Eastbay1K

Back to the steak ... as I was taking a long walk today and coincidentally passed by Cabañas Las Lilas, I peeked at the menu in the window. The steak-type items were in the $650-$700 range.

Flying Machine

As you had stated back to the steak. Where are you eating your beef these days. Curious minds want to know..

Eastbay1K

I'm not eating much of it. Last trip, none. January, Le Grill, and probably for the past couple of years, any better meat meal has been at Le Grill. I've likely had a piece of meat in a parrilla del barrio about once a year.

iahphx

Yeah, I think the only real value in Argentine dining is in the wine. Otherwise, it's not really cheaper than in the USA.

I was just in Chile this past week and it seemed about the same there. Given the general standard of living, these currencies seem overvalued to the dollar. I don't really understand how the locals can afford to eat at the decent restaurants, as they seem kind of expensive to me as an American. I'm not certain how price-sensitive the typical US traveler is, but it's a bit surprising to me that it's much cheaper to eat in Eastern Europe (for example) than Argentina or Chile.

Flying Machine

I find that Chile is far more costly than Argentina to Dine for U$D Currency Holders. However, in BsAs there is still excellent QPR for meat eaters..

HIDDY

I know what you mean...even eating out here in the sticks can be a costly affair if you want to eat a steak. Despite being able to afford it, eating out is not something we do anyway as I prefer to cook my own in the more relaxed surroundings of home....plus there aren't that many decent restaurants here anyway.
I think the big difference between here and the UK is the lack of chain type steak restaurants here. In the UK anyone can afford to eat out once in a while due to the purchasing power these large chains have thus making it affordable to all. A town my size in the UK would have at least one chain type steak restaurant in it as well as many other dining choices.
I think above all, it's the lack of competition here which is holding this country back. The retail trade for instance does seem to be too well protected hence why prices are high.

Eastbay1K

And what is the "general standard of living" in Chile? Do you have local friends? Been in local homes?

Lest we forget that food in the USA is a lot cheaper as a % of income than much of the world. And lest we forget that locals can't afford to eat at the decent restaurants in the USA, either. While my eyes may not bug out when a fairly simple dinner for 2 ends up at $100 including some wine or a couple of drinks, for every person that thinks this, there are 75 or more in a fast food drive thru line ordering "value meals.'

Many chilenos are not eating at places you are eating when you're on vacation, and many others are eating out on easy credit, just like back in the USA.

As far as Argentina goes, notice the number of places that have closed. Inflation has also hit the tourist diner, as currency normalization has taken place. The AR$ appears currently overvalued, but rejoining the world currency markets creates a shock, but not as bad as the one caused by leaving them (which created temporary extreme value for the tourist).

HIDDY

Very good point. ^

Things were never going to be easy after the mess Kirchner left. Macri's brought some hope for the future but my fear is it'll all go tits up again in a couple of years.

Eastbay1K

On the last night of this trip, I wanted a piece of beef. It has been mostly lighter dining, home cooking, etc. Le Grill is closed on Sundays, as are quite a few smaller places in the barrio, not that I'd be keen to go. Walking by La Brigada at about 930pm, why not. It has been years. Hugo seemed in good spirits. Why not? I thought I'd not likely return. But didn't someone here recently enjoy the beef? Whatever the cost would be, it is the only meal that would be costing more than $10 on this trip. They were open, and it was far enough away from all the Boca Jr. hinchas that stared a riot up near the stadium before marching down to San Telmo, blocking streets, and so on.

This meal was shocking for three reasons:

(1) The waitstaff was very nice. Not overly friendly, but very nice, and did their job well. I must not have looked like someone who needed to see meat cut with a spoon.

(2) My portion of lomo was very good. Cooked just as ordered, and deliciously tender and tasty. I don't remember the exact cost, but I believe it was about $320. (Almost exactly US$20 today)

(3) The wine pricing was so outrageous I was tempted not to order anything. But this was the "big spend" of this otherwise very inexpensive trip. These were US Hotel-type markups. I ended up not going too fancy and paid what I would for a modest red wine at a restaurant in the USA.

As for the rest of the meal, the salad was uninspired and I don't recall what it cost, but it wasn't worth it. Well, I do suppose it was worth the lack of calories from not ordering potatoes or other similar "vegetables." No other items ordered, no dessert, etc.

So, I got a piece of tasty meat. I had some red wine. I thought the service was decent. I didn't go bankrupt.

And so it was good.

Amen

abeyro

My observations on wine prices which basically suport your thesis.
Carefourexpress market, cheap wine:
a) my one before the last visit:
USD/ARS - 15.20, wine 22 ARS
b) my last visit
USD/ARS - 16.00, wine 35 ARS

So the peso lost only 5% against the dolar while the wine prices soared by 50%.

I wonder how it will be when I come to BA November this years


PS. Later I'll go to Rio where the wine scene is the most crazy for a country in such a climate zone, anywhere in the world.
I drink only cachaca and mojito in Brazil ;-(

Eastbay1K

I moderate this comment - I saw one of the "old familiar" wines in the market the next day, and the retail price had gone up so much since I last noticed (probably over a year ago) that the restaurant markup was no longer "outrageous," but rather "regular tourist markup."

flyme2

Beef:
My first exposure to Argentine beef was in Rio back in the late 90's when my wife and I rented an apartment on Avenida Atlântica with breathtaking views of Copacabana. The apartment was kitted out with a gourmet kitchen, so we decided to do our own cooking to capitalize on both the view and stellar equipment. At that time, Argentine tenderloin was quite common and affordable, so we feasted on filet mignon for most of our stay. It was stupendous. Fast forward a couple of years, and we migrated to BsAs, spending 11 winters there to escape the ravages of the eastern Canadian winter. Cooking was a hobby of mine, and beef made a regular appearance on our menu at least three times week. We entertained frequently, and everyone loved the chorizo, and my wife and I particularly enjoyed the Ojo de Bife. Those were heady days, and the beef was extraordinary. As the economy progressed, and traditional techniques and methods fell by the wayside, replaced by more efficient and cost effective production, quality suffered. Gradually, the physical size of the steaks, that had always been smaller than what was available in North America, grew to mimic ours - a sure sign of feed lot utilization. The grass fed beef had always been lean, yet tender, not requiring the same amount of marbling that NA beef did to make it tender. The feed lot beef was now the same as what was available in NA, no difference whatsoever. Visible marbling was necessary to ensure an acceptable degree of tenderness. A tip to those who purchase steaks from packages at Jumbo, Coto, Carrefour, etc. Poke the package with your index finger. If the depression springs back, leave the package where it lies. If the depression stays, you have a better chance of getting a tender piece of steak.

Lamb:
Cordero was always a difficult meat to get. Whole frozen spring lamb was seasonally available, but the packaging methods left a lot to be desired and freezer burn and dryness compromised the quality of the original product. Better to buy a leg of lamb, commonly vacuum packed, whose pedigree originated in Patagonia.

Pork:
Pork was always reliable, and reasonable stable in price. This is basically the case all over the world. Boneless pork loins were often cheaper than ribs, and were more versatile and quicker to prepare.

Poultry:
Chicken was inexpensive, and as Alejandro has mentioned, of superior quality if grain fed. Look for yellow hued skin and not overly wet, iced or pale birds. I always found common poultry in Argentina more flavourful than back home. Pavo, or turkey, is less common, and usually frozen. My wife and I didn't bother with it while living in BsAs.

Fish:
Merluza, a type of hake, is the most common and popular fish. It's alright, but truthfully, apart from one year, when excellent Chilean frozen salmon fillets were being dumped in Argentina, my wife and I were not overly excited by the selection and/or quality. Odd, that here in Canada, wild Argentinian shrimps are quite common. In our 11 years in BsAs, we never spotted any shrimps originating anywhere but Chile, and those that were available were usually small and often mealy. I recall a dinner party where we made shrimp cocktails as an appetizer. We spent days looking for decent sized shrimp and were only moderately successful, having to be satisfied with a 25/30 count. Making our own shrimp cocktail sauce was a whole different story, but we did find most of the requisite ingredients in the barrio Chino. Surprisingly, our Porteño guests were quite impressed with the rather pedestrian results.

In 2012, as a result of health and practical concerns, we bid farewell to Argentina, and decided to spend our winters in Mexico, much closer to home. We missed the friends and acquaintances we made over the span of our Argentinian years, and we most likely would have returned once Christina was out of office, were it not for the sudden death of my wife. I am still in touch with some of them, so perhaps I will have a chance to revisit the availability of quality beef, among other things.

StartinSanDiego

Thanks for the terrific synopsis of the Argentinian meat.

Very sorry for the loss of your wife. It sounds like the two of you lived an amazing life.

saint

I just got back from a 5 week trip to Argentina (most of that time spent in Buenos Aires) I agree with the consensus here that the beef there keeps going downhill compared to the 'glory days'. I previously lived in Buenos Aires from 2003-2011 and they used to have really great steaks then for dirt cheap prices.

I still go back a few times a year for work and vacation and each time I go back the quality seems to go down while the prices seem to keep going up. I ate steak at several places this trip including Don Julio, La Cabrera, La Cabrera Norte, La Costilla, and a few other places.

Don't get me wrong. The steaks weren't bad but NO where near the quality and flavor compared to before. I typically find that I can get a much better tasting steak here locally at places like Ruth Chris' or other high end places. No not cheap here either at higher end places.

I also found the prices overall shockingly high in the supermarkets and other places. Inflation continues to be a big problem there. When I started the trip the exchange rate was 16.4 pesos to $1 US and in just 5 weeks when I left it was over 18 pesos to $1 US so that should cause prices to continue to go up. It's hard to imagine how locals getting by on local peso salaries get by.

It was also the first time in many many years of living and visiting there that I saw most of the supermarkets I go to fairly empty. Never before would I go to a Carrefour on a weekend and not have a line but it was fairly dead which in and of itself tells a story.

Gaucho100K

Comparing prices during periods of economic instability can lead to (very) false conclusions. Some visitors like to complain about how expensive Argentina is when compared to the 2001-2002 period.... but they either forget or fail to understand that pricing during that period was unreal.

Quality issues are a different topic... and sadly, as Ive said before in this thread and others, the average quality of Beef in Argentina has been in a steady decline over the past 10 years. The good news is that this decline has now stopped, and with the resurgence of the local Cattle Industry we will see a (slow) but steady recovery in quality. Pricing will remain firm and I think will continue to climb, but I think this is a good thing as Cattle Farmers need to be profitable to sustain supply and quality.

As for Chain Steakhouses.... well, Argentina doesnt have any of those.... and I thank the Lord for that.