JohnWM

I recently visited several Asian cities, and had a grand time as a first-time tourist in that part of the world. I'm planning my next trip to the Far East, and would like to include Beijing and Shanghai.

I do realize that travel and tourism are highly personal activities. My own touristic interests are in art, history, and architecture ... and the Great Wall, of course. I do not speak Chinese. I do not mind at all joining day tours, as long as they are conducted in English.

I am hoping that the China experts here on this board might share some thoughts with me: is Beijing a 3-night or a 4-night city for a person of my interests?

Similarly, Shanghai: a 3-night city or a 4-night city?

Are there other cities in China worth 3 or perhaps 4 nights too?

Thanks very much.

moondog

5 to 2 in favor of beijing (i will readily admit that shanghai is more comfortable and has much better western food, but there is much much more for tourists to see and do in the capital)

JohnWM

Thank you very much, moondog! I appreciate your suggestion.

moondog

you might also consider flying from beijing to hangzhou (fares are as low as y350 right now) and spending a night there before moving onto shanghai (less than 2 hours by train or bus). if you do this, you should still plan on 2 nights in sh.

shazbot

Depends on what you're looking for. If you want the cultural stuff, Beijing gets priority. If you want to party, SH hands down.

greenwood

I agree with moondog. Both cities are vibrant and exciting, but Beijing demands more time simply because it seems to have far more in the way of sites. With two nights in Shanghai you'll of course have only scratched the surface, but you'll at least have a good sense for the feel of the city. With two nights in Beijing you basically only have time for the Great Wall and the Forbidden City, and there is much more in Beijing besides.

Hangzhou is a good suggestion. If you have time, you might also want to try Nanjing, which is two hours from Shanghai and was the Ming Dynasty (and Nationalist) capital.

moondog

i have to disagree with you on this point. while the death of the south bar street has certainly thrown a wrench in the beijing nighttime landscape, i would still argue that is much more fun. the only hard evidence i can posit in support of my position is that every single one of my sh friends has been blown away to the point that they won't debate this topic any more.

in sh, you can spend your wednesday's at zapata's with 2000+ fellow expats, who you can also brush shoulders with at park, vip room, dkd, or bar rouge on weekends, but beijing is considerably more interesting imo. this is due to several reasons:

-beijingers have more disposable income
-beijingers have interests beyond money
-as a nasty, politically oppressed city, beijing has fostered a vibrant art and music scene; some of the punk bands i've seen at yugong yishan blow the stuff i used to listed in college out of the water
-in beijing, it's perfectly acceptable to try out new places
-house parties are easy to pull off and always successful in beijing; in sh, people just sit around and think about park/guandi

give me a ring next time you're in town and i'll show you myself. the same offer holds for sh.

moondog

i actually lived in nj for 6 months during 1995 and have fond memories (in spite of the fact that i spent a lot of weekends in sh in order to eat properly during my stay there).

btw, it's more like 3 hours (fastest trains) from sh.

also, you'd want to choose between there and hangzhou since they are in opposite directions. i like hangzhou because it is pretty, the shangri-la is great and inexpensive, and can easily be done in a day. that said, nanjing figures considerably more prominently in chinese history (oh, don't go there during the summer; it's one of the "4 furnaces")

greenwood

I lived in Nanjing for 10 months in 1996-97. Shanghai used to be our place of escape when we wanted to remember more of what the outside world was like, though I imagine Nanjing must has changed a lot since then. My memory could be wrong of course but when I got to Nanjing they had recently put in a faster train line that had cut the journey -- I thought -- to two years.

JohnWM

Thanks again, men, for your suggestions. Thanks also for sharing your experiences and reminiscences. You've given me some good ideas.

moondog

here's the full schedule (according to tielu.org). the fastest train seems to be 2:52

T131 大连 南京 08:23 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 11:31 上海 3小时8分钟　
1461 北京 南京 07:50 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 12:30 上海 4小时40分钟　
K33 天津 南京 06:56 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 10:57 上海 4小时1分钟　
K233 石家庄 南京 03:55 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 08:46 上海 4小时51分钟　
T177 济南 南京 01:36 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 04:47 杭州 3小时11分钟　
5021 蚌埠 南京 15:00 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 19:28 上海 4小时28分钟　
L601 阜阳 南京 20:03 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 01:00 上海 4小时57分钟　
N511 亳州 南京 17:58 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 21:56 温州 3小时58分钟　
1311 南京西 南京 10:08 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 14:03 广州 3小时55分钟　
2001 南京西 南京 14:13 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 18:17 福州 4小时4分钟　
K820 黄山 南京 13:59 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 19:16 上海 5小时17分钟　
N515 南京西 南京 09:21 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 13:29 上海 4小时8分钟　
N520 黄山 南京 04:30 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 09:46 上海 5小时16分钟　
T701 南京西 南京 08:49 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 11:43 杭州 2小时54分钟　
T711 南京西 南京 07:40 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 10:54 宁波 3小时14分钟　
T713 南京 南京 13:01 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 16:13 上海 3小时12分钟　
T715 南京 南京 15:31 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 18:42 上海 3小时11分钟　
T721 南京西 南京 14:28 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 17:35 上海 3小时7分钟　
T759 南京 南京 20:26 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 23:18 上海 2小时52分钟　
2184 鹰潭 南京 05:12 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 10:26 上海 5小时14分钟　
K359 银川 南京 02:16 上海 2－7折预定[上海]酒店 机票　 06:05 上海 3小时49分钟　

greenwood

Thanks for posting the schedule -- I didn't realize you could get them online.

JohnWM, have a great time in China!

greenwood

And of course I meant two hours in the previous post, not two years.

shazbot

Hmm, interesting. I do love weds. nights @ Zapata's... so many girls on the prowl. I haven't been to Beijing in awhile, sounds like its changed from the last time I've been there. The house parties I've been to in SH have always been pretty fun, and its always interesting to see a room full of expat guys, and all local girls. Its like a Zapatas away from Zapatas.

I do feel bad for the local guys there though, all the attractive (and unattractive) girls want an expat, and theres plenty around.

moondog

we're getting way off topic here, but ime rich guys from hk and taiwan are the most sought after (particularly if they're also famous), followed by abcs with good game (a rare breed, but my best friend happens to fit this bill), followed by other expats.

beijing isn't nearly as superficial and (consequently) lacks the meat market feel. btw, i don't think it's any better now than it was 5 or 10 years back; you just need to be slightly immersed to find the good places (changes frequently)

recently, i've been spending a lot more of shanghai nights at windows (for those that don't know, windows is place you're supposed to graduate from once you get a real job) because i just can't handle that whole faux-elite thing. karting is also tons of fun and makes for a great date. mondays at rojam can still be ok if you're in the right mood and can get a good group together.