated by soccer fans watching the same soccer game - it has everything to do with soccer in Brasil unlike a basketball player being killed in a drive-by shooting in a ghetto neighbourhood which has precious little to do with basketball except for the fact that the victim happened to play basketball.

Unless you live in that tiny village in the middle of nowhere, you have no idea what local feuds might have been simmmering perhaps for decades. And after all, how many refs routinely carry a knife during a game?
The back of beyond in Brazil can at times be very much like the old US Wild West of the 1800s.
But somehow the story of Sister Dorothy Stang didn't garner nearly as much publicity as this pointless little incident, although IMO it is much more signficant. It took 5 years for the person who supposedly hired the actual perps to be brought to (some) justice, and it took the US government intervening (Sister was a US citizen) to do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Stang

What it has to do with, IMO, is a world culture of violence that is hardly limited to Brazil or to soccer.
What it has to do with, also, is the media taking another opportunity to feature (i.e. repeat ad infinitum and blow up out of proportion) and spin a story in such a way as to scare people unfamiliar with Brazil.

What it has little to do with is the real chance of any tourist to the World Cup games coming to harm while at a game or while in Brazil.

3544quebec Jul 8, 13 8:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VidaNaPraia (Post 21060038)
Unless you live in that tiny village in the middle of nowhere, you have no idea what local feuds might have been simmmering perhaps for decades.


São Luís is the capital and largest city of the Brazilian state of Maranhão.

The city proper has a population of some 986,826 people (2008 IBGE estimate). The metropolitan area totals 1,227,659, ranked as the 16th largest in Brazil.

Hey, but don't let the facts get in the way of an irrelevant analogy/argument.

galego Jul 9, 13 8:10 am

Teresina has a population of over 800,000 and is the capital of Piauí.

Why's this relevant? Well the incident is not reported to have happened in either city

NPF Jul 9, 13 10:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by galego (Post 21066451)
Teresina has a population of over 800,000 and is the capital of Piauí.

Why's this relevant? Well the incident is not reported to have happened in either city

The link on post #14 (which initiated this particular discussion) says it happened in São Luís.

VidaNaPraia Jul 9, 13 11:15 am

According to the BBC:
"the incident took place on 30 June in the remote town of Pio XII"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23215676

I doubt this little village has ever seen a gringo tourist or ever will, WC games or not. (You can't imagine what "remote" means in that part of the country. Even "major highways" have families of donkeys and pigs wandering down the middle of them. And I have traveled in that part of the country, so I speak from experience.)

Makes one wonder what else some of the media gets wrong and how it influences the spin put on certain stories. No info on the local vendettas that might have brought this incident on because the "reporters" or whoever picked this story up for the world media outlets (???Yahoo New Zealand Sports??? whatever that is) probably can't even speak Portuguese to interview anyone.

So are you really doing a service here to any future foreign visitors by blowing this further out of proportion as it effects their possible safety in Brazil?
Much ado over nothing.

IAN-UK Jul 9, 13 3:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VidaNaPraia (Post 21067479)

So are you really doing a service here to any future foreign visitors by blowing this further out of proportion as it effects their possible safety in Brazil?
Much ado over nothing.


Much ado about nothing !! :eek: - seems a particularly callous attitude, and bizarrely out of touch with what excites news editors and their readers.

I'd say a soccer referee getting decapitated in fromt of the spectators is eminently newsworthy, wherever it happens. That it happened in Brasil at this time of social unrest makes the link to the World Cup irresistable.

The world press doesn't practise self-censorship to protect the tourism industry of the country it is reporting from, and neither do contributors to this forum.

VidaNaPraia Jul 9, 13 8:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAN-UK (Post 21068997)
Much ado about nothing !! :eek: - seems a particularly callous attitude, and bizarrely out of touch with what excites news editors and their readers.

Much ado about nothing insofar as it effects any tourist planning to go to the games of course.

I'd say a soccer referee getting decapitated in fromt of the spectators is eminently newsworthy, wherever it happens.

Yeah, bad news sells. Gore attracts those with interest in the prurient. These days that's called "newsworthy". (?)

That it happened in Brasil at this time of social unrest makes the link to the World Cup irresistable.

IMO, irresistable only to simpletons.

If it had happened at a time other than just before the World Cup, no one would have heard about it.
And by the way, have you heard the government of Brazil has just detained yet another US citizen child (6 years old) from returning home to the US from a visit to Brazil. US citizen mother has legal custody. Oh, wait...that didn't make it all over the news, but some blood-and-gore backwoods Hatfield and McCoy brawl did? Surprise, surprise.
If you think publicizing bad news out of Brazil, and defending those others who do so, is such a worthwhile way to spend your time, call your MP and ask him to put your government's pressure behind getting this child home.




The world press doesn't practise self-censorship to protect the tourism industry of the country it is reporting from, and neither do contributors to this forum.

My point is that contributors to this forum should not be blowing "crime/violence" incidents out of proportion to the extent that those who don't know Brazil well become too scared to go there.

IAN-UK Jul 10, 13 12:12 am

That it happened in Brasil at this time of social unrest makes the link to the World Cup irresistable.


IMO, irresistable only to simpletons.

If it had happened at a time other than just before the World Cup, no one would have heard about it.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Duh!!

But the whole point is that it DID happen just before the World cup!!! Hence the interest: for us simpletons :D

USAF Flyboy Jul 11, 13 1:05 pm

Back on topic. Would be interested in strategies for getting around the country for various group stage locations. We won't know the locations of group stage games until the draw in Dec, so also interested in when to book domestic flights.

Thoughts?

dieuwer2 Jul 11, 13 1:09 pm

Will the Word Cup be cancelled if the riots and looting continue?

VidaNaPraia Jul 11, 13 3:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieuwer2 (Post 21080202)
Will the Word Cup be cancelled if the riots and looting continue?

What riots and looting?
There have been mostly peaceful protests (against the severe lack of effective schools, decent infrastructure, and good health care, while corrupt politicians routinely pocket taxpayers' money), most scheduled ahead of time, in the center/downtown of some of the major cities in Brazil. People have even taken their children out to march and see what they hope to be change-in-the-making take place--and who would endanger their own child?. It is expected, though, that the majority of protestors may not have the tenacity to follow through until significant changes are made, or even until the games.
Of course, the media picks up on the small amount of violence, because that's what attracts attention and sells.
------
And please, yes, back on topic..................

USAF Flyboy, there are comfortable buses (including overnight/sleeper buses with ac and full-back seats and leg rests) and a handful of domestic airlines. At holidays, usually more buses are put on to accomodate Brazilians who travel. I expect the same will happen for the games. I also expect that flights will be limited to those already on the normal schedule, and fares, as they usually do now, will go up the closer to the departure date one gets.

NPF Jul 11, 13 3:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieuwer2 (Post 21080202)
Will the Word Cup be cancelled if the riots and looting continue?

Right now, diewer2, I would not say that we have riots and looting. The manifestations have been, for the most pacific, with due exceptions.

If we get to the point of real riots and looting (which I very much doubt it), with widespread depredations and armed conflicts happening through all the country, it could happen (cancelation of the competition).

But it is not what is happening now, and it is extremely improbable that it happens in the foreseeable future.

VidaNaPraia Jul 11, 13 7:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NPF (Post 21081026)
.... we get to the point of real riots and looting .....with widespread depredations and armed conflicts happening

Nah, only the police themselves in Salvador are allowed to get away with doing that, when they decide to go on strike and show their "power". ;-0


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