California - OT: Any recommendations for SF, Napa and Sonoma?

Hi all - I couldn't think of a better place to ask for some hotel and dining recommendations for San Francisco and the Napa / Sonoma Valleys.

I'm taking an old friend to SFO and back in F in October as a treat - he's been going through an awful patch recently and since we are both wine snobs :D I thought a driving tour up there would be good for him.

I've asked the Amex Cent US concierge to try and get us a table at the French Laundry in Yountville and they promise to hit the phones 2 months ahead of our five days on the ground, but as for other dining, I'd be open to suggestions...

The only nice place I've stayed at in SF is the Fairmont, although I found it a bit staid and trad, and there was no gym or pool.

MANY THANKS!
HL

Rather than staying at the Fairmont Hotel in SF, consider an apartment:

http://www.fairmont.com/ghirardelli

I've stayed at the IC in Howard St (two connecting rooms) and that was excellent, loved the bar as well and it has a lap pool and a gym.

Thanks JonWB ^

In April I stayed at the Mark Hopkins IC and really enjoyed my stay there. But it is a bit of a hike up there, but you can always take the cable car up there :)

I also did this wine tour


http://www.viator.com/tours/San-Francisco/Napa-Valley-Wine-Country-Day-Trip-from-San-Francisco/d651-2214WINE

which I really enjoyed.

Also enjoyed this

http://www.viator.com/tours/San-Francisco/Yosemite-National-Park-Day-Trip-from-San-Francisco/d651-2660SFOYOS

I can recommend the St Regis, it’s certainly not traditional and has a wonderful pool, which is normally deserted. I know that there are mixed reviews about this hotel on the SPG forum however, I have stayed there 4 times and have yet to be disappointed.

They are also pretty good with upgrades in my experience (if you have elite status with SPG) – I have yet to stay in a standard room there. In any case, rates seem to be good value at the moment.

Postflight.

As is customary, we'll give this a run here before moving to the California forum

Swanhunter
Mod, BAEC

Hello

We are off to SF, Napa & Sonoma in 2 weeks time - first time on BACW , we went last year and loved it so much are going back.

For SF I can recommend Mandarin Oriental but we are trying IC Howard street this time because their rates are so good.

One restaurant I can recommend is Cyrus - in Healdsburg - It is often compared to the French Laundry but is a bit cheaper and slightly easier to get in. We did book 8 weeks before hand though so we could get a good table time as when we booked 6 weeks before last time all the good times were gone . the wine matching is fantastic as well - saki with pork - who would have thought - but it went really well .
If you are planning on staying in the wine country I can recommend Healdsburg as a great base - close to the Russian River AVA and there are approx 15 tasting rooms in the town square and quite a few other good restaurants .

Have fun :)

Good thread in the luxury travel forum about SFO today, seems to be all about the FS at the moment. I've only tried the Ritz Carlton & would advise to stay away.

Why not stay in wine country?

Mrs. SFU? NFW! and I stayed at the Carneros Inn last summer. It was truly super with a fantastic concierge who got us into all - and indeed behind the scenes at some - of our choice wineries. In particular, we enjoyed Newton, Pride, Vincent Arroyo and Opus One.

Their restaurant, Farm, was good - and don't forget Taylor's Automatic Refresher in St. Helena for a very different yet hugely tasty counterpoint to the French Laundry! :p

We'll be in Mendoza this October, back in Sonoma in Jan so please report back as to how you get on.

Finally, another vote here for either IC in SF.

Hotels:
More of a business hotel, but well-located is the Omni. The Intercontinental has been getting good reviews, too.

Restaurants (a very small number of the many excellent restaurants in SF; and these are restaurants frequented by locals, not so often by tourists):
Delfina
Spruce
Range
Chez Panisse (in Berkeley, but this restaurant is the birthplace of "California Cuisine")
Acquerello

French Laundry is a must if you can afford it and get in.

Re wine tours, if it is just you and your friend and you can afford it (will run around $500-600/ day), get a sedan (NOT a limo) to see the wineries so you can freely sample. DUI and other traffic laws are (thankfully) very strictly enforced in wine country. Limos are not received well by most wineries, and are in fact not allowed at many of the smaller (and better) places. Many of the very best wineries require reservations, and you should make these 1-2 weeks in advance. If you haven't been to the larger wineries, it is fun to take a tour or two, but you'll really have the best experiences at the places that only take reservations. Sonoma is probably more popular with locals for wineries because most tourists want to go to Napa. The truth is, many of Northern California's best wines do not come from Napa anymore.

Have fun, and really try to visit some of the places that are "off the beaten path" -- I'm sure there are many books that will point out these places. I feel that too often tourists come to our beautiful city and region, and go to the same old places, really missing the things that make this place so special.
If you like beer, check out the Russian River Brewery; if you like wine, you must like cheese so visit one of our great local cheese makers (http://www.cacheeseguild.org/findacheesemaker.html); if you like oysters go to Hog Island Oysters up by Point Reyes.

I could go on and on and on, but -- as with most places, but ESPECIALLY here -- if you go local, you'll really have the best experiences.

EDIT: I want to add -- because this is something that a lot of people don't realize about the Bay Area -- some of the most indulgent, special experiences are going to be had at places that some in the "luxury" travel forum may turn their noses up at. Some of the places I mentioned regarding beer, cheese and wine fall into this category. Also places like Swan Oyster Depot in SF. SF is not NYC, and often the best food and wine is found in some of the most eclectic of establishments.

Thanks all ^

The Carneros Inn looks great, but it is pricey at 640 USD per night for their entry-level room. I was planning to splash out in SF and then find more reasonable hotels or guest houses in Napa and Sonoma, so if anyone knows of small, friendly places there then please let me know!

Thanks for the tip about reserving at the smaller wineries. I'll start doing some research now as I'm familiar with the big names and I can't stand organised tours!

Hello

Welcome to FT, SaintKaz ^

Rather than staying at the Fairmont Hotel in SF, consider an apartment:

http://www.fairmont.com/ghirardelli

I've stayed at the IC in Howard St (two connecting rooms) and that was excellent, loved the bar as well and it has a lap pool and a gym.

Stayed here in June and it was OK... A few niggles here and there, the F&F rate made it a bit of a steal as there were 6 of us, but other than the top class staff, it didn't excel.

Oh, there's no pool either.

The Carneros Inn looks great, but it is pricey at 640 USD per night for their entry-level room. I was planning to splash out in SF and then find more reasonable hotels or guest houses in Napa and Sonoma, so if anyone knows of small, friendly places there then please let me know!!

You may want to think about reversing that, since SFO has some really good hotels you do not need to really splash out for. The city is the main attraction anyways and you should use the hotel for sleeping only! :)

The countryside may be worth a splash since some of the hotels there are destinations in their own right.

I have a friend who lives in Palo Alto. I will give her a call later today to see if she has some recommendation.

By the way: you are a good friend! ^

EDIT: I want to add -- because this is something that a lot of people don't realize about the Bay Area -- some of the most indulgent, special experiences are going to be had at places that some in the "luxury" travel forum may turn their noses up at. Some of the places I mentioned regarding beer, cheese and wine fall into this category. Also places like Swan Oyster Depot in SF. SF is not NYC, and often the best food and wine is found in some of the most eclectic of establishments.

Thank you so much AGSF... I'm also much happier off the beaten track although if I can get a table at the FL I will go for it! Cyrus looks great too... hadn't heard of it before, but now I look, it is in Michelin.

And thanks too henkybaby...

Second Thumbs up for Cyrus in Healdsburg - Best meal I have ever had! Le Bouchon in Napa, Yountville is fantastic for lunch.

Gary Farrell in the Sonoma area has some fantastic wines. Chandon in Napa is actually not bad.

There are too many places to mention in SF - Fleur de Lys, Gary Danko, Aqua, etc Check out www.yelp.com for more info on food and peoples reviews. I love Nihon - sushi and whisky place in the Misson

I love the Mark Hopkins - comfiest beds in SF, but all the other places mentioned are great as well. The Palace has a beautiful breakfast room, but it's a bit tired.

Have a great trip.

For Sonoma dining I would recommend The Girl and the Fig. Yummy food and great atmosphere. There is also a sister restaurant in Glen Ellen -- the Girl and the Gaucho -- which is really good, too!

Enjoy your trip! :)

I've only heard good things about Cyrus, though I haven't been there. I HAVE been to FL several times, and do recommend it. I would also strongly recommend Redd, which, like FL, is in Yountville.
If you can plan your trip so that you're in Napa/Sonoma (though the latter is generally less crowded) on weekdays rather than a weekend, it would be better (less traffic and you can probably get a better deal on accommodations). I've always loved Auberge du Soleil, but I do think it's overpriced. Of the newer inns, Carneros and Milliken Creek are both highly regarded. If the prices there aren't right, you might look at La Residence, which has very accommodating owners and is very comfortable.
There are so many great wineries up there, it's hard to come up with a shortlist. If there are any wines from there that you've particularly enjoyed, that's a good starting point. Many of the better smaller wineries are open by appointment only. You might want to discuss this with the concierge(s) wherever you decide to stay (either in town or up there).

In San Francisco, I did enjoy the new IC, though I didn't love its environs. The FS is fine and is attached to a great gym. I used to love the R-C, but I gather the manager left and it's on a downward slide.
There are so many good restaurants in San Francisco, it's also hard to choose. I'll join in the recommendation for Gary Danko and add Quince and Michael Mina. You can enjoy Hog Island Oyster Co in its Ferry Building branch (you should check out the market on Saturday if you're there then in any case).

Welcome to FT, SaintKaz ^

Thanks wiluk , long time lurker :)

Also if anyone is looking for a great book on Napa Valley - I can highly recommend A Moveable Thirst by Rick Kushman & Hank Beal - Tales & Tastes from a season in Napa Valley with reviews of 141 Napa Tasting Rooms .
It covers loads of wineries not covered by the normal guides books and gives lots of information that they dont normally give. Shames theres not one for Sonoma Valley , it has really helped with deciding which wineries to visit this time as there are so many to choose from and just not enough time.

Would heartily recommend In-N-Out Burger near Fishermans Wharf :D

Try the Hyde Street Seafood and Raw bar, is a hidden away a local's place, really great food, fantastic service and pleasant atmosphere. Scomas is good as well, as is the fog city diner for drinks and / or a meal. The Bloody Mary's are awesome! For Breakfast pop iinto Peter D's off Van Ness + Broadway. sit at the counter for an old fashioned experience!

If you are looking for entertainment then it has to be BBB Beach Blanket Babylon, small theatre with topical (excuse language) P take!!! of current affairs. Make sure you book early!

Not far from the theatre is the Stinking Rose, go try the Garlic ice Cream it's weird, but funnily you still keep going back for another spoonfull. Just a 100yrds down the road (the green building) is Frances Ford Copella's bar/ restaurant, another great place to spend a while.

A real basic great tasting burger meal with fries go to Fort Mason Deli, 1 block from Gough and Lombard, do not be put off by the take away appearance the food tasted real good and the sandwiches were stuffed FULL!!!

I lived and worked in SF / Napa for five years so here's a few thoughts from me.

For hotels, I'm a fan of the St Regis and always have a good stay there though I'm not wild about the pool and gym. The MOMA Cafe next door does a decent lunch too. The FS is OK too though right on Market Street. YOu coud also try the Vitale

If you want to splash out in the valley, Calistoga Ranch ($$$$) and Auberge du Soleil are nice and Auberge has a good terrace for lunch.

For food, up-valley, Bouchon, Cyrus and FL are all good and there are plenty of other good choices as well though it can get a little precious sometimes. In Napa City, Ubuntu is excellent and I've always liked Angele. Great pizzas from Azurro also.

In SF, I'd eat at Spruce, Range, Myth, Salt House, Absinthe, Zuni Cafe and 2223 on Market St (my personal fave as it happens). Chez Panisse in Berkely is also great of course.


Lastly wineries; I like Provenance, Etude, Duckhorn and Chateau St Jean as well as Nickel and Nickel.

October is a great time to be there incidentally.

have a great trip

Fritz

Firstly I hope you both have a great trip.

In SFO I like the Hotel Vitale down by the Ferry Terminal. More modern, if you like the style a very good hotel but it is a way away from many things.

In Napa I love the Milliken Creek, it's very luxurious, smallish and well assembled.

The French Laundry - is very good, I hope you enjoy but I thought I'd had better and so many of the customers seem to be on a celebration more than appreciating the food ... I did love Cyrus!

Stayed in both IC's (Howard Street, and the Mark Hopkins) on my recent stay to SFO. Both are great but very much different. Howard Street IC is brand new, very modern. Mark Hopkins is 100 years old, very traditional looking as are the rooms, but the Top of the Mark bar is excellent.

If you fancy steak, try Harris' restaurant on Van Ness. It is wonderful, one of the best steaks I have ever tasted. Very pricey, but very much worth it!

Jealous you are going back to SFO, would go back at the drop of a hat!!

Had a wonderful, but low-key, experience at The Cottage Inn in Sonoma. http://www.cottageinnandspa.com/

Heartily recommended.

I was in Sonoma last April with my girlfriend. We loved it!

Anyway, we tried many wineries (Gary Farrell was excellent for the views and the wine as someone above mentioned). But my absolute favourite wine tasting was McLeod's Family Vineyard. It's a very small family operation but the lady who took care of us there was wonderful. A true gem. She took us around the farm on the back of a small pick up (with her sheep dog in tow!) and we had a small wine, cheese and chocolate picnic at the top of a hill.

Best of all, it was free! (although we did buy a bottle of wine as a thankyou).

Absolutely wonderful and it if you get the chance, I highly recommend it.

Vineyard Tour at MacLeod Family Vineyard, 740 Lawndale Road, Kenwood. 707/833-4312.

Thanks all ^

I was planning to splash out in SF and then find more reasonable hotels or guest houses in Napa and Sonoma, so if anyone knows of small, friendly places there then please let me know!

Thanks for the tip about reserving at the smaller wineries. I'll start doing some research now as I'm familiar with the big names and I can't stand organised tours!

I would reccommend the Blackbird Inn in Napa which is less than 10 minutes walking distance into the town where there are several good Italian restuarants. An old-style inn with canapes/drinks in the evening. I was told earlier this year that due to licensing laws most Wineries do not do evening food - a great pity since most offer such fantastic views and settings.

I would reccommend booking a tour of Castello di Amoroso in Napa just to see the workmanship that's gone into it. We also love V Sattui :)

If you wanted to take a gamble you could probably get a very good deal on an SF Hotel using priceline.com. We got a room in the Grand Hyatt overlooking Union Square earlier on in the year.

Most places in SF were covered, but I want to recommend my favorite Italian restaurant there.

http://www.allegroromano.com/