Hilton HHonors - Tipping Extortion? Hilton Wangfujing (Beijing)

On a pleasure trip to Beijing to see my son, I arrived at the Hilton Wangfujing by taxi with my backpack and one rollerboard bag. The bellman took the rollerboard from the trunk and escorted me inside and subsequently up to the Exec level for checkin. Once checked in, the bellman took both bags and showed me to my room. At the time, I only had large bills. so I did not tip the bellman.

About 5 minutes later I got a call from someone downstairs, who described themselves with a title I did not pick up on. They asked if the bell person showed me the room, called me by name, etc. Then they asked if I tipped him. I said no, as I only had very large bills. They said thanks and hung up.

So normally I don't avail myself of bell servce, but when I do, I would normally give them a tip. Given these specific circumstances (no small bills and in a country where tipping is not mandatory), I did not feel especially guilty about leaving no tip, until the phone call. Now perhaps they pool tips and did not believe I did not give that bellman a tip, and were confirming his story. But I felt like the phone call was inappropriate, either as a guilt trip or as a means of confirming customer service by the bellman. I believe I will send my thoughts to the GM of the hotel, as I don't believe that this was necessarily a customer friendly move, and certainly do not believe that they would have done anything similar for an Asian customer.

Am I wrong in this assessment? In the end, I went down and got change and tipped the bellman, but I felt squeezed. Maybe it was an innocent followup, but I interpreted it negatively.

Maybe the caller was checking to see if the bellman pocketed the tip?

Maybe the caller was checking to see if the bellman pocketed the tip?

Maybe, but that is an issue between the bellman and coworkers. I would have felt much the same as the OP in this situation. I would also follow-up with the GM and see what the response is.

Please post a follow-up here so we can be nosy and see how it turns out.

Considering the Hiltons in Beijing add 17% to cover service fee and tax, it is reasonable not to tip-besides tipping in China is still pretty unusual, even with cabbies. I occasionally do anyway if the bellman is pleasant and goes a bit beyond.

Will be interested to see how this goes. I have been at Hilton Beijing last few days and they know me well enough not to touch my bags now.:D

Good stay and great service though^

That's strange. I've stayed at the Hilton BJ WFJ and not had such a problem. And when a hotel adds a service charge, I don't ever tip. I would definitely talk with the GM to find out whether that was an official call.

While it would seem that a "service" was provided (regardless of whether it was a 40 lb. suitcase or a skateboard bag), it would appear that a tip would have been appropriate. Having said that, we too have been in situations where we have not had time to get larger bills changed, and sometimes, we have even asked the bellman if they had change and they ALWAYS seem to so that even works out better. But we have done the same thing....get his name (not being sexist..it has never been a female), and when we get change, seek him out (we did this is Barbados and looked for this man for 4 days until we finally found him!).

But more to the point....I think it is very odd to receive a phone call. I also believe they were calling to verify the bellman's statement of not receiving a tip...but geez...must they report their tips after each and every baggage run?

I find that odd and I think it is highly inappropriate--although this now is between you and GM. Who knows if the bellman even knew they made that inappropriate phone call.

Dawn

...but geez...must they report their tips after each and every baggage run?

I'd think so. The money they make on tips must be at least (if not more) than their monthly salaries.

While it would seem that a "service" was provided (regardless of whether it was a 40 lb. suitcase or a skateboard bag), it would appear that a tip would have been appropriate. Having said that, we too have been in situations where we have not had time to get larger bills changed, and sometimes, we have even asked the bellman if they had change and they ALWAYS seem to so that even works out better. But we have done the same thing....get his name (not being sexist..it has never been a female), and when we get change, seek him out (we did this is Barbados and looked for this man for 4 days until we finally found him!).

But more to the point....I think it is very odd to receive a phone call. I also believe they were calling to verify the bellman's statement of not receiving a tip...but geez...must they report their tips after each and every baggage run?

I find that odd and I think it is highly inappropriate--although this now is between you and GM. Who knows if the bellman even knew they made that inappropriate phone call.

Dawn

WHY? Because in YOUR culture, it is expected ... Wrong Approach! Tipping is not part of their culture, and therefore should not be an expecation nor "appropriate" in any instance. Attitudes like yours are why the tipping culture is quickly creeping around the globe -- that is NOT a good thing!

OP - if they had called to ensure you were satisfied with the service, that's one thing, but calling to ask if you tipped, is inappropriate regardless of the situation.

WHY? Because in YOUR culture, it is expected ... Wrong Approach! Tipping is not part of their culture, and therefore should not be an expecation nor "appropriate" in any instance. Attitudes like yours are why the tipping culture is quickly creeping around the globe -- that is NOT a good thing!

OP - if they had called to ensure you were satisfied with the service, that's one thing, but calling to ask if you tipped, is inappropriate regardless of the situation.

Uh, sorry GoingAway....but if the OP actually received a PHONE CALL ASKING IF HE HAD TIPPED, don't point your finger at me. I've never been there yet and if and when I do go, just like every other time, I will research the culture, expectations, which include tipping, and other things we may need to know in order to make our vacation go as smoothly as possible and also to make sure we do not affend anyone.

So you jumped the gun a little on this one....I am not the one that phoned the OP....blame someone else.

Dawn

Tipping for the most part did not and does not exist in china even today. Guess once the horses have left the barn......

Tips in China? In a hotel that makes a 17% "service charge?" And it may have been here they were going to send my bags up immediately - and left them gathering dust in a cart. No way...

But as to the call, I do know of some services, restaurants and hotels in some locations that require pooling the tips, and to retain a tip means discipline. Perhaps it was that innocent - or not. I'd write the GM how the call was perceived, and ask what the purpose was? If it was not innocent, somene needs to receive some feedback that this is inappropriate.

<snip> Now perhaps they pool tips and did not believe I did not give that bellman a tip, and were confirming his story. But I felt like the phone call was inappropriate, either as a guilt trip or as a means of confirming customer service by the bellman. I believe I will send my thoughts to the GM of the hotel, as I don't believe that this was necessarily a customer friendly move, and certainly do not believe that they would have done anything similar for an Asian customer.

Am I wrong in this assessment? In the end, I went down and got change and tipped the bellman, but I felt squeezed. Maybe it was an innocent followup, but I interpreted it negatively.

WHY? Because in YOUR culture, it is expected ... Wrong Approach! Tipping is not part of their culture, and therefore should not be an expecation nor "appropriate" in any instance. Attitudes like yours are why the tipping culture is quickly creeping around the globe -- that is NOT a good thing!

OP - if they had called to ensure you were satisfied with the service, that's one thing, but calling to ask if you tipped, is inappropriate regardless of the situation.

I mostly agree with you except I would argue that at hotel charging a service charge on the room rate etc is already forcing you to pay a pretty hefty mandatory tip so tipping has made it into their "culture" in a much worse way than we have it here.

At least I have a choice here.

Considering the Hiltons in Beijing add 17% to cover service fee and tax, it is reasonable not to tip-besides tipping in China is still pretty unusual, even with cabbies. I occasionally do anyway if the bellman is pleasant and goes a bit beyond.

Will be interested to see how this goes. I have been at Hilton Beijing last few days and they know me well enough not to touch my bags now.:D

Good stay and great service though^

In most Asia countries, not a single dime of those service fee goes to employee as tip, they are just pure revenue for the hotel

while it may not go directly, some of it finds its way to staff through the "system".

http://www.shangri-la.com/en/property/beijing/chinaworld/facts/tipping

is still what the word is for most restaurants in Beijing.

$1-2 for bellboy and 3% in restaurants in Beijing is not unheard of. My Chinese friends DO NOT tip in restaurants although they may round up like I do in Europe. 20 Yuan for bellboy is my standard (when they must touch my bags).

Still, going after a customer for a tip is BAD form.

In most Asia countries, not a single dime of those service fee goes to employee as tip, they are just pure revenue for the hotelAnd how is that the problem of the guest? If I'm staying at a hotel I expect the hotel operator of the establishment has made arrangements for the appropriate level of staffing. That is particularly true when they charge a service charge. I can't stand when everyone working someplace has a hand out looking for money. Calling a room to check on a tip is extremely rude. A response call to the GM is definitely in order.

...
Given these specific circumstances (no small bills and in a country where tipping is not mandatory), I did not feel especially guilty about leaving no tip, until the phone call. Now perhaps they pool tips and did not believe I did not give that bellman a tip, and were confirming his story. But I felt like the phone call was inappropriate, either as a guilt trip or as a means of confirming customer service by the bellman. ...

I guess you are partially right about this. My thought is that they don't pool the tips, but deprive the bellman of a certain portion of the tips every time. For example, you tip the bellman RMB 20. The bellman may just retain RMB 10 or even less, the remaining will be pocketed by so-called "boss", maybe the senior staff or maybe the head of hotel conceige, or both.

The story reminds me of some travel instructions in some Lonely Planet books. It says that when you encounter beggars, don't give them money. Because in some dog-eat-dog world, all the money you give them will be taken away by someone else with violence.

Am I the only one who is confused as to where the "extortion" comes in here?

And how is that the problem of the guest? If I'm staying at a hotel I expect the hotel operator of the establishment has made arrangements for the appropriate level of staffing. That is particularly true when they charge a service charge. I can't stand when everyone working someplace has a hand out looking for money. Calling a room to check on a tip is extremely rude. A response call to the GM is definitely in order.

I don't think the phone was asking for tip, it just a boss to check out some new employees. because tipping is not recommended and not encouraged.

Yes, my use of the word "extortion" is probably extreme, though it did have the effect of making me leave my room. get change and find the guy to give him a tip. I suppose that is my problem and not theirs...perhaps. As for whether they were trying to police their staff, that is the most likely reason, however, they need to do that policing without calling their customers (my opinion).

I have e-mailed the Front Office manager with my comments (the stay was great otherwise and I told them that) and have asked them for a response. Will advise.

Yes, my use of the word "extortion" is probably extreme, though it did have the effect of making me leave my room. get change and find the guy to give him a tip. I suppose that is my problem and not theirs...perhaps. As for whether they were trying to police their staff, that is the most likely reason, however, they need to do that policing without calling their customers (my opinion). I have e-mailed the Front Office manager with my comments (the stay was great otherwise and I told them that) and have asked them for a response. Will advise.

I cant imagine anyone doing this for a tip. I view a tip as totally voluntary and will never tip if it is suggested by wording or writing in any manner.

MisterNice

"I don't think the phone was asking for tip, it just a boss to check out some new employees. because tipping is not recommended and not encouraged."

This sounds more plausible as an explanation to me. The OP doesn't really say that he was extorted to tip only that they asked if he did tip. More info needed. I certainly wouldn't be upset given this potentially new context.

I don't think the phone was asking for tip, it just a boss to check out some new employees. because tipping is not recommended and not encouraged.

I am gonna side with this thought as well. Bizarre nonetheless.

Tipping is not part of their culture, and therefore should not be an expecation nor "appropriate" in any instance.
I wonder if they expect the tip since it is part of the travelers home culture even though it is inappropriate in local culture and not figured in the wages?

I don't think the phone was asking for tip, it just a boss to check out some new employees. because tipping is not recommended and not encouraged.

I don't buy this argument. If that were true, then the boss would have identified himself and stated the reason for the call - e.g. "Tipping is not recommended or encouraged by this hotel. I am checking if X asked for a tip."

Maybe the caller was checking to see if the bellman pocketed the tip?

Remove the word "maybe" and you are correct.

Well, I got a quick response via email. The Front Office manager apologized, though he/she was not specific about the details of my concern. It was clear that he/she read my email, but there was nothing saying that the staff or bell staff management was instructed specifically about customer contact about tipping. I followed up and just reiterated that I believed that most customers would not appreciate a phone call from hotel staff asking about tips.

It's done as far as i am concerned, I appreciate that many here seemed to be of the same mindset as me. I am very sure that the call was not sinister, and was simply an attempt to police tips received by local staff. Most of us here seem to think that is inappropriate and my main goal was to communicate this to their management. I certainly will return to the Hilton Wangfujing... assuming my price and convenience requirements are met.

I have stayed at this property several times since its opened and have had no such problem. I would strongly suggest that you phone downstairs and ask for Sandra and explain the situation to her.