Virgin America Elevate - Comparison: Virgin America vs. American in 1st JFK-LAS

As promised (albeit in a different thread ;-) )

Comparison Review: Virgin America vs. American Airlines in First Class - New York to Las Vegas (http://tips4travel.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/first-class-transcon-flight-comparison-virgin-america-vs-american-airlines/)

I was really hoping the discrepancy wouldn't be so large... but it was.

Yup, it is. AA flies non-international configured 757s on JFK-LAS. (Matter of fact, flew that route about a month and a half ago: AA 257.)

AA going JFK-LAX would be a more even comparison. I ALMOST flew a 762 LAX-JFK to compare it to VX... until they swapped in a 757 for the 767, which is a fairly significant downgrade for J and F (pitch in J and F for a AA 762 is much better than AA 757 F).

Yup, it is. AA flies non-international configured 757s on JFK-LAS. (Matter of fact, flew that route about a month and a half ago: AA 257.)

AA going JFK-LAX would be a more even comparison. I ALMOST flew a 762 LAX-JFK to compare it to VX... until they swapped in a 757 for the 767, which is a fairly significant downgrade for J and F (pitch in J and F for a AA 762 is much better than AA 757 F.

Somewhat OT but UA might be a better comparison as they have their p.S. service between SFO/LAX and JFK. This flght is also very easy to score an upgrade using e-500s and offers a near International level of service. The food is generally very good to excellent and they give you little Archos media players loaded with movies in both C and F. The Y cabin is all E+ too but you are condemned to the grainy telly in the sky.

Somewhat OT but UA might be a better comparison as they have their p.S. service between SFO/LAX and JFK. This flght is also very easy to score an upgrade using e-500s and offers a near International level of service. The food is generally very good to excellent and they give you little Archos media players loaded with movies in both C and F. The Y cabin is all E+ too but you are condemned to the grainy telly in the sky.

This comparison was already done in here. See the FAQ for a link.

Yes, I know that LAX would have been a bit more on par but did the comparison this way for three reasons. 1) I was going to LAS ;-) and 2) I felt that the route is almost as far and they are only running one non-stop a day. I therefore feel that is SHOULD be competitive, even though it turned out not to be. It shouldn't be that hard to put nicer planes on transcon routes running 1x/day. 3) It seemed like an easier route to get upgrades both ways ($250 UG on VX and sticker upgrade on AA) and that held true.

There is no comparison here. VX hands down, as you experienced. The main difference between LAX/SFO vs. LAS offering a premium experience is LAX/SFO have a much stronger corporate contingent who are (or, at least, used to be) willing to pay the premium for the ticket - p.s. and Flagship svc both command a premium over normal transcon ticket prices. LAS is more a convention/leisure market, and they don't spend the dollars that would be required to justify the product upgrade.

Interestingly, I just flew DL JFK-LAX yesterday as the last leg of a BCN-CDG-JFK-LAX trip, and DL has retrofitted some of their int'l 757s in order to up their game in the JFK-LAX market. They're going with 4 Business Elite rows using the same Recaro's that VX uses in F, also in 55 in. pitch configuration. They have the same screen in the armrest, although with DL's good-but-not-VX-good AVOD (no live TV), and have non-working ethernet/usb ports at each seat. They also lack the remote from VX's seats, and have dual prong headset jacks in the same location as VX's stereo headset jacks, above the power ports. Was interesting to see the same seat in different, somewhat stripped down config. Coverings were cheaper - the plastics used were much bulkier and made the seat look worse. Took me a minute to do some hunting to figure out if it was in fact the same model seat, although Recaro put their name on the control pad on DL's seat. Does have the same electric seat controls and footrest, as well as the original massage/lumbar function that VX partially took out, and the reading light. I enjoyed the other pax in the cabin who were amazed at the seats and the room, having never been on this reconfigured plane or on VX before. They were like kids in a candy store. Rest of the product, although good, was still not good enough to compete with p.s., let alone VX. Strangely, they haven't added wifi to these planes yet, although they are in the midst of adding it to the fleet.

I partially agree on the biz vs leisure traveler market with two exceptions: 1) lots of conventions in Vegas bring lots of biz travelers from NYC and 2) perhaps AA should charge a bit less for 1st on this route if they intentionally keep an inferior product on it ;-)

I partially agree on the biz vs leisure traveler market with two exceptions: 1) lots of conventions in Vegas bring lots of biz travelers from NYC and 2) perhaps AA should charge a bit less for 1st on this route if they intentionally keep an inferior product on it ;-)

hehe...yes and no, re: the conventions. Conventions may bring business travelers, but conventions don't always pay top dollar, nor are they reliable like the corporate contracts that originally started the premium product on the JFK-LAX/SFO routing. RE: keeping an inferior product on it...it's a leapfrog game with UA and AA, and they're just slow to move. Originally, it was AA. Then UA jumped them. Then AA jumped ahead again when UA let the p.s. product go. Then VX came on the scene, and beat both of them. Now p.s. has been upgrading to outdo VX, and I expect AA will be installing the 777 config that flies the LAX-MIA routing on the JFK routes, and that will outdo VX and compete with UA. For now, I think AA just thinks not enough people know about VX, or they haven't lost enough business to do anything about the outrageous pricing for Flagship, even though it's seen much better days.

hehe...yes and no, re: the conventions. Conventions may bring business travelers, but conventions don't always pay top dollar, nor are they reliable like the corporate contracts that originally started the premium product on the JFK-LAX/SFO routing. RE: keeping an inferior product on it...it's a leapfrog game with UA and AA, and they're just slow to move. Originally, it was AA. Then UA jumped them. Then AA jumped ahead again when UA let the p.s. product go. Then VX came on the scene, and beat both of them. Now p.s. has been upgrading to outdo VX, and I expect AA will be installing the 777 config that flies the LAX-MIA routing on the JFK routes, and that will outdo VX and compete with UA. For now, I think AA just thinks not enough people know about VX, or they haven't lost enough business to do anything about the outrageous pricing for Flagship, even though it's seen much better days.

This is the kind of competition I love!

I felt that the route is almost as far and they are only running one non-stop a day. I therefore feel that is SHOULD be competitive, even though it turned out not to be. It shouldn't be that hard to put nicer planes on transcon routes running 1x/day.

You'd think, but the problem is AA would have to convert all their 757s to an international config to make this work, since realistically, JFK-LAS isn't really any more deserving of premium F than a lot of other places in AA's network (plus the complication of the fleet it involves)- plus they'd lose F seats, going from 22 (http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_Boeing_757-200.php) to 16 (http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_Boeing_757-200_B.php).

The other thing is AA F on that route IS actually cheaper than VX F going JFK-LAS... if you advance purchase P class discounted first, which is about $600 one-way. VX fares on that route are around $800 one-way. Yes, I know, you can buy the day-of-flight upgrade on VX... but you can buy stickers or burn miles on AA.