2x1 is back!, But now with more miles!
#31
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: CDG
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 1,607
Oh, I was referring to the specific routing from Europe to the US
Last edited by AirCanada881; May 10, 2015 at 10:32 am
#33
None of these have very high fuel surcharge at the moment. For a long-haul ANA flight, we are talking about $86 USD vs. $450 on a long-haul LH First flight segment. If the fuel surcharge savings from using Lifemiles is low, then the justification for paying for more miles per flight segment/trip on it goes away. Even if we just limit the universe of potential mile purchase opportunities to *A although that is clearly a false assumption (as one can also buy AA miles in lieu and etc.) If you are asking well, maybe fuel surcharge will go back up in the future. That future is unknown when and if it will happen and buying miles emphasizes on the fact you must have foreseeable need or else your miles risk being devalued suddenly by the airline - purchasing miles to just bank them is almost always a terrible proposition.
Here is a concrete example to counter your listing of ANA, Asiana and etc. LM currently charges 90K miles each way from North America to North Asia (Japan) on ANA First Class with little possibility to connect to elsewhere in Asia given the lack of First Class short-haul flights within Asia. LM also charges 115K miles each way from Europe to North Asia in First Class, which is where an European resident will have to pay to fly ANA First Class. In each case, the savings in fuel surcharge is no more than $86 or less. Alternatively, I could pay 55K miles or 60K miles using another FFP's miles respectively for ANA First Class award between Japan and North America and Japan and Europe. The amount of miles I save per one-way => (90K - 55K) = 35K or (115K - 60K) = 55K. Based on a return trip, say LHR/CDG/FRA to NRT/HND on ANA First, my savings in miles = 55K X 2 = 110K miles in lieu of $172 USD in cash savings. But because LM doesn't allow for mixed cabin connections, by using LM, I will have to pay an extra 22.5K each way for flights to reach my final destination in North Asia (other than Tokyo) as a separate ticket incurring possibly even more taxes as my connection airport thinks I depart there even though I will be merely connecting. The extra cost of = 22.5K X 2 = 45K Lifemiles + an unspecified amount of extra airport fees and government taxes. Assuming the connection point in Tokyo, we are talking about an extra tax/fee outlay of another $20 USD.
Here is a summary of actual costs and let's use a non-NA departure to placate those who claim my considerations is biased towards NA departures, which, I am obviously not.
Sample itinerary: FRA-NRT-TAO-NRT-FRA (Europe - North Asia award)
FRA-NRT-FRA in ANA First Class
NRT-TAO-NRT in ANA Business Class
Fuel surcharges: (€67+€14) X 2 = €162
Current ANA Fuel Surcharges until July 31, 2015
USD/Euro Exchange Rate: Currently, 1.12 USD/€
Total Fuel Surcharges payable: €162 X 1.12 = $181.50
Additional Japan International Passenger Facility Charge payable if using LM redemption to connect to North Asia other than Tokyo: (Ą2,090 - Ą1,050) X 2 = Ą2,080 = $17.50
Total cash savings using LM redemptions: $181.50 - $17.50 = $164 USD
Total mileage required with LM: (115K + 22.5K) X 2 = 275,000 miles
Total mileage required on an alternative FFP: 120,000 miles
Extra mileage required using LM redmeptions = 275K - 120K = 155,000 miles
Given that the current 2.2X LM promotion is targeted so only the 2X promo is publicly available. Therefore, using the latter, the best value per mile is exactly $0.0165 / LM mile. Otherwise, the value per mile of the 2.2X promo is $0.015 / LM mile.
Extra mileage cost: 155,000 miles X $0.0165 = $2,557.50 disregarding the constraint for now that one cannot buy more than 150,000 LM per year.
Adding everything up: Extra Mileage Cost - Fuel Surcharge Savings + Additional Tax/Fee Payable = $2,557.50 - $181.50 + $17.50 = $2,393.50
I hate to break it to you but using LM to fly ANA First by paying so much more in mileage cost is just downright illogical. The fuel surcharges will have to rise to the stratosphere in order to make economic sense of using LM redemption on ANA given the major constraint of LM not being able to do mixed cabin award.
Same as above, the savings on fuel surcharge do not justify for the much higher mileage cost. Plus, if we are getting into Business Class awards, as opposed to First Class awards, then the number of alternative options increase significantly. For example, one of the more popular *A Business award redemption is with Eva Airways (BR), which doesn't have First Class. However, programs such as Aeroplan and a few others do not levy fuel surcharge for flying on BR, therefore, LM loses its key advantage here. Not to mention, these alternative programs often offer free stopovers which LM does not do. So if you are keen on using *A Business awards, even if you can get all your segments on one award unlike the First Class award, you will still have to pay more by breaking up your itinerary if you want stopover(s) and/or do open jaws but paying for the "ground sector" instead as an extra redemption or cash cost.
Like I said, I know what I am talking about when I said the loss of LH F class redemption = death sentence. It really is. People who insist on paying more by punishing themselves with illusions of ANA and others being acceptable residual alternatives because they can't do the homework properly on their own is not my problem.
Indeed, by paying an extra $2300+ vs. other alternatives for the exact same trip, same class and same airline in actual total cost.
Here is a concrete example to counter your listing of ANA, Asiana and etc. LM currently charges 90K miles each way from North America to North Asia (Japan) on ANA First Class with little possibility to connect to elsewhere in Asia given the lack of First Class short-haul flights within Asia. LM also charges 115K miles each way from Europe to North Asia in First Class, which is where an European resident will have to pay to fly ANA First Class. In each case, the savings in fuel surcharge is no more than $86 or less. Alternatively, I could pay 55K miles or 60K miles using another FFP's miles respectively for ANA First Class award between Japan and North America and Japan and Europe. The amount of miles I save per one-way => (90K - 55K) = 35K or (115K - 60K) = 55K. Based on a return trip, say LHR/CDG/FRA to NRT/HND on ANA First, my savings in miles = 55K X 2 = 110K miles in lieu of $172 USD in cash savings. But because LM doesn't allow for mixed cabin connections, by using LM, I will have to pay an extra 22.5K each way for flights to reach my final destination in North Asia (other than Tokyo) as a separate ticket incurring possibly even more taxes as my connection airport thinks I depart there even though I will be merely connecting. The extra cost of = 22.5K X 2 = 45K Lifemiles + an unspecified amount of extra airport fees and government taxes. Assuming the connection point in Tokyo, we are talking about an extra tax/fee outlay of another $20 USD.
Here is a summary of actual costs and let's use a non-NA departure to placate those who claim my considerations is biased towards NA departures, which, I am obviously not.
Sample itinerary: FRA-NRT-TAO-NRT-FRA (Europe - North Asia award)
FRA-NRT-FRA in ANA First Class
NRT-TAO-NRT in ANA Business Class
Fuel surcharges: (€67+€14) X 2 = €162
Current ANA Fuel Surcharges until July 31, 2015
USD/Euro Exchange Rate: Currently, 1.12 USD/€
Total Fuel Surcharges payable: €162 X 1.12 = $181.50
Additional Japan International Passenger Facility Charge payable if using LM redemption to connect to North Asia other than Tokyo: (Ą2,090 - Ą1,050) X 2 = Ą2,080 = $17.50
Total cash savings using LM redemptions: $181.50 - $17.50 = $164 USD
Total mileage required with LM: (115K + 22.5K) X 2 = 275,000 miles
Total mileage required on an alternative FFP: 120,000 miles
Extra mileage required using LM redmeptions = 275K - 120K = 155,000 miles
Given that the current 2.2X LM promotion is targeted so only the 2X promo is publicly available. Therefore, using the latter, the best value per mile is exactly $0.0165 / LM mile. Otherwise, the value per mile of the 2.2X promo is $0.015 / LM mile.
Extra mileage cost: 155,000 miles X $0.0165 = $2,557.50 disregarding the constraint for now that one cannot buy more than 150,000 LM per year.
Adding everything up: Extra Mileage Cost - Fuel Surcharge Savings + Additional Tax/Fee Payable = $2,557.50 - $181.50 + $17.50 = $2,393.50
I hate to break it to you but using LM to fly ANA First by paying so much more in mileage cost is just downright illogical. The fuel surcharges will have to rise to the stratosphere in order to make economic sense of using LM redemption on ANA given the major constraint of LM not being able to do mixed cabin award.
Same as above, the savings on fuel surcharge do not justify for the much higher mileage cost. Plus, if we are getting into Business Class awards, as opposed to First Class awards, then the number of alternative options increase significantly. For example, one of the more popular *A Business award redemption is with Eva Airways (BR), which doesn't have First Class. However, programs such as Aeroplan and a few others do not levy fuel surcharge for flying on BR, therefore, LM loses its key advantage here. Not to mention, these alternative programs often offer free stopovers which LM does not do. So if you are keen on using *A Business awards, even if you can get all your segments on one award unlike the First Class award, you will still have to pay more by breaking up your itinerary if you want stopover(s) and/or do open jaws but paying for the "ground sector" instead as an extra redemption or cash cost.
Like I said, I know what I am talking about when I said the loss of LH F class redemption = death sentence. It really is. People who insist on paying more by punishing themselves with illusions of ANA and others being acceptable residual alternatives because they can't do the homework properly on their own is not my problem.
Indeed, by paying an extra $2300+ vs. other alternatives for the exact same trip, same class and same airline in actual total cost.
Last edited by Guava; May 10, 2015 at 1:00 pm
#35
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tucson
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond, Club Carlson Gold, AA, BA, US
Posts: 214
Dear xxx:
Enjoy buying miles this 25th and 26th of May. If you buy LM1,000 you´ll receive LM2,250 to enjoy with all the benefits we have for you in more than 1,300 destinations and/or our wide network partners.
#36
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC/PSP
Programs: AA EXP, A3 Gold
Posts: 4,100
Yup. Just got that too. But I bought mine on the 24th. Got lucky!
#37
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 411
i think the promotion is not generating enough activity for lifemiles. so they are sweetening up the deal with a 10% extra deal.
but till they fix some issues, i doubt it will drive enough traffic for buying miles.i am not able to use my miles bought about an year ago due to simple issues on lifemiles website and their call center is reluctant to do anything other than what the website shows.
but till they fix some issues, i doubt it will drive enough traffic for buying miles.i am not able to use my miles bought about an year ago due to simple issues on lifemiles website and their call center is reluctant to do anything other than what the website shows.
#39
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: AY Platinum, UA Premier Platinum, OneWorld Emerald, VA Platinum
Posts: 558
i think the promotion is not generating enough activity for lifemiles. so they are sweetening up the deal with a 10% extra deal.
but till they fix some issues, i doubt it will drive enough traffic for buying miles.i am not able to use my miles bought about an year ago due to simple issues on lifemiles website and their call center is reluctant to do anything other than what the website shows.
but till they fix some issues, i doubt it will drive enough traffic for buying miles.i am not able to use my miles bought about an year ago due to simple issues on lifemiles website and their call center is reluctant to do anything other than what the website shows.
#42
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 934
I am sure that is the case. The extra little bits bring the price down to the old prices- but you are still faced with the massive devaluations and impossible routing rules. I got the promo, was a buyer in the past for big blocks of miles, but just can't bring myself to invest anything more in them any more. Too limited in redemption options and I have no faith in how long before the next shoe drops.
But good to see that it can affect their bottom line when companies do things like this. I am sure they had some revenue goals for the miles sale promo and are not meeting them.
Maybe if they have something that brings cost back down around 1 cent a mile I'll give it a whirl again in the future. Otherwise I vote with my feet
But good to see that it can affect their bottom line when companies do things like this. I am sure they had some revenue goals for the miles sale promo and are not meeting them.
Maybe if they have something that brings cost back down around 1 cent a mile I'll give it a whirl again in the future. Otherwise I vote with my feet
i think the promotion is not generating enough activity for lifemiles. so they are sweetening up the deal with a 10% extra deal.
but till they fix some issues, i doubt it will drive enough traffic for buying miles.i am not able to use my miles bought about an year ago due to simple issues on lifemiles website and their call center is reluctant to do anything other than what the website shows.
but till they fix some issues, i doubt it will drive enough traffic for buying miles.i am not able to use my miles bought about an year ago due to simple issues on lifemiles website and their call center is reluctant to do anything other than what the website shows.
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Airline nobody. Sad!
Posts: 26,062
I am sure that is the case. The extra little bits bring the price down to the old prices- but you are still faced with the massive devaluations and impossible routing rules. I got the promo, was a buyer in the past for big blocks of miles, but just can't bring myself to invest anything more in them any more. Too limited in redemption options and I have no faith in how long before the next shoe drops.
But good to see that it can affect their bottom line when companies do things like this. I am sure they had some revenue goals for the miles sale promo and are not meeting them.
Maybe if they have something that brings cost back down around 1 cent a mile I'll give it a whirl again in the future. Otherwise I vote with my feet
But good to see that it can affect their bottom line when companies do things like this. I am sure they had some revenue goals for the miles sale promo and are not meeting them.
Maybe if they have something that brings cost back down around 1 cent a mile I'll give it a whirl again in the future. Otherwise I vote with my feet
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
The 125% bonus per mile bought was an improvement, but I wasn't moved to jump on it and will wait for a 150-200% bonus.
Between the mileage price hikes, the routing restrictions and the poor award space availability situations which I face, I'm better off pursuing other options. At 3x for the price of 1 mile, I'd probably be back in.
Between the mileage price hikes, the routing restrictions and the poor award space availability situations which I face, I'm better off pursuing other options. At 3x for the price of 1 mile, I'd probably be back in.
#45
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: CDG
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 1,607