Hyakku

I've been incredibly fortunate to have some helpful members here lend their help in planning my summer trip with a group of friends in SE Asia this August - Sept., and I'm hoping to turn back to the forum now for help with the substance of our trip. We'll be traveling from LAX --> NRT Aug. 2 (land on the 3rd) and staying for three days to visit friends before leaving on the 6th to BKK. I'm then looking to travel until Sept. 14.

Tentatively our plan is Thailand/Cambodia (SR), Vietnam, and Indonesia. My friend then leaves around the 30th, and I'm planning on leaving from SIN to visit a friend in Australia around then until the 14th. I'm wondering if anyone with experience in the region has any specific advice on tips for the best "routing" for this trip, along with any particular activities you think are most see, unique experiences (I've been going through old threads which have been incredibly helpful, but more info is always better to me)? For the SE Asia portion, we were thinking something like:

Bangkok --> Cambodia/SR --> Chiang Mai --fly--> Hanoi --motorbike down the coast --> Ho Chi Minh --fly--> Indonesia

This seemed to be the best way to use our time between the three areas before flying to Indonesia, but I'm open to better routing.

To give some context, we're very big on outdoors/semi-"extreme" stuff (hiking, some light free climbing, skydiving, exploring, etc.), which is why we decided to go to Cambodia/Indonesia after talking to some people who knew us in real life and said that our personalities definitely fit those places. We also plan to rent motorbikes in Vietnam to ride down/up the coast.

Any help would be much appreciated. This community has been awesome so far, and I'm hoping I can give back in the future.

jiejie

I'm a little confused on dates you are trying to fill. Assuming it is arrival in BKK on August 6 to departure from SIN (to Australia) about Sept 1, I don't see where you have time to do Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Indonesia. I don't even see where you have time to do all this if your dates are from Aug 6 to Sept 14. Who is going to Indonesia--just you or others of the group? WHERE in Indonesia?--it's a spread out assortment of places that takes time and effort to get around. Are they also departing on Aug 30 leaving you a solo traveler, or Sept 14? Vietnam as you're proposing to do it will need 2-3 weeks by itself. I think you need to pick some priorities here, as it seems like a classic SE Asia newbie mistake of trying to cram too much into too little time. Distances look short on a map but there is a time cost of getting around, and lots to see and do.

Under any scenario, I don't think the routing you presented is optimum. And I think you underestimate the time you need to move overland. You also need to keep in mind that this is a very rainy time period for much of Thailand, Cambodia, and coastal Vietnam (except for central coast around Danang). Planning motorbike trips in this part of the world can also be highly hazardous to your health....probably more so than any extreme sports. If you want to stick with that plan, pay up on travel insurance with a medical evacuation and repatriation of remains clause. (I'm not being melodramatic here, but absolutely serious.)

Sorry, but until you clarify, it's difficult to come up with a cogent suggestion that fits the fuzzy time frame. And if you had to choose Vietnam vs Indonesia, which would it be? I really think you are facing that choice.

Hyakku

Thanks for the frankness, I appreciate it. I'd be trying to fill the dates of roughly Aug. 6 - Sept. 5th or so. You seem like an awesome person to mull this over with, so if I could throw out some of my considerations and get your input I'd appreciate it.

Basically, I don't anticipate being able to travel extensively, or even for more than about a week for about twoish years after starting a new position in late September, so while I would like to indulge and really relax at a lot of places, I'm really hoping to cram as much as possible, while still being able to enjoy. I realize its a delicate balance and I may be erring on the side of too much now, but just wanted to provide that context.

To your questions, I'll have a number of friends in the area past the 30th (at least 3 - 4 in each of the more "mainstream" SE countries), so travel companions shouldn't be too much of a concern. I'm used to kind of bouncing around with most of these people (for instance, we did kind of a fire tour of Europe over a week hitting three different countries we wanted to see a few years back as we knew we couldn't get back there), and though it sounds strange, a lot of the reason I enjoy traveling is kind of just being a silent witness to life in the country. In that sense, I actually really enjoy traveling by train/taxi/buses, even if the conditions aren't great, and we're pretty young, so I'd rather punish my body now and maximize what I can do on this trip. Because I haven't been to Africa, the Middle East, China, or Eastern Europe, there may legitimately be another 6 years before I get a chance to get back to this region of the world for vacation if I'm fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to maintain my career, as I would want to use my limited vacation to get to other places.

I hadn't given as much consideration to the biking in rainy season, even though I had been looking into weather related issues, I appreciate you raising that point. It may instead be something that we choose to do in the middle, dryer region that you're talking about, and take the train down to Ho Chi Minh to cut out a lot of travel. Would that make it more feasible to at least travel from Hanoi to HCM in your opinion?

As for Thailand/Cambodia, we didn't really intend to spend too much time in Cambodia, and figured we could do Siam Reap for about two days, although obviously from Bangkok to SR it looks like it would be about 10-11ish hours round trip ideally, so we basically lose a day in travel time. I've been thinking about canceling that leg and focusing on Thailand/Vietnam and Indonesia, but I'd really like to see SR.

In Indonesia, we were leaning Bali to enjoy the touristy aspect, and because from my friends in the region's advice they assure me that some genuine experiences can still be had there as well. Like I said though, if there's a place that you're aware of where we can get a lot of the outdoors/adventure type of experiences, that would be great to know.

Edit: Ah, and ideally I would definitely like to do both, but I guess if I had to choose between Vietnam or Indonesia, I would probably say Indonesia, only if I'm right in saying that Indonesia will offer me more diverse experiences than Vietnam will since Thailand shares more similar aspects of Vietnamese culture than Indonesian culture. Otherwise, vice versa.

I think those were all of the points you raised, and thanks for taking your time out to help me out.

glennaa11

Personally I enjoyed the parts of Indonesia I visited better than the parts of Vietnam I have been to.

I loved Yogyakarta. But I am more of a history/temple/photo ops kind of traveler. I did some interesting walks through terraced rice padi near Yogya as well as in Bali. I did the Jeep tour to Mt. Merapi which was torture for me, but might be up your alley. There are volcanoes in Java and Bali that you can hike around. I did a trip report a couple of months ago. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...nh-f-tg-c.html

jiejie

Alright, that extra info helps. First thing is to think positive, that being young, you will make it back to SE Asia and very probably before too many more years go by, to pick up something else. I am of the same mind as @glennaa—I prefer Indonesia over Vietnam. But here’s one suggestion for incorporating most of what you want. I think it is far from ideal, rushed and of necessity substitutes some highlights instead of depth. Chiang Mai/North Thailand gets the heave-ho in this plan. And given your time frame, you will need to do some flying, though I’ve tried to suggest something that keeps the cost down and allows you to take advantage of low cost carriers like Jetstar and Tiger Air and do a budget closer to the backpacker end than the luxury end, but that's up to you and your finances.

August 6-9 Bangkok. A city that everybody ends up passing through again and again, so hit the highlights and leave something for next time in SE Asia.
Aug 10 Overland to Siem Reap. With a group of you, you’ve got economies of scale. Start early, get there by mid-afternoon, explore town in evening.
Aug 11-13 Temples and maybe a look at a village on Lake Tonle Sap nearby.
Aug 14-15 Phnom Penh. With a group, share-car morning of the 14th. Can also take a bus. For 1.5 days, PP is worth a look around and a stopping point on way to Vietnam.
Aug 16 Morning bus PP to HCMC. Everybody needs to have their Vietnamese visa already in their passports, get at home before departing on the trip.
Aug 17-18 HCMC
Aug 19 Morning flight HCMC-Danang. By road to Hoi An. You can hit the beach there as well as the historic town and catch your breath.
Aug 20-24 Do your research and allocate time in the Hoi An – Danang – Hue – DMZ corridor. If you’re bound and determined to do some motorcycle touring, this is probably the best place. From either Hue or Danang, take an overnight train on the 24th to Hanoi.
Aug 25-28 Hanoi 2 days + 2 days/1 night for Halong Bay round trip out of Hanoi. If you are not interested in Halong Bay, cut 1-2 days and fly on to Indonesia on 27 or 28th.
Aug 29 Fly HAN – SUB (Surabaya). Will have to connect, most likely in SIN or maybe KUL.
Aug 30 – Sept 1 Overland to Mt. Bromo/volcano trek, then onward to Bali ferry.
Sept 2 – 7 Bali. Fly out to Australia from there.

Obviously, deferring Vietnam will allow you to spend a lot more time in Indonesia, incorporating places like Yogyakarta, and other islands like Lombok or Sulawesi. Even if you want some Vietnam, at least consider truncating the north (after Danang/Hue area) and put those extra 4 days to fly Vietnam via SIN/KUL to Yogya for 3 days, then overland to Bromo area then overland/ferry to Bali. Then on a future trip you can deal with northern Vietnam, northern Laos, and northern Thailand together.

maverick17

I'd skip PP. In fact, if you're not gonna be back for 5 years potentially, I'd skip Chiang Mai and PP and SGN, and add some time in Myanmar before it keeps getting bigger and touristy (if the RGN fares didn't spoil it already - TIC). That would take more flying though.

If you're motorbiking in Vietnam, there are a lot of discussions of it in the lonely planet forum. Many start it out with plans to do as you said, Hanoi to Saigon, but rarely make it that far. It is much longer and more arduous than many realize. But many do as JieJie mentions, doing a small portion of it.

Hyakku

This is awesome, thanks so much. I would definitely consider myself a history/temple/photo ops type of person as well, maybe "outdoors" is the wrong word to use if I implied something differently. I guess I'm just not much of an "urban" tourist moreso than anything. I appreciate your trip report, and that Jeep tour is exactly the type of thing some of my friends and I would love, so we've just banked that as a potential attraction for us.

This is so phenomenal, I can't tell you how much we appreciate you taking the time out to do this. I just showed this to one of my closest friends coming with me and it's helped us in thinking about this trip so much. Because this particular friend is the one leaving on the 30th, I'd be interested in hearing your alternative where we defer Vietnam, and spend more time in Indonesia. I get the sense after talking to you all and people who know us that Indonesia may really end up being a major highlight for us given our personalities and the activities that you all describe.

Given what you said, I'd imagine that that itinerary might be essentially the same with truncated time in Vietnam and substituting the overland travel for flying. Alternatively I'm wondering if you think maybe deferring/excluding Cambodia wouldn't be better, and instead we go North to Chiang Mai and fly to Hanoi/HCMC and travel to danang, cutting out either Hanoi or the HCMC leg (whichever place we fly to from there). I'm personally more partial to your suggestion as I suspect the weather in Northern Thailand is going to be worse that time of the year, but I'm still learning the geography.

I really, really appreciate the time you've taken, and if you don't have the time to respond to this, you've already been more than helpful mate. And I'll definitely continue to think positive. I just know that even when I do have the extra funds and whatnot, I'm probably going to be spending some of them to send my parents to different places in the world, as they always wanted me to experience those things growing up and I'd like for them to get a chance to experience the world too.

You're actually the second person that's suggested Myanmar as well, and I'm intrigued by the suggestion. At the same time, given everyone's concerns about cramming, I feel like this would require even more cramming on our part, but I'm always open to amendments.

As always, thank you to everyone spending the time to give all of this professional grade advice.

jiejie

Myanmar is a wonderful country but your plate is full enough. IMO, it's the sort of place you need to devote 2-3 weeks in for a first trip to make it worth the effort and do more than just skim the surface. Infrastructure is still fairly poor and in rainy season, subject to more disruption than usual. Flexibility is needed, especially if on a lower end budget. If you decide you want to include it, then substitute for Vietnam. You don't have time to do both. And Myanmar is a different sort of mindset....I'm not getting the impression that it's the best match for you at this time, based on reading between the lines of your posts.

Rather than get your mind in a mess by listening to a cacophony of voices contributing almost too many ideas, go back to your friends and give a rethink. There must have been some reasons that Siem Reap, Vietnam, and Indonesia resonated with all of you. If those reasons are still valid, then stick to your guns and just adjust the balance between them. It's always OK to save something for next time.

While I'm not going to to a daily plan similar to my above post for a heavily Indonesia itinerary, I would suggest that after Bali and Bromo, the next priority would be Yogyakarta (also on Java Island). After that, look into Sulawesi (especially Tana Toraja/Rantepao area, Manado if you are divers), Lombok, Flores/Komodo/Rinca. Because of the need to take plane or boat between islands, Indonesia logistics requires a bit more planning to make sure the timings work out.....and also flexibility.

Siem Reap/Angkor is the one place I would try very hard to keep in the itinerary. And a very nice sentiment to be thinking of financially helping your parents to fulfill some of their travel dreams in the future.

5khours

I think you can do Myanmar as day trip.

maverick17

If I skip Myanmar it wouldn't be because just a few days is a waste. I'm sure we'd all love to spend 6 months in every country we visit to be able to understand it better and see more. But reality is many of us travel places and only get to see a little. As unfortunate as that may be.

jiejie

That's your prerogative to spend as little or as much time per place as you feel is worth the effort and cash; we can all agree that everybody has different travel styles. But everybody also is subject to the laws of physics and time, and at some point when the balance of time spent on transport between places bulges out of proportion to the actual "meat" of what one came to see and do, that the plan needs a rethink/challenge. This OP doesn't yet have first-hand experience in SE Asia about minimum times to spend at each location, how long it takes to get between places, which connections are predictable and which need some flex time built in for inevitable snafus. Based on what the OP wrote about himself and his travel buddies, Myanmar did not come to the forefront of places that I would consider the best match for this particular trip's goals/aspirations.

Hyakku

Thanks to everyone again who helped out. I've been talking to friends and we essentially used jieJie'a initial itinerary and cut down after deciding to focus our travels. We're looking at something like the following:

Aug 3-6 Tokyo with friends, flight into Bangkok night of 6
Aug 7-10 - Bangkok, flight to Siem Reap
Aug 10-12 Siem Reap, flight to Da Nang
Aug 12-15/6 Da Nang+Hoi An?, flight to Hanoi/Saigon (only going to one, not sure which would be better this time of year)
Aug 15/6 - 20 Hanoi/Saigon, flight to Indonesia (Java or Bali?)
Aug 21 - 30 Indonesia? Not sure of where to go from here. My friend is leaving from CGK the 29th so as long as he can fly there the 28th im open to pretty much anywhere great. Thinking about some of the above suggestions.
Sept 4 - 14 Australia? Willing to spend less time there as well for more time in SE Asia if the whim strikes

I'm willing to spend more time in certain places if people think that's best, but we thought making the trip more manageable would be wise and this type of schedule seems to give a nice mix of everything. We decided flying would be better to save time as well, although im also open to changing.

Edit: sorry for the brevity as well, typed this from my phone.

jiejie

I think your general plan is fine. You'll get a lot of contrast and variety between these areas. As for Hanoi vs Saigon, I think weather-wise it's 6-1/2 dozen to the other. I'd go by what interests you most. I personally find Hanoi more fascinating than Saigon, but many people prefer the south. This battle has been waged on the forum for years, with no clear winner in sight.

Given your friend's need to depart from CGK, it probably makes the most sense to fly into Bali for a few days, then fly to Yogyakarta and finally back to CGK. To fill your own solo few days before going to Australia, consider flying domestic CGK to Makassar on Sulawesi then overland up to Rantepao, Tana Toraja country. Same thing in reverse to CGK. Fits an Aug 28/29 - Sept 3 time slot pretty perfectly.