RichardInSF

I am so out of it, someone needs to tell me what an "abcs with good game" is!

I'd vote for 4 nights in Beijing and 3 nights in Shanghai if that is the choice and it's your first visit. There are just so many more must-see famous sites in Beijing.

I'm going to be in Shanghai in (probably mid-) September, moondog: does your nightlife tour offer extend to other people too?

shazbot

ABC=american born chinese.

I'm assuming game = money, or american style/attitude/etc.

I'm planning on going to SH 'round year end for my yearly trip. Just remember to watch out for hookers when you go out to the bars.

moondog

nah... good game transcends attributes like wealth/physical attractiveness/nationality/education level/etc

Richard; of course my offer extends to all, especially those from pa and mtv (where I plan on returning once I conquer the east side). I actually spent a few days in the view last week; in Portland now.

NorthOrSouth

4 nights in Beijing, 3 in Shanghai or 5 in Beijing, 2 in Shanghai. More to see in Beijing.

PTravel

In my opinion, Beijing is far more than 4-nights. We were just there a couple of months ago, stayed for 8 nights, and that was just barely enough -- there are still things we haven't gotten to see and, more importantly, parts of the city I'd like to walk, tea shops to sit in, etc.

Shanghai, because it is so new (for the most part) was somewhat less compelling. We were there 5 nights, again could have used more time, but primarily for day trips from Shanghai (we went to Tong Li -- well worth it, by the way -- but there are other small, well-preserved towns in the area that we'd like to see.

JohnWM

Thank you all for sharing your opinions and experiences with me. They go a long way towards helping me decide. Best regards. John.

dawei

Wow moondog, thems some fighting words!
But I tend to agree, I never really got into the bar scene living in Shanghai so I can't really compare. When I was in Beijing I used to hang out a place called public space, but that was nearly ten years ago. For shanghai nightlife, I've found the jazz clubs to be a really pleasant mix of locals and expats without the park97/guandi crowd... even though I'm not a huge jazz fan....Cotton club was all right as were some others but I wasn’t looking to really mingle.
To the topic at hand, while I consider myself an honorary shanghai ren I would have to agree that from the tourist’s perspective Beijing has a lot more to offer. Also, not sure where you are flying in from but for many people unaccustomed to the jump (and even some of us who are) the first day is kind of a waste so keep that in mind. Budget at least one day to the Great wall, and here I highly endorse Si Ma Tai but for a non Chinese speaker it may be hard to pull off. The two spots closer to Beijing where most of the day trips go are a little towards the Disney end for my taste. The forbidden city/tian an men will need another full day as well. And of course the summer palace, while the new roads get you there so much faster I still think you need a full day for that site as well. At some point be sure to check out bei hai park as well.
In Shanghai I would spend one day visiting the old city, the bund, and the jade Buddha temple. I think the boat tours are a good deal, and have heard good things about the Hyatt’s new Yacht but have no personal experience. For the second day I would drive out to Zhu Jia Jiao or zhou zhuang, both very pleasant water towns that are more in line with what people would expect su zhou to be like (rather then the industrial town it has become – ok Suzhou lovers flame away).
Other towns that are highly worth considering are: Hang Zhou (as noted), I think it deserves more then a day trip for Shanghai, but it is doable. Xian, a lot to see here including the terracotta warriors. Guilin is always classic. Xiamen had great seafood. If you are feeling adventurous you could try Kunming and the nearby Da Lian and Li Jiang…

moondog

I think you meant Dali.

dawei

Yep, thanks.

dtsm

More info on zapata, park, vip room, dkd, or bar rouge? When, how much, etc.?

pegasus8228

beijing could worth at least a whole week for sight seeing alone. less in the winter

shanghai is a 2 night city if for tourist spots. however, you can find good things to do every day even if you stay there for 2 weeks. shanghai is for you to experienc the live there.

the other city for 3 night (or more) i would recommend is Hangzhou, which is 2-3 hours away from Shanghai, depending on traffic.

in short, i more or less agree with moondog
BJ 4-6 nights
SH 2 nights
HZ 3-5 nights

pegasus8228

yes, the problem with SH (and to a lesser extend BJ) is that meatmarket feel. if you really want to enjoy the 'true' nightlife in china. avoid expat places or go to other cities (eg hangzhou/chengdu or even smaller ones)

moondog

zapata's -- wednesday is their big night (really, really big). when we go on wednesdays, we go after 2a because it's impossible to move earlier. goes strong till sunrise. i actually like going their on fri/sat before moving on. for all its trendiness (which i generally loathe), they make nice drinks and are generous with the booze. margaritas are around y40.

park 97 -- the california club is downstairs and upstairs at park is, well, upstairs. most people go there at around 11 or 12 on fri and sat nights. drinks are y40 - y50; bottles are expensive. usually has easy to avoid cover charge

guandi -- predominantly taiwanese crowd. most non-abc foreigners hate it.


babyface -- you didn't ask, but i thought i'd mention it because it's ok if you get a table and you can get a table for around 8 people if you buy 2 bottles, which are only around y400. i absolutely hate the beijing babyface btw; they have way too much attitude for a second tier club in a developing city.

vip -- it's always ok and is very loud; hot girls; drinks priced similar to park

dkd -- after hours on weekends. y100 cover includes 2 drinks iirc. good djs sometimes

bar rouge -- bar at bund 18. go before 10 if fri or sat (no line; no cover)

barbarossa -- in park near peoples square; also popular now

edited to add:

mural -- i can't believe i forgot to metion this one. y100 includes drinks until 2a on fridays. ratio is bad, but we always have fun there. crowd tends to be a little bit lower income then some of the hipper places

JohnWM

Thanks very much, Pegasus8228! I appreciate your suggestions; they are very helpful.

You other guys are a scream. Here I am, asking about the art, culture, and history of Chinese cities, and all you guys care about is getting laid.

You must all be 30 years younger than me! Stay kewl; you all sound hot. Go for it!!!

Bye. John.

pegasus8228

john, you are welcome.

since you mentioned culture and history, shanghai does not have a lot of history (only a couple hundred years), but recently they have built a very good museum (modern i think) and a good theater. (i haven't been to the museum though).

there are also a lot of cultural activities (theaters, shows) in beijing, perhaps more than shanghai.

the other cities (hangzhou, xian) etc, are relatively weaker in terms of cultural activities.