Midwest Airlines Midwest Miles - Here come the 319's

The first five 319's are coming in November. They are just starting to show up online. Nothing especially unexpected at this point, although this is the time of year to upgrade capacity to the sun markets, which is exactly what they're doing at this point.

MKE-MCO
7:05am
4:35pm

MKE-TPA
3:10pm (there's still a 7:20am but not a 319)

MKE-RSW
7:00am (just 1x/day at this point)

MKE-LAX
7:00am

MKE-BOS
4:35pm

MKE-PHX
7:05am
2:00pm

MKE-LAS
7:10am
4:30pm

Milwaukee-Denver goes to 2x 319 and 1x E190 and 2x E170
6:00am E190
7:25am E170
3:10pm 319
4:10pm E170
6:57pm 319

The morning E190 is to rotate an E190 into Denver, where some Frontier flights will become E190 as expected.

knope was there an operated by next to the flight numbers????

never mind I see how they are listed now!!

They are operated by Frontier, which is confirmation of something we already knew since it's impossible that Midwest would so quickly get a new type onto their certificate for operation by their crews.

There are indications that when the 717's go the Midwest certificate will be surrendered, but even if that does not happen (nothing is confirmed and plans can change, after all) there's no way these Airbus would be on the YX certificate yet.

Big unknowns at this point, of course, include:

(a) Midwest paint?
(b) Any seat changes...either day one or in short order?
(c) Onboard service YX, F9 or other?
(d) IFE?

They are operated by Frontier, which is confirmation of something we already knew since it's impossible that Midwest would so quickly get a new type onto their certificate for operation by their crews.

There are indications that when the 717's go the Midwest certificate will be surrendered, but even if that does not happen (nothing is confirmed and plans can change, after all) there's no way these Airbus would be on the YX certificate yet.

Big unknowns at this point, of course, include:

(a) Midwest paint?
(b) Any seat changes...either day one or in short order?
(c) Onboard service YX, F9 or other?
(d) IFE?

I see DEN - SAN will be operated by a "another airline" and the aircraft will be an E190. So I wonder if it will be Midwest operated by Republic?

They are operated by Frontier, which is confirmation of something we already knew since it's impossible that Midwest would so quickly get a new type onto their certificate for operation by their crews.

There are indications that when the 717's go the Midwest certificate will be surrendered, but even if that does not happen (nothing is confirmed and plans can change, after all) there's no way these Airbus would be on the YX certificate yet.

Big unknowns at this point, of course, include:

(a) Midwest paint?
(b) Any seat changes...either day one or in short order?
(c) Onboard service YX, F9 or other?
(d) IFE?

One other question comes to mind...Will this be bookable through Midwest or Frontier? Or just Midwest.

If it's Frontier, and the FF partnership with FL is still in place, one could earn AirTran A+ credits on this flight (if booked through Frontier) and FL elite benefits would also be applicable. Interesting.

If there aren't going to be Signature seats available for the West Coast, they can refund my November/December flights and I will book with AirTran.

More pertinent than if they are going to put signature seats (I guarantee they will be standard Frontier planes, so go ahead and re-book RSVP) in the Frontier planes is when will these planes be used to introduce more cities from Milwaukee...Bring back the west coast!!! I'm happy with the direct flight out west with DirecTV to every seat on the plane.

I just got off the phone with Midwest after being on hold for 30 minutes. The 319 will have no signature seats.

I canceled my trip and booked with AirTran. The agent tried to convince me to take the 1 stop MCI flight, but I wasn't interested.

There is no reason to fly "Midwest" anymore.

This is about to get real interesting. Republic is in a hurry to get the 319 in theater so they can retire the 717, which will mean they don't have to deal with the unions at YX. It's this "one airline" clause that the teamsters and Republic are trying to use to force the issue. No certificate, no union, no jobs. Real nice. You people need to dig a little further as to what is going on behind the scenes here. All I can say is, Frontier flight attendants, you better hurry up and bring in AFA. Your payscales are about to be rocked as you will fall under the Republic contract. RSVP, I don't blame you for booking on Airtran. This new airline, the one that is suppose to look and act like YX, is not YX. And in a matter of time, the folks at Frontier will begin to see the light.

I have HAD it with Midwest, if there even is such an airline. I have LAS tickets for January and now I will probably get a refund and switch to AirTran.
"Best Care in the Air" what a joke!!

Oh, I forgot. No one cares about the couple of thousand people who lost their jobs in all of this. Just as long as the new YX adds service and keeps the fares as low as possible everyone is happy. Maybe, just maybe they will take away the baggage fees. I know how much everyone hates that.

Honestly, I have said all I am going to say about this situation. I was a 20 plus year employee that left a couple of years ago as I saw the situation had the potential for going badly. I really hoped that it wouldn't, but I thought it would. There were a lot of wonderful people that were the heart of Midwest and those people have been pushed to the side. The new employees will never know what it felt like to be apart of an airline that used to blow other carriers out of the water, with employees who went above and beyond on a daily basis. Good luck to all.

This is about to get real interesting. Republic is in a hurry to get the 319 in theater so they can retire the 717, which will mean they don't have to deal with the unions at YX.

Entirely predictable

You people need to dig a little further as to what is going on behind the scenes here. All I can say is, Frontier flight attendants, you better hurry up and bring in AFA. Your payscales are about to be rocked as you will fall under the Republic contract.

Again, sad, but entirely predictable


This new airline, the one that is suppose to look and act like YX, is not YX. And in a matter of time, the folks at Frontier will begin to see the light.

It's Delta Lite ; 'bout time folks woke up and smelled the coffee.

Checked some flights from MKE to Florida in March, nice to see the codeshare with Delta and Northwest showing; nice to see all the connections in ATL and DTW for you Milwaukee folks :D- bleed and feed!

It's Delta Lite ; 'bout time folks woke up and smelled the coffee.

How is it "Delta Lite" when you can earn AirTran credits on the Frontier codeshares?

Here's a post from the Cranky Flier blog about the Republic fleet integration in MKE and DEN:

http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/21/frontier-sends-a319s-to-milwaukee-republic-sends-embraers-to-denver/

I rather like the tail image depicted in the article.

Per the company memo posted over at airlines.net, the 319s will also be flying some yet to be announced new routes out of MKE. Also cookies will be served on board the F9 planes out of MKE.

Per the company memo posted over at airlines.net, the 319s will also be flying some yet to be announced new routes out of MKE. Also cookies will be served on board the F9 planes out of MKE.

Direct TV will be available on the A319s to Midwest customers as well. It remains to be seen if the E190s will have this feature, especially since some will be flying Frontier routes.

As for up-coming route announcements, I wouldn't fall over in shock if FLL is among the additions. It's the only Florida station not currently served by both Frontier and Midwest.

It looks like YX 606 is still listed as a 717, at least through my 1/9/2010 flight TPA-MKE. Is this going to change to 319 or E190, or stay as a 717? I know the 717s are supposed to be gone before 2010, but the reason I ask is that they did update the 7:30 pm flight to the 319, but not 11:40 am flight? Wouldn't they have done both at the same time if they were going to do it?

Thanks, and sorry if this is a dumb question.

It looks like YX 606 is still listed as a 717, at least through my 1/9/2010 flight TPA-MKE. Is this going to change to 319 or E190, or stay as a 717? I know the 717s are supposed to be gone before 2010, but the reason I ask is that they did update the 7:30 pm flight to the 319, but not 11:40 am flight? Wouldn't they have done both at the same time if they were going to do it?

Thanks, and sorry if this is a dumb question.

The dust is still settling and things are not set in stone. You will likely see a different aircraft because the 717s are supposed to be gone by the end of the year.

Alright...I havent been on this board that long, but this whole thing about how Midwest has fallen is getting a bit old...I have worked for a couple of organizations that are definitely not what they were, but do not hold the animosity that some on this board do...Look, it was Midwest leadership that was ill prepared for 9/11 and the rising oil prices of the last ~10 years...It was Midwest leadership that decided against going with AirTran and went with TPG/NWA instead...The same Midwest leadership that built this great organization that everyone talks about having fallen from where they knew it.

Now everyone can argue about the horrible things that TPG did to Midwest, but the reality is that it was probably necessary (no one knows for sure as it was a private company at that point), otherwise Midwest might not exist at all, as who knows whether that leadership team that built Midwest would have been able to make the tough decisions that TPG made.

As a consumer the service cuts were not welcome and am happy to see that someone has come along that is expanding service out of milwaukee...I like Midwest because of the ability to redeem Midwest Miles on NWA to anywhere in the world, which is not available on Airtran.

Sooo, while I feel the pain of employees who look at Midwest as a shell of what it once was (maybe even just a wrapper of what it once was)...The rest of us on this board probably have been in the same situation and have moved on to newer and better opportunities...We are looking at Midwest with hope that it brings more availability to the business travelers in Milwaukee.

How is it "Delta Lite" when you can earn AirTran credits on the Frontier codeshares?

Maybe it is not delta light but you can call it either a virtual airline or a paint job. I prefer to call it the paint job only airline.

Alright...I havent been on this board that long, but this whole thing about how Midwest has fallen is getting a bit old...I have worked for a couple of organizations that are definitely not what they were, but do not hold the animosity that some on this board do...Look, it was Midwest leadership that was ill prepared for 9/11 and the rising oil prices of the last ~10 years...It was Midwest leadership that decided against going with AirTran and went with TPG/NWA instead...The same Midwest leadership that built this great organization that everyone talks about having fallen from where they knew it.

Now everyone can argue about the horrible things that TPG did to Midwest, but the reality is that it was probably necessary (no one knows for sure as it was a private company at that point), otherwise Midwest might not exist at all, as who knows whether that leadership team that built Midwest would have been able to make the tough decisions that TPG made.

As a consumer the service cuts were not welcome and am happy to see that someone has come along that is expanding service out of milwaukee...I like Midwest because of the ability to redeem Midwest Miles on NWA to anywhere in the world, which is not available on Airtran.

Sooo, while I feel the pain of employees who look at Midwest as a shell of what it once was (maybe even just a wrapper of what it once was)...The rest of us on this board probably have been in the same situation and have moved on to newer and better opportunities...We are looking at Midwest with hope that it brings more availability to the business travelers in Milwaukee.

Well put blucys.... I've been laid off once in my life and it was not fun. I didn't lay blame on anyone. I moved on with more education and a better job. One door closes another opens. In my case it took almost 5 years for that next door to open. Dwelling on how poorly managed the company was that laid you off gets you nowhere. In my case the company that laid me off eventually went out of business. With that said, I was hoping the 319's would be in Midwest livery but I guess that will never happen.

Alright...I havent been on this board that long, but this whole thing about how Midwest has fallen is getting a bit old...I have worked for a couple of organizations that are definitely not what they were, but do not hold the animosity that some on this board do...Look, it was Midwest leadership that was ill prepared for 9/11 and the rising oil prices of the last ~10 years...It was Midwest leadership that decided against going with AirTran and went with TPG/NWA instead...The same Midwest leadership that built this great organization that everyone talks about having fallen from where they knew it.

Now everyone can argue about the horrible things that TPG did to Midwest, but the reality is that it was probably necessary (no one knows for sure as it was a private company at that point), otherwise Midwest might not exist at all, as who knows whether that leadership team that built Midwest would have been able to make the tough decisions that TPG made.

As a consumer the service cuts were not welcome and am happy to see that someone has come along that is expanding service out of milwaukee...I like Midwest because of the ability to redeem Midwest Miles on NWA to anywhere in the world, which is not available on Airtran.

Sooo, while I feel the pain of employees who look at Midwest as a shell of what it once was (maybe even just a wrapper of what it once was)...The rest of us on this board probably have been in the same situation and have moved on to newer and better opportunities...We are looking at Midwest with hope that it brings more availability to the business travelers in Milwaukee.


Understood.

You are the definition of the American Society in 2009. You are going to get the airline you wanted in MKE. Seat down, shut up and stop whining.

I don’t think I need to prove my position here as a loyalist to Midwest. Watching the changes and struggles at the company in recent years have not been easy, nor has it been easy sometimes to defend them. With the Republic sale and the likely surrender of the YX certificate, to say things are changing is an understatement.

With the Republic purchase, compounded by the failure of the unions to integrate, it seems likely that the full contingent of Midwest pilots and flight attendants will be out of work. As a result of prior downsizing, the remaining crews are the most senior, all or most of which have 15, 20 or more years of service. It’s really a shame, and I understand where the anger and loss comes from.

However, the harsh reality is this.

Do the vast majority of Midwest customers care who if their flight is flown by Midwest, Republic or Frontier pilots? Absolutely not.

Do the vast majority of Midwest customers choose Midwest because the inflight crews provide better service? Nope.

Do the vast majority of Midwest customers care what airline operates their flight? Nope.

I take absolutely no pleasure in saying any of those things. And the employees who gave it their all for years at Midwest, some of whom are or will now be out of work, don’t deserve what is happening to them. But it doesn’t change those three facts.

What are the primary buying decision factors for most travelers?

Competitive fares
Frequent flyer programs, including elite status benefits
Frequent flights
Nonstop flights
Corporate contract

The changes in onboard product which the Airbus hearken back to the first few years of Saver when all seats were coach, but with the addition of seatback inflight entertainment. I recognize that for some the lack of a premium section is a showstopper, but for the large majority of customers it is not. And I think it’s premature to assume no further onboard adjustments are coming.

Getting capacity into the bursting-at-the-seams MKE leisure routes is job one, and they are hobbling that together quickly. As such, what we see on the immediate horizon is not necessarily representative of what will be when the dust settles.

When it comes down to it, next to nobody is going to delibrately avoid Midwest because some employees are getting let go. Harsh but true.

With the Republic purchase, compounded by the failure of the unions to integrate, it seems likely that the full contingent of Midwest pilots and flight attendants will be out of work. As a result of prior downsizing, the remaining crews are the most senior, all or most of which have 15, 20 or more years of service. It’s really a shame, and I understand where the anger and loss comes from.


knope I have to tell you that the integration hasn't failed. Both unions (well AFA and ALPA are seeing it IBT's way) agreed to wait to start the integration after the F9 aquisition.

Knope is right, no one cares who fly's or services the airplane. People in Milwaukee and Kansas City were willing to pay a little more to fly "Midwest." Frequent flyers are not willing to do that anymore. And all the recreational flyers who may have known the thousands of local freinds and family members who were replaced at "Midwest" will avoid them. This Republic experiment will not last, but we will remember the great little airline that was, not this cheap replacement. I have booked away from "Midwest" for months and I am not alone. Why would anyone fly on "Midwest" if they have a choice?

I spoke with a Midwest rep yesterday, as one of my upcoming flights has been changed from an E190 to an A319. The rep explained that "as of right now" there will be no signature seating on the A319's. This made it sound like the A319's may eventually get signature seats (either that... or she didn't know).

She also mentioned that meals (and cookies) will still be served, and in-flight entertainment (live TV / movies) WILL be available for a charge once onboard.

I was hoping the 319's would be in Midwest livery but I guess that will never happen.

Never say never, but I tend to agree with you on this one. Once things settle down, I do think we'll be seeing some sort of brand unification between Midwest and Frontier.

If Republic plays its cards right, they could take the best from both carriers and create an even better airline.

Of course, Republic may maintain the two seperate brands indefinately. However, the "Midwest" name will likely vanish at some point.

And all the recreational flyers who may have known the thousands of local freinds and family members who were replaced at "Midwest" will avoid them.

I don't doubt there are some who will avoid them out of personal spite, but I highly doubt it's a large number. People have short memories and will do all sorts of things to save a buck, to avoid an unattractive flight time or a connection, or to get their frequent flyer miles. The local media drumbeat of bad Midwest PR and layoff information has been steady for more than a year, but Midwest's loads don't suggest people booking away from them in broad numbers.

Why would anyone fly on "Midwest" if they have a choice?

The same reason anyone chooses any airline:

Fare
Frequent flyer credits
Departure time
Nonstop flight
Corporate contracts

Other things like onboard amenities and seating comfort invariably rank way down on the list. There are definitely exceptions to that rule, but time and time again it's been shown that for most people those considerations trump a better onboard experience. That's what has lead most everybody over the years to scrap any coach luxury that doesn't produce a direct revenue benefit.

Are there some people who in the past would have sought out Midwest solely for the more comfortable seats or who no longer will? I'm sure there are some. However those were never a large number, in part evidenced by the increased traffic and increased load factor when the M80's changed from 2x2 to 2x3...it was about fare for those markets, not about seating comfort. For those passengers, Midwest will have to compete not with premium service but by price, schedule, frequent flyer miles, nonstop flights, etc. Which is what they've primarily had to do all along even when the onboard experience was something special.

I spoke with a Midwest rep yesterday, as one of my upcoming flights has been changed from an E190 to an A319. The rep explained that "as of right now" there will be no signature seating on the A319's. This made it sound like the A319's may eventually get signature seats (either that... or she didn't know).

She also mentioned that meals (and cookies) will still be served, and in-flight entertainment (live TV / movies) WILL be available for a charge once onboard.

I think there are a lot of things simply not yet decided.

As much as those of us who follow Midwest very closely are wondering if the Airbus this fall signals an end to Signature's enhanced coach seating once and for all, at the same time I'm hearing some Frontier groupies fretting about what it means that the E190 is coming to the Frontier system with a premium coach section. Will they charge more for it? Will people be able to select those seats ahead of time? Is Frontier's brand being harmed by the E190's not having inflight entertainment systems? What will the onboard service be? etc., etc.

So I think it's safe to say that the details are not all worked out. I have grown to like the idea of a premium section with an upcharge because it plays into the psychological buying decision of consumers. I hope Frontier adapts it. Charge $210 round trip when the competitors are charging $140 round trip and nobody will book you. Charge $140 round trip as everybody else does, but give customers the option of paying an extra $35 each way for a better seat, and you'll in essence sell a decent number of $210 round trip fares. As a customer I hate having to pay extra for seat assignment, or to check bags, or (hate to a lesser extent) for a premium seat. But it's a great idea from a revenue standpoint because customers have become so engrained with the idea of getting a boast-worthy low fare. They'll balk at paying more than $89 each way from Milwaukee to Florida, but they'll drop $20+ in the D concourse waiting for their flight without batting an eye on expensive snacks, coffee, magazines, a shrink-wrapped sandwich, soda, etc.

I'd like to see the best of both brands combined, no matter if both brands survive or if they are consolidated to a single brand. Time will tell what they do.

knope I have to tell you that the integration hasn't failed. Both unions (well AFA and ALPA are seeing it IBT's way) agreed to wait to start the integration after the F9 aquisition.

I'm very hopeful that this means Midwest crews will have an opportunity to keep flying if they choose. We know that, for those who do, their pay will be siginificantly less than what they receive today. But this has the potential of at least offering an option. Without it, everybody is laid off and the only way to get back in the air is to hope someone hires you and to start out at the bottom.

It remains to be seen, of course, just how integration will work out. How will Midwest and Frontier crew years of experience will be accommodated, and how employees already on furlough will be handled? Integration could go very badly for Midwest and Frontier crews, I suppose. Various rumors and reports have been floating around for weeks. But at least there's hope that this will be resolved in a way which doesn't simply put all Midwest pilots and inflight on the street.

Friend of mine has been a very outspoken critic of Midwest management. "I will never fly them again." "Screw them the way they have treaated their workers." etc...

He just booked a ticket on Midwest to Tampa. Why? Price.

Price is the great philiosopical equalizer.

From JSOnline:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/60286922.html

Knope is right, no one cares who fly's or services the airplane. People in Milwaukee and Kansas City were willing to pay a little more to fly "Midwest." Frequent flyers are not willing to do that anymore. And all the recreational flyers who may have known the thousands of local freinds and family members who were replaced at "Midwest" will avoid them. This Republic experiment will not last, but we will remember the great little airline that was, not this cheap replacement. I have booked away from "Midwest" for months and I am not alone. Why would anyone fly on "Midwest" if they have a choice?

I am not sure that anyone has really known who flies and services any plane that they have flown on...I do remember the days (2001, pre-9/11) when it was special to get onto an all business class plane, but the industry changed and that leadership that built Midwest was unable to change the model and maintain the business and keep all of the great employees...Why isnt that realized? The same leadership that built Midwest is the one that took it to the point of almost being hostily taken over by Airtran.

Knope has outlined the reasons people book the flight they book...The reasons for me is schedule, route (I'll take the higher priced route if it is direct and at a time I want), frequent flyer program, then comes price...And for me "Midwest" is the best fit for someone that travels every week, but lives in Milwaukee...If I lived in Chicago, I'm pretty sure I would be on either United or American, but my criteria would be the same.

I agree also with Knope's reasons people choose carriers and flights.

Since I tend to be a little more at the high-end of travellers (which I realize is the minority), my criteria are SkyTeam EQMs and convenience equally, quality of service, and lastly price, as long as price is not outrageous. Being MSN-based, I typically check options out of MSN on Nelta and MKE on Nelta and Midwest, then decide.

When Midwest was all of the above PLUS a customer-service experience head-and-shoulders above everyone else, I used to go out of my way to fly them, sacrificing some convenience if I had to. Now, since the service on Skywest, Chautauqua, Republic and the few actual Midwest Airlines flights left is generally still good, but not great, I include them in the mix but have no special allegiance to them. I guess I see no real reason to favor Midwest but no reason to avoid them, either.

Being DL Medallion, one aspect of price does stand out to me: baggage. If my partner and I are on a trip where we each need to check two bags, we're talking an extra $200 that we wouldn't have to pay on Nelta. That's no small chunk of change, considering the airfares often tend to be similar, particularly on the refundable fares we often buy.

Besides that, what may drive me away is if the Delta-Midwest FF and lounge access deal falls through (nothing seems clear with that yet). In that case I'd rarely fly Midwest and may even consider Airtran's business class. The all-coach 319s aren't something I'd go out of my way for either, though I find the 170s and 190s comfortable and desirable. I'd probably prefer the chance of an F upgrade on Nelta over the all-coach 319s, unless there were a dramatic convenience advantage. On the other hand, if a full reciprocal deal were struck with Delta that includes lounge access and baggage fee waiver for Delta Medallions (or even refundable fare buckets), I'd probably be driving to Milwaukee for the nonstops all the time.

I wrote a trip report on FT last night on Chautauqua-operated Midwest Connect flights I took last weekend, and the experience really helped me put together the above understanding about how I feel about Midwest. I wrote way too much; writing the trip report took longer than the flight.

Never say never, but I tend to agree with you on this one. Once things settle down, I do think we'll be seeing some sort of brand unification between Midwest and Frontier.

If Republic plays its cards right, they could take the best from both carriers and create an even better airline.

Of course, Republic may maintain the two seperate brands indefinately. However, the "Midwest" name will likely vanish at some point.

For whatever its worth, I was departing DEN on Monday evening and saw an airbus with a 'gray' tail (no animal) but still Frontier livery on the fuselage. I saw it at the Continental hangar, just as we were taking off, so it was a brief view. No idea if this is a new delivery, or possibly one that is being returned . I thought this might be a plan heading to Midwest, but of course, its just speculation. Midwest seems pretty quick to paint planes, but with a small fleet this is pretty easy...

For whatever its worth, I was departing DEN on Monday evening and saw an airbus with a 'gray' tail (no animal) but still Frontier livery on the fuselage. I saw it at the Continental hangar, just as we were taking off, so it was a brief view. No idea if this is a new delivery, or possibly one that is being returned . I thought this might be a plan heading to Midwest, but of course, its just speculation. Midwest seems pretty quick to paint planes, but with a small fleet this is pretty easy...

More than likely what you saw was an A318. Frontier is in the process of removing those aircraft from the fleet.

I believe that Frontier is not scheduled to receive any new Airbus aircraft until early next year.

http://www.midwestairlines.com/AboutUs/PlaneTypes/A319.aspx?utm_source=Weekly_100609&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=DYK

Looks like the A319's that are going to be flying Midwest routes out of Milwaukee will have DirecTV access along with the signature cookies...I think this goes along with what most of us thought would happen when it was announced.

http://www.midwestairlines.com/AboutUs/PlaneTypes/A319.aspx?utm_source=Weekly_100609&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=DYK

Looks like the A319's that are going to be flying Midwest routes out of Milwaukee will have DirecTV access along with the signature cookies...I think this goes along with what most of us thought would happen when it was announced.

Posted on YX site a couple of days ago:

http://www.midwestairlines.com/TravelDeals/Air/td_100609.aspx

One RT per day MKE-BOS, besides long haul routes, is scheduled for the A319.

Though the last 717 will soon be gone from the fleet, it is strange to see no carrier listed next to the aircraft type; all other aircraft note carriers.

http://www.midwestairlines.com/AboutUs/PlaneTypes.aspx

During the flight search process, available seats are not shown for the A319, unlike for the 717, E170, E190, or even the CRJ or E135/145, where open seats are clearly visible.

One cannot view A319 seats until the actual booking process, when the seat selection window appears, along with seat maps.

It would be very helpful if the A319 seat map were displayed prior to actually holding or completing a reservation.

During the flight search process, available seats are not shown for the A319, unlike for the 717, E170, E190, or even the CRJ or E135/145, where open seats are clearly visible.

One cannot view A319 seats until the actual booking process, when the seat selection window appears, along with seat maps.

It would be very helpful if the A319 seat map were displayed prior to actually holding or completing a reservation.

I just discovered that A319 seatmaps for YX flights are visible during the search process on Orbitz; A319 seatmaps are still not available on the YX site, until completing/holding the booking and selecting seats.

I'm very hopeful that this means Midwest crews will have an opportunity to keep flying if they choose. We know that, for those who do, their pay will be siginificantly less than what they receive today. But this has the potential of at least offering an option. Without it, everybody is laid off and the only way to get back in the air is to hope someone hires you and to start out at the bottom.

It remains to be seen, of course, just how integration will work out. How will Midwest and Frontier crew years of experience will be accommodated, and how employees already on furlough will be handled? Integration could go very badly for Midwest and Frontier crews, I suppose. Various rumors and reports have been floating around for weeks. But at least there's hope that this will be resolved in a way which doesn't simply put all Midwest pilots and inflight on the street.

This can go two ways. I'm a RAH flight attendant. I'm on my 5th airline thanks to 4 furloughs, and I sure didn't keep MY seniority. The YX Flight attendants wanted their seniority to be their YX date of hire. Our Union said no way in hades are we going to make a company WE purchased have the most seniority out there. Remember - WE BOUGHT YOU.

Yeah I want a fair integration. Why? It could happen to me in the future. However, why should the work I'VE done to help make MY company $ to buy YX end up screwing me over by having MY seniority go down?

Remember - WE BOUGHT YOU.

YX and RAH merged. There are different obligations between buyouts and mergers.

However, why should the work I'VE done to help make MY company $ to buy YX end up screwing me over by having MY seniority go down?

As an airline, Republic is a name not recognized by the flying public. Your company makes money using the identity of the airlines you're contracted to fly for. Now, your company wants to use the brand identity YX flight crews built... In this merger, why should you benefit more than the YX crews? You bring airplanes to the table, they bring the brand identity and customer loyalty. Seems the two groups can't succeed as Midwest without the other...

Fence the YX crews to flying Midwest-painted airplanes. Problem solved. If it wasn't for your company taking their lines with the E70s, you wouldn't have that flying in the first place.

YX and RAH merged. There are different obligations between buyouts and mergers.



As an airline, Republic is a name not recognized by the flying public. Your company makes money using the identity of the airlines you're contracted to fly for. Now, your company wants to use the brand identity YX flight crews built... In this merger, why should you benefit more than the YX crews? You bring airplanes to the table, they bring the brand identity and customer loyalty. Seems the two groups can't succeed as Midwest without the other...

Fence the YX crews to flying Midwest-painted airplanes. Problem solved. If it wasn't for your company taking their lines with the E70s, you wouldn't have that flying in the first place.

YX and RAH merged. There are different obligations between buyouts and mergers.



As an airline, Republic is a name not recognized by the flying public. Your company makes money using the identity of the airlines you're contracted to fly for. Now, your company wants to use the brand identity YX flight crews built... In this merger, why should you benefit more than the YX crews? You bring airplanes to the table, they bring the brand identity and customer loyalty. Seems the two groups can't succeed as Midwest without the other...

Fence the YX crews to flying Midwest-painted airplanes. Problem solved. If it wasn't for your company taking their lines with the E70s, you wouldn't have that flying in the first place.

They were not merged. They were bought. It just so happens the union contracts state that anything owned by RAH has one seniority list. That's the only way there is a "merger", and that's a merger of crews. See the press releases:

"Announced Tuesday, Republic's PURCHASE of Midwest from TPG Capital, a Texas investment firm, would end 25 years of local control for the largest airline to fly out of Mitchell International Airport."

So if the YX brand disappears into F9, does that mean that the YX people should suffer and the F9 people should gain? It's odd that our unions aren't having the same problems with the F9 people...only the YX ones.

You people think we are all evil...but think about where YX would be if they just kept floundering along. Maybe they would be part of Airtran, but do you think THAT would have fair integration? Or maybe bankrupt and everyone out of a job - who knows? The point is, you and I can't change anything.

I'm practically a financial illiterate, so someone correct me if I'm wrong in saying the companies merged...

http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/091016/REPUBLIC-AIRWAYS-HOLDINGS-INC_8-K.A/v163009_ex99-4.htm

Don't put too much faith in the words journalists use... they're no more bright than the rest of us.

So if the YX brand disappears into F9, does that mean that the YX people should suffer and the F9 people should gain? It's odd that our unions aren't having the same problems with the F9 people...only the YX ones.

Maybe the YX folks are a little more desperate (ergo, "problems") because they are the only ones in the deal currently not earning income. Would you be a little pushy if your CEO walked over your back with $12M in his pocket, leaving you with no income to even buy your kids Christmas presents?

The fence is a short term solution. However, fences expire. Right now, YX is nothing more than a "brand." While RAH is betting a lot on that brand's survival, let's not forget that even now, all former YX employees are currently furloughed RAH employees. If YX goes away, then those employees will bid what their eventual RAH seniority holds.

You people think we are all evil...but think about where YX would be if they just kept floundering along. Maybe they would be part of Airtran, but do you think THAT would have fair integration? Or maybe bankrupt and everyone out of a job - who knows? The point is, you and I can't change anything.

"You people"?!? What do you mean by that???

Woulda, coulda, shoulda (reference to FL merger talks)... RAH merged with YX. You can't base your level of responsibility for fair integration on a deal that "could have" happened. Do you want to play "tit-for-tat" or work towards a fair solution? It's up to both sides...

SLI is going to happen. Everyone needs to come to terms that they are not going to get everything they want in negotiations. I understand you wanting to staple the former YX crews to the bottom, but don't you recognize the value they bring to preserving the success of the Midwest brand? And as a professional, have you no reverence for a 25 year career, as is the case for some YX FAs?

I'm practically a financial illiterate, so someone correct me if I'm wrong in saying the companies merged...

Republic bought Midwest. It was not a merger at all. Republic paid in cash for Midwest. However, I'm definitely not involving myself in the pilot integration discussion as that's not as black and white.

From what I understand, while RAH paid cash for the assets, the deal was filed with the SEC as a merger. Can someone verify the legal nature of the filing and how the MECs are approaching this?

Why should frontier F/As drink the AFA kool-aide? All AFA cares about is instigating trouble, collecting dues and growing its membership. They lead the YX F/A's like lemmings off the cliff, because they would rather lose 500 dues payers than save their jobs through paycuts. Any accepted concession would establish bad precedent for the national union. Frontier F/A's must know the only interest Pat Friend, CWA, and AFL-CIO have is growing their revenue base, and fattening the PAC kitty.

In the case of YX, AFA was unwilling to embrace reality; namely an under-capitalized, poorly managed airline could only survive with a white knight and competitive cost structure. Instead they keep holding out false hopes that Santa and the Easter bunny are going to arrive bearing jobs, seniority and high wages. Most of the YX F/As would have opted to stay on at lower wages if they hadn't been snowed under with Toni and her DC cadre of false hope. Toni will have a job with AFA after all is done - for she has done well in being a shill for the union. Unfortunately her interests were not in the best interest of most of the YX F/As who bought in to the AFA claptrap about the resurrection of Alleghany Mohawk, et al.

Cab,

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Your points about seniority and wages contradict. If it's not about wages, as you say most YX FAs would have taken less compensation if it were not for Toni fighting to make AFA look good, then why should they care about seniority? While work rules and schedule are also a consideration, let's not forget that pilots and flight attendants (arguably through no choice of their own, I don't want to get into it), took work from their union brothers and sisters (ALPA, IBT, AFA... same union from my perspective). Now the YX FAs are being asked to do the same work at significantly lower wages, while saving the brand identity and enculturing RJET FAs that have no stake in MKE or the brand.

As a DL Diamond (Feb 2010), you obviously know the meaning of brand loyalty. While YX FAs don't have airplanes to fly until integrated, RJET FAs have no idea how to maintain the YX brand. Obviously BB saw value in the brand, otherwise why waste resources saving a "floundering airline?" Regardless of what either FA or pilot group wants, BB wants a merger. Do the RJET FAs really think that a staple will lead to brand sustainability? It's more likely that fair integration will lead to prosperity and sustainability as competition increases in MKE. The reality is, this integration is about power, not survival. BB could change that if he'd show some leadership.

MKE residents know that Midwest isn't the hometown airline anymore. What the RJET employee group seems to not get is that it is their responsibility to resurrect that feeling-MKE fliers aren't fooled by shell games. MECs: Better hurry and integrate before Southwest gets entrenched in the community... Check out their corporate citizenship plan here: http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/southwest_cares/southwestcares_6_8_09.pdf

Notice Southwest's goal to be the "Hometown airline in every city they serve." Sound familiar? And they're really good at it. The sad thing is, Midwest doesn't even have a mission statement. Nothing about BB's plan so far says "sustainable" to me.

I'm practically a financial illiterate, so someone correct me if I'm wrong in saying the companies merged...

http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/091016/REPUBLIC-AIRWAYS-HOLDINGS-INC_8-K.A/v163009_ex99-4.htm

Don't put too much faith in the words journalists use... they're no more bright than the rest of us.



Maybe the YX folks are a little more desperate (ergo, "problems") because they are the only ones in the deal currently not earning income. Would you be a little pushy if your CEO walked over your back with $12M in his pocket, leaving you with no income to even buy your kids Christmas presents?

The fence is a short term solution. However, fences expire. Right now, YX is nothing more than a "brand." While RAH is betting a lot on that brand's survival, let's not forget that even now, all former YX employees are currently furloughed RAH employees. If YX goes away, then those employees will bid what their eventual RAH seniority holds.



"You people"?!? What do you mean by that???

Woulda, coulda, shoulda (reference to FL merger talks)... RAH merged with YX. You can't base your level of responsibility for fair integration on a deal that "could have" happened. Do you want to play "tit-for-tat" or work towards a fair solution? It's up to both sides...

SLI is going to happen. Everyone needs to come to terms that they are not going to get everything they want in negotiations. I understand you wanting to staple the former YX crews to the bottom, but don't you recognize the value they bring to preserving the success of the Midwest brand? And as a professional, have you no reverence for a 25 year career, as is the case for some YX FAs?

I never said they should be stapled to the bottom. They should be fairly integrated. However, they shouldn't be the most senior flight attendants like they were trying to demand. And no, should I have reverence for them? No one has reverence for my 15 years...we get treated exactly the same way the rookies are.

People think that regionals are all young, first airline job people. But post 9/11, our airline is made up of TONS of furloughed previous airline people. We didn't get special treatment.

By no means am I degrading the quality or caliber of the YX folks (except the hateful ones I seem to run into). However, they need to learn how to play FAIR and not try to demand that they be the "cream of the crop."

MKE residents know that Midwest isn't the hometown airline anymore. What the RJET employee group seems to not get is that it is their responsibility to resurrect that feeling-MKE fliers aren't fooled by shell games.

I take exception with this comment. I am one of those residents and as a business traveler, I fly YX and find virtually no change in service aboard the Republic planes. On my flights, I have found everyone to be just as personable and nice as the classic YX staff.

Pigeye,

If you saw a contradiction in what I said I apologize. My point was simple - AFA sold out it smembers because it would not take wage cuts. Yet, they keep promising the rank file all kinds of sunshine including wages and favorable seniority. In fact AFA even suggested to its members if they could could get Frontier F/As to sign up for AFA then BB would have to accept the YX AFA contract and not the IBT - forcing rjet F/As into the YX CBA. Don't need to be a labor lawyer to smell the manure in such a claim.

From what I understand, while RAH paid cash for the assets, the deal was filed with the SEC as a merger. Can someone verify the legal nature of the filing and how the MECs are approaching this?



TPG received a ownership position in Republic and a seat on the Board of Directors. From a SEC filing...


Item 2.01 Completion of Acquisition or Disposition of Assets.

On July 31, 2009, pursuant to the terms of the Agreement and Plan of Merger, dated as of June 23, 2009, among Republic Airways Holdings Inc. (the “Company”), RJET Acquisition, Inc. and Midwest Air Group, Inc. (“MAG”), as amended (the “Merger Agreement”), RJET Acquisition, Inc. merged with and into MAG (the “Merger”) with MAG continuing as the surviving corporation and becoming a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Company. Pursuant to the Merger Agreement, at the effective time of the Merger

I believe TPG and Republic merged for some unknown reason verses a straight purchase.

I take exception with this comment. I am one of those residents and as a business traveler, I fly YX and find virtually no change in service aboard the Republic planes. On my flights, I have found everyone to be just as personable and nice as the classic YX staff.


Sure, the smiles are there.

I'm hearing about service problems because the Republic flight attendants don't feel they are paid to provide extra services on Midwest flights.

I'm hearing about service problems because the Republic flight attendants don't feel they are paid to provide extra services on Midwest flights.

What do the Republic flight attendants find excessive? They go through the cabin with a drink cart and maybe 15 to 20 people, tops, ask for some kind of food item...15 to 20 is the extreme too. Is handing out cookies too much work?

On the bright side for these flight attendants that believe they are not paid enough for the service provide, at least they don't have to hand out a snack on morning flights anymore.

I have not noticed that big of a difference to be honest.

Pigeye,

If you saw a contradiction in what I said I apologize. My point was simple - AFA sold out its members because it would not take wage cuts. Yet, they keep promising the rank file all kinds of sunshine including wages and favorable seniority. In fact AFA even suggested to its members if they could could get Frontier F/As to sign up for AFA then BB would have to accept the YX AFA contract and not the IBT - forcing rjet F/As into the YX CBA. Don't need to be a labor lawyer to smell the manure in such a claim.

Got it. Yes, I agree that both ALPA and AFA sold out YX for their own positioning. The MECs are in a tough position of having to both support the rank and file, and the union.

The unions were brought in to prevent management from implementing these tactics. Both failed. They're in the pockets of their largest organizations, which is both a no-brainer, but also highlights their greed masked as benevolence.

Just an FYI...I was on another A319 flight between MKE and BOS and they it sounds like they are terming the Midwest routes that Frontier flies as "Thank you for flying Midwest Airlines, operated by Frontier".

I saw a thread on airliners.net that thought people would get super confused by the fact that people wouldnt know how to book the flights, or would walk up to the gate and see a Frontier plane and then walk on the flight and it wouldnt be Midwest branded...I dont think this will be the case...The reality is that it was a Midwest flight number, you checked in at the Midwest desk, went to the Midwest gate and had Midwest gate agents....Its pretty easy, the interesting thing will getting the MME's used to the new perks of free drinks and TV on the Airbus's.

Side note, the changes are AWESOME!!

They were not merged. They were bought. It just so happens the union contracts state that anything owned by RAH has one seniority list. That's the only way there is a "merger", and that's a merger of crews. See the press releases:

"Announced Tuesday, Republic's PURCHASE of Midwest from TPG Capital, a Texas investment firm, would end 25 years of local control for the largest airline to fly out of Mitchell International Airport."

So if the YX brand disappears into F9, does that mean that the YX people should suffer and the F9 people should gain? It's odd that our unions aren't having the same problems with the F9 people...only the YX ones.
You people think we are all evil...but think about where YX would be if they just kept floundering along. Maybe they would be part of Airtran, but do you think THAT would have fair integration? Or maybe bankrupt and everyone out of a job - who knows? The point is, you and I can't change anything.


Odd? Republic pilots fly all the Midwest aircraft, call themself Midwest pilots and delay integration of the Midwest pilots. Republics union and management are working together to fill all the Midwest jobs with Republic pilots... or just call it a "lock-out".

What are you smoking?

So if the YX brand disappears into F9.

No if, when. Midwest Airlines had a great history, but Midwest Airlines as a brand is passe. Republic's CEO stated that Midwest is now a virtual airline.

There are several reasons to rebrand, interestingly enough all are applicable to Midwest Airlines. I give the Midwest brand 1 1/2 years at the most, then it will be called something else.

There are several reasons to rebrand, interestingly enough all are applicable to Midwest Airlines. I give the Midwest brand 1 1/2 years at the most, then it will be called something else.

There have been predictions of six to nine months before Midwest is re-branded Frontier. Only time will tell.

There have been predictions of six to nine months before Midwest is re-branded Frontier. Only time will tell.

Agreed. The idea that YX is MKE's "hometown airline" is a joke. Only the history of a once great airline connects the two. Most YX "employees" have no connection to MKE. I agree that YX will be gone next year as "market conditions remain dynamic." What a great opportunity for FL or WN to brand themselves as MKE's airline, really entrenching themselves in the community... I suspect that will happen as the two stable players fight for market share.

I wouldn't be surprised to see YX/F9 substantially reduce MKE flying in the next year or two. Labor issues, climbing fuel prices, slowing air travel (yes, I know MKE is up), or the unforeseen would, IMO, have a much more devastating effect on the RJET family than F9 or WN.

There have been predictions of six to nine months before Midwest is re-branded Frontier. Only time will tell.

I'm not sure who has made those predictions, but both Bryan Bedford and Sean Menke have stated that both brands will be maintained indefinately.

While I'm inclined to believe that the Midwest brand will probably not survive long-term, I doubt it will be gone in six to nine months.

The idea that YX is MKE's "hometown airline" is a joke.

It's interesting how many are so fixated on this whole "hometown airline" mantra. Technically, Midwest hasn't been the "hometown airline" since January 2008 when the deal with TPG closed. Yet, some people have so much anger and animosity towards Republic. I suspect the people banging the "Midwest is not the hometown airline anymore" drum are former employees or those associated in some way with individuals who worked for the airline.

If Midwest can't be the hometown airline, I'm not sure how AirTran or Southwest could. They both have less flights and employees in MKE than Republic and are both headquartered outside of the state.

While damaged, the Midwest brand is still very strong in the Milwaukee market and according to many surveys the airline is still the first choice for air travel among many passengers. There is still a window of opportunity for Republic to rebuild the Midwest route structure and recapture much of the traffic left on the table last fall but they'll have to act fairly quickly. That's one of the reasons they've been so aggressive in adding back service.

We'll see how things unfold in MKE over the next two years, but I certainly wouldn't count Republic out yet. They seem to have the momentum lately and I hope they capitalize on that. Southwest has stated that new service is very unlikely in 2010 and AirTran has made comments about giving the MKE focus city "another year." Yet, Republic is the one that should be worried....

I'm not sure who has made those predictions, but both Bryan Bedford and Sean Menke have stated that both brands will be maintained indefinately.

While I'm inclined to believe that the Midwest brand will probably not survive long-term, I doubt it will be gone in six to nine months.

Someone we all know very well, Blue. Milwaukee's own Jay Sorensen. He did an interview with WISN the day the last 717 was removed from service.

We all know his reputation in Milwaukee, not very credible, but as I said, only time will tell.

It's interesting how many are so fixated on this whole "hometown airline" mantra. Technically, Midwest hasn't been the "hometown airline" since January 2008 when the deal with TPG closed. Yet, some people have so much anger and animosity towards Republic. I suspect the people banging the "Midwest is not the hometown airline anymore" drum are former employees or those associated in some way with individuals who worked for the airline.

If Midwest can't be the hometown airline, I'm not sure how AirTran or Southwest could. They both have less flights and employees in MKE than Republic and are both headquartered outside of the state.

While TPG owned YX, the work force did not change. Neighbors continued serving neighbors, incomes stayed in MKE and YX maintained its MKE identity. Yes, your suspicion is correct, I have a relative recently furloughed. However, what difference does it make? I buy airline tickets and went out of my way to fly YX. Let me ask, if Harley-Davidson replaced its union labor with lower cost Vietnamese or Mexican labor, would you still consider them as integral to MKE's identity as they are today?

Look at WN's corporate citizenship program... This is how you become a hometown airline: http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/southwest_cares/southwestcares_6_8_09.pdf

To suggest that there is no value-added in a city having its own airline is to suggest that Atlanta benefits in no way with Delta, Chicago/United, Minneapolis/NWA, etc... Sure, YX isn't an international carrier, but it certainly was showcased by the city and chamber of commerce.

My perspective s a professional pilot is that the industry is destroying itself and Republic is part of the problem. Low wages deter the most qualified pilots from seeking an airline job. While RAH pilots will profess they have lots of highly qualified guys, I argue they, like my relative are left overs from furloughs. After they retire, who wants to fly an airplane for $50K/year? Not me or my contemporaries. And we're the guys that the majors used to exclusively hire... Some airlines still maintain high qualification standards. Anger with RAH is narrow-minded. The problem is the management culture of airlines like RAH. WN can do it while maintaining professionalism (again, not the RAH pilots specifically, but the professionalism of their hiring standards, wages, work rules, etc...), and so can others. However, BB prefers an unsustainable model to maximize "shareholder value." TH, Lorenzo, and many others have proven how destructive that is.

While TPG owned YX, the work force did not change. Neighbors continued serving neighbors, incomes stayed in MKE and YX maintained its MKE identity.

The Midwest work force changed a great deal under TPG's ownership. SkyWay was shuttered and all of the flying was outsourced to SkyWest. There were more lay-offs and job reductions in the spring and fall of 2008 with reduced flying in MCI and the parking of the MD80s. The last big blow came with the addition of the twelve E170s and further reduction of the 717 fleet. TPG held Midwest's feet to the fire and forced the airline to make some very tough and drastic decisions. Would things have turned-out differently if the price of oil hadn't spiked so significantly or if economic conditions hadn't deteriorated so badly? I dunno.

I'm not sure who has made those predictions, but both Bryan Bedford and Sean Menke have stated that both brands will be maintained indefinately.

While I'm inclined to believe that the Midwest brand will probably not survive long-term, I doubt it will be gone in six to nine months.

I thought I heard Brian Bedford say during the 3Q earnings call that the branding issue will be looked at in 2010.

The Midwest work force changed a great deal under TPG's ownership. SkyWay was shuttered and all of the flying was outsourced to SkyWest. There were more lay-offs and job reductions in the spring and fall of 2008 with reduced flying in MCI and the parking of the MD80s. The last big blow came with the addition of the twelve E170s and further reduction of the 717 fleet. TPG held Midwest's feet to the fire and forced the airline to make some very tough and drastic decisions. Would things have turned-out differently if the price of oil hadn't spiked so significantly or if economic conditions hadn't deteriorated so badly? I dunno.

Ok, you got me... TPG brought in Skywest and RAH. Semantics aside, we all know what my point is. It's up to you whether or not "hometown" status is important. It is to me. IMO, it is not to Republic, yet they're hedging their success in MKE on the reputation built by those furloughed. Whatever brings in the most cash, I guess... Take a look at Green Mountain Coffee Roasters, a leader in one of the most competitive industries in the world. They know the importance of reputation.

The Alterra/Starbucks coffee debate sets off more "hometown" loyalties than the fact that nearly all YX employees are gone. This thing's upside-down...

I thought I heard Brian Bedford say during the 3Q earnings call that the branding issue will be looked at in 2010.

No specific mention was made to looking at the brands in 2010. Here are excerpts from the earnings call:

Sean Menke
"As it stands now, it is our intent to maintain the two brands, Frontier and Midwest, run by one management team focused on driving efficiencies and leveraging the quality that each brand exemplifies. A foundation of both brands has been their commitment to quality, customer service, and that commitment has been rewarded by the overwhelming support that both brands have received from the loyal customers in their hometown markets of Denver, Milwaukee, and Kansas City."


Bryan Bedford
"Till 2010 is the work in progress, we want to get it right, we want to make sure we get this integration pulled together, get the team moving in the same direction on both brands, ultimately we are going to have to lead to probably looking to what is the right brand long term to develop for the brand business, trying to find what the right attributes are between Midwest and Frontier, that is probably going to be a longer term exercise for us."

I do agree with you and others that the Midwest brand will probably not survive long-term. However, I do think it will take a lot longer than the six to nine months some analysts have predicted for the Midwest name to vanish.

Semantics aside, we all know what my point is. It's up to you whether or not "hometown" status is important. It is to me. IMO, it is not to Republic, yet they're hedging their success in MKE on the reputation built by those furloughed. Whatever brings in the most cash, I guess...

I understand and appreciate your point, pigeye.

Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter whether anyone thinks "hometown status" is important. No airline is headquartered in Milwaukee anymore.

Republic is hedging their success for the Midwest brand in MKE because they have no other place to retreat to. Despite everything that has happened in the last two years, the Midwest brand is still remarkably strong in the MKE market and Republic will do everything it can to capitalize on that. I think many on this board would agree that it was awful to see what happened to all of the furloughed Midwest employees. There were many fine individuals that helped give Midwest the much deserved reputation of providing the "best care in the air."

However, the harsh reality is that Republic has a business to operate. The end goal is to make a profit and put the Midwest brand back into a dominant position in MKE. That requires a much lower cost structure to be competitive with airlines such as AirTran or Southwest.

If Republic is successful with its branded operations, I do think that this will have huge ramifications for the entire airline industry. Time will tell.

I understand and appreciate your point, pigeye.

Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter whether anyone thinks "hometown status" is important. No airline is headquartered in Milwaukee anymore.

Republic is hedging their success for the Midwest brand in MKE because they have no other place to retreat to. Despite everything that has happened in the last two years, the Midwest brand is still remarkably strong in the MKE market and Republic will do everything it can to capitalize on that. I think many on this board would agree that it was awful to see what happened to all of the furloughed Midwest employees. There were many fine individuals that helped give Midwest the much deserved reputation of providing the "best care in the air."

However, the harsh reality is that Republic has a business to operate. The end goal is to make a profit and put the Midwest brand back into a dominant position in MKE. That requires a much lower cost structure to be competitive with airlines such as AirTran or Southwest.

If Republic is successful with its branded operations, I do think that this will have huge ramifications for the entire airline industry. Time will tell.

Nice post, Blue! Ultimately, all airlines do what's best for their business. It just happens that Republic thinks its best chances of making money are primarily in MKE and DEN. Yeah, they're not hometown in either city anymore, but I don't think the flying public really cares all that much when actually booking a ticket. They need to get somewhere, and many of them are extremely price conscious. Republic is aware of that.

Ok, you got me... TPG brought in Skywest and RAH. Semantics aside, we all know what my point is. It's up to you whether or not "hometown" status is important. It is to me. IMO, it is not to Republic, yet they're hedging their success in MKE on the reputation built by those furloughed. Whatever brings in the most cash, I guess... Take a look at Green Mountain Coffee Roasters, a leader in one of the most competitive industries in the world. They know the importance of reputation.

The Alterra/Starbucks coffee debate sets off more "hometown" loyalties than the fact that nearly all YX employees are gone. This thing's upside-down...

Hometown is a marketing phrase. It meant an airline run by Milwaukee people flying to some 30 non stop destinations with a quality of service that others did not provide.

Now it means, an airline that flys to 30 non-stop destinations employing local people, and keeping Mitchell a vibrant hub.

Fly to a lot of places non-stop. employ lots of people, support community causes, be visible and you will still be considered hometown. Moving hundreds of jobs here screams hometown, even if those jobs are not necessarily inside the cockpit or serving drinks in the back. Few people actually care where the big shots live. Most have no friends in River Hills.