from Dec 19th, 2009 to Jan 10th, 2010 (three weeks), I'm off work, so I can travel around Southeast Asia. I would like to take the opportunity to go from Bangkok, where I live, to New Delhi to visit frieds over land one way and fly the other way.
I would also like to see Bangladesh on my way (preferably Dhaka) and Bhutan, if that is possible on my way. This is what I've got so far:
Bangkok-Nong Khai (by train)
Nong Khai-Vientiane (by train)
Vientiane-Luang Prabang (by bus)
... (some way over China and Bhutan?)
Is it in any way possible to include Burma and Bhutan without extra flights? Has anyone ever travelled into and through these countries over land?
How can I get to India from Laos the easiest way, again without plane? How good is the train or bus way through China? Can I travel through Tibet without filling thousands of forms?
I'd really like to get answers from those who have already traveled some of these ways. But anyway, all suggestions are welcome.
- You can enter Myanmar from a few points in Thailand, but you cannot legally cross over from the border to Yangon. (A few daredevils have apparently pulled this off though.)
- You cannot enter Myanmar from Laos, and neither are there any flights from Laos to India.
- No flights from China's border regions to India either.
- You can cross from Bangladesh to India, but you cannot reach the Myanmar/Bangladesh border (heavy insurgent activity and active Rohingya repression).
- To India, there's only one border crossing from China (Nathula), and it's not open to foreigners.
- There are several land crossings between Bhutan and India, but none from China to Bhutan.
The only sensible way to do this is to travel around South-East Asia, fly to BKK once done, and connect to an India-bound flight from there.
Bhutan you'll need to have arrangement already made, cost $200 per day. You can't just show up and travel independently. Foreigners fly in and out.
Tibet you also need to have prearrangements made and a Tibet travel permit, preferably all done within China. Overland from China proper to Tibet to Nepal possible. This will be very expensive and takes up time you don't really have. Overland from China to India not possible.
Very few flights China to India and all are expensive--from Beijing, Shanghai, or Hong Kong.
Burma all along its western border is closed to foreigners and access thru the eastern border has lots of limitations. In practical terms, fly in.
Really, you would be best off doing a separate short round-trip from Bangkok to Laos if you want to see that. Then fly Bangkok-(Dhaka)-India and back. Doesn't sound like you have time to do Bhutan also but if that's a priority, you can fly there from Bangkok and then from Bhutan to India--check winter weather conditions though. Forget about China/Tibet on this trip--the kind of overland journey you're talking with China + India you'd need a couple of months not just 3 weeks.
I will take my time and list an exact travel schedule including the bus, train and possibly ferry times, and see if it is theoretically possible to reach New Delhi within 3 weeks.
Maybe I will come back and post some of my plans, if I find them worth sharing. However, if it is absolutely impossible to travel as I intend to do, I will look for another route or will have to fly to some of the countries.
Again, thank you for your thoughts. I consider some of the restrictions quite ridiculous, because it prevents many potential visitors and interested travellers from getting to know the people of a country. But we can't change things. :-(
Again, thank you for your thoughts. I consider some of the restrictions quite ridiculous, because it prevents many potential visitors and interested travellers from getting to know the people of a country.
Nothing ridiculous about them: especially in the case of Myanmar, those restrictions are in place in order to prevent potential visitors and interesting travellers for seeing what's going on
jiejie, it is possible for foreigners to cross into Bhutan by land, it's just that travellers doing so still need the advance visas, $200/day tours etc.
Nothing ridiculous about them: especially in the case of Myanmar, those restrictions are in place in order to prevent potential visitors and interesting travellers for seeing what's going on
Indeed. It's worth mentioning that as with many things in Myanmar "exceptions" can be made. I met someone who hired a fixer to travel overland across the closed China/Myanmar border. They were recommended the fixer by the Myanmar consulate.
Don't neglect the visa processing time for Myanmar - I was quoted 2 weeks in Kolkatta (why I didn't visit). I've heard Kathmandu can do it in a couple days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpatokal
jiejie, it is possible for foreigners to cross into Bhutan by land, it's just that travellers doing so still need the advance visas, $200/day tours etc.
There seems to be variable answers on this. I believe at one point Bhutan was trying to force visitors into flying in and out, then just in or out, now it seems like you can do without either. Additionally I've heard with the recent economic crisis it's been possible to tour for less - $125-$150/person.
The China-Myanmar border at Ruili has been open to foreigners for quite a number of years, inbound into Myanmar, you just had to have some prearrangements made for pickup on the Myanmar site and accompaniment down to Lashio. And of course, already have a visa. This can be done in 1-3 days in Kunming. Going outbound to China is feasible but requires special permission, which can be done if you throw enough cash and have a few weeks' time to get. Most people don't bother when there are more cost-effective ways to exit Myanmar.
But all of this is really beside the point. I guess I'm not really sure what the OP is trying to accomplish--is he trying to maximize country experiences, or transport experiences, or avoid flying because he's scared, or save money or what? Yes, theoretically you can get from Bangkok to New Delhi without taking a flight, as in ROUGHLY (please don't quibble about exact hours, it doesn't matter--the point is to show order of magnitude of gap between OP's original idea and reality):
BKK-Vientiane by train: 1 day
Vientiane-Luang Prabang by bus: 1 day
LP to Kunming by bus: 1-2 days
Kunming to Chengdu by train: 1 day
Chengdu awaiting Tibet travel arrangements (or less if you prearranged in advance and just need to pick up the paperwork/tickets): 4 days
Chengdu to Lhasa by train: 2 days
Lhasa to Kathmandu by private vehicle (public bus not permitted for foreigners on Tibet side): usually people take a few days to do this with stops along way, so let's say 5 days
Kathmandu-Delhi by bus + train: 3 days.
Add it up, and just for travelling you've got 15 days plus any staging time in Chengdu, excluding staying anywhere else for rest, sightseeing, or just making the actual schedule links work. This is the only feasible route BKK-DEL not requiring a flight, and you can see why people with only 3 weeks don't even consider doing it. And I don't even have Bangladesh, Burma or Bhutan in there. Again, I suggest for this trip, pick your priorities and fly between countries, your original idea just doesn't work.
The China-Myanmar border at Ruili has been open to foreigners for quite a number of years, inbound into Myanmar, you just had to have some prearrangements made for pickup on the Myanmar site and accompaniment down to Lashio. And of course, already have a visa. This can be done in 1-3 days in Kunming.
I was told in September in Kunming it was closed, both at the consulate, and from various tour operators. YMMV
I was told in September in Kunming it was closed, both at the consulate, and from various tour operators. YMMV
Yes, but the situation then was a bit of an aberration. At that time there was a military offensive between the Burmese govt and ethnic Chinese-minority mix who primarily produce and deal drugs. This was in the Kokang district which borders China, with piles of refugees fleeing into China to escape--this all made international news. Kokang is fairly close to Ruili-Muse border and main roadway as the crow flies, though due to terrain is isolated and so never really a threat. Kokang has not been open to foreigners in a very long time and the locals wouldn't consider sightseers funny in the slightest. But, the whole area got a bit sensitive and the Burmese decided that having passing foreign travellers anywhere in the region was not something they wanted to deal with. It should reopen to inbound at some point, if not already. And I'm sure Chinese and Burmese are going in and out as usual--that's the main highway for trucked goods going back and forth.
Location: Somewhere near DCA. NW Platinum. AA Platinum.
Posts: 11,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpatokal
AFAIK this route is in practice not possible.
- You can enter Myanmar from a few points in Thailand, but you cannot legally cross over from the border to Yangon. (A few daredevils have apparently pulled this off though.)
- You cannot enter Myanmar from Laos, and neither are there any flights from Laos to India.
- No flights from China's border regions to India either.
- You can cross from Bangladesh to India, but you cannot reach the Myanmar/Bangladesh border (heavy insurgent activity and active Rohingya repression).
- To India, there's only one border crossing from China (Nathula), and it's not open to foreigners.
- There are several land crossings between Bhutan and India, but none from China to Bhutan.
The only sensible way to do this is to travel around South-East Asia, fly to BKK once done, and connect to an India-bound flight from there.
There is a border crossing between India (Manipur) and Burma, but you cannot reliably use it to travel across Burma .
You need permits from Burma, as well as India to be in border areas. I am not aware of any land crossings that allows one to travel across Burma. In other words, you can only visit towns close to the border and must exit Burma at the same crossing where you entered. You are allowed to be in Burma only for a day or two when you enter Burma at a land crossing.
Note: Burma used to be a province of British India until the late 1930's, so, I am sure there are many places where you can slip into Burma, but if you try travelling away from the border, you are likley to be caught.
One can travel by land between India and China (Tibet) via Nepal. The Nathu LA border between India (Sikkim) and China is open to limited traffic for trade. I don;t think there is a ny passenger traffic across the border. There have been some talk about opening the border to passenger traffic and introducing a bus service between Lhasa and Gangtok in the future.
__________________
Those who sacrifice liberty of some to purchase a little temporary safety, will have neither liberty nor safety.
