Travel Technology - iPhone use in Paris

I have spent considerable time reviewing much of the discussion on this topic and cannot synthesize a decision. So here goes......

I will spend a month in Paris and will use my phone mostly for local calls, text messages, etc. Calls to the US will likely be VOIP (Skype), although I may occasionally not have access to Wifi.

Options that I have gleaned from this forum:

1. Unlock the (USA purchased) iPhone and use a local SIM card. I have ATT and am reasonably happy with it, so no intent to change carriers when I return. What are the implications of/problem with unlocking - legal, practical, otherwise?

2. Purchase an ATT international plan. Can I do that for 6 weeks?

3. Buy or use an old unlocked phone. Not a very attractive option since I have addresses, etc on my iPhone.

Sorry for rehashing what is probably already here somewhere, but any advice (especially regarding #1) would be appreciated.

In France the iPhone is not sim-locked, AFAIK! Sell your current iphone, if possible, for a reasonable amount of cash, and buy an iphone in France unlocked, maybe used, and the use it while you are there and bring it home with you...

Not sure how warrenty then works... Guess it is a "french iphone" then... But surely pssible!

You know my answer. Do the software unlock. I've done two of them, and it's very easy.

The ramifications are that if Apple thinks you unlocked it, I don't think they will honor the warranty. but the unlock is not destructive and you can put the phone into DFU mode at any time to revert it back to the Apple firmware and they would have no way of knowing that you ever changed it. As part of the jailbreak, you will have a copy of the stock firmware on your laptop already, and you just use itunes to restore it from DFU mode if you ever need to do that.

If you do the sw jailbreak/unlock then you need to be careful about updating itunes and you can't allow itunes to update the firmware on the phone. When there's a new OS release, you have to wait for the dev team to catch up. It usually doesn't take long for them to catch up. You can just follow the top posts on their blog when there's a new OS or itunes release to see what they say about it.

iclarified.com has decent tutorials for jailbreak/unlock.

The dev team blog is here: http://blog.iphone-dev.org/

-David

I'm not the most tech savvy guy...by a long shot. But I don't understand the need to unlock or do anything else special for Paris. I spent two weeks there last Fall with my ATT Iphone, no problems. Turn off "data roaming" and yes, you can sign up for a country specific international calling plan for a month at a time. IIRC, it's @ $5 per month. I've done it several times for France, Ireland, Grenada, et al. Just call them before you leave, and can cancel as soon as returning home. No contract here, it's simply a monthly service.

Calls back to the US were billed @ 99 cents/min, not an issue if using Skype, as OP stated.

Calls back to the US were billed @ 99 cents/min, not an issue if using Skype, as OP stated.

And what were local calls made within Paris? That's the point of unlocking - you can then buy pre-paid SIM cards from countless wireless providers in whatever country you visit, have a local number for that country and generally far less expensive local calls and texts during your stay abroad. Whether this is best for you really depends on how much you expect to use the phone or text.

And of course if someone needs to call you from the US or you need to call them, just use Skype or any other inexpensive VoIP solution.

I'm not the most tech savvy guy...by a long shot. But I don't understand the need to unlock or do anything else special for Paris.

Yes, you are correct. It's not a necessity. It just gives you more money saving options.

OP presented a list of options and asked about each one.

tech-savy or not, anybody can do the unlock. It really is that simple.

-David

Yes, you are correct. It's not a necessity. It just gives you more money saving options.

OP presented a list of options and asked about each one.

tech-savy or not, anybody can do the unlock. It really is that simple.-David

And what were local calls made within Paris? That's the point of unlocking - you can then buy pre-paid SIM cards from countless wireless providers in whatever country you visit, have a local number for that country and generally far less expensive local calls and texts during your stay abroad. Whether this is best for you really depends on how much you expect to use the phone or text.

And of course if someone needs to call you from the US or you need to call them, just use Skype or any other inexpensive VoIP solution.

Makes sense, Guys, thanks for teaching me something!

I know I'm in the minority around here, but here goes. I resist calls to unlock my iPhone. Worrying about iTunes, software upgrades, and having Apple say I voided my warranty don't seem like fun to me. And by swapping SIM cards all the time, it means that you can only make/receive calls from whichever number is active at the time.

When I go to Spain for weeks at a time, I take a second cheap phone (which never was locked to a carrier) and put a local SIM card in it. It's less about the money than it is to have a local number. My friends in Spain don't want to call a US number to ask me to pick up a loaf of bread on my way home. And when my Italian friend comes here, it makes me crazy that he makes me call an Italian cell number if I want to go for a drink with him.

I find that there's really just a handful of numbers I use when I'm in another city. It's not really a big deal to put them into the phone.

This discussion is very helpful, although I have not decided what to do.

A question: if I unlock and buy a local SIM card in Paris, will the mail, contacts, calendar, etc still work as they do now?

I should add that I currently use three email accounts (two Comcast, and my work email is via Entourage, which also updates my calendar automatically).

There is no reason for the average user to unlock their iPhone - the downsides (primarily a complete lack of support going forward and the potential to be excluded from any future software updates) significantly outweigh the benefits. Buy a cheap $10 Nokia phone online that is unlocked and use that when traveling with a local SIM.

The technical ease of performing the upgrade is irrelevant.

This discussion is very helpful, although I have not decided what to do.

A question: if I unlock and buy a local SIM card in Paris, will the mail, contacts, calendar, etc still work as they do now?

I should add that I currently use three email accounts (two Comcast, and my work email is via Entourage, which also updates my calendar automatically).

Yeah, they should no problem. What you typically want to do is take a backup using itunes first. If necessary, you can restore your settings from the backup after doing the jailbreak and unlock. (this is the normal iphone backup/restore of settings, etc in itunes, not to be confused with restore of the OS firmware in itunes.)

it's still a good idea to have a copy of those setting just in case you need to reenter them manually in any event (unlock or not).

Are you already running OS 3.0 or 3.0.1 on your iphone? If not, you can do that upgrade first if you want to. You will end up doing it anyway.

-David

There is no reason for the average user to unlock their iPhone - the downsides (primarily a complete lack of support going forward and the potential to be excluded from any future software updates) significantly outweigh the benefits. Buy a cheap $10 Nokia phone online that is unlocked and use that when traveling with a local SIM.

The technical ease of performing the upgrade is irrelevant.

Or buy a slightly more expensive unlocked nokia, install jokuspot on it, and you will turn your Nokia into a virtual hotspot which you can pair with your iPhone and push data to it that way. Or buy an unlocked Nokia e63 which is a cheapish unlocked smartphone. If you have subscribed to Mobile Me, you sync all your information from your iPhone to it. It will also support jokuspot.

I think international is the achiles heal of the iPhone. If you are on an ATT foundation (corporate account) there is a little published unlimited international data plan for iPhone (cruise ships, Saudi Arabia, and a few countries excluded -- but well beyond the 60 on their consumer international data plan). It works like the Blackberry International plan. There is an old thread on it in ATT's official forum - international section.

i hate to sort of hijack the post- but i will be in paris next month and since where i'm staying does not have wi-fi ,or didnt last time i was there last year, i sense that it would be useful to have an iphone with a 3g network.
i am with att now anyway. the problem is the horror stories i have hear about the bills when you arrive back home. if you have to turn off the data, then you dont get to use the features of the iphone, or is that included in their international plan or not?
is there in anyones opinion another 3g friendly device that is preferable?
i am very confused about all this so some help would be appreciated.

I think international is the achiles heal of the iPhone. If you are on an ATT foundation (corporate account) there is a little published unlimited international data plan for iPhone (cruise ships, Saudi Arabia, and a few countries excluded -- but well beyond the 60 on their consumer international data plan). It works like the Blackberry International plan. There is an old thread on it in ATT's official forum - international section.

$65/mo for "unlimited" (ie 5GB like domestic "unlimited) data access. I just got it recently. It requires a 1-year committment, but if you know you're spending more than a few weeks out of the country, it's worth it, especially considering the ala carte option is ~$50/50MB/month.

There is no reason for the average user to unlock their iPhone

aside from being able to use our iPhones overseas at reasonable rates? And ad useful services like Google voice?>

the locked iPhone is like a Porsche governed to 70mph. It looks cool but doesn't do much.

Not iphone specific but I recently returned from Paris.

While there I used a SIM purchased from callineurope.com

They can provide a local US number that you call fwd your NA cell phone and it rings through to your French cell number

They are also the only non-contract way (that I know of) to access blackberry BES data. Data rates are .005$ per KB.

My bill for 10 days of heavy use was 85$. I estimate it would have been 600-700$ had I used my NA SIM card (roger's)

aside from being able to use our iPhones overseas at reasonable rates? And ad useful services like Google voice?>

the locked iPhone is like a Porsche governed to 70mph. It looks cool but doesn't do much.
Not a good analogy at all I'm afraid. More accurate (again, keep in mind I'm talking about the average user here) analogy would be that the unlocked, jail-broken iPhone is like a Porsche without the limiter, but with the wheel nuts loosened and the warranty card torn up :). All it takes is a little bad luck and you are.... well.... in trouble :)

Of course there is a place for unlocking and jail-breaking iPhones - but this is absolutely not the typical end user who wants a few cheaper call charges. My single point in all of this is that it's setting a dangerous precedent to immediately suggest this as a solution.

All it takes is a little bad luck and you are.... well.... in trouble :)


See, I just don't understand that. If you can turn the iphone on, you can revert it back to the Apple firmware using DFU mode, which is simple to do. It's about as complicated as resetting an ipod. And if it is working, you don't need to put it into DFU mode to restore the stock firmware. It's just a normal itunes operation.

If it doesn't turn on, then it doesn't matter. They have no way of knowing you changed the firmware.

I agree that there's more than one valid opinion here, and I have no problem with that, but the warranty issue is more fear than fact.

You are certainly correct, you do not want to take your jailbroken/unlocked otherwise working iphone to the Apple store because of a problem. If you need to take it in, you must put the stock firmware on it first. I guess I'm having some difficulty figuring out a scenario where you can't restore it to stock firmware first.

-David

Maybe *world works for AT&T or Apple? Thats the only conceivable reason he/she could be so adamantly against unlocking the iPhone.

If it doesn't turn on, then it doesn't matter. They have no way of knowing you changed the firmware.

A friend's six month old iPhone was acting sluggish so he decided to do a factory reset. It wasn't jailbroken or anything. He didn't plug it in to the charger and didn't notice the battery was at about 20%. During the reset (which takes over an hour) the phone died and was bricked. When he went to Apple, they wouldn't exchange it as a warranty problem. I'm pretty sure they assumed he had been fooling around with some kind of software modification.

Of course my friend is an idiot for not plugging the phone into the charger, but his little mistake cost him $200.

A friend's six month old iPhone was acting sluggish so he decided to do a factory reset. It wasn't jailbroken or anything. He didn't plug it in to the charger and didn't notice the battery was at about 20%. During the reset (which takes over an hour) the phone died and was bricked. When he went to Apple, they wouldn't exchange it as a warranty problem. I'm pretty sure they assumed he had been fooling around with some kind of software modification.

Of course my friend is an idiot for not plugging the phone into the charger, but his little mistake cost him $200.

So that's a reason not to jailbreak/unlock an iphone? Because AT&T refused to honor the warranty for a reason that you said had nothing to do with jailbreaking/unlocking an iphone? Because your friend is an idiot?

ok, the world has gone completely mad.

I hope your friend sues AT&T in small claims court. He's certainly out a lot more than $200 if he purchased it on contract and the only thing he did was try to reset it. (It takes an hour? No it doesn't.)

Fortunately, I will assume that intelligent people can make up their own minds. I never said there was only one side to this.

-David

Maybe *world works for AT&T or Apple?

I'm not going to assume that. People are afraid of it. These include both normal non-technical people and technical people that think that something could go horribly wrong if they try it.

It's not rational if you ask me. I'm sure they've never tried it, because if they did, they would understand it.

-David

So that's a reason not to jailbreak/unlock an iphone? Because AT&T refused to honor the warranty for a reason that you said had nothing to do with jailbreaking/unlocking an iphone? Because your friend is an idiot?

the only thing he did was try to reset it. (It takes an hour? No it doesn't.)

What I'm saying is that if it's dead it's dead. You can't prove you didn't drop it or mess with the software. If they gave out a new phone whenever someone brought in a phone they'd be handing out phones like candy. I don't like their position, but I understand it.

And doing a wipe and reset does take an hour. I've done it myself. Pardon me if I wasn't clear. I didn't mean the 'two button' thing.

What I'm saying is that if it's dead it's dead. You can't prove you didn't drop it or mess with the software.

Yes, it's impossible to prove a negative.

I think it's the other way around. They have to prove with evidence that you did something (like dropped it in water, causing evidence of water damage, inside or out) that voided the warranty. They can't just decide not to honor the warranty based on suspicion. Unless people let them get away with that.

-David

A friend's six month old iPhone was acting sluggish so he decided to do a factory reset. It wasn't jailbroken or anything. He didn't plug it in to the charger and didn't notice the battery was at about 20%. During the reset (which takes over an hour) the phone died and was bricked. When he went to Apple, they wouldn't exchange it as a warranty problem. I'm pretty sure they assumed he had been fooling around with some kind of software modification.

Of course my friend is an idiot for not plugging the phone into the charger, but his little mistake cost him $200.

Apple stores give snooty shoddy service. What's new about that?

I forget I'm dealing with the average Apple user.

Maybe *world works for AT&T or Apple? Thats the only conceivable reason he/she could be so adamantly against unlocking the iPhone.
I'm not going to assume that. People are afraid of it. These include both normal non-technical people and technical people that think that something could go horribly wrong if they try it.

It's not rational if you ask me. I'm sure they've never tried it, because if they did, they would understand it.

-David
:D Not even close - very far from it, in fact. And this is not coming from a position of ignorance in any way, I have both an iPod touch and iPhone and have happily "jail-broken" (is that a word??) them both. I am extremely familiar with the technology, and what works, and doesn't.

However I'm also extremely familiar with the "average" user of these products. I had to laugh when I read the above quote: If you can turn the iphone on, you can revert it back to the Apple firmware using DFU mode, which is simple to do.

Right. The average user is going to work this out? I don't think so.

Once again, I don't know why it would be so difficult not to just use that $10 Nokia (or whatever) phone, which has practically zero in terms of software or complications to worry about, and the conversion process to any new country is approx. the 5 second process that it takes to drop in a new SIM card. Keep the iPhone for whenever you have access to a WiFi network.

For the average user, I really don't see any other strategy.

For the average user, I really don't see any other strategy.

If your so-called average user doesn't mind a strategy that includes carrying 2 phones around the world, sure, that's fine, I suppose. But if somebody doesn't, and they want to use their own sim and they are willing to research it, it's trivial and you know it, if you've done the jailbreak recently using redsn0w.

And yeah, figuring out how to use DFU mode (which is not even normally necessary to revert the firmware back to the stock firmware, if the phone boots up, you can simply use itunes to do it) as about as complicated as when the average user needs to research how to reset an ipod. http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=1034

oh, I forgot, you have to count to 10.

I really don't know how we got on this average user thing. I really don't care what the average user does. I was responding to the OP and people that read this forum. This average user argument is finished for me. You are correct, I was never speaking to the so-called average user.

Time to steer this thread away from the exit to OMNIville and decide what to do.

Latest plan: Unlock* my iPhone so that I can use a SIM card with a local number (for ease of communicating with friends and colleagues in Paris). Subscribe to boingo (or something else?) to get wifi for other apps such as GoogleMaps, email, skype, etc. Will this work?

*Am I correct that I need only unlock my iPhone to use another SIM card? If so, then I have no compelling reason to jail-break the phone for other apps. Am I missing something?

Thanks

*Am I correct that I need only unlock my iPhone to use another SIM card? If so, then I have no compelling reason to jail-break the phone for other apps. Am I missing something?

Thanks


Uh, no. It is nowhere near that simple. The whole purpose of unlocking is to be able to use other sim cards. You'll need to unlock it through one of the tricks found online, or find an official unlocked iPhone somewhere.

Latest plan: Unlock* my iPhone so that I can use a SIM card with a local number (for ease of communicating with friends and colleagues in Paris). Subscribe to boingo (or something else?) to get wifi for other apps such as GoogleMaps, email, skype, etc. Will this work?

yes

*Am I correct that I need only unlock my iPhone to use another SIM card? If so, then I have no compelling reason to jail-break the phone for other apps. Am I missing something?

currently, the only way to unlock an iphone is to jailbreak it and then unlock it. you don't need to install any jailbreak apps if you don't want to.

the only issue is that apple considers the warranty to be voided, so if it needs service for whatever reason, you will need to restore an official firmware which will un-jailbreak it.

which iphone do you have and what firmware is it running? the unlocking has become trickier with each successive model.

currently, the only way to unlock an iphone is to jailbreak it and then unlock it. you don't need to install any jailbreak apps if you don't want to.

I did not understand that I had to jailbreak first before I could unlock. The flow chart at iClarified is a bit misleading - suggests that unlock and jail breaking are different processes that use different software. [/quote]

the only issue is that apple considers the warranty to be voided, so if it needs service for whatever reason, you will need to restore an official firmware which will un-jailbreak it.

Not concerned about the warranty being void (good excuse to get a 3GS!). Just want to be sure I have everything working. If I jailbreak and unlock, will my current SIM card still work? Or do I need to wait until I want to install the new SIM?

which iphone do you have and what firmware is it running? the unlocking has become trickier with each successive model.

3G, version 3.0.1

Use redsn0w or Pwnage Tool 3.0?

I did not understand that I had to jailbreak first before I could unlock. The flow chart at iClarified is a bit misleading - suggests that unlock and jail breaking are different processes that use different software.

jailbreaking allows for patching the firmware so that it can be unlocked (and unofficial apps). it's not like other phones where you just punch in a code.

Not concerned about the warranty being void (good excuse to get a 3GS!). Just want to be sure I have everything working. If I jailbreak and unlock, will my current SIM card still work? Or do I need to wait until I want to install the new SIM?

your current sim will continue to work. you just get the ability to use other sims too.

3G, version 3.0.1
that should be fine. jailbreaking 3.01 is slightly trickier because you need 3.0 as well (at least until they update the tool).

also, don't upgrade to 3.1 (yet) or you risk losing the ability to unlock. a future tool will support upgrading to 3.1 and maintain the ability to unlock but it has not yet been released.

Use redsn0w or Pwnage Tool 3.0?

redsn0w is basically plug and go, it's very easy. pwnage is the power user tool for generating a custom jailbroken firmware package which is then flashed normally from itunes. after jailbreaking it, you'll need to install ultrasn0w.

jailbreaking allows for patching the firmware so that it can be unlocked (and unofficial apps). it's not like other phones where you just punch in a code.

Ok, now I understand.

your current sim will continue to work. you just get the ability to use other sims too.

That's very helpful.


that should be fine. jailbreaking 3.01 is slightly trickier because you need 3.0 as well (at least until they update the tool).

"need 3.0 as well"? Could you clarify?

also, don't upgrade to 3.1 (yet) or you risk losing the ability to unlock. a future tool will support upgrading to 3.1 and maintain the ability to unlock but it has not yet been released.

Had read that elsewhere but thanks for the reminder.


redsn0w is basically plug and go, it's very easy. pwnage is the power user tool for generating a custom jailbroken firmware package which is then flashed normally from itunes. after jailbreaking it, you'll need to install ultrasn0w.

That's what I thought, but thanks for the confirmation.

"need 3.0 as well"? Could you clarify?

the jailbreak tools need an official firmware copy to patch and they aren't yet aware of 3.0.1, so they'll reject it as invalid. fortunately, the difference between 3.0 and 3.0.1 is minor so pointing the tools at 3.0 while the iphone has 3.0.1 works. it's easier than it sounds.

http://blog.iphone-dev.org/post/153409604/recycling-goodness

i would assume that the 3.1 aware tool will not need this workaround, but it's not out yet.