jpatokal

In a word, no. It's surprisingly far from the rest of SE Asia (nearly 4 hours to Singapore!), hygiene and personal safety is seriously dodgy, and the food can't hold a candle to Malaysia or Thailand. About the only advantage is that English is spoken well.

bsaced

+1 for Hong Kong

jpatokal

It's better in all three respects, but not necessarily by all that much. Having lived around a year in each, I've eaten plenty of street food in both and never gotten sick, and there are places in both that I wouldn't venture to at night. KUL does have an edge infrastructurewise, although BKK is catching up pretty fast with the airport rail link, recent Skytrain extensions and whatnot.

Also, I'm not sure I entirely agree with people saying Bangkok (/Thailand) is culturally more interesting than KL (/Malaysia). BKK has more big-ticket must-see attractions, to be sure, and more than its fair share of interesting little minority bubbles (Chinatown, Soi Arab, Little India/Pahurat, etc), but it's still fundamentally a Thai monoculture. KUL, on the other hand, is shared by Malays, Chinese and Indians, and thus has sights, food and culture for each three in abundance.

moondog

+1 on the "personal safety" comment.

Akiestar

I don't know if it has anything to do with me being Filipino or anything, but I find MNL in general (in general because I know places like Tondo, Payatas, et al. are not safe) to be pretty safe. And that also considers how the security establishment takes security a little too seriously back home (i.e. additional security checks at NAIA, photography bans which have only been lifted recently, etc.).

jiejie

It has everything to do with you being Filipino. It clouds your judgment. Though your feelings are loving and loyal, Manila or anywhere else in the Philippines does NOT fit the criteria and description of what this OP is looking for at this time. This is no way implies that all of the people, all of the time, should avoid the Philippines. It just means that the "match" isn't there in this situation.

Akiestar

I have lived outside the Philippines for a significant amount of time and I certainly know Manila is not up to par with cities like Kuala Lumpur or Singapore (Bangkok and Jakarta, based on what I've been hearing, are debatable, and so is Ho Chi Minh City). Heck, I currently live in WAW, and I know WAW is better than MNL in perhaps every metric possible, so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that my nationality clouds my judgement.

But if I were to interpret the OP's metrics properly, he said he wants a base that is "safe, clean and culturally interesting". Unfortunately, no city, major or minor, in Southeast Asia fits all three metrics perfectly, though I will agree that SIN comes the closest to this regard. That is despite a professor of mine once telling my class that lightning striking the control tower at Changi was front-page news in Singapore, and having lived there for six months he claimed it to be very boring albeit very amusing as well.

I'm merely throwing a suggestion here: just because we're on the other side of the South China Sea, it doesn't mean that people should think that Southeast Asia is merely Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia, and probably Vietnam too for good measure.

dsquared37

MNL, CGK and SGN don't hold a candle to BKK. Sorry.

yosithezet

Your nationality clouds your judgement because although you've spent so many years outside of the Philippines you speak the language, blend in and have a better ability to understand the unspoken nuances of behaviour than someone who has never spent time in the Philippines. This influences your sense of personal safety and ability to determine what is acceptable from a hygiene perspective and generally navigate the city/country. You have a better idea of what is going on around you.

I lived in Israel for many years. I speak Hebrew. My sense of personal security and my ability to navigate society is very different than a first time visitor. I have spent a great deal of time in India and Thailand over the past number of years. There are points where the lack of ability to speak the local languages can be an issue, but generally my ability to navigate and assess my surroundings is much better than someone who is on their first or second short trip.

A number of years ago I went on a business trip to Holland. It was the first time I was in a country where I could read the latin characters but had no idea what they said. I had to make my way from Schipol to a place called 's-Hertogenbosch by train. Generally Holland is a fairly safe place. I blend in. But the lack of language and inability to understand what I was reading gave me an uneasy feeling that I needed to ask much more often whether I was heading to the right place. When I finally arrived at 's-Hertogenbosch I found out that while I was trying to pronounce 's-Hertogenbosch the Dutch call the place "Den Bosch". So you can imagine a Dutch person that hadn't lived in Holland for many years would still have a much more comfortable experience than I had. The way you experience the Philippines is very different to the way a couple with young children who have never spent time there will experience it. They may have trouble getting their head around the signs that say "Please check your firearms before entering". Maybe they should avoid Texas as well.

moondog

It's been a while (9 years), but here are my salient points:

-all prominent buildings in Makati had armed guards
-my right hand man carried a hand gun at all times, and the back of his SUV was always packed with ammunition
-he is no longer "around"
-a high school classmate of mine was held hostage in the Phils for a year, and nearly had his head lopped off
-rebels took over my apartment in Makati the same evening my best friend arrived there
-the same best friend narrowly escaped being kidnapped, 2 years prior

Please don't quote this post in your replies to this thread; I will delete it 7 days from now.

TrueBlueFlyer

moondog, on my first visit to Manila I had a similar awareness of the surroundings perhaps being pre-conditioned to the activities from what I saw on TV beforehand.... the armed guards, even at churches was an unavoidable site, you can't miss it.

I stayed in Malate and even the taxi driver taking me there from the airport asked me if I'm "sure" I wanted to get out there in the evening, within seconds of getting out of the cab I had a guy walk up to me offering girls for the night.

Makati was different in the sense that it was more modern and clean.

TrueBlueFlyer

I think if one were turned off by some aspects of KUL or BKK, Penang or Phuket would be decent alternatives. Both places are well connected with a number of international flights, as well as domestic flights for thru-connections to other international destinations. Both Penang and Phuket have much to offer, and because they are popular tourist destination its a fairly competitive market so flights would be cheap, at least on par with KUL and BKK.

illinidad

I lived and worked in Indonesia many years ago, got married and started a family there. We've visited fairly often over the years (twice in the last few years) and remain in touch with friends and family in Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia. This is about the best advice I've seen so far (it's post #28). What Russ says is right on - though my personal preference would be SIN Excellent point about crossing over to JB to take flights over to eastern Malaysia.

One additional point that I'd add, which I'm surprised has been slightly less prominent so far than I thought it would since children are involved, is health care. With two children of my own, SIN wins hands-down. I know there are good hospitals in all of the major cities, but I don't think SIN can be beat when you consider the number of hospitals, ease of access (anyone want to be in an ambulance fighting CGK traffic to get to an ER? Didn't think so.) the depth and breadth of specialties and - relative to the US, since that's where it looks like the OP is based - reasonable cost.

I'll keep reading the rest of the thread.....

illinidad

Could not agree more....

illinidad

First, hope this is a fantastic experience for your family, especially the children. What great memories this will make.

I really enjoyed (most of) the various perspectives in this thread.

Geographically, HKG or TYO just don't cut it as a base for SEAsia. Makes no sense to me, even if you've got millions of miles to spend on F tickets. You'd just spend too much time in the air. Absolutely worth a visit though if it fits your budget and schedule.

Interesting to see that MNL got a few mentions. Geographically, it's also probably a bit far away to use as a base. And the safety issues? Definitely a black mark.

CGK would be an enormous hassle; just too big a mess of a city to be a base. I remember when I was there I could only realistically schedule two business meetings a day because of traffic. And it's only gotten worse since then. It's also a business city. There are some tourist sites, but the better ones are outside the city if memory serves. If you go though, I would suggest the Aryaduta hotel there. It's in the business district and has a very distinctive Indonesian style. Good base for visiting the city. Of course, the Marriott there is another good choice.

DPS is a very intruiging suggestion. It does seem to meet the OP criteria. Flights would be slightly longer to most places, but you'd also have good access to Java, Kalimantan and Sulawesi (although maybe through CGK or SUB), as well as other islands in the archipelago. You could definitely find affordable rents I'm sure. There's plenty of entertainment, shopping and dining available (which for some reason reminds me that many Javanese often do not care for Balinese food, at least those that I know don't. They say it isn't as flavorful or spicy). And you could save the airfare you might othewise spend getting to DPS for one of your side trips and put it towards a week/long weekend in Nusa Dua or at one of the very upscale hotels (Bulgari, or one of the Aman family of resorts come to mind). On the negative side, traffic jams at peak hours are very bad (this is based on a trip in the last 12 months or so). No fun.

KUL doesn't seem like a bad choice. I don't know it nearly as well as SIN, but I agree with the positive comments about the flavorful food, it has many modern conveniences you're going to want at your base, and it's pretty safe. Plus it is pretty cheap.

The other thing that I noted as I read through the thread is that no one has mentioned possible culture shock issues. I know you didn't mention it, and its likely you have far more awareness than most Americans, but this is something to think about since your base will be 'home'.

Having been an expat, the newness and wonder of being immersed in a new and totally different culture (Indonesia) fairly quickly gave way to everyday hassles of living. Things that I took for granted at home, like communication with colleagues at work, shopping for groceries/clothing/etc, ordering food in a restaurant, just taking a taxi, etc. etc. can be very, very difficult. Fortunately, the national language uses Roman letters, so at least I could read signs and hazard a guess at pronunciation, possibly meaning. But Thai? Forget it.

It's amusing, even entertaining at first. But, it can become highly frustrating over time. I mean, you'd better know your kiri from your kanan when giving the cab driver directions, lest you wind up completely lost. That can be quite maddening, especially at 8pm when all you want to do is get home and get the kids in bed.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a fantastic thing to do. But, these culture considerations are another big reason aside from health care why I suggest SIN as your base (assuming you can swing the cost). For me, it was a safe, secure haven - a refreshing and relatively familiar place to regroup before taking the plunge and going back to Indonesia. It might work the same way for your family before you take each plunge into yet another new and fascinating culture.

All the best to you. Let us know what you decide. And post if you can during your trip.