JAL Mileage Bank - Mileage Bank: JAL should get "Operation Correction" - toughest warning

Last week I tried to fly JAL (in partnership with Mileage Bank) from HKG to HND.

I experienced what must have been the worst FFP-experience ever (for a full report: click here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/emirates-airlines-skywards/987169-skywards-how-some-jal-crooks-really-hate-ek.html)).

This was a partner reward that was supposed to cost me 30.000 miles from my EK Skywards account + about 32 EUR in airport taxes. I had a reservation with JL to fly with them on JL8730 and JL0795. I could have booked the same city-pairs with CO for 25.000 miles, but since I largely prefer HND over NRT I thought it was good value to spend the extra miles and go with EK/JL anyway. This was probably the mistake of my life.

All I can say is that the JAL's Mileage Bank really s.cks!! Big Time!!

There seems to be no flexibility whatsoever in the way the program was set up, so it isn't very robust if anything goes wrong (especially if a partner airline is involved). It is clear that the staff on the ground don't know how to get anything done or how to fix any hick-ups, apart from telling the customer that the pax now has no other option but to pay the full last-minute Y-fare for a ticket that was supposed to be free.

IMHO the JAL Mileage Bank must be the worst FFP in the history of the world. I am a member with some other programs, and JAL beats them hands down... without even trying (literally).

The JL folks at HKG would have rather left me stranded, instead of looking into my problem and/or trying to find a solution for it. Notwithstanding the fact that my booking had been in their system for over a week (!) and notwithstanding the fact that they were talking to (or from their point of view: having to answer to) the folks of the EK Skywards call center in Dubai.

'Oh yes, your reservation: it's right here on our screen Sir. Oh yes, we have it in our system, but sorry Sir there's a small problem with it: taxes haven't been cleared. So "Computer says no!". And anyway, basically it's not our problem Sir. Really. So sorry Sir. There is nothing we can do. So now please pay 17.000 HKD Sir (= 1.500 EUR!!). So sorry Sir.'

I mean, what kind of an attitude is that? And what kind of service is that? You should have heard them manhandle the EK-folks at the other end of the line. It wasn't nice. And for sure, it wasn't helpful in any way. Collegiality?? I think NOT!!


Definition of COLLEGIALITY
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Collegiality is the relationship between colleagues. Colleagues are those explicitly united in a common purpose and respecting each other's abilities to work toward that purpose. A colleague is an associate in a profession or in a civil or ecclesiastical office. Thus, the word collegiality can connote respect for another's commitment to the common purpose and ability to work toward it. ...



Problem is, JL check-in crew seemed perfectly happy to turn the screws on their EK colleagues, using me as their hostage, absolutely unwilling to cooperate with the EK Skywards call center in Dubai, and just trying to suck 1.500 euro out of me and/or out of EK, whilst I was standing there at their check-in counter in Hong Kong, all set to go, luggage on the belt, about 60-30 mins before my flight to Tokyo.

And of course I was the one who ended up being screwed ... We all knew what was happening (me, JL, EK). The solution was clear for all to see (JL collect airport taxes directly from pax; instead of trying to clear them with EK for which there wasn't enough time). The details could have been worked out later, or the next day, or the day after, between the folks at JL Mileage Bank and EK Skywards. This whole issue could have been so easily avoided and was so completely unnecessary in the first place. No way in hell did I deserve to be treated like this!! Besides what kind of a "loyalty incentive" was this anyway?? Partner airline or no partner airline: This is no way to treat your most loyal customers!!

You better believe it: it was no surprise to me when I found out today that in China JAL is partnering up with their counterparts at MU (China Eastern): I discerned the same lack (or absence) of service at JL's HKG operation as I am used to (or rather used to be used to) with MU elsewhere in China, although I am not really sure which of both airlines is actually worse. I guess it also largely depends on which staff members you are dealing with... To be 100% fair: some friendly folks at JL in Tokyo would later really try to help me, but to no avail.

Because of JL check-in staff being unable (read: unwilling) to solve the very minor problem with my booking, my credit card also ended up being blocked whilst I was in Tokyo, not to mention all the time and energy wasted purely as the result of their VERY ill will.

Anyway, this was not the end my ordeal. The next day (after I got to HND) JL Intl Service Dept (JL staff in Japan are so much more friendly!!) looked into what went wrong and made a deal with the Skywards people at the Emirates HQ, only to call me back later that day to tell me they were reneging on their side of this deal, because of so-called "internal management problems" with the JL management in HKG.

No wonder this company is going down the drain!!!

F... man, some pple at JL simply don't give a f... about EK and/or about EK's passengers. From my observation: they probably don't give a f... about any passengers whatsover: JL or AA or CX or EK... . Hell, apparently some JL staff don't even give a f... about each other, with management and customer service all over the place. Must be a fun company to work for!!

On top of that they are now also trying to tell me that JL in fact have no contractual relation with EK whatsoever (concerning my reservations). Hmm, wasn't it EK that put my reservation into the JL CRS (and got it confirmed) in the first place?? And wasn't it with Mr. Carlos at the EK call center that they later made a deal with?? (only to renege on it again a couple of hours later).

Makes one wonder what will happen to the EK-JL partnership after EK starts operating flights into NRT.

Anyway, you've guessed it: something is seriously wrong with the JAL Mileage Bank program.

A 'Bank' bailout might might have been in order, if it weren't for the fact that the Japanese government has already (once again) bailed out the airline, just a couple of months ago. Apparently some of the staff believe they are now 100% genuine state employees, at least they have started to act like it!

The way the JL staff at HKG let me down (for no apparent reason) is a disgrace to Japan and to the rest of the country's airlines (which for some obscure reason happen to be very few in number). The difference with ANA couldn't be clearer... the proof effectively IS in the pudding! ... And JAL's pudding stinks!!

It's high time somebody stepped in and did something about this.

Therefore I would suggest that the authorities order an(other) "Operation Correction" (toughest warning) for JL (* (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/jal-mileage-bank/411982-jal-gets-operation-correction-toughest-warning.html#post3829409)) , for gross negligence and lack of due care during check-in operations at HKG, for discrediting the trademark Japanese hospitality, and for lack of any loyalty towards their partner airlines' guests and colleagues (in casu: EK).

I would also like to see the Japanese authorities order a "Management Correction" for JL, and for the JL HKG station in particular, for breach of contract, for being completely out of touch with modern customer service, and for bringing the airline's commercial operations (and possibly also the inflight operations??) in jeopardy.

Sincerely,

.

Sorry to hear your bad experience at HKG. Sounds like to me your JAL ticket hasn't even been issued BY EK. Did you have an e-ticket number BEFORE check-in for your HND-HKG flight? If not, how does this have to do with the JMB program? Your ticket is supposed to be issued by EK and miles deducted from your EK account.

Sounds like to me this has more to do with the inflexibility of the check-in agent/JAL and most importantly the screw up of EK. Japanese companies like to follow fixed set of rules. The check-in agent might not even have the authority to fix your problem even if he/she is willing to do so.

My suggestion is to write a complaint letter to EK and ask them for your money back.

I agree that this sounds like EK's screw-up. It clearly doesn't involve JMB at all.

I agree that this sounds like EK's screw-up. It clearly doesn't involve JMB at all.

It might well have been that EK dropped the ball on this initially, for in fact my 176-number had not be issued. I guess nobody is perfect, anyone can make mistakes... even JL, I am sure!!

But let me assure you: I fly with EK very regularly, and what just happened with me at JL would never have happened at EK.

Actually, EK worked very hard to get my (very minor) problem resolved, it's just that the folks at JL-HKG refused to cooperate with them. I am sure they could have found a temporary solution (collecting the airport tax from me personally) before working out the details with EK later.

There really was no need to take me hostage. No need to treat me like a piece of sh.t, whilst trying to suck 1.500 EUR out of EK (or me??). I was there when it happened: actually: it happened to me!! And I fly quite often, so I was quite able to understand the technicalities of what was actually going on.

There definitely IS a problem with JL's mileage bank (the worst FFP ever - if not, the second worst ever after AFKL's Fly ing Blu e), and the way it is set up to interact with the partner airlines, e.g. when clearing taxes and when settling air miles / credits.

I am not familiar with how the clearing and settlements between EK's Skywards and JL's Mileage Bank is actually organized, but I know one thing for sure: the JMB program does not have the required robustness. So in case something goes wrong there are no contingencies. And on top of that staff are unwilling/unable to take any of the necessary actions to go around their defective procedures, and solve the problem themselves.

- For a starter: that would be a major issue for any company aiming to provide excellent service and total quality.

- What's more: I know they could have helped me. There ALWAYS is someone who can overrule the rule book and get things moving (happened many times to me before, and saved me and everyone else a lot of time!!). I refuse to believe that compared to the average blue collar worker at Toyota, JL's check-in crew are nothing but evil robots. At first I almost thought they were inhumane, as they were standing there telling me "Computer says no" and "Now please pay 17.000 HKD". Clearly: they just refused to help me. Point.

And what's with all the "internal management problems" between JAL HQ and their JAL HKG station??? Wouldn't you call that something wrong, or involving JMB??

And what's with the way JL first made a deal with EK (took quite some time also), telling me to re-book a partially fictitious reward ticket, so JMB could cash some extra miles and the taxes (for flights I couldn't practically be on), only to call me back later (without even informing EK) after the reservation had been re-booked, to tell me that they were no longer going to stick to their part of the agreement (keeping my money for themselves after all)... That's outright breach of contract!!

I would say something is definitely very wrong with JAL's Mileage Bank.

I had an agreement with both EK and JAL!! And of course EK and JAL had/have an agreement amongst themselves, notwithstanding the lame excuses JL is trying to come up with now, trying to make me believe that in my case they do not have a direct contractual relation with EK.

In the end JAL chose not to refund my money (because - they say - they have no hold over what their (treasury) managers in HKG are up to), and therefore reneged on the explicit agreement I had with them.

Conclusion: if JL were not at the very basis of my problem, then for sure they have done everything possible to make it waaaaay waaaay bigger than it ever needed to be.

This kind of irresponsible state-employee-like behavior really p.sses me off!!

.

I understand your frustration, regardless of who's fault it is. JL staff acts like robot and are not very helpful. We all know that when the flight is controlled by the airport stn, they can do anything to accomodate irregular situations.

I only fly NRT-HKG-NRT on CX, it's more friendly and flexible.

I was on JL and had good service on ground: even when i was in crap invol before getting to the airport outside the control of JL and they do try to sort it out.
If your ticket has not been issued by EK, what'd you expect someone else on another airline can do?
I have always been able to ticket, through CX, on OW airlines without a problem, with less than 24 hrs to departure. and there is nothing Mileage bank has done wrong to you- you did not use their miles, you are not their member... you got your ticket (that has not been ticketed by EK) thru EK, bring it up to them! and you didnt even bother checking if you'e been ticketed say 48 hrs before your flight?

Now imagine walking up to a checkin desk in the US or the UK without a ticket and making a fuss...

This bears repeating: JAL Mileage Bank is completely unrelated to this story. They were never involved. The miles were earned and spent on Emirates, and it was Emirates' responsibility to issue the tickets. JAL may have been unhelpful on the ground, but that is a problem with the airline and not its mileage program.

This bears repeating: JAL Mileage Bank is completely unrelated to this story. They were never involved. The miles were earned and spent on Emirates, and it was Emirates' responsibility to issue the tickets. JAL may have been unhelpful on the ground, but that is a problem with the airline and not its mileage program.

I gotta agree. You problem is with Emirates. I fly AA all the time in the States, besides the guarantees outlined in the OW Sapphire list, I don't expect anything else of AA. Their PAX and Elites will come first, and if JAL screws something up on an award tix then it's by the grace of AA go I.

Could JAL have been more helpful? Maybe. You don't know what the condition of the flight was. Maybe awards we're already booked out when you got there, and there was no award seat to be given out. Also, if I was in the clerk's shoe I don't know if I'd got to bat for angry PAX on an award tix that his airline didn't ticket. Might haven gotten the counter clerk in trouble losing revenue to correct Emirates' mistake.

Sorry to hear you had a bad time, and I along with everyone else can understand your frustration, but turn it to the people that screwed up in the first place, Emirates.

Your gripe should really be with EK.

I had a similar situation a few months ago with British Airways. I had an award booking made with AA miles. When I got to the check-in at LHR, I was told that there was no e-ticket in the system and I needed a paper ticket which I had never received. BA was totally dis-interested, which annoyed me, but in fairness it wasnt their problem. The award was in First so I did think they could have been more proactive, and I understand where you are coming from, but ultimately, this was not their mistake and there was nothing they could really do. In my case, I called AA from my cell phone (dialing long distance to America) and within a few minutes, AA corrected the problem (on their own, with no co-operation with AA) and I had an e-ticket, which the check-in agent suddenly saw. I can assure you that had AA not fixed the problem, I would not have been flying that day without paying for it...

Amongst your emotionally charged sensationalist diatribe and pointless references to dictionary definitions, it's really hard to get an accurate idea of what went wrong.

In any case, JL are simply under no obligations to help you with an EK-booked reward ticket. Any airline would normally tell you the same - sort it out with the partner who booked the ticket.

If it was just a matter of a properly issued e-ticket with wrong taxes, then yes - denied boarding sounds a bit much.

But if EK did not issue an e-ticket (i.e. no ticket number) then you really should be screaming at EK. JL couldn't have, and shouldn't have, done anything to help you with EK's somewhat fundamental mistake of not issuing the ticket.