Midwest Airlines Midwest Miles - Couple of onboard things

(1) Midwest recently started serving on MKE-FNT, a route I fly pretty frequently. Cookies, water and milk were the only options, and my most recent flight the other day (we had 46 onboard) but the F/A got through the cabin with time to spare. I was always a little peeved that MKE-FNT didn't get inflight since MKE-DTW does on NW, but it appears to have changed.

(2) The E135's don't have ovens, and so they are testing a room-temperature cookie. My E135 trips so far have all been to/from GRR (no inflight) but coworkers just did IND this week back and forth. The cookies were still loose on a tray to serve (not pre-wrapped cellophane). They were described to me as good, but not as good a warm -- similar to getting the standard warmed cookie after it was mostly cooled.

The E170 and E190 have ovens....anybody know about the Frontier 319s?

[QUOTE=knope2001;12366243
The E170 and E190 have ovens....anybody know about the Frontier 319s?[/QUOTE]

The Frontier Airbus jets do have ovens installed in the forward galleys.

It sounds like Republic has been doing a better job with onboard service lately. Unfortunately, I've had the opposite experience on some recent Midwest mainline flights. Here's a few things that have happened on my flights:

1) On the 4:05 pm flight to LGA, the flight attendants never even finished meal/beverage service. Once we began our initial decent into New York, one of the flight attendants made an announcement saying that they needed to prepare the cabin for landing and made a quick apology for not getting any food/drinks to the passengers in the back. They quickly came out with the cookies and told everyone to eat fast. There was no second beverage service offered.

2) During the 7:00 am LGA-MKE flight, no meals were available for sale (this must be recent change as I've purchased breakfast on this flight before). During beverage service, I asked for coffee and o.j. The flight attendant told me that normally they don't allow passengers to have two beverages during the first round of service. Huh? It's a good thing I asked because the second round never occurred.

3) The early evening MKE-DCA flight had no meals loaded. I wasn't going to purchase one, but there were more than a few unhappy customers.

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. Perhaps it was nothing more than bad flight crews and some catering screw-ups. However, I was very surprised to experience this on Midwest metal.

Although unrelated, it was interesting to see all of the Signature Seats full on my recent 717 flights (even with empty seats in the back).

It sounds like Republic has been doing a better job with onboard service lately. Unfortunately, I've had the opposite experience on some recent Midwest mainline flights. Here's a few things that have happened on my flights:

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. Perhaps it was nothing more than bad flight crews and some catering screw-ups. However, I was very surprised to experience this on Midwest metal.

Critics always admonish Republic's younger, inexperienced crews, who do not offer the "best care in the air" provided by longtime YX employees.

I hope that your service, or lack thereof, was atypical and not a reflection of YX employees who have lost their enthusiasm and dedication to service, due to upcoming additional furloughs. It may be that their hearts are just not in it right now, not knowing what the future holds for them.

The Frontier Airbus jets do have ovens installed in the forward galleys.

It sounds like Republic has been doing a better job with onboard service lately. Unfortunately, I've had the opposite experience on some recent Midwest mainline flights. Here's a few things that have happened on my flights:

1) On the 4:05 pm flight to LGA, the flight attendants never even finished meal/beverage service. Once we began our initial decent into New York, one of the flight attendants made an announcement saying that they needed to prepare the cabin for landing and made a quick apology for not getting any food/drinks to the passengers in the back. They quickly came out with the cookies and told everyone to eat fast. There was no second beverage service offered.

2) During the 7:00 am LGA-MKE flight, no meals were available for sale (this must be recent change as I've purchased breakfast on this flight before). During beverage service, I asked for coffee and o.j. The flight attendant told me that normally they don't allow passengers to have two beverages during the first round of service. Huh? It's a good thing I asked because the second round never occurred.

3) The early evening MKE-DCA flight had no meals loaded. I wasn't going to purchase one, but there were more than a few unhappy customers.

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. Perhaps it was nothing more than bad flight crews and some catering screw-ups. However, I was very surprised to experience this on Midwest metal.
.

From what I have been told is that Republic will not be providing meals on flights only buy on board snacks as well as the cookies and beverages. They are following Frontiers example of inflight services.
I am not sure when this will be in full effect but you should expect no meals on any Midwest flight, especially after the B717's leave.
I hope they change their mind or try something else out in regards to the meals, it does add a little different experience and one I think they should keep.

Critics always admonish Republic's younger, inexperienced crews, who do not offer the "best care in the air" provided by longtime YX employees.

I hope that your service, or lack thereof, was atypical and not a reflection of YX employees who have lost their enthusiasm and dedication to service, due to upcoming additional furloughs. It may be that their hearts are just not in it right now, not knowing what the future holds for them.

My Phoenix flight a couples of weeks ago had less then stellar service provided by Midwest crews. Only once through the cabin at the beginning of the flight and the crew was not seen again until they needed to collect trash at the end of the flight. The return flight (different crew) was a different story, beverage service twice and the inflight crew was visible the entire flight making multiple trips through the cabin.
I think it depends if you catch them on a good day.

It sounds like Republic has been doing a better job with onboard service lately.

The E170 service has improved a great deal over last year, at least in my anecdotal experience. Oddly enough, when Skywest first started it always felt to me like those F/A were oddballs and didn't quite "get it", but the last several Skywest flights I've had had excellent service. Sad to see those crews go.

As for the onboard messups on the 717 catering, I can understand...a bit...things going wrong at the kickoff (morning origin) oustations because they cater there. But not having meals for sale out of Milwaukee? Unless it's one of those total chaos days at MKE where everything is delayed and swapped, there's no good excuse for that.

Neither is there an excuse for only begrudgingly offering two different liquids on a beverage pass like that, especially one where they don't have meals.

I've had good luck with service from 717 F/A in spite of the upheaval, but I do wonder how they'll hold up these last few months.

As for the onboard messups on the 717 catering, I can understand...a bit...things going wrong at the kickoff (morning origin) oustations because they cater there. But not having meals for sale out of Milwaukee? Unless it's one of those total chaos days at MKE where everything is delayed and swapped, there's no good excuse for that.



I agree with what you're saying, expect that Best Care Cuisine has traditionally been for sale on the morning origin flights from BOS, LGA, and DCA. From what I was told a year or so ago, Midwest had storage locations for the food at these stations. Midwest would do round-trip catering from MKE and the food would sit in coolers overnight.

While this is hardly scientific, I've asked some friends that take the 7:00 am LGA-MKE flight on a somewhat regular basis and they've reported that no food has been offered for sale for the last year or so. I'm not sure what's happened.

As for the MKE-DCA flight with no meals, things seemed relatively calm at MKE that day. One beverage service and cookies. The flight attendants were too busy reading People and US Weekly in the galley. Behavior like this is something I'd fully expect on United, not Midwest.

Maybe I was just unlucky and got some bad crews.

Everyone expected the service remain the same on Midwest Metal? I know that the crews onboard those aircraft should remain professional, but you have to remember that in a few months they will no longer work for the company. Many that are left are high senority employees who have been with the company 15 plus years. Once again, not the way it should be, but do you really blame them? They have given the customer a lot over the years and are now going to be replaced by Republic crews. I wish Republic well, but they have not treated the remaining employees very well. It will be interesting to see if they will be more successful in making the new YX better then it was.

Everyone expected the service remain the same on Midwest Metal? I know that the crews onboard those aircraft should remain professional, but you have to remember that in a few months they will no longer work for the company.
My last Midwest flight was a few weeks ago, MKE-DCA on a 717. The service was fine with meals and a second beverage offered on the way back through the cabin. Didn't see the FAs a lot following the service though.

The forward flight attendant, upon landing at DCA, in her rollout announcement added, "On behalf of the remaining Midwest Airlines employees, thank you for flying..." There's a good chance that will be my last 717 flight and I will miss the seats and employees. Service on my few E170 flights has been decent in recent months.

Not much a choice left with Midwest. The few remaining Midwest flight crews must be extremely distracted with their twenty years plus careers coming to an end. It gets even worse if you fly with a Republic crew who are the most inexperienced main line pilots in the United States. I am glad Airtran and Delta are matching fares in Milwaukee. There really isn't any reason to fly "Midwest" anymore. What a sad ending to a truly great airline. The only thing left of Midwest is the blue paint.

It gets even worse if you fly with a Republic crew who are the most inexperienced main line pilots in the United States.

Do you have any proof of this? I am 100% sure that you are talking out your tukus on that one. Before you try to run my pilot group through the mud with your unfounded rhetoric you better do some research because you are wrong.

a Republic crew who are the most inexperienced main line pilots in the United States.

Do you or anyone else who posts regularly on Midwest have the data on this? As a passenger, I'd be curious to know the details, since I fly often and used to be a private pilot, so I know the importance of experience, flying regularly, and overall safety.

I've flown on Midwest Airlines, and I've flown on Midwest Connect via Skyway and Republic. While I'd say the new Midwest of the last year or so is no longer "The Best Care in the Air," I'd say they are still good care in the air. While I no longer go out of my way to fly Midwest, I consider them alongside my other options, usually Skyteam-related, when I book flights, and usually choose based on convenience.

If we know something about the safety culture of Republic, it would be helpful. What do we know about experience? Current flying hours? (different from experience but also important) Maintenance? Training? Recruitment?

There are a lot of people on this forum who have way more information than I do, and I'm sure many like me would love to know more about Republic in this regard.

Since StraightTalker made the above accusation, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt to have a chance to back it up, but I think one of our other insiders who has access to good data may have to come to the rescue on this.

I'm going to try to move on from the rhetoric about the pilots. They are experienced and well-trained. The stats prove that the most dangerous part of any airline trip is definitely the drive to the airport.

Back on the topic at hand here...

It's disappointing that the in-flight service on YX, especially mainline, is getting so hit-and-miss these days. I think it's completely unacceptable that they couldn't make it all the way to the back of the cabin on MKE-LGA. What were they doing that took up all that time?

Looking ahead, if indeed Republic does take the meals away, it's one less thing that will differentiate the airline. It really won't be much different than the other carriers at that point, other than the cookies. The cookies are a nice touch, but are they really that big of a deal? Are people making flight bookings based on whether they get a free cookie or two? Really?!?

I think the Best Care Cuisine was a great product that differentiated YX from the competition, as well as the signature seats. It's too bad that the realities of the industry forced them to cut back somewhat on the premium seating. If Best Care Cuisine is indeed on the way out, I would hope the Republic would reconsider that decision. I think YX was making money from that service. The food tasted great and it is a great concept to partner with a Milwaukee restaurant, but the execution was poor and, in my experience, they ran out nearly all the time, leaving many passengers hungry...even when they were only halfway through the service!

Hopefully, Republic will come up with some better ideas moving forward. The industry is more competitive than ever, and MKE will be one of the most competitive airports in the U.S. over the next year. Republic should be proactive in maintaining their loyal customers with so many choices at MKE right now.

I have to add my 2 cents to this conversation...There is more to "Best Care" moniker than what the F/A's do in the air....Over the last couple of weeks I have had some of the best ticket/gate/phone service from the employees of Midwest/Republic.

1. I posted this on an individual thread, but the situation I went through with my trip to Canada where I was re-booked on Air Canada b/c Midwest discontinued service and ran into problems when Air Canada did not honor the ticket on our return, was probably a nightmare for the woman that got my call that morning...While my schedule was completely messed up, it was resolved in a timely manner and professionally...This was after Republic took over.
2. Now I travel to/from Boston every week, so I know many of the agents in Boston, but they go out of their way to help you out no matter who you are...And it didnt change when Republic stepped in.

As with any business, I am sure we see it in our daily jobs, consistency is a problem...The ideal situation is setting a standard and getting everyone to follow that standard...defects happen and faith has to be placed in this set of management that they have set a high standard and they will be monitoring their crews to make sure they are meeting that standard. Whether Republic's standard is what we have experienced from the great people that have been a part of Midwest Airlines, we will come to find out in the coming months and years....Feedback needs to be given and hopefully corrections will be made.

As with any business, I am sure we see it in our daily jobs, consistency is a problem...The ideal situation is setting a standard and getting everyone to follow that standard...defects happen and faith has to be placed in this set of management that they have set a high standard and they will be monitoring their crews to make sure they are meeting that standard. Whether Republic's standard is what we have experienced from the great people that have been a part of Midwest Airlines, we will come to find out in the coming months and years....Feedback needs to be given and hopefully corrections will be made.

I totally agree, though the one time I did complain, a couple of years ago, I received a form letter response regarding a Midwest Connect problem. I subsequently met and spoke with a top manager, who agreed that it was an inappropriate, canned response and asked that I contact him, if I have any other concerns.

Posted on the YX site:

Be Responsive to Customer Complaints
Midwest will respond to customer compliments, complaints, comments and inquiries within 30 business days. Our goal is satisfied, loyal customers, and we make every attempt to resolve any concerns to the customer’s satisfaction. We further understand that flight irregularities create anxiety and frustration for our customers, and train our employees in service recovery techniques. Midwest also has a number of proactive service recovery initiatives underway to allow employees to provide customers with immediate recovery at the time of a service failure. Midwest will respond to customer compliments, complaints, comments and inquiries within 30 business days. Customers may call Midwest Customer Relations at 800-452-2022 or write Customer Relations, Midwest Airlines, 6744 S. Howell Ave., HQ-8, Oak Creek, WI 53154.

I have to add my 2 cents to this conversation...There is more to "Best Care" moniker than what the F/A's do in the air....Over the last couple of weeks I have had some of the best ticket/gate/phone service from the employees of Midwest/Republic.

1. I posted this on an individual thread, but the situation I went through with my trip to Canada where I was re-booked on Air Canada b/c Midwest discontinued service and ran into problems when Air Canada did not honor the ticket on our return, was probably a nightmare for the woman that got my call that morning...While my schedule was completely messed up, it was resolved in a timely manner and professionally...This was after Republic took over.
2. Now I travel to/from Boston every week, so I know many of the agents in Boston, but they go out of their way to help you out no matter who you are...And it didnt change when Republic stepped in.

As with any business, I am sure we see it in our daily jobs, consistency is a problem...The ideal situation is setting a standard and getting everyone to follow that standard...defects happen and faith has to be placed in this set of management that they have set a high standard and they will be monitoring their crews to make sure they are meeting that standard. Whether Republic's standard is what we have experienced from the great people that have been a part of Midwest Airlines, we will come to find out in the coming months and years....Feedback needs to be given and hopefully corrections will be made.

It's great to hear that you are experiencing good customer service from the Midwest gate agents and customer service representatives. Fortunately, those jobs are being largely preserved under Republic ownership. I think the poor performance is coming from the in-flight crews, who will likely be out of work within the nexdt few months. That's unfortunate. It's got to be rough knowing that you'll soon be looking for a job at a time when so many others are also seeking jobs. I'm sure some of them will apply with Rebublic knowing that it's better to have a job than none at all, buit that's little consolation for employees who have a lot of seniority and feel betrayed.

It gets even worse if you fly with a Republic crew who are the most inexperienced main line pilots in the United States. I am glad Airtran and Delta are matching fares in Milwaukee.

You really should re-register with FT and change your log-in name to Trash Talker. Coming onto a board once in a while and saying things that have no basis in reality or truth as you periodically do here, serves no purpose.

Do you have any proof of this? I am 100% sure that you are talking out your tukus on that one. Before you try to run my pilot group through the mud with your unfounded rhetoric you better do some research because you are wrong.




Here's some proof ...

Average Republic Co-Pilot 2 yrs, Midwest Co-Pilot 10 yrs airline experience

Average Republic Captain 6 yrs, Midwest Captain 18 yrs airline experience

Republic most junior Captain 3 yrs, Midwest most junior Captain 10 yrs

The fact is Republic pilots are very inexperienced. When it comes to abnormal operations like TRW, Icing, High winds, Flight delays, Engine failures, Bird strikes ... would you like experienced pilots like US Airway-LGA flight or inexperienced like the Continental-BUF flight?

In the last five (5) years all fatal US airline accidents have been at the hands of regional airline pilots. Experienced Co-Pilot or Captain will save lifes.

Experienced Co-Pilot or Captain will save lifes.

Really?

There have been plenty of accidents caused by very experienced pilots. As I'm sure you're well aware, the worst aviation disaster in history was caused by the chief pilot (and most experienced) for KLM.

Your "proof" really doesn't prove anything.

Here's some proof ...

Average Republic Co-Pilot 2 yrs, Midwest Co-Pilot 10 yrs airline experience

Average Republic Captain 6 yrs, Midwest Captain 18 yrs airline experience

Republic most junior Captain 3 yrs, Midwest most junior Captain 10 yrs

The fact is Republic pilots are very inexperienced. When it comes to abnormal operations like TRW, Icing, High winds, Flight delays, Engine failures, Bird strikes ... would you like experienced pilots like US Airway-LGA flight or inexperienced like the Continental-BUF flight?

In the last five (5) years all fatal US airline accidents have been at the hands of regional airline pilots. Experienced Co-Pilot or Captain will save lifes.

The only thing that you have proven is how long the pilots have been at Republic. It says nothing of their previous experience from other airlines or military. So many of our pilots are here because of furlough from mainline carriers or retirement from military life. Some people need to get it through their heads that not everyone wants to work for a big legacy carrier and fly big planes. Some pilots ae perfectly happy flying an E170 for the next 20 years and have a life with there family.


Here something that FTers can do. Next time your on one of those big planes that you all think have very experience pilots ask them how many hours they work a month. How many days off they have. How much time they get to spend with there families. I can tell you that at a regional like Republic most pilots are getting 14-16 days off a month an work about 85-90 flight hours. I know for a fact that US mainline is running about 9 years on reserve for both Captains and FO. To hold weekends off they have to have about 20 years in. To hold commutable trips its above 25 years but have to work weekends. US is the extreme but my point is its not all sunshine and lollipops at a legacy even if the pay is good or just more. Oh yeah and AA just won in court saying that the pilots can't refuse overtime... I feel safer already...


Now how about those mainline F/A's. US Airways reserve is running upwards of 15 years, 25 for international and in november international reserve will be over 30 depending on the new schedule. UA is running about 8 years but will turn to 10-12 in November. DL the lower 75% or so has reserve in most bases. NW was running 15 years to hold a DC9 line (ewwwww). CO was at around 5-8 years on reserve. I spent 3 months on reserve and make just as much as they do and have 15 days off a month. Current reserve at RAH is 7 months...

In the last five (5) years all fatal US airline accidents have been at the hands of regional airline pilots.

Not sure where you came up with that, but that's not true.

Really?

There have been plenty of accidents caused by very experienced pilots. As I'm sure you're well aware, the worst aviation disaster in history was caused by the chief pilot (and most experienced) for KLM.

Your "proof" really doesn't prove anything.


You use an example from 30 years ago???

It is only a fact of where fatal accidents have occurred in the US for the past 5+ years. I hope you don't use the same logic flying airplanes or picking a surgeon.

Not sure where you came up with that, but that's not true.

I could be wrong.

Name a fatal accident in the US by a major in the last 5 years. During the same time frame how many fatal regional airline accidents.

01/08/03 CHARLOTTE, NC US AIRWAYS EXPRESS Beech 1900 19 0

10/19/04 KIRKSVILLE, MO CORPORATE AIRLINES British Aerospace Jetstream 32 11 2
12/19/05 MIAMI, FL CHALKS OCEAN AIRWAYS Grumman G-73T 18 0
08/27/06 LEXINGTON, KY COMAIR Bombardier CRJ-100 47 0
02/12/09 CLARENCE, NY COLGAN AIR Bombardier DHC-8 45 0

I could be wrong.

Name a fatal accident in the US by a major in the last 5 years. During the same time frame how many fatal regional airline accidents.

The Southwest plane at MDW in 2005. There are so few aircraft accidents it's near impossible to draw conclusions such as "flying regionals is unsafe."

You use an example from 30 years ago???

It is only a fact of where fatal accidents have occurred in the US for the past 5+ years. I hope you don't use the same logic flying airplanes or picking a surgeon.

I used the KLM example because it completely debunks what you were trying to "prove." You claimed that only mainline pilots save lives, but then want to dismiss the fact that the worst aviation disaster in history was caused by the most experienced pilot at KLM.

I used the KLM example because it completely debunks what you were trying to "prove." You claimed that only mainline pilots save lives, but then want to dismiss the fact that the worst aviation disaster in history was caused by the most experienced pilot at KLM.

Thanks for injecting some logic into this argument.

Some on this board neglect the fact that many mainline pilots at one time flew for regionals. After all, every pilot has to start somewhere and build their experience. Every pilot, whether they are mainline or regional, at one time weren't pilots. They all had to take that first flight, go through the training process and develop their skills to become airline pilots.

Those who continue to pontificate on this regional vs. mainline debate were likely laid off or demoted by a mainline carrier, possible Midwest. It's unfortunate that the industry has not been kind to these individuals, but I think it is unfair to criticize regional pilots who are just trying to make a living for themselves and their families. Regional pilots are not evil, nor do they fly in an unsafe manner. They all want to safely return home to their families at the end of the day, just like the mainline pilots do.

I have absolutely no qualms about flying regionals, but it is interesting that Aluminumdriver a United pilot that posts quite a bit on the United board will not fly as a passenger on UAX unless he absolutely must: Post # 2428 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileage-plus/774918-united-pilot-q-thread-162.html) .

It's unfortunate that the industry has not been kind to these individuals, but I think it is unfair to criticize regional pilots who are just trying to make a living for themselves and their families. Regional pilots are not evil, nor do they fly in an unsafe manner. They all want to safely return home to their families at the end of the day, just like the mainline pilots do.

* However, no one has disputed N735's facts that Republic's pilots have less experience than Midwest's

Average Republic Co-Pilot 2 yrs, Midwest Co-Pilot 10 yrs airline experience

Average Republic Captain 6 yrs, Midwest Captain 18 yrs airline experience

Republic most junior Captain 3 yrs, Midwest most junior Captain 10 yrs.

N735 -

I can see were you want to go with this:

Your premise is: Less experienced pilots are less able to handle in-flight emergencies (less capable)
2) Republic pilots are less experienced than Midwest pilots
3) Republic pilots will provide a less safe experience than Midwest pilots.

But you haven't proved your premise. With this crowd you need the hard data.

But you haven't proved your premise. With this crowd you need the hard data.

Welcome Back hazelrah. :)

You are right with the hard data remark. I would like to know the NTSB official report on why the accidents happened. I know the Colgan Air accident was because of multiple reasons. Pilot error, pilot fatigue and icing of the wings to name a few. How about the others?

Welcome Back hazelrah. :)

You are right with the hard data remark. I would like to know the NTSB official report on why the accidents happened. I know the Colgan Air accident was because of multiple reasons. Pilot error, pilot fatigue and icing of the wings to name a few. How about the others?

Thank you FlyYX :D

My observation is that there are good regionals, and less good regionals. The less good, I won't mention. I have always been impressed by Mesaba. what I heard/observed as a layperson was that Mesaba has a rigrouos training,certification, and recertification program. So I think that there are good regionals.

As to the Colgan incident I think that at least in the co-pilots case it appeared pilot fatigue and illness might have been a factor. First, she wasn't paid a living wage and therefore she had to live with her parents and endure a long red-eye commute, Second, that she was ill and felt compelled to report anyway. Sleep deprivation really blunts performance, this is scientific and demonstrable.

I've been quiet waiting some news on the Republic pilots E190 negotiation. Perhaps it will go quietly, perhaps the Republic pilots will grow a spine :D

* However, no one has disputed N735's facts that Republic's pilots have less experience than Midwest's

Yes, they have less experience, but does that make them less safe? Has Republic had any fatal accidents in its history? Midwest mainline has had one, but that was back in 1985.

Do you ask for the credentials of airlines pilots before each flight? Do you ask for credentials before getting into a taxi or shuttle bus? Do you do background checks on every driver on the freeway before getting on the entrance ramp? Do you do a health inspection before eating in a restaurant? Ya know, the argument could be made that food service employees at McDonald's might have less experience than those at Ruth's Chris. Don't eat at dinky little fast food joints....they dno't have the experience of the big boys...you might be killed!

But, seriously here folks. Those who live in fear will never enjoy life.

It's time that we all grow up and move on to more useful discussions.

Thanks for injecting some logic into this argument.

Some on this board neglect the fact that many mainline pilots at one time flew for regionals. After all, every pilot has to start somewhere and build their experience. Every pilot, whether they are mainline or regional, at one time weren't pilots. They all had to take that first flight, go through the training process and develop their skills to become airline pilots.

Those who continue to pontificate on this regional vs. mainline debate were likely laid off or demoted by a mainline carrier, possible Midwest. It's unfortunate that the industry has not been kind to these individuals, but I think it is unfair to criticize regional pilots who are just trying to make a living for themselves and their families. Regional pilots are not evil, nor do they fly in an unsafe manner. They all want to safely return home to their families at the end of the day, just like the mainline pilots do.



True, but with the growth of regional jets and the Walmart effect in the airline industry things are changing.

It use to be regional airline pilots were hired with 2500 hours, now they only have 600 hours. I worked for a regional that hired 300 hr pilots and they become a Captain with only 1500 hr. Most people can't understand the difference between a Captain that has flown 3-4 winters of icing, slick runways, aircraft de-icing, ... and the Captain that has only flown one winter plus he/she has a 600 hr first officer.

One can down play it, but the facts show a trend.

I would just add that fatal aircraft accidents are mathematically RARE events. When you consider how many flights are flown per day in the US, there are very, very, very few fatal accidents. With rare events, it is easy to truncate the time period (e.g. five years) and "prove" a point. However, if we broaden the time horizon to, say, ten years, we might be able to "prove" the opposite.