Airlines of India - Jet airways strike

I'm flying next week YYZ-BRU on JEt (for first time) then connecting to TXL on Brussels Airlines.

Should I be worried about this strike? I'm flying in Premiere and was looking forward to Jet!

I'm flying next week YYZ-BRU on JEt (for first time) then connecting to TXL on Brussels Airlines.

Should I be worried about this strike? I'm flying in Premiere and was looking forward to Jet!The intercontinentals will be the least affected, as Jet would want to keep you guys happy!

They even (reportedly) flew the MAA-BRU segment under 10 hours, just so that they did not need to carry the third pilot on board, as per regulations.

The intercontinentals will be the least affected, as Jet would want to keep you guys happy!

They even (reportedly) flew the MAA-BRU segment under 10 hours, just so that they did not need to carry the third pilot on board, as per regulations.

May not be entirely correct: http://www.jetairways.com/EN/IN/Uploads/PDF/Flight_Update10Sept1305.pdf

According to this, JFK/EWR/BRU are among those affected...:mad:

May not be entirely correct: http://www.jetairways.com/EN/IN/Uploads/PDF/Flight_Update10Sept1305.pdf

According to this, JFK/EWR/BRU are among those affected...:mad:Seriously????!!!

This is incredible! We should rally against these radical pilots, who are behaving like *typical* characters we have to deal with domestically!! :mad:

They really suck - they can't even land a plane properly!! :eek:

Edited to Add: YYZ is still okay, apparently - as of now!

Seriously????!!! ...

YYZ is still okay, apparently - as of now!

Seems to be the one of the very few unaffected foreign destinations for 9W. Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok, Dhaka, most ME destinations, and even London. I think because of the stopover at BRU, the pilots used on the BRU-YYZ route are different, and therefore that leg to YYZ may not be affected.

:confused: I could be wrong about this, but I remember someone telling me a while back that there's some rule about the nationality of pilots used on Canadian runs, which doesn't apply to UK or USA.

Seems to be the one of the very few unaffected foreign destinations for 9W. Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok, Dhaka, most ME destinations, and even London. I think because of the stopover at BRU, the pilots used on the BRU-YYZ route are different, and therefore that leg to YYZ may not be affected.

:confused: I could be wrong about this, but I remember someone telling me a while back that there's some rule about the nationality of pilots used on Canadian runs, which doesn't apply to UK or USA.I say we rally against these bloody pilots who are trying to ruin the airline!! :mad:

I say we rally against these bloody pilots who are trying to ruin the airline!! :mad:
If you're on twitter, check out the post by vir sanghvi (can't remember which)...says, quite correctly, that ppl choose airlines depending on service, food, amenities, baggage handling, etc...and that nobody really has chosen an airline because of its pilots! also makes a telling point on pilot salaries. he also says IC pilots (one of whom he chatted with yesterday) says they're not even paid their allowances, yet the continue to fly... never thought I would link IC and "commitment", but seems I might have been wrong and parochial about that one.

but seems I might have been wrong and parochial about that one.Well, I think that Jet should start poaching, but these guys are unionized too, I understand...get the expats back!

(One just has to see the sad state of affairs at SK - buggers make 2-3x the market rate for Scandinavian pilots - and then they are complaining about their company when I speak to them...I was speaking to a Cimber (a Danish airline with Scandinavian/European routes) 737 pilot, who makes much less, not complaining - while flying on board (the same) an SK flight as the SK pilots who I had "chatted" with...)

Edited to Add: Yes, I think I do choose my airlines based on pilot competency - this is why I'm mostly on LH intercontinentals, but was planning to shift...

I know that Jet usually is not the one who backs down in these situations... but seriously, now it's getting ridiculous. Just reinstate the 2 guys and be done with it. Is it honestly worth a loss of 19 cr. per day, plus the acceleration of the rate of losing customers?

(http://publication.samachar.com/pub_article.php?id=5496648&nextids=5496648|5496649|5496650|5496651|5496652&nextIndex=1)

I know that Jet usually is not the one who backs down in these situations... but seriously, now it's getting ridiculous. Just reinstate the 2 guys and be done with it. Is it honestly worth a loss of 19 cr. per day, plus the acceleration of the rate of losing customers?

(http://publication.samachar.com/pub_article.php?id=5496648&nextids=5496648|5496649|5496650|5496651|5496652&nextIndex=1)I side with Jet - we cannot be held hostage to employees thinking that they are the boss all the time - it happens WAY too often here!

I side with Jet - we cannot be held hostage to employees thinking that they are the boss all the time - it happens WAY too often here!
+1 ^

I side with Jet - we cannot be held hostage to employees thinking that they are the boss all the time - it happens WAY too often here!
Entirely agree. Highly paid doesn't make you any more valuable, in a sense. As mentioned in your earlier post, there are others who make (far) lower [by industry standards, of course] and can still fly a plane. Just because a pilot makes 2x or 3x more, can he/she fly 2x or 3x better ? I don't think so. To put it differently, I've never thought of a pilot's salary during my many flights...so to me at least, it's not a differentiator!

well I just bought my MAA-DEL tix today on Jet for Sept 22-24...I am sure this will all be over by then...right?

I wanted to take the earliest flight out and the latest back in...both of them Konnect...grrr...

well I just bought my MAA-DEL tix today on Jet for Sept 22-24...I am sure this will all be over by then...right?

I wanted to take the earliest flight out and the latest back in...both of them Konnect...grrr...I would be grrr'ing too if Konnect-ing!! :p :D

Reportedly reconciled: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/business/india-business/Jet-pilots-stir-Solution-to-end-deadlock-worked-out/articleshow/4996443.cms

Still unacceptable that they took back the pilots removed!

Really ? remember how Jet had to take back laid-off staff in Mumbai earlier this year ?
and if the latest reports are correct, Jet has backed down this time as well.

I know that Jet usually is not the one who backs down in these situations...

This may go against the majority in this forum but as an employee who is also part of a union at work, i totally back the pilots on this action.

The cause of the action was because 2 pilots got sacked for organising a union. Indian law allows them to start unions so Jet did something that was illegal. I know Jet pilots are not exactly living on the bread line or anything like that but against a private company, a union is one of the strongest groups against management when it comes to labour disputes.

The starting of the union all stems from what the local Indian pilots see as injustices. They want parity with the expat pilots or at least see the gap narrowing between the two pilot groups working conditions. Expats are paid in US Dollars and you got to remember that the Dollar appreciated over the last 12 months so when it comes to living costs in India, The expats ended up with a pay rise compared to Rupee paid indian pilots. Also when Jet announced that staff have to go, this apparently did not include expats who have lucarative contracts until the Indian DGCA decide to kick them out by 2011 or something.

Another example of how ignorant the Jet management are of the indian pilots:

from their own press statement: http://www.jetairways.com/EN/GB/PressReleases/pressstatement_080909.aspx

"All Jet Airways wide body long haul flights are currently operating as normal having been crewed by foreign pilots, who have been pulled out from leave and standby."

Stuff like this is the root of all these problems, Indian pilots are feeling hard done by, those big jets that all pilots dream of flying are being flown by foreigners.

Just as I paid for my ORD-SIN flights and started looking for SIN-DEL side trip, I learned two things:

Jet pilots went on strike.
KF got sued to be disbanded by a powerful creditor (an oil company),

So I thought that leaves AI and as I happened to be near their Chicago office this afternoon, I decided to stop and possibly buy a ticket.

The place is on the 24th floor of a building. The lobby or corridor weren't exactly buzzing. The AI office was awfully quiet with no customers, no phones ringing, no manager type person. Only 2 receptionists who seem disturbed by a customer walking in.

Summary of their take: They can only sell ultra-expensive nonstops. They can't sell any connecting flights on any airline including IC, because "merger is only on paper". They can't sell AI Express flights because the that too is a separate company. "like Southwest". They suggested I go online or to a TA, and seemed genuinely relieved when I picked up my papers to leave.

When I arrived there at 3:20PM, I was worried if 40 minutes would be enough (no parking allowed after 4PM due to rush hour); when I left I had used up only 10 minutes and had full 1/2 hour left in the meter.

While I have always found AI cabin service to be good, this was yet another reminder of their legendary ground staff standards.

So, what do I fear more: turmoil at Jet and KF, or incompetence at AI?

The strike is already happening, and its course is unpredictable; after pilots another union could get started. Incompetence is ever present too.

However, lawsuits are predictably slow - so back to KF as the best option Except that they are yet to start flying that route. So far, they are just selling tickets. :)

In my view, the objective of a union is to empower employees who may not have adequate resources (including influence/weight/power, whatever you call it), to provide them with the comfort of collective bargaining. Usually, this applies in factory jobs, where floor workers are low paid compared to the rest. By that yardstick, in an airline, it is the ground staff, baggage handlers, coach drivers and the like that need to be unionized (provided they are employed by the airline, of course, and not outsourced). Pilots are by far one of the highest paid professionals, their individual bargaining power is very high, as is the demand for their services.

I was once involved in some consulting work for an Indian cargo airline. Pilots' perspective to money there was (and am told, generally is) quite "cheap" and disgusting, to say the least. Normally, pilots are paid gross of tax (they can do all calculations it takes to fly a leviathan aircraft, but cannot work out tax at 30%, so). There was once this agitation at that client of ours, about pilots complaining that some deduction for about Rs 1000 (yes, ONE THOUSAND ONLY, thats US$ 22 approx) had been made in their annual compensation payouts. By going on this strike, I say they have hit a new low. :(:(

To pilots: Quit and join another airline (there are many who probably need you guys), but please do not inconvenience an entire nation. :td::td::td:

Edited to add: Just look at what the strike has done to flight costs: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/city/chennai/Day-3-of-Jet-Airways-imbroglio-Chennai-Delhi-one-way-ticket-costs-Rs-29000/articleshow/4996777.cms

Seems like fewer international flights have been cancelled today as compared to yesterday. The domestic list of cancellations remains largely as large as yesterday.

http://www.jetairways.com/EN/IN/PlanYourTravel/FlightUpdate.aspx

I totally agree with d3vski on his opinion. I think all the major airlines in the world have Union and whats wrong if JET's pilot forms one? Had Mr.Goyal thought of passenger convenience, he should have addressed to the issue of sacking of pilots. Afterall, what did they do - initiate to form an Union? He miscalculated that Jet pilots. They did well to rally behind the sacked pilots. I also think that a storm was brewing within the Jet pilots (read Indian pilots). The management were favouring the expats and earlier also, there was a plan to lay off only the Indian pilots & not the expats. The sacking of the pilots for forming Union has triggered the revolt.
I also want to share an interesting forward which i received regarding Mr.Goyal and his Jet airways ( probably sent by someone close to AI or IT)
.........It was amusing to watch Jet airways chairman Naresh Goyal cry himself hoarse on national TV about how his pilots are holding the nation to ransom. But do people know that he is an NRI and his CEO is a foreign national and his holding company is based in the Channel Islands? He owes the government oil companies hundreds of crores in dues and pay the foreing pilots 40 percent more than than Indian counterparts and not one of them pays income tax.

I totally agree with d3vski on his opinion. I think all the major airlines in the world have Union and whats wrong if JET's pilot forms one? Had Mr.Goyal thought of passenger convenience, he should have addressed to the issue of sacking of pilots. Afterall, what did they do - initiate to form an Union? He miscalculated that Jet pilots. They did well to rally behind the sacked pilots. I also think that a storm was brewing within the Jet pilots (read Indian pilots). The management were favouring the expats and earlier also, there was a plan to lay off only the Indian pilots & not the expats. The sacking of the pilots for forming Union has triggered the revolt.
I also want to share an interesting forward which i received regarding Mr.Goyal and his Jet airways ( probably sent by someone close to AI or IT)
.........It was amusing to watch Jet airways chairman Naresh Goyal cry himself hoarse on national TV about how his pilots are holding the nation to ransom. But do people know that he is an NRI and his CEO is a foreign national and his holding company is based in the Channel Islands? He owes the government oil companies hundreds of crores in dues and pay the foreing pilots 40 percent more than than Indian counterparts and not one of them pays income tax.The way they did this was ridiculous and unacceptable.

They should be happy that most of them actually have jobs - given the financial situation of airlines today! Many foreign pilots probably aren't flying right now - the ones that were flying for Jet earlier!.

To pilots: Quit and join another airline (there are many who probably need you guys), but please do not inconvenience an entire nation. :td::td::td:I completely agree with aniruddh77, period.

Seems like fewer international flights have been cancelled today as compared to yesterday. The domestic list of cancellations remains largely as large as yesterday.

http://www.jetairways.com/EN/IN/PlanYourTravel/FlightUpdate.aspxYes, they (the pilots) are again trying to spite management by coming back to work slowly, I gather!

Another example of how ignorant the Jet management are of the indian pilots:

from their own press statement: http://www.jetairways.com/EN/GB/PressReleases/pressstatement_080909.aspx

"All Jet Airways wide body long haul flights are currently operating as normal having been crewed by foreign pilots, who have been pulled out from leave and standby."

Stuff like this is the root of all these problems, Indian pilots are feeling hard done by, those big jets that all pilots dream of flying are being flown by foreigners.In my opinion, these local Indian "youngblood" pilots (who have no real history in aviation and/or real flying time) just want to jump to gain parity with the expats immediately, even though they cannot provide the same level of service!

One of my flights recently was with a pilot who was obviously American, and flying/landing capability was completely different - and the information being given to us at every stage was really appreciated. (I am almost sure that he is now being paid at the level of everyone else, but as we do not know, this information cannot be confirmed)

However, I am not saying that there are local pilots that do not do this, but most of the time they do not bother, and I would doubt that they have the same experience/history/training as the expats I have seen flying for 9w.

Also be advised that almost all my recent A332 flights on 9w intercontinentals (since this spring/summer) were with Indian pilots forward - so there aren't that many expats still around. (And I grit my teeth before landing, because it ends up being quite rough! :eek:)

Nothing wrong with having unions per se. Neither am I saying that whatever 9W did to the pilots was wrong.

What I have a problem with is, for no fault of theirs, customers suffer. To put it differently, would we as employees, put our clients in peril, just because we had issues with our employer? If that was acceptable, there would be total anarchy! We don't do it because we all have consciences. The striking pilots clearly don't. I can only respect and applaud those pilots of 9W who continue to fly, with or without fear of backlash from their unions.

What aniruddh77 said. ^ ^

9/10, when unions threaten strike actions, they know that management are going to back down or a compromise will come before the strike action begins.

No employee likes to take action which leads to salaries being docked unless they are truly believe in what they are fighting for.

Money is the main reason the majority of the world goes to work!

It should probably take a day or so to get back up to normal speed. Trying to bring 400 pilots back online simulataneously could be logistical nightmare so they may gradaully bring them back in small groups or so.

...unless they are truly believe in what they are fighting for.One can believe many things, even up to the absurd.

In addition, the belief of the (unionized (and possibly brainwashed work ethic, due to listening to the union "leaders")) employee deviates from management's goals and "belief" structure.

{The way they did this was ridiculous and unacceptable.

They should be happy that most of them actually have jobs - given the financial situation of airlines today! Many foreign pilots probably aren't flying right now - the ones that were flying for Jet earlier!.}



Had they gone on flash strike, then what you mentioned holds good but the
Jet Airways pilots under the newly registered National Aviators' Guild (NAG) gave the 15 days mandatory notice period but the management ignored to address to the issue. So when it happenned, why blame the pilots alone? The management is also equally responsible for causing inconvenience to the public.Jet management even forced the labour commissioner/ministry to declare the strike as illegal (Not sure where were these commissioner/ministry turned blind eye when AI/IC pilots/staff went on strike)

As far as the pilots are concerned, the only option for them for the management to take notice is to take part in strike. This is common in the aviation industry - LH/CX/BA/AF - all major airlines union have done in the past and will do so in the future.

{ One can believe many things, even up to the absurd.

In addition, the belief of the (unionized (and possibly brainwashed work ethic, due to listening to the union "leaders")) employee deviates from management's goals and "belief" structure.}

Which management are you referring to? Was it not the same mangement who threatened to strike on Aug 18th? In that case what are their 'goals' & "belief" structure?

Which management are you referring to? Was it not the same mangement who threatened to strike on Aug 18th? In that case what are their 'goals' & "belief" structure?Management in general, which also includes Jet Airways' management, obviously.

I have not researched the scenario of the airlines striking when put forward to the Indian government, but will do so, given the time. Until such time, I cannot comment on same, and therefore, this does not influence my views posted here.

Which management are you referring to? Was it not the same mangement who threatened to strike on Aug 18th? In that case what are their 'goals' & "belief" structure?

When they threatened the Aug 18 airline strike, they offered to pay back passengers or rebook without charges. I don't recall the striking pilots making any such indemnities as regards the current strike. 9W still has to suffer, irrespective of who's calling the strike - sounds a bit unfair, don't you think?

IMO, foreign pilots are better trained and experienced then some Indian pilots...this habit of coming in for a hot landing (and the resulting thump) that is a perrenial favourite of Indian pilots, no matter what conditions are, are to me an example of this. Lack of communications perhaps is another. There are certainly many excellent Indian pilots but I do see alot of young pilots in India...not sure they merit all this fuss.

Also this point from another post about Goyal as an NRI and the Chief who is a foreigner is quite typical of the blind nationalism that prevails with some people. Really irks me.

It's funny but as a foreigner and investor (most have to be quite vigilent about this), we keep all accounts clean and pay all taxes, not so for the 80% of Indians who hide in black money and evade taxes. The tax leakage is quite high here in almost every sector and the reason is mainly that collection is poor...the ones who are watched are the foreigners...certainly not the crooked politicians who hide crores and crores of cash under someone else' mattress.

Anyway, I have full faith in Jet as I bought my tix yesterday for a flight in 2 weeks. I hope management and the pilots sort things out amicably. I much prefer Jet over AI, IC, etc...I want them around.

When they threatened the Aug 18 airline strike, they offered to pay back passengers or rebook without charges. I don't recall the striking pilots making any such indemnities as regards the current strike. 9W still has to suffer, irrespective of who's calling the strike - sounds a bit unfair, don't you think?

Perfect...Its neither fair on the part of the pilots to strike and cause hardships to the public nor on the part of the management to dismiss the two pilots for forming an union. The way in which Mr.Goyal blamed the pilots for the fiasco is not fair - Aren't they all part of a single JET family? Whatever be the reason & whomsoever to be held responsible, the damage has been done and would have surely dented Jet's reputation in the world market.

IMO, foreign pilots are better trained and experienced then some Indian pilots...this habit of coming in for a hot landing (and the resulting thump) that is a perrenial favourite of Indian pilots, no matter what conditions are, are to me an example of this. Lack of communications perhaps is another. There are certainly many excellent Indian pilots but I do see alot of young pilots in India...not sure they merit all this fuss.

Also this point from another post about Goyal as an NRI and the Chief who is a foreigner is quite typical of the blind nationalism that prevails with some people. Really irks me.

It's funny but as a foreigner and investor (most have to be quite vigilent about this), we keep all accounts clean and pay all taxes, not so for the 80% of Indians who hide in black money and evade taxes. The tax leakage is quite high here in almost every sector and the reason is mainly that collection is poor...the ones who are watched are the foreigners...certainly not the crooked politicians who hide crores and crores of cash under someone else' mattress.

Anyway, I have full faith in Jet as I bought my tix yesterday for a flight in 2 weeks. I hope management and the pilots sort things out amicably. I much prefer Jet over AI, IC, etc...I want them around.+1 in all respects above.

Also this point from another post about Goyal as an NRI and the Chief who is a foreigner is quite typical of the blind nationalism that prevails with some people. Really irks me.In fact, he could take his whole operation offshore, if this minister who was quoted in the local news (TOI) was seriously interested in nationalizing the airline! :eek: :mad:

I would do this in a heartbeat if there is any threat of the same happening - he may even save substantially on many things, now that Jet has a relatively substantial international network...

It's funny but as a foreigner and investor (most have to be quite vigilent about this), we keep all accounts clean and pay all taxes, not so for the 80% of Indians who hide in black money and evade taxes. The tax leakage is quite high here in almost every sector and the reason is mainly that collection is poor...the ones who are watched are the foreigners...certainly not the crooked politicians who hide crores and crores of cash under someone else' mattress.

Yes, the standards are different for the two groups, but only when it means more money coming into govt. coffers. :rolleyes:

As aktchi has pointed out, things are repeatedly hitting rock bottom in Indian commerical aviation now-a-days.

Yes, the standards are different for the two groups, but only when it means more money coming into govt. coffers. :rolleyes:

As aktchi has pointed out, things are repeatedly hitting rock bottom in Indian commerical aviation now-a-days.

+1 ^

I believe an amicable settlement has now been reached, see http://www.jetairways.com/EN/IN/AboutUs/WelcomeAboard.aspx.

Keen to know what the settlement terms are...anybody with inside scoop?

Welcome Aboard!
We are back with the same world-class service.

We are pleased to inform you that we have reached an amicable settlement to end the industrial action that disrupted our services for the past few days. We are now working towards complete restoration of our normal operations and are endeavoring to achieve the same at the earliest.

Our website jetairways.com will be updated with real time flight status and you can also get your flight information from our call centre or through your travel agent.

We sincerely regret the inconvenience caused to all our guests during the past few days and would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your continued support. We were overwhelmed by the emails, phone calls and SMS's from our well wishers, expressing their concern for Jet Airways and we are grateful for the same.

ok yea its officially over....and a crappy 50% off sale to celebrate...outside my window, not rewarded for booking during the crisis. :( hehe...no i didn't expect anything. Glad its over but hope principles and integrity have been somewhat maintained...but I fear they haven't.