DiningBuzz! - Regionally tied foods - Worth it for the original?

Along the same lines as the "organic" discussion, do you tend to search for and pay a premium for the certified regionally-linked foods?

For example, do you notice a large difference between Proccuitto di Parma than from U.S. raised and produced proccuitto? Same for Hass avocados vs. regular avocados? Roquefort vs. blue cheese?

There is a lot of time, money, and political power spent to promote and protect these regional, or "geographically" linked foods. It seems to be a big deal in Europe but I was curious what people here thought of it.

Thanks

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For sure.... In most cases DOC makes a huge difference and is well worth the premium.

There are times where the regional produce/product doesn't taste different but there are more than a few examples of when they do.

Try the Isigny-sur-Mer butter and try the best butter you can find otherwise, and note the difference. It's more than just very good and has its own taste.

As for Parma ham, it's not just proscuitto, but proscuitto made of (a specified breed of) pigs fed whey. I find the proscuitto ham made in Canada has a much coarser grain than the Italian product.

Cheese made in the U.S. generally doesn't even come close to the cheeses it tries to imitate.

And of course, there's something in real champagne that the stuff grown elsewhere just doesn't taste the same (like wine from a given varietal doesn't taste the same as the same varietal, or even the same clone of the varietal, grown elsewhere.

I haven't tried it enough but I'm not sure if there is that much of a difference between milk and cream from Jersey and Guernsey (Channel Island) cows in the Channel Islands over the same cows elsewhere. Same can be said of mozzarella di buffele from the DOC regions in Italy over the cheese made from the same breed of buffaloes elsewhere.

Funny, had you asked the question without examples, my first two choices of a tremendous difference would be prosciutto and cheeses.

And what we get here in many cases is vastly inferior to what you can get where it's made that is not made for the export market.

Good point about local product vs. export market product. In many cases, the for local product of a given DOC region is much better than the for export DOC product. German sausage & cold cuts are a prime example... then you have the entire fresh dairy products... Roquefort and also true Italian Mascarpone come to mind just now.

Another classic example is Dulce de Leche... once you've tried the real thing in EZE, and made for local consumption (in a special cardboard cylinder), you will not go near the for export canned stuff.

Funny, had you asked the question without examples, my first two choices of a tremendous difference would be prosciutto and cheeses.

And what we get here in many cases is vastly inferior to what you can get where it's made that is not made for the export market.

Dutch cheeses that are exported are usually much saltier and drier (less creamy?) than the domestic offerings (other than buying stale cheese at Schiphol duty free). Exported cheeses from Switzerland also are of a lower quality the inspectors will not let sold domestically.

Thanks for the responses! Enlightening.
Along the same lines, a lot of people are familier with the European geographical products (GIs), but are there many US based foods that people find are better from a certain region? I am not just asking about the ones that are heavily promoted (Idaho potatoes, Florida Orange, etc.) but also foods that less well known, but that in your experience, are better when grown/produced in a certain area of the US?

For me, I definitely think Florida oranges have a superior taste to, say, Brazillian oranges. Not sure I notice the difference in Idaho potatoes though.

I am trying to develop into a foodie, and the regional aspect of foods fascinates me.

Thanks!

Dutch cheeses that are exported are usually much saltier and drier (less creamy?) than the domestic offerings (other than buying stale cheese at Schiphol duty free). Exported cheeses from Switzerland also are of a lower quality the inspectors will not let sold domestically.

It's interesting that they export a lower quality product. You would think that Switzerland would want to have the same quality world over to increase demand. Sending out a lower quality version could lead those not familiar with the domestic product to think, "doesn't live up to the hype." Maybe it's a technological reason to keep it preserved, but if it's purely because they consider it not fit to serve in domestically, I think they are doing the cheese producers a diservice in the long run by selling an inferior product as "Swiss" cheese.

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Another couple of products that are very Origin sensitive include....

Kobe Beef
Foi Gras
Caviar
Truffles
Wild Mushrooms
Grass Fed Beef

a great example of something that is not origin-sensitive is sourdough bread. the stuff in SF is no better, and sometimes worse, than anywhere else.

Goodness, YES!

Rice from Calasparra in Murcia, Spain (Balilla x Solana)

and

certain rice varieties from Japan (for the moment we're able to get a variety of Akita Komachi which feels like iridescent bubbles as soon as you immerse the grains)

Sure, there are substitutes, and we're happy to use those whenever we need them, but the pleasure these 'original' versions bring is very real and palpable. So we fork out the premium for them and consider it money well spent.

Other originals we use regularly (or try to) are
Maldon Sea Salt
saffron from La Mancha (pricier but more economical than cheaper kinds from other countries as the colour and flavour are more intense)
Japanese soy sauce (and when, in addition to this, you can get this from a producer such as Kamebishi which makes it in the traditional way, the difference is staggering)
Traditionally made miso (again, there are producers in Japan who will make it in the traditional manner. I still haven't tasted a miso made outside Japan that comes close, unfortunately, "made in Japan" in itself is no guarantee of taste or quality for this product)
Dried pasta (pasta made outside Italy inevitably disappoints, but even dried pasta from Italy isn't always up to par)
Fish sauce from Vietnam

I've stuck entirely to kitchen staples here

I would say there is a difference, but the question of if the original is worth more is not so easy. Take for example, products that are specifically altered yet not renamed for the market in which they are sold.

The example of cheese is a good one. The US cheeses are far and away perfect for the US market. Imitation is often not the goal so much as citation of a known brand/origin/influence and then a modification for the palate of the target customer base. Of course wandering into a cheese shop in France or Switzerland or Germany is something else entirely.

I wonder if we as a group of travelers are perhaps poor examples to answer the OP’s question. The simple fact is we fly for even less of an excuse than because we wanted to eat a certain kind of cheese. ;) I have flown from my home in Tokyo for a decent Reuben at Katz’s because it cannot be so readily had elsewhere. And the trip made perfect sense to me too. Another way to look at it is the likelihood of us even knowing what the original tastes like is so much greater given our travel habits.

In Tokyo I find there are certain things that the US is known for that I always seek the original of because the Japanese equivalent is so awful. Simple things though really. A good example is Peanut Butter. Or Jam. The local Peanut Butter is sweetened and made to fit the local idea that is a spread for bread/pastry as opposed to a integral part of a very popular sandwich. And they the jam produced here is, besides being either strawberry or blueberry only, so lacking in flavor but awash in sugar that one literally runs to a supermarket to by boutique preserves from the US. And this is in a country with stunningly good fruit.

The sourdough comment above though was one that surprises me if the poster is from the City. There is no where else on the planet that does sourdough nearly as well as the City. Not by a long shot. A bit like bagel from anywhere but New York.

Another way to look at it is the likelihood of us even knowing what the original tastes like is so much greater given our travel habits. Don't be so sure of that. You should see the "Do you like Paella?" thread. :D

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a great example of something that is not origin-sensitive is sourdough bread. the stuff in SF is no better, and sometimes worse, than anywhere else.

Here in EZE, sourdough is hard to find but the one place in town that I know does do it right.

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Here in EZE, sourdough is hard to find but the one place in town that I know does do it right.

Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis doesn´t survive anywhere else outside of the SF Bay air, so while some places may make good sourdough, it will taste differently, even if theoretically the same recipe.

As far as some of the other items mentioned, I am puzzled about a few - Hass avocado isn´t an original anything, it is just a certain species of avocado. Roquefort cheese may be different than other blue cheeses, but it isn´t necessarily the original.

I agree that some "originals" made for the export market just aren´t worth the money because they often aren´t as good, and the local product I have available is better - it may be different, but it is better. Besides, eating the original when I am traveling to the original´s place keeps it special. I don´t need to spend a fortune for a slice of italian or spanish ham, of a brand that the US deems safe for me to eat, packaged in an airtight wrap for who knows how long, stored and shipped in who knows what conditions, when it isn´t even going to come close to what I see hanging in Madrid, that I smell when I walk in the store.
Even things like chocolates (supposedly fresh and flown in) somehow don´t taste the same as when I might buy them in Brussels.

The variations in poi can be tremendous depending on where the taro is grown. Those who don't think they like poi should try poi that is produced in one specific are of Kaua`i -- Hanalei Bay -- and they may change their minds.

And if we grant that "TexMex" food is its own food category (we can debate "authenticity" elsewhere :D) I have never found really, really good TexMex outside of the little no-name restaurants and cafes that dot Texas and where even the bad TexMex is good :D

(El Charro, in Lafayette, California, comes close, but it's still not like those ubiquitous places all over west Texas)

lets get really simple. rice e bici ain't no good unless it is wavie rice(Arborio or Vialone Nano) and spring peas that grow only in that area.

neopolitan pizza requires san marzano tomatoes from a specific place. it is easier to blind taste san marzano sauce than Bordeaux vs Argentinean malbac.(from s. balbo)

the list goes on. had that fish soupy dish in cassis. didn't even know how to eat it.

(El Charro, in Lafayette, California, comes close, but it's still not like those ubiquitous places all over west Texas)

Oh boy. My SO lives in Lafayette. El Charro has positively mediocre food. Yikes.

By the way, the answer, clearly, is that you need enough cole slaw to cover a barbecue sandwich.

Shall I tell you they are making wine in china now? Now I'd run away from those!

Anyway, yes- Japanese-grown rice is way ahead of any of its breed grown elsewhere.

Shall I tell you they are making wine in china now? Now I'd run away from those!


Ahh yes, "Great Wall Shiraz", I bought a bottle of that in Dandong for my train ride to Beijing. Run far far away.;)

Oh boy. My SO lives in Lafayette. El Charro has positively mediocre food. Yikes.

Disagree :)

(El Charro, in Lafayette, California, comes close, but it's still not like those ubiquitous places all over west Texas)

I ate there once. It was years ago. It could have been an off day, or all the central CC Co. folks have disabled taste buds. I'm not sure :D

As far as some of the other items mentioned, I am puzzled about a few - Hass avocado isn´t an original anything, it is just a certain species of avocado. Roquefort cheese may be different than other blue cheeses, but it isn´t necessarily the original.


I realize I was too loose in my wording. I should not have used the word "original" when I really meant foods/drinks whose name is synonomous with the place in which they are grown or produced (Champagne, Roqeufort, Vidalia Onions, Mowbrey Pork Pies, Serrano Ham, Kalamata Olives, Colombian coffee). [I was too quick to write Hass avocados. As was pointed out, Hass is a variety, not a region]

What these foods have in common is that they don't identify a particular company or grower, but rather a region that is famous for the product. Also, imitations of these products are possible (one can purchase blue cheese modeled after Roquefort, or coffee grown from Arabica beans as Colombian coffee is).

The belief in these regions is that, although the variety can be produced elsewhere, something in that regions collective expertise, soil, air, or techniques, inbues a special characteristic in the famous version from that region that makes it better than an imitation from anywhere else.

Obviously there is some variation among producers in each of these regions, but the assumption is that, when faced with choosing between unknown producers, one will go with a producer from a famous region versus one making an imitation from an unknown local.

For instance, all other things being equal, and when choosing between unknown producers, would you be more inclined to pay a premium for a bottle of Champagne from the Champagne region versus a bottle of sparkling wine from somewhere else? Or would you pay a premium for a cheese from Roqeufort versus one that says "blue cheese similar to roquefort?"

Thanks

the best korean food in the world, no question about it, is in los angeles. my spouse claims that it's because the ingredients are higher quality than in korea; personally, i think it's because korean food in LA is made the way it was meant to be made - by central americans.

(Champagne, Roqeufort, Vidalia Onions, Mowbrey Pork Pies, Serrano Ham, Kalamata Olives, Colombian coffee).

Also, imitations of these products are possible (one can purchase blue cheese modeled after Roquefort, or coffee grown from Arabica beans as Colombian coffee is).



one will go with a producer from a famous region versus one making an imitation from an unknown local.

would you be more inclined to pay a premium for a bottle of Champagne from the Champagne region versus a bottle of sparkling wine from somewhere else? Or would you pay a premium for a cheese from Roqeufort versus one that says "blue cheese similar to roquefort?"

Thanks

Roqeufort ain't BLUE it's GREEN. if you cannot tell the difference between blue & green, i assure you.........

arabica beans are not native to columbia. columbian coffee (sorry columbians) is not particularly good, when compared to many others about the world. other bubblies are as good as champagne, but champagne from france does provide a certain guarantee. just most label drinkers don't know anything else. vidalia's grow in a particular DOC.(whatever the americans call it) they have a quality about them. not that are better than the sweet onions grown it texas, washington, or hawaii. it is a quality guarantee.

there are many great hams. each has a style. each can be identified by a name.

san marzano tomatoes from a limited district must be used to make a particular pizza in naples. san marzano tomato sauce, even from my washington dc tomatoes is far superior to any other i have ever tried to generate. i have not had the opportunity to taste the italian sauce from the san marzano doc.

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Shall I tell you they are making wine in china now? Now I'd run away from those!


Ahh yes, "Great Wall Shiraz", I bought a bottle of that in Dandong for my train ride to Beijing. Run far far away.;)

Great Wall Wine.... :eek:

Scary stuff... :eek:

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(Champagne, Roqeufort, Vidalia Onions, Mowbrey Pork Pies, Serrano Ham, Kalamata Olives, Colombian coffee).

Also, imitations of these products are possible (one can purchase blue cheese modeled after Roquefort, or coffee grown from Arabica beans as Colombian coffee is).



one will go with a producer from a famous region versus one making an imitation from an unknown local.

would you be more inclined to pay a premium for a bottle of Champagne from the Champagne region versus a bottle of sparkling wine from somewhere else? Or would you pay a premium for a cheese from Roqeufort versus one that says "blue cheese similar to roquefort?"

Thanks

Roqeufort ain't BLUE it's GREEN. if you cannot tell the difference between blue & green, i assure you.........

arabica beans are not native to columbia. columbian coffee (sorry columbians) is not particularly good, when compared to many others about the world. other bubblies are as good as champagne, but champagne from france does provide a certain guarantee. just most label drinkers don't know anything else. vidalia's grow in a particular DOC.(whatever the americans call it) they have a quality about them. not that are better than the sweet onions grown it texas, washington, or hawaii. it is a quality guarantee.

there are many great hams. each has a style. each can be identified by a name.

san marzano tomatoes from a limited district must be used to make a particular pizza in naples. san marzano tomato sauce, even from my washington dc tomatoes is far superior to any other i have ever tried to generate. i have not had the opportunity to taste the italian sauce from the san marzano doc.

LOL :D

Where did caviar (http://www.caviargalore.com) come from is my question? Who decided to eat fish eggs!!! Ga ross.

a great example of something that is not origin-sensitive is sourdough bread. the stuff in SF is no better, and sometimes worse, than anywhere else.

With sourdough, the issue is not origin.....but strain of yeast used to make it. I've eaten good and bad sourdough in the same city, depending upon whoses stain of yeast they were using.

Japanese-grown rice is way ahead of any of its breed grown elsewhere.

You do realize that when compared by blind tasting, Japanese consumers preferred California rice to their native grown varieties.... :D

You do realize that when compared by blind tasting, Japanese consumers preferred California rice to their native grown varieties.... :D

Source?

Was it a like for like blind tasting?

There are an awful lot of variables involved and Koshihikari grains grown in Niigata are not going to taste the same as koshihikari grains grown in warmer Kyushu or Koshihikari grains grown in California (which I've tasted from the Tamaki Gold company).

Perhaps Yamada Nishiki from Japan was used as a comparison. Who knows? It's amongst Japan's most celebrated and venerated rice varieties... but for brewers.


I bet that something similar could be organised by a Chinese PR company so that; when compared by blind tasting, French consumers preferred Chinese wine to their native bottled varieties....

Roqeufort ain't BLUE it's GREEN. if you cannot tell the difference between blue & green, i assure you.........

arabica beans are not native to columbia..

I think you may have missed the point (or I missed your humor). While Roqeufort may look "green", it is in a class of cheeses called "blue cheese" http://www.cheese-france.com/cheese/roquefort.htm; http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/28/AR2009012804071.html

As well, of course arabica beans are not native to Colombia. The point is that Colombian coffee is a protected type of coffee made from arabica beans. As a general matter, however, it is posisble to replicate Colombian coffee outside of Colombia, but it cannot be called Colombian coffee.

Dutch cheeses that are exported are usually much saltier and drier (less creamy?) than the domestic offerings (other than buying stale cheese at Schiphol duty free).
Funny. I personally find those more bland and less taste as oppose to saltier.

I think you may have missed the point (or I missed your humor). While Roqeufort may look "green", it is in a class of cheeses called "blue cheese" http://www.cheese-france.com/cheese/roquefort.htm; http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/28/AR2009012804071.html

As well, of course arabica beans are not native to Colombia. The point is that Colombian coffee is a protected type of coffee made from arabica beans. As a general matter, however, it is posisble to replicate Colombian coffee outside of Colombia, but it cannot be called Colombian coffee.

i do not know how george bush classified roqeufort, but i don't think the king of france thinks it blue. as to the columbian coffee, it is as near as i know, the only mass produced arabica.

jamacian, & kona (neither of which i care for) are limited production and very expensive. the indian ocean and se asia arabicaz when dark roasted are also limited, and are my favorites. when i use the wrong one, wife says"what did you do to the coffee"?

there are oysters from the east coast, and then their are Lynnhavens. salmon, and then copper river salmon(almost anyone can tell that difference). I can easily blind taste the difference.

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Where did caviar (http://www.caviargalore.com) come from is my question? Who decided to eat fish eggs!!! Ga ross.

blasphemy!!

Originally Posted by mlshanks
You do realize that when compared by blind tasting, Japanese consumers [preferred] could not tell the difference between California rice to their native grown varieties....

Source?
Was it a like for like blind tasting?
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study_challenges_japanese_conceptions_of_u_s_rice

Apparently, the answer was yes.

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study_challenges_japanese_conceptions_of_u_s_rice

Apparently, the answer was yes.

Thanks!:)
(although this particular article doesn't answer my question, it just said short grains used in Japan were compared - which is pretty meaningless)

I did find more on this test elsewhere saying that koshihikari grains from Niigata were used and compared to this same variety grown in California as were Akita Komachi grains from Akita which were directly compared with Akita Komachi grains from California. This is what I was curious about.

But it makes an excellent point that one should never yield to perceived wisdom, it makes much more sense to figure out your preferences for yourself.

Those consumers who were tested were based in Japan and it was highly unlikely that any of them had ever eaten California grown rice before. But they came to the test already convinced that Japanese grown rice was far superior.

The reality is that, living in London, myself and my husband get a choice in rice that's denied to the great majority of Japanese consumers. We mostly buy American or Spanish grown Japanese grains and are genuinely happy with them for the most part. But I only need to switch to the particular brands of Japanese grown rice we get in addition to these and my husband 'magically' seems to notice. So we pay the premium for this rice as a supplemental treat.

But there is plenty of rice grown in Japan that isn't noticeably better/different and would never get picked out in a blind tasting at my house, so I would certainly agree that, despite kaka's comment, "grown in Japan" by itself is not a guarantee.