Spain/Portugal/Gibraltar - New "Crime in Barcelona" thread

Since the older thread has been closed…

There's no doubt that Barcelona is rife with street crime, like pickpocketing, bagsnatching, and mugging. Yes, it is a safe city, as long as you stow your stuff safely and keep physical contact with it. Otherwise, it has more likelihood, compared to many other cities, of disappearing. Let me back that up:

As a researcher of global street crime (and one who loves Barcelona as a destination), I can say that visitors to the city have a higher than average chance of experiencing theft. Sad but true, and documented with examples here: http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters/2008/05/barcelona-street-crime-today/

Someone mentioned Rome in the other thread. Rome is pretty high too, but concentrated more on public transportation (Bus 64 is called "the Heaven to Hell Express). Naples is huge in theft and huge on warm welcome (why I call it the City of Hugs and Thugs: http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters/2008/05/naples-capital-city-of-pickpockets/ ). And St. Petersburg is another lovely destination where caution is vital: http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters/2008/07/russian-rip-off-pickpockets-and-thugs/

I can go on, but I'd rather say that it's wise to learn a few travel-safety basics: dress down, carry only what you need, stow your stuff in body pouches, be alert to "good samaritans," and bring a little dose of skepticism on your trip.

Thanks, I will keep this in mind on our upcoming trip. I am a bit concerned about my DSLR camera, but also don't want to sacrifice a chance to take some photographs...just have to handcuff it to my wrist I guess :)

I'm in Barcelona right now, and I definitely concur that street crime in the tourist areas is, in my opinion, quite extreme when compared to other major cities in Western Europe.

All cities have street crime problems, but Barcelona really has an epidemic, based both on personal observation and historical data.

Police presence on La Ramblas is excellent, and there are many many police officers in the tourist areas in general. However, this does little to deter the thieves, it just makes it easier to report a crime.

Two days ago, I had a typical group of scammers try to pick my pocket on La Ramblas before I even got to breakfast. This was the "take a picture with us" trick, where they have a couple cute girls run up to you and try to take a picture with you, while their two male companions circle behind you. I saw the guys approach from the rear, and made it clear that they were in for a fight, and the entire group promptly dropped the act and moved on to the next target.

Unfortunately yesterday, my traveling friends were not so fortunate, and one of them had their purse snatched. They both had their passports in that bag as they were on their way to the airport at the time, and they're now stuck here until their Embassy appointment on Thursday, and subsequently whenever they can book another flight back to the states.

But I do want to say - don't let this discourage you from visiting Barcelona.

Every city is going to present street crime problems. Barcelona may have a serious problem in that department, but it's one that is manageable.

Lock up your stuff in the safe in your room. Wear a backback instead of a purse. Keep your wallet in your front pocket. Most importantly - don't put your bags down under your table or next to your table while you're eating. La Ramblas is notorious for tableside bag snatching. Ask any police officer walking around the area - they will tell you that this is insanely common.

Generally - be smart, keep your eyes open. It doesn't have to preoccupy you, but be aware that you're just a little more likely to get your pocket picked here than you might be on an average trip to Western Europe.

Barcelona has a lot to offer. Don't let the pickpockets deter you.

I Just came to know that under Spanish laws, if a pick pocket is caught, if cannot be sent to prison if the theft is less than 500€, only fined.

Now if it is more than 500€, they can be sent to prison for 72 hours.

The only way they'll solve the problem is by deporting them but I'm afraid that's not in the cards.

Good tips laid out by thebkguy. I may as well add one additional caution: watch what you put loose on table tops. For example, at a restaurant, you may put your phone on the table, your small camera, or your wallet while you're waiting for change. Same thing at an internet cafe: if you take out your wallet in order to use your credit card online, don't put the wallet on the desk.

Here's the clever trick. Someone comes along to your table and holds out something: a fan of postcards for sale, a map, a newspaper… He/she may mumble something, but then he's gone before you know it. Under the paper, he's clipped your item and leaves with it. Here's an example with photos of perpetrators. http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters/2008/06/swift-swiper/
Pickpocket "Kharem" had described "his invention" elsewhere on Thiefhunters in Paradise (http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters).

http://www.prnewswire.com/mnr/tripadvisor/37974/

I must say I love BCN

I fly to BCN something like 5 or 6 times a year for holidays/week-ends
and never ever something bad happened to me

(as I never had some problems in Mexico City, Moscow, Mumbai, NYC, Miami, Rio, Sao Paulo, Abidjan, Detroit, Buenos Aires...)

The only way they'll solve the problem is by deporting them but I'm afraid that's not in the cards.

If by them you mean gypsies, I think you'll find they've been in Spain an awful lot longer than you have....

Didn't the Nazis have similar ideas about gypsies?

If by them you mean gypsies, I think you'll find they've been in Spain an awful lot longer than you have....

Didn't the Nazis have similar ideas about gypsies?

:td: deportation is not equal nor similar in any way to extermination.

equating alanw's comment about thieves to Nazi ideology is pretty low. :td::td:

If by them you mean gypsies, I think you'll find they've been in Spain an awful lot longer than you have....

Didn't the Nazis have similar ideas about gypsies?


"Pickpockets" was the context here and they come *all* flavors, so that was the referent I assumed (perhaps because I've been accosted by US expat pickpockets and would-be scammers in Barcelona).

If by them you mean gypsies, I think you'll find they've been in Spain an awful lot longer than you have....

Didn't the Nazis have similar ideas about gypsies?

Gypsies can't be deported. They're either spanish citizens or Romanian (which is part of the EU now), so, basically they're entitled to more rights than an average american tourist...

Now, if we talk about deportation of illegal inmigrants that are breaking the law, that's another story

Good tips laid out by thebkguy. I may as well add one additional caution: watch what you put loose on table tops. For example, at a restaurant, you may put your phone on the table, your small camera, or your wallet while you're waiting for change. Same thing at an internet cafe: if you take out your wallet in order to use your credit card online, don't put the wallet on the desk.

Here's the clever trick. Someone comes along to your table and holds out something: a fan of postcards for sale, a map, a newspaper… He/she may mumble something, but then he's gone before you know it. Under the paper, he's clipped your item and leaves with it. Here's an example with photos of perpetrators. http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters/2008/06/swift-swiper/
Pickpocket "Kharem" had described "his invention" elsewhere on Thiefhunters in Paradise (http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters).

I've seen this post already in 3 different (and non-related) threads...
Someone's looking for blog traffic?

Just attention, I think.

Took a cruise from BCN in November. An elderly couple had had a precruise stay in BCN. Hailed a "cab" to drive them to the port. the driver hustled all their luggage into the trunk and he picked up the woman's hand-carryon. The driver took off, leaving the couple behind...a robbery. --I met the couple midway through the cruise. By then I am sure they were tired of repeating their sad tale...I didn't get any specifics.

I've seen this post already in 3 different (and non-related) threads...
Someone's looking for blog traffic?

Take it easy on a topic like this. I just happened to see it and glad I was. Was almost booking a quick visit not having been in years but will now just avoid the place.

Hailed a "cab" to drive them to the port. the driver hustled all their luggage into the trunk and he picked up the woman's hand-carryon. The driver took off, leaving the couple behind...a robbery.

To be honest, I find it hard to believe this story. I admit that Barcelona currently has a problem with (petty) crime. But I cannot imagine any official taxi driver being part of something like this. They pay a lot of money (tens of thousands of Euros) to buy their licence and will not risk losing this license in any way. And the authorities (the Institut Metropolità del Taxi (http://www.taxibarcelona.cat/tabid/2099/Default.aspx)) take complaints about drivers seriously.

Maybe it was an illegal taxi, but I have never heard of, or seen any of these in Barcelona.

And if it were a real taxi, writing down the licence number (painted on the car) or the licence plate should be enough to get things solved.

Yes, both Madrid and Barcelona excel in petty theft. Yes the perps cannot be sentenced for any crime, as this is a falta leve (less than a misdemeanor). And yes, the gypsies cannot be deported as they are mostly Rumanian and thus part of the EU.

BUT Barcelona is NOT the pickpocket capital of Spain. The US Embassy in Madrid reports that they (the Embassy) replace more US passports than any other US Embassy or Consulate in the world.

So, although they have beaten us in the last two football matches, Barcelona still has some catching up to do in some departments. :p

I think the problem lies in the fact that pickpocketing is basically viewed as a victimless crime. If there is no violence used - and the threat of violence is not enough, even with a weapon -- the perps walk.

IMHO, the passport replacement rate at the US Madrid embassy doesn't mean much, if any thing.

A while ago we had our passports stolen at the Fete d'Avignon (the cops called it the Festival of Thieves when we made our report). We tried to get the passport replaced in Geneva but were told that the counsel there could not do a speedy replacement, for that we would have to go to Bern to the Embassy.

So, perhaps, many of the BCN victims are going to MAD for fast service?

FYI, when our theft happened, all you needed to cross the intra European borders was a police report of a stolen passport--now, I guess you don't even need that.

The consulate in Barcelona can turn a passport around in a couple of days, same as the Embassy in Madrid.

Oh dear.

I think I'll just stick to safe places like New York City, where I know that the police will shoot dead (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8406986.stm) armed con artists and petty thieves in tourist-packed areas.

:rolleyes:

The consulate in Barcelona can turn a passport around in a couple of days, same as the Embassy in Madrid.

Not sure if this is a regular passport, a temporary passport (likely) or a travel document in lieu of a passport.

In any case, I have been told more than once to avoid using any consular service at the US Embassy in Madrid on a Monday moring, as all available hands are replacing passports stolen over the weekend and that citizens who arrive at 8:30 can actually make flights out that day. Thankfully, I have never had to test this intelligence! ;)

I've had to replace my passport in Barcelona and I've gotten a temporary passport (good for 30 days) in a couple of hours.

We tried to get the passport replaced in Geneva but were told that the counsel there could not do a speedy replacement, for that we would have to go to Bern to the Embassy.

The Geneva outpost is not representative of regular US consulates, as its purpose is to represent the USA at the United Nations, not to provide consular services to the public.

Unrelated, but in diplomatic circles a Geneva posting is quite desirable, while a stint in Bern is a bit of a career dead-end :p

The Geneva outpost is not representative of regular US consulates, as its purpose is to represent the USA at the United Nations, not to provide consular services to the public.:p

This does not appear to be correct. Take a look at the US Embassy info page for Switzerland and you will see that you can obtain consular services there. http://bern.usembassy.gov/service.html

In any event, crime in BCN remains a big problem--based on personal experience, really out of control, certainly compared to MAD.

Take it easy on a topic like this. I just happened to see it and glad I was. Was almost booking a quick visit not having been in years but will now just avoid the place.

oh please, be my guest :D

By the way, wasn't this thread closed by the mods????

A buddy of mine was mugged and stabbed in Barcelona this summer after walking back from a bar late at night with a "friendly drunk guy who staying at the same hostel". The guy slung his arm around my friend's shoulders for "support" as they walked. The second they turned the corner off a busy street, the "friendly drunk guy" turned stone-cold sober, and put a knife to my buddy's throat. My friend saw the knife, and the immediate reaction was "head-butt"... definitely not the best reflex, but he wasn't sober either. Broke the guys nose, both fell to the ground, and my friend took several stab wounds to the side before thinking better of it and giving up his wallet. He was lucky though, the ribs blocked the knife, the guy got away with all of 80 euro.

A bloody cab ride to the hospital and 36 staples later, my buddy went to the police the next day to report it, but left when he saw the line to report crimes was literally halfway around the block. Finished up the rest of his Euro trip and had some good photos and one heck of a story when he got back. The best part of the story - he was at the bar alone because there was only one bed left at the hostel, and his traveling companion had won a coin-toss for who got it. The winner picked up a girl at the bar and took her to bed... the loser got stabbed. Worst coin flip ever!

Lesson learned: Drunk, friendly, and alone... do not exceed two out of three.

Wow, now the crime has turned violent. Tourists had best heed the warnings posted here and stay away!

Even remembering my history in one of the previous threads, my opinion is currently :rolleyes:

Wow, now the crime has turned violent. Tourists had best heed the warnings posted here and stay away!

I dunno. It might be kind of fun to wait in a line half a block long to report a crime. Or, I could also go on an animal safari in Africa. Decisions, decisions.

Don't stand there waiting too long. The gypsies are liable to take your shoes!

If someone takes my stuff I will they will wish they had not done so.

Well, I was thinking of going to Spain for two weeks in March with my elderly mom to give her a break, but now I think I will simply go to the more civilized parts of Europe. Heck, even Italy or Greece seem better than this. I've travelled all over the world without any issues but I'm getting to the point where I'd rather not have to worry about stuff like this when I am on vacation.

Great decision!

Great decision!

:D ^ :D

Heck, I’m too scared to walk out of my front door lately. I’m living close to Parc Guëll, and with all the tourists here I’m sure it’s one of the most dangerous areas in Europe! :rolleyes:

:D ^ :D

Heck, I’m too scared to walk out of my front door lately. I’m living close to Parc Guëll, and with all the tourists here I’m sure it’s one of the most dangerous areas in Europe! :rolleyes:

I imagine you keep a vat (or several) of boiling oil handy to throw down on the hordes of criminals if they get too close to your building. Good luck.

We used to do that; the gypsies stole the vat. :(

We used to do that; the gypsies stole the vat. :(

They are a shifty bunch. :mad:

Sorry????
If someone takes my stuff I will they will wish they had not done so.

Amazing, really, the number of posts on this thread that attempt to downplay or ridicule those discussing the very serious issue of crime in Barcelona.

I was there.

I'm not going back to be a victim of the out of control street crime.

Excellent choice! Next post be sure to throw in some more hyperbole. There's no telling how many lives it may save.

Excellent choice! Next post be sure to throw in some more hyperbole. There's no telling how many lives it may save.

Yep, that's the sort of smarmy, useless comments I meant.

Crime in Barcelona is a very real problem.

Yep, that's the sort of smarmy, useless comments I meant.

Crime in Barcelona is a very real problem.
I can now beat absolutely everybody on this thread and truthfully say I've met someone who's son was recently shot in the neck and his body found in a suitcase in Valencia.

Don't anybody go to that region either!

Crime is a very real problem throughout Spain.

-
Is that better? The information is real, not hyperbole, so it must be useful.

Of course I must be insane, what with my intention to keep taking a small, innocent, defenceless child back to such a lawless and barbaric and uncivilised country and exposing her to all that crime and danger.

Please, everybody, for the sake of my young child (and others like her) continue to post about crime in Barcelona so that I may finally see reason and stop exposing her to such danger.
Won't anybody think of the children?!?

Crime in Barcelona is a very real problem.

:td: And this is the kind of comments take make us react like that. With phrases like this, I imagine a city where drug gangs have shoot outs in the streets, the tourist buses are subject to armed robberies and where taking a wrong turn or stopping at a traffic light will get you killed. :rolleyes:

And our point is that you do not risk more than your wallet. And to avoid being of victim of the "crime" here in Barna you only have to keep your eyes open and be careful where you keep your valuables.

I was there.

Yes, so was I.

I have been traveling to Barcelona for business and pleasure for over 20 years. I have walked, taxied, subwayed, etc all over the city at all hours of the day and night. I have been out very late, very inebriated (though only on my business trips, of course!). I have NEVER had a problem with safety, not one, in over 20 years.

Sure, crime happens, but it happens everywhere. I made a reference in an earlier thread about the police shooting dead a street vendor who had been scamming/intimidating tourists in Times Square at 11:15 in the morning, for godness' sake. Bad stuff can happen in any city, all over the world. BCN is not unique.

I have been traveling to Rio de Janeiro two or three times a year for the last 10 years. Now that's a city that could be considered dangerous. But I keep my eyes open and use common sense and I've never had a problem there, either.

Saying something is not a problem over and over again does not make the problem disappear.

I was in Barcelona for several days recently, observed several muggings and car break-ins taking place in that short time, and was the almost victim of an attempted pickpocketing myself (in the historic center).

Crime in Barcelona is much worse than in any other Western European or North American city I have been to. Unless something is done to correct this the golden tourist goose is going to be in bad shape.

Sorry, but no. You're either (a) imagining things, (b) making things up, or (c) the unluckiest person ever to visit the city.

Repeating your "several days" anecdotal experience of "almost" being the victim of a crime over and over again does not change the reality, especially of those who have lived in the city and walked those same streets ever and over for years.

But stay away if you think it's better for you.

Better yet, let the Barcelona "patriots" who are attempting to belittle the very serious crime crime problems of that lovely city put some energy into getting the problem moved towards resolution instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

Amazing, really, the number of posts on this thread that attempt to downplay or ridicule those discussing the very serious issue of crime in Barcelona.

I was there.

I'm not going back to be a victim of the out of control street crime.

you already told us ;) anything new to add?

I agree that crime in Barcelona is out of control. Not murder or gun crimes, but the type of petty crime that degrades the quality of life.

Purse snatchings, pickpocketings, strongarm mugging, and cameras and handbags stolen from tourists.

Part of the problem is that police and local governments are under pressure to keep crime statistics low. If they make it difficult enough to report a crime, and make the likelihood of a criminal being caught and punished near enough to zero, most people won't bother to report when they have been pickpocketed, mugged, or slashed with a knife. Thus the true crime rate is perhaps 20 to 30 times as high as the officially reported crime rate.

Another reason for this problem is Spain's (and Europe's) overall lower quality of life than North America. I don't have to worry about someone pulling a knife and demanding my watch or ring in Canada, because these items have zero resale value here. No one wants to buy anybody else's stolen jewelry, electronics etc. In contrast the Europeans, scraping by on their meager incomes in their humble tenements, present a large market for black market stolen goods. This gives incentive for the criminals to continue their criminality.

If enough people refuse to visit countries like this, perhaps they will crack down on their crime problem.

If enough people refuse to visit countries like this, perhaps they will crack down on their crime problem.

and if enough people refuse to visit the US, perhaps they will crack down their immigration problem and not treat tourists like criminals on arrival ... ;) but that's another story.

this thread is going OMNI ... :D keep them coming.

Another reason for this problem is Spain's (and Europe's) overall lower quality of life than North America.

:rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

I guess we should define "quality of life"... but better stop here before we go OMNI... (Thanks for the warning chrissxb :p)

I agree that crime in Barcelona is out of control. Not murder or gun crimes, but the type of petty crime that degrades the quality of life.

Purse snatchings, pickpocketings, strongarm mugging, and cameras and handbags stolen from tourists.

Part of the problem is that police and local governments are under pressure to keep crime statistics low. If they make it difficult enough to report a crime, and make the likelihood of a criminal being caught and punished near enough to zero, most people won't bother to report when they have been pickpocketed, mugged, or slashed with a knife. Thus the true crime rate is perhaps 20 to 30 times as high as the officially reported crime rate.

Another reason for this problem is Spain's (and Europe's) overall lower quality of life than North America. I don't have to worry about someone pulling a knife and demanding my watch or ring in Canada, because these items have zero resale value here. No one wants to buy anybody else's stolen jewelry, electronics etc. In contrast the Europeans, scraping by on their meager incomes in their humble tenements, present a large market for black market stolen goods. This gives incentive for the criminals to continue their criminality.

If enough people refuse to visit countries like this, perhaps they will crack down on their crime problem.

There is nothing in this post that is even diverges in the slightest from most zenophobic nonsense I have seem posted on Ftalk in all the time I have been here.

Even the most rabid OMNI adherent would be repelled by this:rolleyes:


mike

There is nothing in this post that is even diverges in the slightest from most zenophobic nonsense I have seem posted on Ftalk in all the time I have been here.

Even the most rabid OMNI adherent would be repelled by this:rolleyes:


mike

I figured out it was a troll post/joke somewhere near the "lower quality of life" nonsense. :)

zenophobic nonsense
mike

Did you mean "xenophobic"?

There is nothing in this post that is even diverges in the slightest from most zenophobic nonsense I have seem posted on Ftalk in all the time I have been here.

Even the most rabid OMNI adherent would be repelled by this:rolleyes:


mike

I am just puzzled, which do you consider it nonsense to point out that a city has a high rate of "nuisance/quality of life destroying" petty crime"?

Or do you consider it xenophobic to point out that some countries artificially lower their crime rate by making it difficult or pointless to report crimes to the authorities?

Maybe you consider it nonsense to point out that a high rate of property crime is driven by the willingness of a large part of the population to purchase stolen goods?

I had a fine time on my trips to Spain, and one of the things that made them most enjoyable was interacting with the Spanish people. I am not xenophobic, I am just a realist. I look forward to a return visit to Spain once they have done something about their crime situation.

I haven't posted here in a long time; actually since I was chastised for starting this thread. I know many a local in Barcelona who denies the crime problem. To some extent, this may have a bit to do with the locals staying away from the typical tourist areas which, granted, are for everyone; but locals often prefer to sidestep Las Ramblas, for example, to avoid the crowds.

I must agree with trilinearmipmap regarding the statistics. It IS difficult to report thefts; I've tried it myself many times, sometimes on the behalf of other victims, with varying degrees of success.

That said, Barcelona police actually admit to a pretty horrendous number. "115,055 pickpocketings and bagsnatches in Barcelona were reported in the 12 months ending August 2009, police said." Before you extrapolate that to 300 thefts per day, you should understand why that would be a huge underestimate.

I have written extensively about published crime rates in Barcelona and how they are seriously below reality. The moderator here does not like me posting links, but this is pertinent to the discussion here, and perhaps better than quoting my whole argument. If interested, it is here:
http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters/2009/11/barcelona-pickpocket-problem/

What I'm wondering is when the Barcelona police will admit to the terrible problem we have with blogwhoring on FT.

posting the same blog-link twice doesn't make it better. thread now closed.

regards,

chrissxb
moderator
europe forum