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Old Jun 12, 2005, 2:15 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by moondog
relax
For that, there's Tokyo. I really get tired of having to assume that everyone who approaches me has bad intentions, yet that's mandatory in China.

I know it's my problem and many other folks handle it better; but about the 85th time each day someone intentionally tries to shortchange me, tell me that "they are students who want to have tea and talk English, and I know a good tea house," or quote me a price that's 100 times higher they quote a local -- well, it just WEARS.
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Old Jun 13, 2005, 7:22 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by RichardInSF
I really get tired of having to assume that everyone who approaches me has bad intentions, yet that's mandatory in China.
I'm sorry to hear you say this because:

1) Its just not true. In my experience the vast majority of people in China I have dealt with are honest. That said you need a little common sense, ask yourself: “How would I respond if this happened in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, or Rome?” Surprise surprise the same set of rules that work in those cities work equally well in Shanghai or Beijing.

2) You are missing out on a tremendous amount by isolating yourself in a bubble.
 
Old Jun 13, 2005, 5:46 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by dawei
I'm sorry to hear you say this because:

1) Its just not true. In my experience the vast majority of people in China I have dealt with are honest. That said you need a little common sense, ask yourself: “How would I respond if this happened in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, or Rome?” Surprise surprise the same set of rules that work in those cities work equally well in Shanghai or Beijing.

2) You are missing out on a tremendous amount by isolating yourself in a bubble.
What bubble is that? I get out to a different part of town every time I get free time, generally someplace where I see no other westerners. And I didn't say that I assume everyone I deal with in China is out to cheat, just those who approach me. On a main street in Beijing or Shanghai, one where westerners will be found, this happens about once every 60 seconds or less, unless it's the middle of the night. So the frequency does matter. In New York and Chicago, I rarely get approached by anyone. In Rome, I'd apply the same rules as China, although it's still much less frequent. And unfortunately, I am also getting tired of how many street people are still around asking for handouts in S.F.
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 8:53 am
  #19  
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I've just seen a lot of people become so paranoid they miss out on a lot of great experiences...I suppose there is a balance somewhere.

Last edited by dawei; Jun 16, 2005 at 9:49 am
 
Old Jun 23, 2005, 2:45 am
  #20  
 
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by Thunderroad
I'll be arriving at Shanghai from the US (on United) and am wondering what the taxi situation is at the airport. I've only been in Shanghai once before, years ago. Are the taxis on meters? Are they honest? Do you simply get them at the curb or is there more of a process involved? And if I tell the driver I want to go to the Westin Hotel, will he understand? Thanks for any help.
A good life insurance is also recommended ...
Last month I arrive at 5h00 AM so no traffic.
Trip was fast but dangerous.
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Old Jun 23, 2005, 7:42 am
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You could also try telling the cab driver:

dai wo chee wei si ting

which translates into "Take me to The Westin Shanghai". We checked in this past Friday and were given a handy card with the Chinese names of the local attractions and it has worked wonderfully.

The cab fare from the airport to the Westin was less than Y200, which is a shockingly little amount of money to pay for the fare, given the distance traveled.
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Old Jun 23, 2005, 9:51 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by raffy
You could also try telling the cab driver:

dai wo chee wei si ting

which translates into "Take me to The Westin Shanghai". We checked in this past Friday and were given a handy card with the Chinese names of the local attractions and it has worked wonderfully.

The cab fare from the airport to the Westin was less than Y200, which is a shockingly little amount of money to pay for the fare, given the distance traveled.
Unfortunately, it is not possible to speak understandable Mandarin from phonetic English (or, at least, phonetic English that doesn't include an indication of tone). Mandarin is a tonal language and, further, uses a different phoneme set than English. Though a Mandarin speaker might pick up simple and obvious words from context, I'd be surprised if they could manage with a westerner's Americanized pronounciation of Mandarin.

Best to have it written down in advance.
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Old Jun 23, 2005, 10:03 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by PTravel
Unfortunately, it is not possible to speak understandable Mandarin from phonetic English (or, at least, phonetic English that doesn't include an indication of tone). Mandarin is a tonal language and, further, uses a different phoneme set than English. Though a Mandarin speaker might pick up simple and obvious words from context, I'd be surprised if they could manage with a westerner's Americanized pronounciation of Mandarin.

Best to have it written down in advance.
I was going to post a similar reaction; when I first read raffy's post, all I could conger up were images of my mom showing up at PVG and trying to rattle off his phonetics. She wouldn't get very far.

That said, I've long since maintained that a knowledge of the proper sounds alone (there are only about 50 and almost all are easy for English speakers to nail) can be sufficient to get by because context means everything.
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Old Jun 24, 2005, 4:31 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by moondog
That said, I've long since maintained that a knowledge of the proper sounds alone (there are only about 50 and almost all are easy for English speakers to nail) can be sufficient to get by because context means everything.
After 10 years living with my Chinese-speaking wife, viewing dozens and dozens of Chinese-language films, many trips to China, and an abortive flirtation with the Pimsler CD-based Mandarin instruction series (very funny story, there), I've gotten to the point where I can order a beer in a restaurant without the waiter saying, "Hunh?"

Still, I agree that most westerners can, and should, learn basic polite expression, e.g. ni hao, sheshe, tsai jien, etc.
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Old Jun 26, 2005, 8:32 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by PTravel
Still, I agree that most westerners can, and should, learn basic polite expression, e.g. ni hao, sheshe, tsai jien, etc.
As a matter of clarification, I was referring to sounds, not specific words. All Chinese words have phonetic and tonal components; the former are very easy for westerners to grasp.... and can be 90% effective on their own. Take, for example:

nanjing xi lu // tongren lu

As long as you get the phonetics right, pretty much any cab in the city will get you there, regardless of how off your tones are.
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Old Jun 27, 2005, 10:59 am
  #26  
 
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I am wondering if any Mandarin speaker can post about 10 phrases a traveller should know and how to pronounce them. I am familiar with sheshe and Bu Yao, but not a lot more. Thank you. Ed
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Old Jun 27, 2005, 11:49 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Vulcan
I am wondering if any Mandarin speaker can post about 10 phrases a traveller should know and how to pronounce them. I am familiar with sheshe and Bu Yao, but not a lot more. Thank you. Ed
this is one of the better sites from the first page of google results:

http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/reso...e-phrases.html

but, the back of the lp is still more useful imo.

let us know if you want to learn how to say anything more interesting.
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Old Jul 2, 2005, 2:32 pm
  #28  
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since chinese is a tonal language, i find it helpful to hear the words. try these websites. i prefer the first, but everyone likes options:

http://www.languageguide.org/mandarin/index.jsp

http://www.wku.edu/%7Eyuanh/AudioChinese/index.html
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Old Jul 2, 2005, 3:22 pm
  #29  
 
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Thank you. I was not sure what to ask for, but a lot of the words I found especially in the first link will be VERY helpful!
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Old Jul 3, 2005, 3:48 pm
  #30  
 
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Perhaps I missed it, but how do you say "thats too much" when bargaining.
Thanks
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