Religious Travelers - Kosher Food for Travelers in Modern Times

I do find this whole kosher meal business curious/laughable. Since when was it said in ancient times that a meal that has been subject to months of modern deep freezing is deemed 'kosher' ?

I do find this whole kosher meal business curious/laughable. Since when was it said in ancient times that a meal that has been subject to months of modern deep freezing is deemed 'kosher' ?

Where has anyone contended that long-term freezing has any impact on whether or not food is kosher?

Where has anyone contended that long-term freezing has any impact on whether or not food is kosher?

It's bizarre that the whole deal follows ancient lore, doesn't allow a speck of regular food near it for fear of becoming de-kosherised yet it's perfectly ok to go through all these modern conservation methods.

It's bizarre that the whole deal follows ancient lore, doesn't allow a speck of regular food near it for fear of becoming de-kosherised yet it's perfectly ok to go through all these modern conservation methods.

That is not at all bizarre. If, for example, pork was unkosher 3000 years ago how could modern conservation methods possibly make it kosher today? At the best, and with the most theoretically perfect methods of food preservation, the pork would not change in the least -- for good or for bad -- while being stored.

That is not at all bizarre. If, for example, pork was unkosher 3000 years ago how could modern conservation methods possibly make it kosher today? At the best, and with the most theoretically perfect methods of food preservation, the pork would not change in the least -- for good or for bad -- while being stored.

So given you can now eat year old beef now that you couldn't 3000 years ago due to modern techniques, why given similar techniques can you not eat porc or shellfish that in ancient times would have been spoilt in hours and save everyone a whole lot of trouble and expense ?

So given you can now eat year old beef now that you couldn't 3000 years ago due to modern techniques, why given similar techniques can you not eat porc or shellfish that in ancient times would have been spoilt in hours and save everyone a whole lot of trouble and expense ?

Beef is not, in itself unkosher (although certain parts of the cow are and it can be made unkosher in a variety of different ways). Pork is unkosher, no matter how fresh it is.

I don't see any logic at all in an argument which says that "Pork is not kosher. Modern preservation techniques can keep it unchanged. Therefore pork, today, is kosher."

Beef is not, in itself unkosher (although certain parts of the cow are and it can be made unkosher in a variety of different ways). Pork is unkosher, no matter how fresh it is.

I don't see any logic at all in an argument which says that "Pork is not kosher. Modern preservation techniques can keep it unchanged. Therefore pork, today, is kosher."

I agree it is not my contention nor logical. But why is it logical that pork (or this or that or whatever) is not kosher ? I get that pre-refrigeration pork or prawns would quickly be dodgy, so probably not a bad rule to avoid them back in the day; but that is not the case now so why avoid them?

I agree it is not my contention nor logical. But why is it logical that pork (or this or that or whatever) is not kosher ? I get that pre-refrigeration pork or prawns would quickly be dodgy, so probably not a bad rule to avoid them back in the day; but that is not the case now so why avoid them?

I do not keep kosher, and love a good pork chop, but my cardiologist (who is not Jewish) tells me that I should become kosher. Not only is pork extremely fatty but any combination of meat and dairy is unhealthy for your cholesterol level.

Not only is pork extremely fatty but any combination of meat and dairy is unhealthy for your cholesterol level.

Not to mention that whipped cream over bacon is pretty disgusting :)

Not to mention that whipped cream over bacon is pretty disgusting :)

Not exactly whipped cream, but I'm thinking many people in and around Portland would disagree (http://www.baconunwrapped.com/2007/10/maple-bacon-doughnut.html).

I agree it is not my contention nor logical. But why is it logical that pork (or this or that or whatever) is not kosher ? I get that pre-refrigeration pork or prawns would quickly be dodgy, so probably not a bad rule to avoid them back in the day; but that is not the case now so why avoid them?

You are talking about religious beliefs and rules... You can pick ANY religion and ask if their rules are logical...

Why no Pork for Jews?
Why no Pork or Alcohol for Muslims?
Why no sex/marriage for Catholic priests?
Why no meat for strict Hindus?

etc etc...

An airline (Delta in this case) doesn't have to understand or agree or endorse a religious belief to try to cater to customers by offering special religious meals...they do it because it is good business...

I am not Jewish but a Muslim. However, I think Jews would agree with me that pork was not forbidden merely because it could not be kept in the conditions at the time. God forbid pork and did not give a reason. Therefore pork may have many problems that perhaps science has not even discovered yet.

So arguing about modern refrigeration methods, or that pork can be rendered safe by injecting with nitrates and nitrites makes no difference. When pork is forbidden by God then no argument about preservation or current scientific theory can negate this.

Anyone who follows another faith or none at all is free to make up their own minds.

I agree it is not my contention nor logical. But why is it logical that pork (or this or that or whatever) is not kosher ? I get that pre-refrigeration pork or prawns would quickly be dodgy, so probably not a bad rule to avoid them back in the day; but that is not the case now so why avoid them?

Religion logical, LOL.

Food is Kosher or Non-Kosher, because it is clearly spelled out in Leviticus.
You either choose to follow those rules, or you don't. Personally, I have equal respect for Jews who follow or don't follow the rules.

It's basically based on biblical thought, not on refrigeration or "logical" science.

Animals that may not be eaten

Of the "beasts of the earth" (which basically refers to land mammals with the exception of swarming rodents), you may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud. Lev. 11:3; Deut. 14:6. Any land mammal that does not have both of these qualities is forbidden. The Torah specifies that the camel, the rock badger, the hare and the pig are not kosher because each lacks one of these two qualifications. Sheep, cattle, goats, deer and bison are kosher.

Of the things that are in the waters, you may eat anything that has fins and scales. Lev. 11:9; Deut. 14:9. Thus, shellfish such as lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden. Fish like tuna, carp, salmon and herring are all permitted.

For birds, the criteria is less clear. The Torah provides a list of forbidden birds (Lev. 11:13-19; Deut. 14:11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden. All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction. Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks and turkeys. However, some people avoid turkey, because it is not mentioned in the Torah, leaving room for doubt.

Of the "winged swarming things" (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Lev. 11:22), but the Sages are no longer certain which ones they are, so all have been forbidden. There are communities that have a tradition about what species are permitted, and in those communities some insects are eaten.

Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden. Lev. 11:29-30, 42-43.

I agree it is not my contention nor logical. But why is it logical that pork (or this or that or whatever) is not kosher ? I get that pre-refrigeration pork or prawns would quickly be dodgy, so probably not a bad rule to avoid them back in the day; but that is not the case now so why avoid them?

It's not based on logic. Food that is unkosher in not unkosher because it'd be hard to keep it fresh back in the day. It's unkosher because God said so. Why should anything that is frozen, freezedried, long life change that?

g

It's not based on logic...............
g

I'd say it is based on logic but perhaps not entirely obvious or logical at the moment to humans with our limited knowledge of science and the universe.

A thread that begins by describing a religion's and many of its adherents' practices as "laughable" and "bizarre," is not a thread that meets the long-standing FlyerTalk commitment to (and TOS concerning!) "respecting our diversity," and it certainly is not an appropriate thread for the "Religious Travelers" forum.

If someone wants to discuss kosher practices in a respectful, civil, non-derogatory way, may I refer you to OMNI/PR.

Thank you.

cblaisd
Senior Moderator