KLM Flying Dutchman - NEW: KLM Economy Comfort!

Introductie Economy Comfort op ICA vluchten

Vanuit de belofte van ‘een reis vol inspiratie’ en de wensen van de klant, biedt KLM verschillende opties waarmee de klant zelf zijn reis geheel naar wens kan samenstellen.
Naast de bestaande keuzemogelijkheden die tegen betaling geboekt kunnen worden, zoals bijvoorbeeld ‘voorkeurszitplaatsen’ (stoelen met extra beenruimte en stoelen in een rij van twee), introduceert KLM een nieuwe keuzemogelijkheid voor stoelen op intercontinentale vluchten: Economy Comfort.

Wat is Economy Comfort

Economy Comfort is een zone met extra comfort in Economy Class: extra beenruimte (10 cm. meer) en een rugleuning die (tot twee keer) verder naar achteren kan. Afhankelijk van het vliegtuigtype zijn dit 34 tot 40 stoelen vooraan in Economy Class. Hierdoor kunnen passagiers tevens na landing sneller van boord. De zone is beschikbaar op alle intercontinentale vluchten vanaf december 2009.

Kosten

De toeslag voor een stoel in de Economy Comfort zone is 80 tot 150 euro per enkele reis, afhankelijk van de lengte van de vlucht. Alle passagiers kunnen, vanaf 90 dagen voor vertrek, een stoel in deze zone reserveren zolang beschikbaar.
Voor een aantal passagiers geldt een aantrekkelijke korting op de toeslag of is het zelfs kosteloos:
- Flying Blue Platinum: kosteloos
- Passagiers met een volledig flexibel Economy Class ticket (S en B-klasse): kosteloos
- Flying Blue Gold: 50% korting op de toeslag
- Flying Blue Silver: 25% korting op de toeslag

Reserveren:

• Voor Flying Blue deelnemers zijn er de volgende mogelijkheden:
o Flying Blue Platinum deelnemers komen kosteloos in aanmerking voor Economy Comfort. U kunt zelf een stoelnummer reserveren, vanaf 90 dagen voor vertrek. Dit is nu al mogelijk voor vluchten vertrekkend vanaf december. De stoelen in de Economy Comfort zone zijn in uw CRS zichtbaar als ‘preferred seats’, ofwel de voorste rijen stoelen in Economy Class. De Economy Comfort zone vervangt hiermee de Select Seating zone op ICA vluchten.

KLM Productnieuws
o Flying Blue Gold en Silver kunnen de stoelen reserveren met 50% respectievelijk 25% korting. U kunt het volgende doen:
�� Verwijzen naar de website www.klm.nl nadat ze via u een ticket hebben geboekt. Met het PNR-nummer kan via ‘Manage mijn Boeking’ (90 dagen tot 48 uur voor vertrek) of Internet Check-in (van 30 uur tot 30 minuten voor vertrek) een Economy Comfort stoelnummer worden gereserveerd en betaald. Dit kunt u eventueel ook zelf voor uw klant verzorgen.
�� Verwijzen naar de incheckautomaten op Schiphol (vanaf 30 uur tot 30 minuten voor vertrek).
�� Let op: reserveren via deze methodes is pas vanaf december beschikbaar.
�� Het is voorlopig niet mogelijk de kosten via het CRS te verrekenen.

• Voor alle andere passagiers die een stoel in de Economy Comfort zone wensen, zijn er de volgende mogelijkheden:
o Passagiers met een volledig flexibel Economy Class ticket (S en B-klasse): komen kosteloos in aanmerking voor Economy Comfort. U kunt zelf een stoelnummer reserveren, vanaf 90 dagen voor vertrek. Dit is nu al mogelijk voor vluchten vertrekkend vanaf december. De stoelen in de Economy Comfort zone zijn in uw CRS zichtbaar als ‘preferred seats’, ofwel de voorste rijen stoelen in Economy Class. De Economy Comfort zone vervangt hiermee de Select Seating zone op ICA-vluchten.
o Voor passagiers met een restricted Economy Class ticket (alle overige boekingsklassen) geldt een toeslag voor een stoel in de Economy Comfort zone. U kunt het volgende doen:
�� Verwijzen naar de website www.klm.nl nadat ze via u een ticket hebben geboekt. Met het PNR-nummer kan via ‘Manage mijn Boeking’ (90 dagen tot 48 uur voor vertrek) of Internet Check-in (van 30 uur tot 30 minuten voor vertrek) een Economy Comfort stoelnummer worden gereserveerd en betaald. Dit kunt u eventueel ook zelf voor uw klant verzorgen.
�� Verwijzen naar de incheckautomaten op Schiphol (vanaf 30 uur tot 30 minuten voor vertrek).
�� Let op: reserveren via deze methodes is pas vanaf december beschikbaar.
�� Het is voorlopig niet mogelijk de kosten via het CRS te verrekenen.

• Voor alle reserveringen in Economy Comfort geldt: “zolang beschikbaar”. Een Flying Blue Platinum deelnemer of een passagier met een volledig flexibel Economy Class ticket is dus niet per definitie verzekerd van een stoel in de Economy Comfort zone. Zo vroeg mogelijk reserveren wordt aangeraden.

KLM Productnieuws

• Voor companions van Flying Blue-deelnemers geldt geen korting. Zij kunnen zelf, tegen betaling, een stoel in deze zone reserveren via de website klm.nl (Manage mijn boeking of Internet Check-in) of via de incheckautomaten op Schiphol. Ook hiervoor geldt: dit kan pas vanaf december.
Ombouwfase
Van september tot december worden de vliegtuigen omgebouwd. Omdat dit één voor één gebeurt, kan het voorkomen dat de voorste rijen stoelen in Economy Class (de preferred seats) al zijn omgebouwd naar de Economy Comfort zone. Dit is niet zichtbaar in uw CRS. Het kan dus in deze periode voor de passagier een (aangename) verrassing zijn dat hij/zij aan boord een stoel in de Economy Comfort zone treft.

A short translation:

KLM is introducing an economy class with more legroom.
For PE members it is free; GE get 50% discount on the fee and SE get 25% discount. Full-fare Y passengers are also exempt from the fee.

The fee depends on the length of the flight. This new service is bookable from December, as all planes will be converted from September till December.

So instead of introducing a new class like AF, KLM has chosen just to increase the legroom & pitch [like UA E+].

Gajan

+ double the current recline (seems dubious.. same recline as AF E+ seats? or better?)

I wonder what about other ST E+ members? Any discounts?

With the introduction of this, it means that getting those free upgrades to Biz (that seldom happens anyways..) becomes even less.. :o

Am also wondering what happens to those "special" upgrade fees to Biz during online check-in? Increase in price?

:)

At least they value their PE members with free seating in this zone.
Comparing them to United, United is more generous if I am correct [1K get to take 9 people in E+ etc].

Coming from KL this is a (pleasant) surprise. It is actually an improvement, and it's a perk for Plats. Not enough for me to want to requalify this year, but still, nice.

Sorry, Gajan, but my Dutch language skills aren't really up to the task! My question is: does this new 'class' come with enhanced in-flight meals/drinks, like (I think) AF E+ does/will? Or is it more like the 'preferred seats' arrangement on carriers like CO?


But it's a nice touch for FB elites, though, and shows (finally) some distinction between Gold and Plat! ^

Thanks,
-- Henry

It's it just for Longhaul? What happens to the priority seating arrangements for Elite+ that were introduced?

And top-tier with other ST FFPs don't qualify for the free "upgrade"?

Sorry, Gajan, but my Dutch language skills aren't really up to the task! My question is: does this new 'class' come with enhanced in-flight meals/drinks, like (I think) AF E+ does/will? Or is it more like the 'preferred seats' arrangement on carriers like CO?


But it's a nice touch for FB elites, though, and shows (finally) some distinction between Gold and Plat! ^

Thanks,
-- Henry


Judging from the information, I would say it is only increased legroom & recline.

wensen van de klant [...]keuzemogelijkhedenDoes this language (airline newspeak for 'you will have to pay more') not send shivers down your spine? I really wish that these things could be expressed in plain ordinary language.

What happens to the priority seating arrangements for Elite+ that were introduced?

Economy comfort will replace the select seating zone.

De stoelen in de Economy Comfort zone zijn in uw CRS zichtbaar als ‘preferred seats’, ofwel de voorste rijen stoelen in Economy Class. De Economy Comfort zone vervangt hiermee de Select Seating zone op ICA vluchten.

It's it just for Longhaul?


Yes, for short-haul I will presume that they will keep the first few rows "blocked" for elites.

And top-tier with other ST FFPs don't qualify for the free "upgrade"?

I have no idea. I would presume it would be a problem, as the select seating zone will be replaced by the economy comfort. As the select seating zone is accessible for Skyteam Elite(Plus), I wonder how they will implement this.

Hi all,

Note the comment about companions as well:

Voor companions van Flying Blue-deelnemers geldt geen korting

People flying on the same PNR as an Elite member do not get any discount. So if you as a Plat want to benefit from this seating, and you happen to travel with your partner/spouse/..., you will have to fork over the money for them.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

Reported in English before.

"Following the introduction of premium economy cabin in Air France, now KLM has also decided it will fit some aircraft with an additional premium economy cabin to counteract falling demand for the business class product.

It is yet to be decided whether the premium economy cabin will follow AF strategy of new seats, or whether it will just provided added seat pitch, amenity kit and enhanced meal service (like UA product) with the same economy seats.

Currently the possible routes for introduction of the product are also under examination. The premium economy cabin is to be launched by end 2009."

FT: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman/944047-premium-economy-klm-confirmed.html

It is a very interesting initiative, but I do see possible downsides:

If the seat in front of you reclines twice as far, you can no longer watch your movie (As it is it is already difficult for tall people such as me)

10% extra sounds great, but again, the double recline of the seat in front of is no fun if you are tall, and it will make you feel as if the person in front of you lays his head in your lap!

Unless, of course, special seats are implemented to deal with this.

does this new 'class' come with enhanced in-flight meals/drinks, like (I think) AF E+ does/will?

As far as I understood, PE on AF will NOT get enhanced meals/drinks either. In fact, it explicitly says that the catering will be that of Voyageur.

I agree with others this is a nice initiative. Better than I thought it would be. I will now wait for the details. I would presume that there will still be a 'new' select seating behind the current select seating as gold/silver must be offered it if they don't want to pay the fee of 'economy comfort' even with the reduction.

PS: For those of us who don't speak Dutch...

Choose for greater comfort in KLM’s Economy Class
Amstelveen – 2009-16-09

With effect from December, passengers travelling in Economy Class on all intercontinental flights operated by KLM Royal Dutch Airlines can choose seats offering greater comfort. The new Economy Comfort zone offers up to ten centimetres more legroom and back supports that can recline twice as far. What’s more, Economy Comfort passengers can also disembark quicker after landing because their seating zone is located at the front of Economy Class.

KLM will be offering the new Economy Comfort zone in response to customer demands for greater comfort and more choice in Economy Class on intercontinental flights. The Economy Comfort zone supplements the preferred seats already available at an additional charge. This development forms part of KLM’s long-term programme entitled ‘The Customer Journey’, which focuses on renewing its brand position and awarding top priority to customer demands.

KLM’s entire intercontinental fleet will be equipped with the new zone. The first aircraft have already been converted. The remaining aircraft will follow in the months ahead, enabling all passengers to choose for the Economy Comfort zone on intercontinental flights from December.

Depending on the distances involved, the price of the new zone will amount to between €80 and €150 for a single leg of the journey. Flying Blue Platinum members and passengers travelling on a full-flex Economy Class ticket can book Economy Comfort seats without a surcharge. Flying Blue Gold members will be offered a 50% discount and Flying Blue Silver members 25%. The service in Economy Comfort will be the same as that in Economy Class.

Economy Comfort seats can be booked from the end of November at www.klm.com or at the airport using the self-service check-in or transfer kiosks.

For more information, please contact: KLM Media Relations at: +31(0)20-6494545

Images are available via www.presslink.nl/klm

Thanks for the translation, orbitmic, and the clarification re AF E+. I guess I was getting confused with the "Alizé" mini-cabin on AF's COI flights, which, I believe, do have 'enhanced' service (the advert on the website says something like, "get a taste of Affaires").

-- Henry

As a PE I appreciate this but one of the advantages of the select seating was that my non-Elite spouse could join me in the select section. Now we will either have to fork out up to 150 euro or we'll both sit in the Economy Discomfort section.

Availability on all aircraft from December seems to imply that the AVOD installation in the B744 fleet might be on a fast track after all.

As a PE I appreciate this but one of the advantages of the select seating was that my non-Elite spouse could join me in the select section. Now we will either have to fork out up to 150 euro or we'll both sit in the Economy Discomfort section.

Availability on all aircraft from December seems to imply that the AVOD installation in the B744 fleet might be on a fast track after all.

Yep. Incidentally, having looked at the photos (following the link from the English version) I'll admit that it looks less than spectacular. After all, 10 cm extra legroom while nice, is not 'fantastic', and as the KL seats don't recline much, double the current recline probably takes it close-ish to the regular AF recline with the new seats?

Well glad that for PE's it's indeed free as I'd posted earlier (heard it from a reliable source at KLM...).
I hear that 1x747 has been reconfigured already, it's PH-BFM, one row (row 18) has been removed and the seats re-aligned
Also 3 MD-11's but don't know all the registrations yet but definitely KCA is one of them.

If you fly on one of these, let us know how it is please!

So it would appear that while giving Gold's and Plat's the seat choice option just a short time ago, they are taking the benefit away from Gold's unless they want to shell out €40-75. Unless, they keep the seat choice and have this as well. That is definitely not clear and like I said the way for other ST E+ FFPs.

I can't stop wondering what it will be like to be seated in the first row of normal Y behind the last row of Eco+. Will the seat recline of the seats in the last row of Eco+ still be double and make you, in Eco, feel "trapped" or will this last row of Eco+ have normal recline, and just extra seat pitch?

I can't stop wondering what it will be like to be seated in the first row of normal Y behind the last row of Eco+. Will the seat recline of the seats in the last row of Eco+ still be double and make you, in Eco, feel "trapped" or will this last row of Eco+ have normal recline, and just extra seat pitch?

The E+ seats are in a hard shell, and won't interfere with the space behind them (at least on AF) ^

Hi Cupart,

The E+ seats are in a hard shell, and won't interfere with the space behind them (at least on AF) ^

That's only on the AF version. The KL version is the normal seat, as per the pictures that are linked to earlier in the thread.

It is an interesting question. Maybe the first row of normal Y will get some extra seat pitch too, and will be listed as prefered seating.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

Maybe the first row of normal Y will get some extra seat pitch too, and will be listed as prefered seating.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

That would be my guess too. This way, KL can also charge non-elites the usual fee for these too! (which is less than for the 'eco comfort')

What happens when there are more plat card holders than seats on a flight then? Bun fight? Is that likely?

Hi chunk,

What happens when there are more plat card holders than seats on a flight then? Bun fight? Is that likely?

Just the same as with preferred seating ... first booked, first confirmed.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

Just the same as with preferred seating ... first booked, first confirmed.

Until KLM decides that the fare bucket you pay is also part of the process, leaving preferred seating only for Plats with Y-fare tickets :rolleyes:

If someone Plat. books a last minute Y ticket, shouldn't he be entitled to have a better seat than the one who booked a cheap V ticket 10 months ago?

Doesn't look very appealing to me. I much prefer the Air France solution. Had KLM adopted the Air France type seat they would have become my airline of choice. This appears to be a nice product for free upgrades for elite members but not worth the extra $ for so little added comfort.

Aah, but the AF seats are genuine Voyageur Premium (E+); I don't think any FB elite/elite+ folks will be getting discount/free offers for these at booking or OLCI time ... just the occasional op-up, more like.

Although, having said that, I have had OLCI offer me the former Tempo Challenge on AF short-hauls a few times, and that included (almost) C-class service!

This KL approach seems to be more of an 'enhanced preferred seat' option (for a few extra spondooliks, if they can get them, or to appease FB Plats, if not) rather than a Premium Economy class per se.

-- Henry

What happens when there are more plat card holders than seats on a flight then? Bun fight? Is that likely?

It won't happen. Remember, we've all left after the April fools changes. Or are we now coming back? ;)

It won't happen. Remember, we've all left after the April fools changes. Or are we now coming back? ;)

Please don't come back. I really like being the only Plat on a flight and have flown more KLM this year than ever.

It won't happen. Remember, we've all left after the April fools changes. Or are we now coming back? ;)

Why on Earth would I come back?

KLM is once again marketing the added value of comfort without providing any real comfort at all.

So what do I get? Let's see: I want to go to IAH from AMS in Y.

On the website the fee in Feb 2010 is around 500 euro.
I earn only 25% FB Miles.
I pay another 50 euro's and get 50% Miles
I pay another 370 euro's and get 75% and if I pay 2,478 euro's they will give me the pleasure of earning 100% miles.

So then I want to sit in their "comfort" section. If I pay the 2,478 for a Y ticket I can sit in the comfort section for free, But if I'm traveling on a ticket with more restrictions I have to pay around 300 euro's extra.

Being Gold would save me 1/2.

So I can pay upwards of 300 euro's extra for an extra inch or four, and more recline (and the chance that KLM has not changed the monitors in the seatbacks, making them unviewable) and still earn no extra miles!

Or.....I can take that 300 euros and put it towards a second Y ticket on CO (same dates = 400 euros) where I'll earn 100% miles, and get an extra inch of pitch.

KLM has done a great job in keeping me away.

I read that the first Aircraft have already been converted, does anyone have a list of when each aircraft will be converted?

I'll be fying from Ams to JFk on the 26th of november on of their 772's and I'am currently in seat 10H. 11G is the only other seat taken in the premium seating area., And i don't want to take seat 11C because of the Lav in front.

I'am not absolutely sure about row 10 because you can't put your feet under the bulkhead infront. Will row 10 also get 4 extra inches when the seats are re-arranged? If not, any other seat in the prmium seating area might be a better choice.

As a PE I appreciate this but one of the advantages of the select seating was that my non-Elite spouse could join me in the select section. Now we will either have to fork out up to 150 euro or we'll both sit in the Economy Discomfort section.

Availability on all aircraft from December seems to imply that the AVOD installation in the B744 fleet might be on a fast track after all.

:confused: Why is your spouse not Elite? It just costs 90 euros per year for your AMEX card that extends your elite status to her and if you want one of your other family members...

:confused: Why is your spouse not Elite? It just costs 90 euros per year for your AMEX card that extends your elite status to her and if you want one of your other family members...

And for another 50 euro even another family member can join.

Only applicable for the Dutch FB Amex card BTW, but since MichielR is Dutch it's available for him.

Up to 10 centimeters extra legroom could also mean 0 or 1 extra centimeter I suppose...

It is good that they have listened and are adding benefits for Platinum. Just too bad there are few still interested in the program or flying them anymore.

:confused: Why is your spouse not Elite? It just costs 90 euros per year for your AMEX card that extends your elite status to her and if you want one of your other family members...

It seems that KL's introduction of Premium Economy would be the reason to spend 90 euro on a credit card...

Until now, I have a credit card linked to my bank account, for just a few euro per year. Until now, with my PE status my spouse could join me in the select seating area. Until now, I could bring my spouse and kids in to the lounge when we travelled as a family (yes, not according to the rules but we were always let in).

My point was that now I would have to get the Amex card (or two or three) to get these perks. Or pay 35 euro for lounge access for the kids. Well, at least the Amex is cheaper than 3 x 35 euro for lounge access or 150 euro for Premium Economy...

having looked at the photos I'll admit that it looks less than spectacular. After all, 10 cm extra legroom while nice, is not 'fantastic', and as the KL seats don't recline much, double the current recline probably takes it close-ish to the regular AF recline with the new seats?Try telling that to KL Senior VP Bram Graber, quoted in October issue of Zakenreis:

"Dan gaat het niet om een kleine bijstelling, zoals een tandje extra bijzetten op het gebied van catering. Wij hebben gekozen voor een wezenlijke aanpassing ten aanzien van beenruimte en comfort."

"We are not talking about minor changes such as spiffing up catering. We have opted for substantial adjustments in the areas of legroom and comfort."

Doh???

Johan

Having read the rest of the article, I can now add that according to Graber the new product is specifically aimed at corporate clients who have downgraded from C to Y. It is now up to them to play ball, Graber says.

The travel managers of two large Dutch companies interviewed in the same article expressed their doubts about the new product. A major objection was that Comfort Economy does not book into its own fare bucket, and can therefore not (yet) be reserved through regular GRS reservation systems. This increases the administrative burden, and makes it harder to stick to the company travel policy in employees "upgrade" at check-in and claim expenses afterwards. In one of the companies the travel policy was so restrictive that CE upgrades would require management approval.

Johan

I hear about 10 747's have been modified already and about 5 MD 11's ((will try to get the registrations from a friend at KL).
On the 747 row 18 on the zone between door 1L and 2L has been removed.
Has anyone noticed any difference?

Many corporate fare deals are heavily discounted and book into S and B class anyway so I am assuming there is no charge involved?
Luckily at my company we book in Business cabin for flights longer than 7 hours (used to be 5 hours, they recently adjusted it :mad: ) but I've seen only S and B booking classes for those times that I flew in Y.
The only gripe is that my company books "last minute" and then it's not sure if there are still seats left.

Still I think it's a good deal that Plat's get it for free, better than nothing although I can relate to the "travel companion" issue mentioned by other posters.

On the 747 row 18 on the zone between door 1L and 2L has been removed.Wasn't that the extra row they added just a few years ago? I can't imagine that its removal will make a difference worth 150 Euros to the individual pax.

Johan

Wasn't that the extra row they added just a few years ago? I can't imagine that its removal will make a difference worth 150 Euros to the individual pax.

Johan

They only added it on the two-seater side and removed that closet at the front row, remember?
On the 3-seater side row 18 was always there (except those days when this zone was still J-class............... seems like ages ago!)

Is it known yet, when planes would be converted? I'm on row 17 on a 777 on 27 november (AMS-NYC). For me it's not possible to select any rows before 17. As I understood that option becomes available 24 hours before departure?

Would like to know if comfort zone is also available then, or which seat I have to chose to get lucky... :D

Forgot to add:

- Service level will be the same between economy and economy comfort (only difference is the seat and legroom)
- Customer care told me, the final decision on the seat isn't take yet, it could be a hard-shell type, like the AF ones. End on november they will have real photos
- Pricing is fixed like their normal preferred seating priceline, flights shorter then 9 hours € 80, longer then 9 hours € 150.

It seems that KL's introduction of Premium Economy would be the reason to spend 90 euro on a credit card...

Until now, I have a credit card linked to my bank account, for just a few euro per year. Until now, with my PE status my spouse could join me in the select seating area. Until now, I could bring my spouse and kids in to the lounge when we travelled as a family (yes, not according to the rules but we were always let in).

My point was that now I would have to get the Amex card (or two or three) to get these perks. Or pay 35 euro for lounge access for the kids. Well, at least the Amex is cheaper than 3 x 35 euro for lounge access or 150 euro for Premium Economy...

Well, also don't forget that they will also be on the PLT lists for op ups improving your chances as a family and they will earn the platinum bonus for mileage accumulation and if DL ever re-instates the FC upgrades, they will also be eligible for FC upgrades when flying in the US. Big downside is that if they would have flown enough to qualify for PLT anyway, that they are not earning their own status and will not qualify for LTPE themselves.

If the seat in front of you reclines twice as far, you can no longer watch your movie (As it is it is already difficult for tall people such as me) 10% extra sounds great, but again, the double recline of the seat in front of is no fun if you are tall, and it will make you feel as if the person in front of you lays his head in your lap! Unless, of course, special seats are implemented to deal with this.
I completely agree. I thought this sounded like a great idea until I read the awful phrase "double the recline". Unless KLM chooses a shell seat, it is a grim prospect.

If you are tall, recline is useless because it just transfers the discomfort to the legs rather than the bottom of your spine. I never recline, partly consideration (don't want another debate, please) and partly because it doesn't make me any more comfortable unless there is a very good raised footrest which is almost never the case in economy or even premium economy.

Someone reclining in front of you that far would effectively 'break' the IFE for the whole flight. I can just about still see the screen in front on UA's Economy Plus on the 777s if the person in front reclines, and that is with ordinary recline. So on KLM you would pay 150 Euros for a recline you don't want and then get broken IFE for 11 hours. No thanks!

www.presslink.nl/klm

Either they have changed this press link or I am not looking properly (not unusual for me). I find images of House number 90 there.

www.presslink.nl/klm

Either they have changed this press link or I am not looking properly (not unusual for me). I find images of House number 90 there.

The link is okay, but it shows the last presslink. When you choose the option "Choose for greater comfort in KLM's economy class" you find the "old" info about this subject.

Was burning a few leftover miles (haven't paid for a ticket with AFKL for a long time now, and certainly not planning to) this weekend.

YUL-AMS, MD11 PH-KCG (Maria Callas). I was expecting an upgrade (I'm still Gold) as I usually get always upgraded to C on that route but instead I got upgraded to Y+. No special signage or anything, but there was a lot more space!

This won't bring me back to AF/KL, but it made this last flight with KL more comfortable.

Ciao

I was expecting an upgrade (I'm still Gold) as I usually get always upgraded to C on that route but instead I got upgraded to Y+. No special signage or anything, but there was a lot more space!

Ciao

Thanks for the info, that's good news!
They have not released the product yet but are already reconfiguring planes.

According to my sources at KLM, the following 747's and MD11's have been modified for Economy Comfort.
This means the seat pitch has been increased and recline increased.

I hear that the first row behind Economy Comfort has slightly more pitch (but less than Y+ of course) to compensate for the extra recline of the seat in front of it.
The solution to the issue of not being able to view the PTV screen if the seat in front reclines too much is found in moving the pivot point from middle of the screen to the top of the screen - that way you can pull out the TV more and have a better view.
Interested to hear if this is indeed the case.

747: PH-BFC, BFK, BFM, BFR, BFV, BFW = 6 planes, leaving 16 not yet done.
MD-11: PH-KCA, KCC, KCD, KCE, KCF, KCH, KCK = 7 planes, leaving 3 not yet done.
A330 + 777's not done yet apparently.

According to my sources at KLM, the following 747's and MD11's have been modified for Economy Comfort.
This means the seat pitch has been increased and recline increased.

I hear that the first row behind Economy Comfort has slightly more pitch (but less than Y+ of course) to compensate for the extra recline of the seat in front of it.
The solution to the issue of not being able to view the PTV screen if the seat in front reclines too much is found in moving the pivot point from middle of the screen to the top of the screen - that way you can pull out the TV more and have a better view.
Interested to hear if this is indeed the case.

747: PH-BFC, BFK, BFM, BFR, BFV, BFW = 6 planes, leaving 16 not yet done.
MD-11: PH-KCA, KCC, KCD, KCE, KCF, KCH, KCK = 7 planes, leaving 3 not yet done.
A330 + 777's not done yet apparently.

I think PH-KCC (Marie Curie) did not get it, but PH-KCG (Maria Callas) which I flew on in Y+ did ;)

Ciao

How many rows are they realligning on the MD-11?

Gajan

- Customer care told me, the final decision on the seat isn't take yet, it could be a hard-shell type, like the AF ones. End on november they will have real photos

God I hope they go for the hardshell. My main pain in economy is when there is a reclining seat in front - and it sounds like this could actually turn out to be WORSE in Economy "Comfort". But if the do a hard shell like AF and have a decent price, I'd be happy to switch back some business to KLM.

It's not a hard shell (yet).
I hear it's 4 rows in MD11's (plus the 2 seater in row 7 on the right).
For 747's it will be the entire zone between doors 1L and 2L.

any word on the 777 ?

And could someone inform when you can pay/ reserve preferred seating ? (for economy) Is that on OLCI?

Hi 005099,

Can't answer the 777 question, except for pointing to the earlier post that said that no 777's have been modified yet.

And could someone inform when you can pay/ reserve preferred seating ? (for economy) Is that on OLCI?

According to the info on KLM's website, starting in December, you will be able to do this online, upto 90 days before your flight. Apparently, you could already be able to do this over the phone or via a travel agent. I guess that they don't want to make it available online till most planes have been modified.

They also mention an option at OLCI, so if your plane has been converted, you will be able to take a comfort seat at that point.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

Hi 005099,

Can't answer the 777 question, except for pointing to the earlier post that said that no 777's have been modified yet.



According to the info on KLM's website, starting in December, you will be able to do this online, upto 90 days before your flight. Apparently, you could already be able to do this over the phone or via a travel agent. I guess that they don't want to make it available online till most planes have been modified.

They also mention an option at OLCI, so if your plane has been converted, you will be able to take a comfort seat at that point.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

I hear for 777's it's also 4 rows (plus the two-seaters on either side, row 10).
Not sure if for 777-300's it will be more than 4 rows.

The comment about travel agents is not entirely correct AFAIK.
S/B booking class gets you free access and these can be booked via travel agent (like the preferred seating for Elites and S-fares as we know it today).
But for all booking classes where you pay a fee you need to go to klm.com and get it through the Manage my Booking - can be done from 90 days before departure.
The thing I don't know concerns Platinum Elites - we get it for free but not sure if travel agents can book these or if we also need to go to KLM.com?

Hi chunk,



Just the same as with preferred seating ... first booked, first confirmed.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

No.. sold to a non PE member :)

Anyone know if the free for Platinum and discounts for Gold & Silver will be extended to other Skyteam elites?

Anyone know if the free for Platinum and discounts for Gold & Silver will be extended to other Skyteam elites?

Selfishly, I hope not!

Selfishly, I hope not!

Unless, of course, carriers like DL implement the old NW policy of free (domestic) upgrades for FB elites!

-- Henry

Sounds like a good trade to me.

When did the NW upgrades for FB Elites end? I always liked the close integration, as a NW Gold or Plat KLM always treated me like one of their own elites, in the days when KLM treated it elites well.




Unless, of course, carriers like DL implement the old NW policy of free (domestic) upgrades for FB elites!

-- Henry

They have started with the re-alignment on A330's and 772's now.
Both will have one row of seats removed and have four rows of Eco +.

On the 77W's they will not remove any seats but realign the current seats (which currently have more legroom in the zone between doors 1 and 2).
So Eco + gets more than now and Eco gets less :( although still 31 inches or more.

Entire widebody fleet will be completed before Dec 1st apparently.

My mom just fley AMS-CUR on PH-BFN she was sitting in the forward economy (economy+) section and she had a lot of legroom she said. Ad that one to your list. She had PTV to

My dad flew back from Delhi last weekend and was impressed with the legroom.

Now the information on Eco+ is also available on KLM website -

http://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/about/news_press/travel_news/floatingnews/economycomfort.htm

Rgs,

On the 77W's they will not remove any seats but realign the current seats (which currently have more legroom in the zone between doors 1 and 2)I thought KL's industry leading world class premium cabin (WBC) was located between doors 1 and 2 (or 11 and 12, in KL parlance)? Could certainly do with another 4" of pitch, that's for sure.

Johan

I am wondering if those extra seats will be available also for ST E+ that are for example from OK+.

They have started with the re-alignment on A330's and 772's now.
Both will have one row of seats removed and have four rows of Eco +.

On the 77W's they will not remove any seats but realign the current seats (which currently have more legroom in the zone between doors 1 and 2).
So Eco + gets more than now and Eco gets less :( although still 31 inches or more.

Entire widebody fleet will be completed before Dec 1st apparently.

Besides the point made by Johan, do you mean that B77W will also have 4 rows of Comfort Economy?

I thought KL's industry leading world class premium cabin (WBC) was located between doors 1 and 2 (or 11 and 12, in KL parlance)? Could certainly do with another 4" of pitch, that's for sure.

Johan

I would say that the B77W would not need more room compared to the other types, as these at least have pod-seats.
Fancy trying to climb out of your seat when the three people in front of you have reclined their seat in a B772 in WBC!

I would say that the B77W would not need more room compared to the other types, as these at least have pod-seats.True, but remove a row, like on KQ (and IB is now following suit), and hey presto! there's room for true flat-bed seats. Now that would be something.

Johan

I thought KL's industry leading world class premium cabin (WBC) was located between doors 1 and 2 (or 11 and 12, in KL parlance)? Could certainly do with another 4" of pitch, that's for sure.

Johan

My mistake, I meant doors 2L and 3L (is that 12 and 13 in KLM terms?).

It seems KL has adjusted its seatmap available online -

http://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/travel_information/on_board/seating_plans/777-200ER.htm

On the B772, B773, MD11 and B747M row 13 has been removed which could mean economy comfort will be dedicated to rows (9), 10, 11 and 12.

Rgs,

AFAIK KLM has never had a row 13 on any of their aircraft.

It seems KL has adjusted its seatmap available online -

http://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/travel_information/on_board/seating_plans/777-200ER.htm

On the B772, B773, MD11 and B747M row 13 has been removed which could mean economy comfort will be dedicated to rows (9), 10, 11 and 12.

Rgs,

Nonsense, KLM has never had row 13 on any plane.
On 747 it's row 18 that has been removed and the entire zone between doors 1L and 2L are Economy Comfort, not just the first 4 rows.

Voor passagiers die kosteloos in aanmerking komen voor Economy Comfort (Flying Blue Platinum Elite passagiers en passagiers in S, B of X-klasse) is het al mogelijk om een stoel in deze zone te reserveren, via uw CRS.

This at least means that Sky Miles members [and other Elite Plus members] will have to pay, just as us FB members have to pay for second piece of luggage on NW/DL flights [might be better giving both benefits on each others metal though].

Gajan

Hold a flight in economy (Q) on mid december ams-atlanta on kl metal.
Since today I was able to select a seat on the first three rows of economy (selected: 10a) through "manage my booking" while last week it was not yet possible.

There is no special icon what so ever to illustrate whether these front seats are economy comfort.

I am PE so no charge.

as always, i've selected my favorite seat, 11E, on the 74E for a few flights in Dec/Jan. now that economy comfort will be installed, is this still a good choice? and will economy comfort be available on the 74E by mid dec?

as always, i've selected my favorite seat, 11E, on the 74E for a few flights in Dec/Jan. now that economy comfort will be installed, is this still a good choice? and will economy comfort be available on the 74E by mid dec?

Yes I would imagine it's still good, there are no seats in front of you so you don't get extra legroom but you do get double the recline.

All planes will have the Eco+ by 1 Dec.

Those few inches may seem little, but the improvement in comfort is huge!

Please let us know when you experienced it, on which flight etc.
And welcome to FT!

Hi jetfan,

I've had the opportunity to try it on an MD-11, KL671, AMS-YUL. The extra legroom is quite an improvement indeed. It makes a huge difference not to have your knees against the seat in front of you.

At 6', I did not have a problem viewing the IFE screen, it tilted far enough to be comfortable.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

When will this class be bookable ?