Frontier Airlines EarlyReturns (Pre-Alignment) - Republic WINS Frontier Bid

Just announced by Southwest, Republic Airways chosen as the winning bidder for Frontier.

More here:

http://www.streetinsider.com/Press+Releases/Frontier+Announces+Republic+Airways+Holdings+as+Wi nner+of+Auction/4875455.html

Congratulations F9 employees - I think this is a far better outcome for you.

And what do you know, I think the animal tails are here to stay!

Congratulations F9 employees - I think this is a far better outcome for you.

I'm happy for the animals, but doesn't Republic now have the ability to sell any assets it wants to Southwest and just lay off the employees? Couldn't Republic sell the high-value assets for $300M or more and just shut down the airline, pocketing a quick profit of $100M or more? Or is there a legal impediment?

Hopefully this will strengthen F9--its brand and its employees' future. Good luck to Frontier and Republic. Hope things work out for the best:)

I'm happy for the animals, but doesn't Republic now have the ability to sell any assets it wants to Southwest and just lay off the employees? Couldn't Republic sell the high-value assets for $300M or more and just shut down the airline, pocketing a quick profit of $100M or more? Or is there a legal impediment?

Once the transaction is finalized, Republic will own Frontier, so Republic could sell anything to anybody they wanted.

But, Republic has stated they intend to operate Frontier as a stand alone operation. F9 employees feel they have a better future with this approach, rather than the alternative of being stapled to the bottom of the WN employee applications. Who can really say what will happen?

This is an unbelievable upset victory for Republic -- achievable only through the dysfunctional nature of pilot unions (which, of course, only exist through a quirk in the law that allows these professionals to unionize). This was a slam dunk winner for Southwest's shareholders AND employees, and it fell through their grasp because they essentially put it to a vote of their pilots. As we've seen time and again, pilots are incapable of rationally deciding seniority issues. There are countless examples, but Exhibit A is the infighting at US Airways between the old America West pilots and the old US Airways pilots, and now this is firmly "Exhibit B."

It's also a slam dunk win for Frontier's customers, who get to keep their above-average airline -- and more competition in DEN. Whether it's a win for Frontier employees is a harder question. I guess that's an individual question as to whether you'd have a job with a Southwest merger, and the unknowable prospects of Republic now running the business.

I feel sorry for everyone at Southwest, but when David beats Goliath, you have to smile.

I for one am happy that Republic won. WN would have just gutted F9 and eliminated a competitor. This way fares will stay low and I actually do like assigned seats and in seat TV.
More competition to WN is a good thing, also it does keep them honest.
Whether F9 will stay around will depend how Republic handles the company. I don't see any synergies yet between them and F9.

Wonder if Republic will improve the worthless Early Returns program? I'd sure like to be able to use miles to go somewhere other than Fargo on a Wednesday night!

What will Republic do differently to make F9 a profitable airline?

What will Republic do differently to make F9 a profitable airline?

Do what it did to Midwest and cut routes/cities/jobs.

What will Republic do differently to make F9 a profitable airline?Supposedly F9 is profitable right now.

Wonder if Republic will improve the worthless Early Returns program? I'd sure like to be able to use miles to go somewhere other than Fargo on a Wednesday night!

Amen, Early returns has become "No returns". I am an F9 Summitt but prefer WN. At least my companion pass and Rapid rewards "Returns" vs. a seat to El Paso on Thursday! (oh they just cut El Paso in Sept.) OK, Fargo or Billings? F9 has shown profitablity due to planes being sold, wage concessions, and route cutbacks. If Republic makes changes it will be with management not early returns. republic has no track record running anything but Regional airline.

I'm happy for the animals, but doesn't Republic now have the ability to sell any assets it wants to Southwest and just lay off the employees? Couldn't Republic sell the high-value assets for $300M or more and just shut down the airline, pocketing a quick profit of $100M or more? Or is there a legal impediment?

NSX is on to something, Republic has to be thinking exactly what is stated in the post. Remember that Republic got screwed by F9 when it took BK, they had a $150 mil claim in BK against F9 for breach of contract for regional air craft. What keeps Republic from gutting F9, goodwill towards the freaking animals? This saga isn't over, stay tuned...............

Do what it did to Midwest and cut routes/cities/jobs.Republic does not own Midwest yet, Midwest was gutted under the supervision of their own management and subsequentlyTexas Pacific Group.

Republic does not own Midwest yet, Midwest was gutted under the supervision of their own management and subsequentlyTexas Pacific Group.

Republic does own Midwest. The sale was finalized several weeks ago.

last night, a F9 employee made the announcement over the A-concourse PA here in DEN.

this win gives republic an opportunity to fly mainline service instead of operating 100% for other carriers. i'm sure changes will occur, but you have to believe they will be for the better. frontier is profitable of late and will continue to recover from several early years of bad management.

and yes, please fix the early returns program. allow us to shop for award seats without needing the miles in our account. offer 5-10 more seats per flight. what good is a balance of 84,000 miles if i cannot use them for a worthy destination?

Republic does own Midwest. The sale was finalized several weeks ago.I didn't realize the sale had closed so quickly, but it doesn't change the important part of what I said, that it wasn't Republic that gutted Midwest, they were gutted when Republic them.

I didn't realize the sale had closed so quickly, but it doesn't change the important part of what I said, that it wasn't Republic that gutted Midwest, they were gutted when Republic them.

Absolutely correct! Midwest was gutted BEFORE Republic purchased them.

and yes, please fix the early returns program. allow us to shop for award seats without needing the miles in our account. offer 5-10 more seats per flight. what good is a balance of 84,000 miles if i cannot use them for a worthy destination?

Yes, this is true. Early Returns is currently useless. Award seats to almost any location are nonexistent. Makes NonePass look good.

I was just searching for reward seats last night. Of five different destinations I could not find one single award seat and I was looking at different days of the week, not just weekend or peak flying times. My 23,000 miles are virtually useless. This is the main reason I've only flown once on F9 this year, and the only reason I have a flight scheduled on them in another 8 days is because the departure time from Denver and Austin were better than WN or UAL.

I've never booked a reward ticket on WN yet, altho I've been told it's pretty easy and open. And I've booked several reward tickets on UAL without any issue short of maybe having to leave on the 6am flight instead of the 10am flight. If I could take a 6am flight with F9 I would.

And their "Choice" awards I think they call it. Why have that only available to ascent and summit members? I would have dropped 20,000 points on a one-way a couple months ago (if it still works like that), but I never bothered even checking for a regular one-way because I knew it was pointless.

/rant over.

I've never booked a reward ticket on WN yet, altho I've been told it's pretty easy and open.

Different people see this from different angles, but typically WN awards are reasonably available (one or more flight per day) outside Friday and Sunday or peak holiday weekends. If you have a large party traveling, it can still be difficult. Southwest has been opening award seats during the last 2 weeks, so you can usually improve your flight times before you travel.

This last feature is IMHO the best aspect of Rapid Rewards, but I expect it to disappear within a year when Rapid Rewards 2.0 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/southwest-rapid-rewards/840975-official-rapid-rewards-2-0-speculation-thread.html) arrives. If you are choosing an airline based on awards you expect to earn in late 2010 or later, don't bank on the current structure of Rapid Rewards.

Southwest does offer double-price awards with last seat availability about 350 days per year, but those are a poor value.

Republic probably hasn't spent a lot of time thinking about how to integrate its FF program yet. They have many more pressing challenges. We'll have to wait and see.

I was just searching for reward seats last night. Of five different destinations I could not find one single award seat and I was looking at different days of the week, not just weekend or peak flying times. My 23,000 miles are virtually useless. This is the main reason I've only flown once on F9 this year, and the only reason I have a flight scheduled on them in another 8 days is because the departure time from Denver and Austin were better than WN or UAL.

I've never booked a reward ticket on WN yet, altho I've been told it's pretty easy and open. And I've booked several reward tickets on UAL without any issue short of maybe having to leave on the 6am flight instead of the 10am flight. If I could take a 6am flight with F9 I would.

And their "Choice" awards I think they call it. Why have that only available to ascent and summit members? I would have dropped 20,000 points on a one-way a couple months ago (if it still works like that), but I never bothered even checking for a regular one-way because I knew it was pointless.

/rant over.

Fly a few more miles and have enough to book the higher level which is for any seat. Frontier's mileage requirements are still less than others.

Fly a few more miles and have enough to book the higher level which is for any seat. Frontier's mileage requirements are still less than others.

Yes, but earlier posts of complete lack of availability make this irrelevant! Lower miles but inability to use them are a value, how?! I recently used up 40K miles to fly to Kansas City at last minute. Wanted to make sure I got something for them, and was worried in a WN buyout they'd be lost.

I love F9, and want to see them survive and hopefully prosper. Growing their reliance on business travelers (classic seems to be a big revenue center for them), and then rewarding them with usable FF programs is key.

It is a temporary win for Denver passengers, as this will keep fares low with 3 major carriers in DEN (WN, UA, F9). But, with Southwest's web site reenforcing that their fares are $100 lower, through bag fees, than F9, I think its only a matter of time for F9. The in-flight product of F9 (Direct TV, primarily) does not justify paying the bag fees or the change fees.

I had been looking forward to convering my F9 ER miles into WN RR credits. I was hoping for a good conversion rate. Now I have to find some way, before the end of 2010 to keep my miles alive at F9 without actually (gasp) flying with them and those rip off bag fees. Redeeming miles on F9, if you can actually do it, and if you are flying with one or more paying pax usually is more expensive than flying on WN, due to the bag fees.

I predict a couple of years from now, WN will be buying F9 for a lower price.

I've flown F9 twice in the past year and both times they were considerably lower than Southwest. I flew from OMA - SAN and from MCI - LAS and both times with or without baggage fees, F9 was CONSIDERABLY less.

The San Diego trip, F9 was about $85 less per person I believe.

Republic does own Midwest. The sale was finalized several weeks ago.

I think the poster was saying that those changes were made before ownership changed.

I wonder if Frontier will expand with more flights out of KC and Milwaukee?

Fronter Airlines will survive! Southwest is great, profitable, fills a need for the young and restless. I have tried it and I don't like it! I like saving money but I don't shop at Goodwill, yet! Without Frontier, United will only make matters worse for Denver.

Fly a few more miles and have enough to book the higher level which is for any seat. Frontier's mileage requirements are still less than others.

40,000 miles for a roundtrip is not a good deal! I've never booked a flight domestically for over 25,000 miles on UAL and some for 20,000. I'll keep flying UAL as much as I can since I know I can use my miles.

I see lot's of complaints about the Early Rewards on this thread...With Republic's purchase of both Midwest (already signed sealed and delivered) and Frontier (obviously still to be processed), there is a hope that Republic will take the best of both airlines and standardize across both.

It has already been announced that Midwest Miles members can earn and redeem miles on Frontier starting in September...It has also basically been stated that the leadership of Frontier will be running both Midwest and Frontier...Midwest also brings along a codeshare with NW/Delta where you can already redeem miles on NW and will be able to redeem your Midwest Miles on Delta sometime in Q4 once the new combined NW/Delta codeshare agreement kicks in.

There are some real advantages to this purchase for F9 folks...also for those who fly Midwest Airlines who could see Frontier's infrastructure (planes) used to expand service out of Milwaukee and Kansas City...Maybe Midwest folks will start to see DirecTV on planes.