Starwood Preferred Guest - SPG res agent laughs when I ask to book award stay in Napa (merged)

When is "no restrictions on award stays" really "some restrictions on award stays?" When it is the Westin Verasa in Napa and points can only be used for standard rooms but not upgraded rooms or suites.

I just tried to book an award stay there using points. There are plenty of rooms available as well as suites, but this property does not allow points to be used for anything but a standard room. So no award stay is available.

I guess there is some clause in the SPG program that allows this, but it is my first encounter with it and quite disappointing.

It's ironic, since every time I've stayed there before, I've been upgraded simply based on my Gold status and didn't use the standard room anyway. :confused:

This is true for every SPG property and has been part of the SPG program as long as I've been a part of it. It's been discussed here several times - to prevent repeating a lot of info:

9.2 “Free Night Awards” are each valid for one free night, single and/or double standard room only occupancy, at Participating Properties, and include the cost of your hotel room and room tax/service charge.

No Blackout dates? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starwood-preferred-guest/892120-no-blackout-dates-bs.html)

Any way to book an award suite when std. rooms are sold out? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starwood-preferred-guest/855203-any-way-book-award-suite-when-std-rooms-sold-out.html)

No blackout dates not true (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starwood-preferred-guest/604941-when-spg-doesnt-work-no-blackoutdates-not-true.html)

When is "no restrictions on award stays" really "some restrictions on award stays?" When it is the Westin Verasa in Napa and points can only be used for standard rooms but not upgraded rooms or suites.

I just tried to book an award stay there using points. There are plenty of rooms available as well as suites, but this property does not allow points to be used for anything but a standard room. So no award stay is available.

I guess there is some clause in the SPG program that allows this, but it is my first encounter with it and quite disappointing.

It's ironic, since every time I've stayed there before, I've been upgraded simply based on my Gold status and didn't use the standard room anyway. :confused:

This has been discussed countless times here in the forum.

A property must have a standard room available in order to book an award room. This is not new.

When you previously booked a room at this property a standard room had to be available in order to confirm the booking. That got you into the hotel. That has nothing to do with you receiving an upgrade or not using the standard room.

Award Not Available, But Paid (Pre-paid, that is) Room Is? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starwood-preferred-guest/730932-award-not-available-but-paid-pre-paid-room.html)
"No" Blackout dates? BS! (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starwood-preferred-guest/892120-no-blackout-dates-bs.html)

Isn't this property a time share property with private owners? This is pure conjecture on my part, but I wonder if that has something to do with it.

I assume he is trying to book a room and can not, since the hotel has no standard rooms available, but when you go to pay for a room they have a lot under different names, JR suite, corner room etc. that the hotel will not allow points for. I have this happen to me a lot, and is my biggest gripe with SPG, as I often have a hard time using my award points. You must book and plan months out to use them unlike Hilton where all I need is 48 hrs.

Isn't this property a time share property with private owners? This is pure conjecture on my part, but I wonder if that has something to do with it.

As has been mentioned in the threads on this property, it is a hotel/condo property and has a very small number (something like 9) standard rooms, so award availability is spotty.

I assume he is trying to book a room and can not, since the hotel has no standard rooms available,...

Unfortunately, I am not so sure that is the case. He indicates that standard rooms are available.

has a very small number (something like 9) standard rooms
I've heard 6, but I think it's really only 2 or 3.

When it is the Westin Verasa in Napa and points can only be used for standard rooms but not upgraded rooms or suites.
Unfortunately, I am not so sure that is the case. He indicates that standard rooms are available.

Wait is JerryFF trying to book a suite or non standard room with reward points??

Oy. This stuff has been asked and answered ad nauseum.

I'd say it probably has something to do with this section of the SPG terms and conditions where it clearly states:


9.2. Free Nights Awards.

“Free Night Awards” are each valid for one free night, single and/or double standard room only occupancy, at Participating Properties, and include the cost of your hotel room and room tax/service charge. When using a Free Night Award, bedding and smoking preferences may be requested but are not guaranteed. All other hotel charges are the responsibility of the Member and are not covered by the Free Night Award. Members may redeem Starpoints for up to a total of nine rooms on the same date at the same property; however, a Member may only earn Starpoints for Eligible Charges incurred in three rooms. A Member will not have an Eligible Night or an Eligible Stay towards Gold or Platinum Membership levels for any Free Night Awards, Cash and Points, bonuses or promotions used, even if the Member earns Starpoints on other Eligible Charges.

The number of Starpoints needed to redeem a Free Night Award varies by the category of hotel, and may also vary by time of year. We can change the category in which a specific Participating Property is classified at any time without notice.

A Weekend Free Night Award is available on either a Friday or Saturday night and is applicable to Category 1 and Category 2 Participating Properties only.

Free Night Awards are not subject to blackout dates, apply to standard rooms only, are non-commissionable, and require advanced reservations. Free Night Awards must be redeemed at the time of reservation by contacting your regional Customer Contact Center or through the Internet.

The Le Royal Meridien National, Moscow has limited participation in Starwood Preferred Guest; it does not participate in Free Night Awards, but it does offer Starpoints for eligible charges and applicable in-hotel benefits.






The hotels don't HAVE to offer any upgraded rooms for points, and the fact the most do is something that we should not take for granted.

I've heard 6, but I think it's really only 2 or 3.

20, actually, but that wouldn't make for a good enough conspiracy theory on FT. ;)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

20, actually, but that wouldn't make for a good enough conspiracy theory on FT. ;)



Thanks, Lurker, for noting that fact. Further to put things into perspective: This means Starwood, with 180 rooms at the property, makes fully 1/9th of inventory available at budget award rates every day. Think the U.S. airlines do that? No way.

fully 1/9th of inventory available at budget award rates every day. Think the U.S. airlines do that? No way.

they do on flights to Des Moines.

Thanks, Lurker, for noting that fact. Further to put things into perspective: This means Starwood, with 180 rooms at the property, makes fully 1/9th of inventory available at budget award rates every day. Think the U.S. airlines do that? No way.

It's apples-to-oranges. The big three hotel programs are now all using a similar single-level "anytime" availability system. Therefore, we are inherently paying for it via the award levels themselves. Marriott was the last to abandon their two-level system.

It's simply a trade-off. If you liked to travel slightly off-peak, there was no greater value in the hotel world than a Marriott Travel Package at a very good Category 5 hotel. (Values at 6 and 7 were also very good.) If you prefer peak seasons, you probably hated Marriott's system and favored HH and SPG.

If the airlines were to follow the hotels, they'd probably set the award levels at 80-90% of today's "anytime" levels. (e.g., 45k or so for a coach ticket in North America, etc.) I would prefer that they not go that route. :)

When is "no restrictions on award stays" really "some restrictions on award stays?" When it is the Westin Verasa in Napa and points can only be used for standard rooms but not upgraded rooms or suites.

I just tried to book an award stay there using points. There are plenty of rooms available as well as suites, but this property does not allow points to be used for anything but a standard room. So no award stay is available.

I guess there is some clause in the SPG program that allows this, but it is my first encounter with it and quite disappointing.

It's ironic, since every time I've stayed there before, I've been upgraded simply based on my Gold status and didn't use the standard room anyway. :confused:

Have you tried contacting the hotel directly? In order for the SPG call center to offer you an upgraded room using points, for instance a speciality select or suite upgrade, the hotel must load the appropriate rate plan in their systems. In most cases, every single SPG hotel I have encountered does that - it is in their interest to do so, at least to make the option available. There is however no guarantee that what rate they will charge. You may end up paying more than the double of standard award for a suite as the property can have multiple rate plans even for Suites. I suspect it may simply have been a case that hotel did not load the proper rate plans for SPG Call center to use - this happens occasionaly when a hotel fails to load rate plans for standard rooms within for next year but within 12 months of today's date, so this kind of problem is usually corrected with a quick call from the appropriate person within the SPG Customer Care.

Failing that, there could be property specific issues mentioned by SanDiego1K so to be sure, you need to ask for a supervisor as opposed to taking the words of a rep who may or may not be well trained on such issue.

IMO, a property which doesn't load SPG award rate plans for non-standard room is probably making a mistake in most cases. By all means, please do contact SPG Customer Care and ask for a supervisor or speak with someone in the hotel's reservation department.

FYI, Hilton HHonors allows their Diamond members to book award rooms on sold out properties. Even if a hotel is completely full, so long as you call at least 48 hours in advance, you can force a room availability and then choose to use points for it, instead of cash. SPG Platinum's room guarantee doesn't apply to points and you must pay for it using cash. This is perhaps by the far the biggest advantage that HH Diamond has over SPG Platinum but is often not talked about.

FYI, Hilton HHonors allows their Diamond members to book award rooms on sold out properties. Even if a hotel is completely full, so long as you call at least 48 hours in advance, you can force a room availability and then choose to use points for it, instead of cash. SPG Platinum's room guarantee doesn't apply to points and you must pay for it using cash. This is perhaps by the far the biggest advantage that HH Diamond has over SPG Platinum but is often not talked about.

You are often premitted by HH to convert a Diamond Special request to an award stay PROVIDED the property in question accepts the terms/conditions proposed by the Diamond desk.
But that is not specifically guaranteed and as far as i know not recorded anywhere in the T&C Of the Hilton program ...plus I am aware of instances where it has not been granted.

mike

You are often premitted by HH to convert a Diamond Special request to an award stay PROVIDED the property in question accepts the terms/conditions proposed by the Diamond desk.

You are the first person I know who have made such a statement. You know what, I'll ask and find out since I don't know whether you are right or wrong.


But that is not specifically guaranteed and as far as i know not recorded anywhere in the T&C Of the Hilton program ...plus I am aware of instances where it has not been granted.

mike

It doesn't apply to the Olympics, defined as property pre-sold to a 3rd party, and the Extraodinary Demand Date (EDD) restricitons still apply. As far as I am concerned, so long as the member doesn't try to booking during a EDD, it would be guaranteed. The T&C is explicity clear re: the 48-hour guarantee, there is no opt out clause and I don't think there needs to be debate re what the word "guarantee" means. The HHonors coprorate has a lot of flexibility in converting paid rooms into award rooms, I have in the past booked a paid reservation where award was not available and HH Customer Care simply converted that paid reservation into award. The hotel was still under the impression that I was paying cash though when I arrived but it was quickly resolved. From that experience, I have some doubt re: your claim that HH Customer Care needs the conesnt of the property in question to convert rooms into awards since clearly, it didn't have to.

I don't want to divert this thread too far in discussing Hilton policies, but my experience corroborates MIKESILV. I've used the Diamond Force a number of times. In each case, the rep contacted the property, waited for them to approve converting a paid stay to an award, and then responded to me. The most recent experience was last year in Singapore during the Air Show, when the town was virtually sold out. Here is my experience of policy by chain:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/787139-getting-room-when-town-sold-out-comparing-top-tier-benefits-chain.html

I don't want to divert this thread too far in discussing Hilton policies, but my experience corroborates MIKESILV. I've used the Diamond Force a number of times. In each case, the rep contacted the property, waited for them to approve converting a paid stay to an award, and then responded to me. The most recent experience was last year in Singapore during the Air Show, when the town was virtually sold out. Here is my experience of policy by chain:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/787139-getting-room-when-town-sold-out-comparing-top-tier-benefits-chain.html

Good to know, thanks. I just called HH D Desk and they said pretty much the same thing as you did. Glad to see HH came through for you while in Singapore, 25K HH points vs. 18 Hyatt points is a no-brainer as each Hyatt point is worth even more than SPG point on a 1 to 1 basis. In any event, your observation does show SPG is by far the worst when it comes to the room guarantee availability, which is ironic considering SPG was the original brand which revolutionized the industry with their no blackout and no capacity control on award slogan - it worked great for them until they started to backpedal as members started to soak in SPG points through credit cards. Now that other chains caught up and even improved on where SPG left off, this is an area where being a Hilton or Hyatt Diamond (top elite) beats SPG Platinum significantly.

I usually like to use a few extra points and book an upgraded room on an award stay. So I called SPG central res and asked to book an award stay at the Westin Verasa in Napa, CA. I had booked two previous award stays there over the past year and had been very pleased with the hotel.

Before I even gave her the dates I wanted, the agent began to laugh. When I asked why she was laughing, she said it was almost impossible to ever get an award stay there. I indicated I had done so twice previously but she went on to say that the hotel only made standard rooms available for awards and they were almost always sold out, at least in the summer. She was right - there were no award rooms available for the time I wanted.

Fortunately I had plenty of Hilton HHonors points and booked a room at Embassy Suites.

I was just there two weekends ago on a free night award, booked only a few weeks prior. It does have a limited number of award eligible rooms, but it is not as impossible as the res agent is implying.

One agent having an unfortunate string of experiences over a few months where every caller asking for a date at this hotel was unable to secure a room is not a statistically valid look - it is anecdotal.

Use the website booking system to look for dates when award stays are offered - then either book it online or call.

Remember that inventory is dynamic. Someone may have just cancelled an award or paid stay in the standard room, or the hotel may have opened some inventory which they had previously been reserving based on an estimate of demand but now find they are not getting the booking levels they expected.

Look from time to time, you may get lucky with almost any property.

I think JerryF's problem was more about an agent laughing at him instead of simply doing her job, rather than the impossibility of his booking. At least that's what the title of the thread seems to imply, and most replies here are OT.

When I read JerryF's post, particularly this part:

"Before I even gave her the dates I wanted, the agent began to laugh. When I asked why she was laughing, she said it was almost impossible to ever get an award stay there. I indicated I had done so twice previously but she went on to say that the hotel only made standard rooms available for awards and they were almost always sold out, at least in the summer. She was right - there were no award rooms available for the time I wanted.

Fortunately I had plenty of Hilton HHonors points and booked a room at Embassy Suites. "

To me, this reads as someone commenting on unavailability. He is not complaining about being laughed at. Thus, I don't think my post was OT at all.

I suspect that the troubles with award bookings at this property had a lot to do with the Q2 promo driving up demand. There were a lot of people looking to burn their free nights and it stands to reason that the Westin Napa was probably one of the more popular choices in Northern California. Combine that with a lot of people in CA with free nights that need to be used in a relatively short period of time (many of whom were looking to stay close to home) and the fact that the property doesn't have a lot of standard rooms and you have a recipe for disappointment. Since these reservations could only be made by calling in, the CSRs end up delivering a lot more bad news than usual. It took me a few attempts to use one of my free nights in Napa and I initially encountered a PC who vocalized some frustration with his inability to get guests into the Westin with their free nights.

Also from what I heard they only have like six traditional rooms...

I was considering this property too, but didn't have any luck. Probably a couple weeks ago I just called the hotel to see if they had in-house reservations thinking that if they did their availability might be different than what shows up on SPG.com. I didn't mention anything about using free weekend nights, but just inquired about a "weekend" getaway. Initially I asked about the same weekend, but was told only premium rooms were available for $xxx. I then inquired when they had "standard" rooms available and the first available date was the first weekend in November!

Just my 2 cents.

Also from what I heard they only have like six traditional rooms...

See post #11 from Starwood Lurker.

I booked this hotel on Saturday, August 22 for Sunday, August 23 using a free night award earned from the SPG free weekends. The trick that I learned from FlyerTalk anecdotes is to check 48 hours ahead. The hotel was available on Friday and Saturday for Sunday free nights. Napa can easily be over 100 degrees in August, so I jumped at the chance to take the trip over the weekend when the temperature was only in the 70s.

I thoroughly enjoyed the stay. The hotel upgraded me to a suite with full kitchen and balcony overlooking pool and hills. I'll post a review and loads of photos sometime this week on Loyalty Traveler blog.

After touring other hotels in Napa like Napa Marriott, Embassy Suites, Hilton Garden Inn, Best Western, and Springhill Suites, I can say with assurance that this hotel is by far the nicest of these properties. The Embassy Suites has a decent property, but the rooms are rather dark. Springhill Suites is a new property with large rooms, but in a business park with absolutely nothing else around.

My thought yesterday while basking in the sun at the empty pool was this property should have set up a reverse redemption to allow Monday-Thursday free nights rather than weekends.

I was able to get rooms midweek without a problem back in April, the hotel was pretty dead. Had a chat with a gentleman at the bar who turned out to be the GM of the property. Nice guy from Canada as the property is run by Intrawest.

He did share that there was rarely a problem to a room on points during the week, but weekends, holidays and harvest times are tough. They limit the standard rooms as they can sell the larger units during the demand times.

as always ymmv, i called a week early to check on free weekend night award availability and was told the hotel was booked solid for months, called again 2 days later and got a friday night stay and got an upgrade for a paid saturday night stay.

A property must have a standard room available in order to book an award room. This is not new.

Well, not exactly. There are certain properties that don't have standard rooms at all, but are still available to book via points: W Maldives, Mystique, etc.

If the property does have standard rooms, availabilty of those is the 'key' to getting in the door on points.