Virgin America Elevate - Expiration Date of Elevate Points

Hi there,
I was reading on my elevate account about when my points expire. Here is the language on the Elevate site:
Your points will expire 18 months from the end of the month in which they are earned. Points earned prior to October 1, 2008 will expire on March 31, 2010.
So is that like United where after 18 months of no activity, they will expire? Or will the points expire at different times, depending on when I earned them? For example, I flew VX last week. Last time I flew was about a year ago. Does that mean that last year's points will expire one year before last week's points?

I hope I'm misreading this. If so, that means that any "free" trips I redeem with elevate will have to be earned within an 18 month period, right? That's sort of a bummer. I fly 100k+ miles/year with United, but I really like VX and use them as a backup / change of pace at times. But since it's not my primary carrier, I'm unlikely to earn enough points in an 18 month period for an award ticket, making elevate useless for me.

Am I misreading? Set me straight!

the points have a rolling expiration date, based on the time they are awarded.

the points have a rolling expiration date, based on the time they are awarded.
I see - so if you want to redeem an award seat for a few thousand points, you have to have earned those within an 18 month period. This makes me a sad panda.

This makes me a sad panda.

me too :(

It makes everyone sad. Some awards would be almost mathematically impossible to achieve.

I have certainly given much feedback on this, and suggest that everyone do the same. I am hoping this gets rescinded before March.

I have certainly given much feedback on this, and suggest that everyone do the same. I am hoping this gets rescinded before March.
Good suggestion. I will give feedback on this issue. Like I mentioned earlier, I use UA as my primary carrier and since I'm maybe only doing 1 to 4 segments per year on VX, i'll NEVER get an award ticket - that really disincentives me to fly this airline. THanks for the suggestion.

This type of policy is really bad on any airline. It's what keeps me away from Southwest even tho being PHX based, they're the best choice for short hauls.

But for an airline as small as VX, this is just asinine.

I love the 2 trips I've taken on VX. In my heart I truly would love to fly them more than anyone else. But they don't come to PHX and even outside of my home town their route structure is very limited.
Yet I get penalized because I can't earn a decent amount of points within 18 months on their limited route system. :confused:

This isn't a complaint on the VX route structure. Their limitations are a fact of life for a start-up carrier, particularly in today's economy. I just don't think their rewards program should penalize would be loyalists just because my travels are not always between their few city pairs !!

Steve

I wish they didn't expire either (I'm a sad panda too). But playing devil's advocate, maybe they're trying to keep their liabilities low?

Let's hope they will change it when they are a little more established? Hopefully sooner rather than later.

BTW - points don't start expiring until March 2010. And at least they don't restrict award travel.

You can also get some awards when the prices of tickets are very low for the number of points you can earn from a single higher priced flight. As each point has the same value the way to maximize them is to use them for the lowest possible redemption level. You are thus better off redeeming on the $29-$49 sale fares as you only pay $2.50 instead of the $10.50+ in taxes. If you want a premium class just try online check in an pay the upgrade fee. It doesn't make any sense to horde large amounts of points like in some programs as the value of each point never increases.

People get into the midset of other FF programs based on distance and that is not the point of this program.

People get into the midset of other FF programs based on distance and that is not the point of this program.

True, but that's not what this post is about. It's about VX's (frankly ridiculous) expiring of points 18 months after they are earned. That makes the program pretty much useless to those who fly just a few times a year.

You can also get some awards when the prices of tickets are very low for the number of points you can earn from a single higher priced flight. As each point has the same value the way to maximize them is to use them for the lowest possible redemption level. You are thus better off redeeming on the $29-$49 sale fares as you only pay $2.50 instead of the $10.50+ in taxes. If you want a premium class just try online check in an pay the upgrade fee. It doesn't make any sense to horde large amounts of points like in some programs as the value of each point never increases.

People get into the midset of other FF programs based on distance and that is not the point of this program.

Yes, this does make it interesting. When I think about using points, I always start out thinking as though it was a legacy program. I want the ticket cost to be as high as possible, so that I am getting the most value for the points. With elevate, it's the opposite. You want the fare to be as *low* as possible! The points are worth .0215 no matter what the fare is. There's no reason to not use them for short hauls, for example.

The problem, though, is for flights like SEA-FLL, where it's $1100 each way for F. You need 55,000 points for one way! Disregarding credit card bonuses, you need to spend $11,000 on air travel to get a one-way ticket in F, within 18 months. Most people don't do that, let alone $22,000 for a round trip.

Yes, this does make it interesting. When I think about using points, I always start out thinking as though it was a legacy program. I want the ticket cost to be as high as possible, so that I am getting the most value for the points. With elevate, it's the opposite. You want the fare to be as *low* as possible! The points are worth .0215 no matter what the fare is. There's no reason to not use them for short hauls, for example.

The problem, though, is for flights like SEA-FLL, where it's $1100 each way for F. You need 55,000 points for one way! Disregarding credit card bonuses, you need to spend $11,000 on air travel to get a one-way ticket in F, within 18 months. Most people don't do that, let alone $22,000 for a round trip.

And if they did spend that much, they are likely to be much better off on a legacy carrier with a traditional frequent flyer program.

you should definitely provide feedback to them, it's still a new airline and this is a new program. one which is constantly in a state of flux.

i think being able to purchase points would be a good addition. there are other parts, like the inability to make changes to points bookings without having to cancel them first, that could probably work better.

you should definitely provide feedback to them, it's still a new airline and this is a new program. one which is constantly in a state of flux.

i think being able to purchase points would be a good addition. there are other parts, like the inability to make changes to points bookings without having to cancel them first, that could probably work better.

The credit card is good enough for me instead of purchasing points. And with the US Mint deal, you can get points for free.

What they really need is the ability to upgrade to F with points.

True, but that's not what this post is about. It's about VX's (frankly ridiculous) expiring of points 18 months after they are earned. That makes the program pretty much useless to those who fly just a few times a year.

Welcome to Southwest Rapid Rewards. Lots of people only fly WN a few times a year. 24 month expiration doesn't seem to hurt them too much.

I, for one, do NOT find RR useless, even though I don't fly WN to the same extent I fly AS/VX, because I dump all my car rental mileage awards there (and have sent AMEX points there, too, on occasion)- and you get a MUCH better deal on WN for those than you do on other airlines- half a RR credit, sometimes up to 1.5/2 credits. If you figure a WN award is worth ~$300, half a RR credit is a value of about $10 (and if you do it right and get a cheap rental, you can get a significant amount of a rental's cost back as RR credits). VX's awards aren't quite as good, though, from what I can see- 1 point per dollar spent + some bonuses.

All in all, VX isn't spending money on making their FF program particularly lucrative. This is unlikely to make them popular on FT. Whether it's a bad strategy is another question, and I am not sure I know the answer- it seems everyone is watering down their FF plans, from the good ones (AS) to the bad (DL), so maybe VX is ahead of the curve.

Oh, and I've taken VX a grand total of 14 flights in the space of ~17 months, all flying as roundtrips or one-ways to LAX/SFO/LAS to and from SEA, all bought pretty cheap as Main Cabin flights. I've already redeemed one one-way award (SEA-LAX), and after the next two flights I take, I'll have enough to redeem another (and I don't own the credit card). So I don't think it's impossible to get SOME value out of this, even if you only take a few roundtrips a year. The key is to think as sfozrhfco and aviators99 have suggested: you want to redeem the points for the cheapest flight available (and thank goodness, SEA has tons of cheap VX seats).

i think being able to purchase points would be a good addition.

Er, why? Why wouldn't you just pay for the fare with cash, since they have a fixed value of exchange for points?

Wow - I'm certainly not happy to understand the details here. I thought it was more like the others where you needed activity every 18 months. This is a very different story.

I just booked my family of four on Virgin LAX-JFK. The price was almost identical to Delta, which I now realize I should have chosen. I probably would have made medallion on Delta, plus the miles would all be in one place. But, I figured, they have an FF program, so I'll try it. Had I realized, no way.

What's crazy is that their price is competitive with Delta, but once you factor in the miles situation, it's not even close. I figure for every five coast to coast flights on Delta, I get one free. I probably make enough to get that in under 18 months, but my kids don't. So I just blew 20% of the ticket price on their fares - and that adds up to a decent amount of money.

Unless/until this policy changes, these will be my last Virgin flights.

Welcome to Southwest Rapid Rewards. Lots of people only fly WN a few times a year. 24 month expiration doesn't seem to hurt them too much.

I, for one, do NOT find RR useless, even though I don't fly WN to the same extent I fly AS/VX, because I dump all my car rental mileage awards there (and have sent AMEX points there, too, on occasion)- and you get a MUCH better deal on WN for those than you do on other airlines- half a RR credit, sometimes up to 1.5/2 credits. If you figure a WN award is worth ~$300, half a RR credit is a value of about $10 (and if you do it right and get a cheap rental, you can get a significant amount of a rental's cost back as RR credits). VX's awards aren't quite as good, though, from what I can see- 1 point per dollar spent + some bonuses.

All in all, VX isn't spending money on making their FF program particularly lucrative. This is unlikely to make them popular on FT. Whether it's a bad strategy is another question, and I am not sure I know the answer- it seems everyone is watering down their FF plans, from the good ones (AS) to the bad (DL), so maybe VX is ahead of the curve.

Oh, and I've taken VX a grand total of 14 flights in the space of ~17 months, all flying as roundtrips or one-ways to LAX/SFO/LAS to and from SEA, all bought pretty cheap as Main Cabin flights. I've already redeemed one one-way award (SEA-LAX), and after the next two flights I take, I'll have enough to redeem another (and I don't own the credit card). So I don't think it's impossible to get SOME value out of this, even if you only take a few roundtrips a year. The key is to think as sfozrhfco and aviators99 have suggested: you want to redeem the points for the cheapest flight available (and thank goodness, SEA has tons of cheap VX seats).



Er, why? Why wouldn't you just pay for the fare with cash, since they have a fixed value of exchange for points?

I think RR is a much better program than eleVAte because WN throws in a number of benefits and other ways to earn credits to allow people to actually earn an award. I, too, earn most of my WN credits via car rentals. Plus, the resulting award on WN can actually be quite valuable - I've used them on flights that would have cost me upwards of $600, which is an award value that I think few people will ever achieve using VX points.

VX's program isn't totally useless - I spent about $4,000 on VX last year and so far have received two free trips that would have otherwise cost me about $100 a piece. There's a bit of value in that, but I would have received a much better value had I spent that $4,000 on just about any other airline. For those who spend under $1,000 a year, redeeming is nearly hopeless.

VX's program isn't totally useless - I spent about $4,000 on VX last year and so far have received two free trips that would have otherwise cost me about $100 a piece. There's a bit of value in that, but I would have received a much better value had I spent that $4,000 on just about any other airline. For those who spend under $1,000 a year, redeeming is nearly hopeless.

Sounds about right. And I do think Elevate is a lot more stingy than RR.

For those who spend under $1,000 a year, redeeming is nearly hopeless.
Well said - I have one more VX segment in mid September, and then I'm going to stop flying VX for a while, until they change their policy. If they change, it then i'll come back!