edgewood

i'm going to CAN in september, from NYC, first class, and want only one stop/change on the way

please give me your input on the best routing:

i prefer to leave NYC mid-day, to arrive in CAN in the evening (i know its the next day), and go to sleep. when i awake the following day, i am usually ready-to-go, no jet lag

i can fly non-stop from JFK to:

PEK- but it's air china which seems to have a first class like the old business class ten years ago, and i read only bad things about them

INC-but the times are bad or the flite arrives too late to make a connection

HKG- arrives too late to make a connection

NRT- my choice, AA/UA/JL/NH, then the last leg is on NW in business- i can live with it, i guess

anyone have any input or suggestions?

there are alternatives that i have evaluated but all with drawbacks:

CO EWR/HKG: it's BF not true first, and i was terribly uncomfortable when i flew them to HNL (and EWR is at least an hour further for me than JFK)

CZ LAX/CAN: C class not F, and leaves at midnite ( i hate arriving at 6am-screws me up for days)

does anyone have any suggestions/ideas/recommendations?

i want to go straight through, no overnite stays, no midnite departures or early am arrivals

thank you!

moondog

i'm confused about your hkg comment. while it may be true that one flight arrives too late for connections, there are a number of flights between nyc and hkg that arrive during the daytime (including the cx flight that stops in yvr).

personally, i would fly jl because they are my favorite airline and i actually like overnighting in nrt. however, i'm pretty sure you'd need to overnight in both directions. (hmmm, maybe could connect to the nw flight on the outbound?)

both ca and cz are cheap; i wouldn't fly on either though if money wasn't an issue. i recently flew c can-pek on a continuation of the lax flight (same plane, that is) and wasn't all that impressed.

edgewood

[QUOTE=moondog]i'm confused about your hkg comment. while it may be true that one flight arrives too late for connections, there are a number of flights between nyc and hkg that arrive during the daytime (including the cx flight that stops in yvr).

i mentioned i wanted only one stop between JFK and guangzhou, so HKG is a choice. the only non-stop to HKG is CX, (since I don't want the yvr stop nor a late nite departure), which does arrive too late for a connection to CAN

"personally, i would fly jl because they are my favorite airline and i actually like overnighting in nrt. however, i'm pretty sure you'd need to overnight in both directions"

no, i can take any airline (AA/UA/JL/NH) JFK/NRT and still connect to NW NRT/CAN, and i may return from HKG anyway

or, tue/fri/sat JL047 from JFK arrives early enough for a CZ codeshare (JL) and a fast connection in NRT

the problem here is the flite commences in Sao Paolo so can be delayed into JFK, and its an OLD OLD 747, with 10-year old style first class seats in pairs, not suites

moondog, thank you for the comments; i realize it's tough to relate the nuances of a personal flite choice in this format

travelinmanS

Why not take CX n/s to HK and then spend a night in HK before taking the train into GZ. Its a simple process and then you'd only have to take one flight!

I've heard nothing but bad things about NW's 757 flight from NRT to GZ. I believe the biz section is like domestic F class...in other words not a pleasant way to spend 5 hours! I've taken the OZ flight on the 767 and that sucks too, I'm sure the KA, JL, ANA options are all bad because I think they are all 2 class.

You can also take the CO nonstop from NY to HK if you want to fly biz first instead of FC and save a few bucks.

rkkwan

If you can afford CX in F, you can afford to get a private car to drive you from HKG to Guangzhou, with easy border crossing, even late at night.

Non-stop flight in one of the best F seats in the world + one 1.5 hour car trip. Don't think any of your other options is better.

edgewood

[QUOTE=travelinmanS]Why not take CX n/s to HK and then spend a night in HK before taking the train into GZ. Its a simple process and then you'd only have to take one flight! "

thank you, but as i stated in my post, i want to arrive in CAN that evening. (i do this so i can go to sleep in the same hotel i will be staying at for the duration- i just don't do well one night in a strange hotel-plus the travel time, HKG immigration clearance, etc.)

"I've heard nothing but bad things about NW's 757 flight from NRT to GZ. I believe the biz section is like domestic F class...in other words not a pleasant way to spend 5 hours! I've taken the OZ flight on the 767 and that sucks too, I'm sure the KA, JL, ANA options are all bad because I think they are all 2 class."

ah, thank you, this is the feedback i hoped for. i have flown C in 2-class planes ex-NRT to other China cities and am usually so zonked that i don't notice the discomfort. but i had hoped NW offered New World Business- i guess not!

"You can also take the CO nonstop from NY to HK if you want to fly biz first instead of FC and save a few bucks"

again, i don't want to go from EWR- its a 2 hour trip for me in no traffic- and 4 if there is!

but- can anyone give me feedback on long-haul CO 777?

i've tried their 767 and was not happy

thank you!

edgewood

ok, great option, i never would have thought of it

but- is it only 90 mins to CAN by car? everyone who has quoted me travel times within China is always off by a factor of 2. (oh, sorry, the expressway is under construction; oh, sorry the expressway is closed.....)

i have used Hertz car-and-driver with great success in China but it was a great hassle, requiring a pre-visit to the office to pay a huge CASH deposit (no credit cards!)

is it the same at HKG? or do you have a local co. to recommend to me? estimated cost? i'd guess USD250??

thank you for the insight

rkkwan

Since you arrive after 8pm, traffic shouldn't be a problem going up to Guangzhou, and border crossing shouldn't be bad unless it's during major holidays.

I don't know of specific companies to use, but many business people go up to Southern China by private car, so there are certainly such service. The same companies that run coach services from HKG should also have them - check the www.hongkongairport.com website. Or CX should have information for you if you're flying their F class.

Or some other Flyertalkers may know some companies too.

edgewood

well, i tried your suggestions

much tougher than i thought- unless i was already in HKG to make arrangements

not one of 6 HK limo services responded to my email requests

the one that did have rates posted on their site: USD600!!

(after adding in this charge and that charge and the supplement and night differential, etc.)- and i'm not sure but they may want another USD 150 for going past midnite!

and, as i feared, the elapsed times are way off- unless you have done it and can assure me its only 90 minutes

the limo buses HKG/Guangzhou are scheduled for 3hours 30minutes, more or less, per the airport website

i don't want to fly 16hours non-stop and then spend 2 hours clearing immigration and 3+hours in a car at night

that's why i think it may be better to fly directly to CAN

has anyone reading this actually flown CA "F" non-stop JFK/PEK? the reports seem awful, but it is the fastest connection to CAN

thank you

christep

Er, what? This is Hong Kong, not the USA. 30 mins max to clear immigration - most days it's less than 10 mins.

rkkwan

It's under 100 miles from HKG to Guangzhou. At night traffic shouldn't be bad, and it's a freeway. Time for clearing customs/immigration will depend, so 90-minutes is probably a best-case scenario, but it shouldn't take more than 2 hours.

Most coach companies do not give an arrival time for HKG-Guangzhou buses, but for Guangzhou-HKG during the day, they allocate about 3:10 minutes. That's a "worse-case scenario", so that people can't complain if they miss their plane in HKG. Worse case means long line at the border control, and you have to wait for all 50+ on the bus to clear it. And you can assume at least one or two may have complications and take longer.

A private car from HKG to central Guangzhou at night will not take 3 hours unless you run into trouble at the border. Just like you'll not spend 2 hours clearing immigration at HKG.

But sorry, I don't know what company can give you a better rate...

edgewood

[QUOTE=rkkwan]It's under 100 miles from HKG to Guangzhou. At night traffic shouldn't be bad, and it's a freeway. Time for clearing customs/immigration will depend, so 90-minutes is probably a best-case scenario, but it shouldn't take more than 2 hours. "

funny, i was in manhattan today and visited the HK official tourist office on E. 54th st.

their consensus? 3 hours travel time

oh well...everyone has a different idea of time...

"Just like you'll not spend 2 hours clearing immigration at HKG."

HO HO HO every time (okay only 3 times) i arrived in HKG at 8-9PM (from NRT) it has taken me 2 hours-without fail

the mob scene is so bad you aren't even lined up in the area with the chutes and ropes-just back into the hallway

remember, i can't use the HK resident lines- and there seem to be lots of fully loaded 747's that landed ahead of me with very foreign-looking families-dad, mom, 6 kids, all in headscarves-being interrogated-without any common language

believe me, i am bushed after flying from NY, i'd really like a place to take a p***, and i can't believe i'm standing for all this time

sorry, my HKG immigration experience is like the foreigners at JFK trying to get in-

anyway-problem resolved-JL JFK/NRT/CAN with only 80mins connection in NRT2 to a CZ codeshare (2-class)

i'll be fine, leave NY 10am, arrive in CAN 6pm (next day)

thanks all for your help

edgewood

"Most coach companies do not give an arrival time for HKG-Guangzhou buses,"

not to be argumentative, but i followed your earlier instructions to go the airport website, and many operators DO post travel times from HKG to Guangzhou:

From Hong Kong International Airport to Guangdong - Guangzhou
Coach
Services Route
No. Terminus Stop Price($HK) Approx.
Duration
China Travel Service - Hotel Landmark Canton Jinan University $250 3:20 Go
Hua Wei Da Hotel $250 3:20 Go
China Hotel $250 3:30 Go
Hotel Landmark Canton $250 3:40 Go
China Travel Service - White Swan Hotel Jinan University $250 3:20 Go
Hua Wei Da Hotel $250 3:20 Go
China Hotel $250 3:30 Go
White Swan Hotel $250 3:40 Go
China Travel Service - Garden Hotel Jinan University $250 3:20 Go
Hua Wei Da Hotel $250 3:20 Go
China Hotel $250 3:30 Go
Garden Hotel $250 3:30 Go

so its at least 200 minutes- but ok i understand that allows for slow border clearance

anyway- the info is under the guangzhou transport link

thanks again for your help