Amtrak Guest Rewards - Fare questions

How does Amtrak decide how much to charge between two destinations? Trips in the NEC cost more than trips with similar distance and length elsewhere.

On state-subsidized trains, is the subsidy per passenger, per mile traveled, or what?

Much of the price is determined by bucket pricing... simple supply and demand.

As for the second part, that's better suited to be answered by someone who has more knowledge.

On state-subsidized trains, is the subsidy per passenger, per mile traveled, or what?

At the end of each year Amtrak looks at what it cost them to operate a state sponsored train, subtracts the revenue collected for that train and basically sends the state a bill for the difference. That's a bit of an over simplification of course.

Some states want to know up front what it will cost, so each year Amtrak performs that calculation to decide what the state will owe the next year. Other states may actually make estimated payments each month, and then settle the difference at year's end, much like you do with your income tax.

A few states like California actually own the equipment, so all they do is pay Amtrak a set fee to run the trains and sell tickets.

But again when Amtrak owns the equipment, the basic idea is costs - revenue.

As for prices, in addition that which was mentioned by Rock_Kid, Amtrak charges what the market will bear. So on the NEC, fares are much higher than other places. Also in the case of State sponsored trains, the states set the prices in most cases, not Amtrak.

The Northeast Corridor is the ONLY profitable rail line

And so the fares along this route help defray the great

losses on ALL the other lines

There are currently discounted fares of 25% with

advance purchase on most of these runs

We have lost two thirds of the usable passenger

track in this country over the past 40 years

CHIC SILBER, how do you


know that ALL the other


lines are losing money?


Does that include lines that


are subsidized, or do you


have a source for your


claim?

Thanks for the responses. To follow up on my questions from yesterday:

Acela Express starts at $93 for BOS-NYP and $133 for NYP-WAS, but $149 for BOS-WAS, so the whole is much cheaper than the sum of its parts. Would a BOS-WAS ticket allow a free stopover (say a few hours) at NYP, or do I have to buy two separate tickets?

How about a train like the Carolinian? Does Amtrak calculate its cost and revenue for the North Carolina portion (since NC is the only state that subsidizes that train)?

Thanks for the responses. To follow up on my questions from yesterday:

Acela Express starts at $93 for BOS-NYP and $133 for NYP-WAS, but $149 for BOS-WAS, so the whole is much cheaper than the sum of its parts. Would a BOS-WAS ticket allow a free stopover (say a few hours) at NYP, or do I have to buy two separate tickets?

I have booked tickets from BOS-NYP-WAS on amtrak.com (using the multi-city reservations form) and they were never as expensive as buying 2 separate tickets (BOS-NYP, NYP-WAS). I just did a few test bookings on amtrak.com and it is still the case.

I have a feeling that it depends what your particular trains you decide to ride on and how full they are (e.g., which bucket they are on).

Thanks for the responses. To follow up on my questions from yesterday:

Acela Express starts at $93 for BOS-NYP and $133 for NYP-WAS, but $149 for BOS-WAS, so the whole is much cheaper than the sum of its parts. Would a BOS-WAS ticket allow a free stopover (say a few hours) at NYP, or do I have to buy two separate tickets?

How about a train like the Carolinian? Does Amtrak calculate its cost and revenue for the North Carolina portion (since NC is the only state that subsidizes that train)?

You have to buy two separate tickets for a stopover.As stated above ,the Multi-City function is the least expensive way too buy those two tickets.

The Northeast Corridor is the ONLY profitable rail line


The NEC is not profitable. The NEC does cover its operating costs, but factor in the capital costs and the NEC looses money. There are many who disagree with Amtrak's idea of considering the upkeep for the corridor to be a capital expense and believe that it should be considered an operating expense to show the true picture.

Additionally there are those that believe that Amtrak pushes off some of the station costs and reservation center costs for the NEC onto the long distance trains in an effort to further make the NEC look good. Personally I'm not sure what to believe, but it is interesting that after years of this claim being leveled time and time again, Amtrak has never released proof that the claim is false. So draw your own conclusions from that.

By the way, there is actually one long distance train that also like the NEC, covers its operating costs. That is the Auto Train. Last fiscal year the AT made $10 million more than its operating costs. Once overhead and capital were subtracted, it too like the NEC lost money.

And then of course there are the state sponsored routes. With some there is no net gain or loss for Amtrak, it's a break even deal that covers operations, overhead, and capital costs. With others the contract is actually written such that Amtrak makes a small profit of the run.

How about a train like the Carolinian? Does Amtrak calculate its cost and revenue for the North Carolina portion (since NC is the only state that subsidizes that train)?

That's one that I honestly don't know the answer for. My guess is that its like the Vermonter, where Vermont only pays for the expenses from Springfield, Mass to St. Albans.

But again, I don't really know for sure.

Additionally there are those that believe that Amtrak pushes off some of the station costs and reservation center costs for the NEC onto the long distance trains in an effort to further make the NEC look good. Personally I'm not sure what to believe, but it is interesting that after years of this claim being leveled time and time again, Amtrak has never released proof that the claim is false. So draw your own conclusions from that.

Many, many years ago I was reading about allocation of NEC expenses across the system. IIRC, one example involved the Coast Starlight being charged for maintenance of two AEM-7 electric locomotives. The article proceeded to remind readers the Coast Starlight does not operate on electrified lines.

You have to buy two separate tickets for a stopover.As stated above ,the Multi-City function is the least expensive way too buy those two tickets.

I have had stopovers allowed on several regional trips

by calling after the original reservation was done online

without any additional fare

CHIC SILBER, how do you

know that ALL the other

lines are losing money?

Does that include lines that

are subsidized, or do you

have a source for your

claim?

Articles in MANY major news media

Articles in MANY major news mediaThanks! I'm gonna go

with the info

posted above by

some other contributors

to this forum. Who,

thankfully, don't insist

on constantly writing in

prose. :)

Thanks! I'm gonna go

with the info

posted above by

some other contributors

to this forum. Who,

thankfully, don't insist

on constantly writing in

prose. :)


So why bother answering NERD

Fitting title

Articles in MANY major news media

There's a great source. :td:

Most newspapers still believe that conductor's drive trains too! Only a select few have ever figured out that engineers drive the trains.

Only a select few have ever figured out that engineers drive the trains.

I used to LIVE on a train and have driven switchers also

If you care to please send a private message and I'll explain

Thanks for the responses. To follow up on my questions from yesterday:

Acela Express starts at $93 for BOS-NYP and $133 for NYP-WAS, but $149 for BOS-WAS, so the whole is much cheaper than the sum of its parts. Would a BOS-WAS ticket allow a free stopover (say a few hours) at NYP, or do I have to buy two separate tickets?

Amtrak's rule is that any stop less than 24 hours counts as a stopover, and so (assuming the same fare bucket is available) any ticket booked with a legal stopover will get the end-to-end pricing.

This is possible on routes (like the NEC) that have multiple trains per day. It's NOT possible on routes served by once-a-day long-distance trains, as by the simple rules of the space-time continuum (relativity and quantum mechanics aside), a train serving a city once per day at the same time every day cannot have a stop interval of less than 24 hours. ;)

In order to secure the end-to-end pricing, one must use the multi-city booking function on the Amtrak website (or call or visit a human agent, obviously).

I used to LIVE on a train and have driven switchers also

If you care to please send a private message and I'll explain

I think Alan was referring

to journalists who don't get

railroader job descriptions.

He said reporters often report

that conductors drive the trains!

He didn't say anything about

your expertise and knowledge base.

And as a journalism student,

I'll gladly second his point--

reporters sadly can't be experts

on every subject they cover.


You know, my writing classes at my school

were of the journalistic kind of thing.

But I could rather find myself intrigued

with writing poetry--except that--oh!

my carriage return key now is wearing out.

a train serving a city once per day at the same time every day cannot have a stop interval of less than 24 hours. ;)




In theory, yes, though I was at a station in the upper midwest last year that was expecting two eastbound Empire Builders to pass through within the course of about 8 hours. :D:eek: