American Express Membership Rewards - UK card acceptance - what exactly are the rules?

I understand from Amex customer service that if a place is displaying signage or similar, then under the terms of their contract with AX, then they are obliged to accept the card.

1. A nearby bar/restaurant which clearly dsiplays on their menu that they accept AX, VI, MC, cash... my wife was able to use it once but when I tried to the following weekend, was told that they did not accept it, had never accepted it, that if my wife had used it, it was a fluke. I was quite agitated. The manager said she had been told by her manager not to accept the card and would raise it with her the following morning. The next time I went there, I was refused service at all.

2. A train company accept the card on board the train, and has signage to show that this is the case. But often, all too often, the electronic swipe machine breaks down. The staff don't seem to grasp that the claims "yes, we accept the card" and "no, we can't accept it today" are irreconcilable. Should they take down or cover the blue box?

What can Amex do about this? If their only recourse is to withdraw their card acceptance agreement with the merchant, who wins? On the other hand, maybe it's more exciting if a major chain of restaurants finds they can't accept the card because of one manager who wants to pay a 2% fee rather than 4% fee on the occasional AX card she sees, losing about £2000 of business per annum completely as a result.

So, what are the rules on merchants accepting cards when they say they do? Far too many other places display the blue box but won't accept the card when it comes to it. One day I will walk out of an establishment without paying at all...

...the electronic swipe machine breaks down. The staff don't seem to grasp that the claims "yes, we accept the card" and "no, we can't accept it today" are irreconcilable.l...

There is no contradiction. They accept the card, except when the transaction terminal is broken.

There is a form on the American Express website to report problems using the card, including mercahnts who decline to accept it or technical problems. Not sure if this link will work because I needed to logon to my USA-issued account to find it. There may be a UK-specific version on americanexpress.co.uk

https://www152.americanexpress.com/EformsWeb/un/ViewSuppressionPage.do?loc_str=en_US&utype=internet&origin=6

I can't comment on the restaurant, other than stating the obvious that they don't want your money in a recession, which makes no sense.

In respect of the train company you could suggest...
1. the staff member types the Amex card number into the machine, or
2. uses a manual transaction voucher (which they should be carrying).
3. that the member of staff calls their support number and they may be able to authorise the payment over the phone.
4. if you're making a food or drink purchase and all of the above fails, the train manager can put the value of the transaction through on the ticket machine, so you pay the train manager with your Amex card and he or she gives the catering staff a receipt to say he's taken money on their behalf.

A UK link for suggesting merchants to Amex...

"If you have a favourite restaurant, retailer or other merchant and they do not accept the American Express® Card, why not let us know? You can submit these details below."

https://amex.estoriltech.com/internet

A UK link for suggesting merchants to Amex...

"If you have a favourite restaurant, retailer or other merchant and they do not accept the American Express® Card, why not let us know? You can submit these details below."

https://amex.estoriltech.com/internet

I know that link well. I'm asking about places that have obviously signed the paperwork to take the card but don't in fact take it when a cardmember turns up.

I can't comment on the restaurant, other than stating the obvious that they don't want your money in a recession, which makes no sense.

In respect of the train company you could suggest...
1. the staff member types the Amex card number into the machine, or
2. uses a manual transaction voucher (which they should be carrying).
3. that the member of staff calls their support number and they may be able to authorise the payment over the phone.
4. if you're making a food or drink purchase and all of the above fails, the train manager can put the value of the transaction through on the ticket machine, so you pay the train manager with your Amex card and he or she gives the catering staff a receipt to say he's taken money on their behalf.

They don't carry manual vouchers or zip-zap machines. "They're a thing of the past." There are lots of people around who have never even heard of them. "Things break down. Cars break down. Trains break down. These machines break down." And I think catering and tickets are completely different divisions.

I had the same experience in Starbucks (in the UK), so I wrote to them and they sent me three free coffee vouchers, but didn't tell me why the store wouldn't take Amex. I continue to use my card successfully on their website and in other Starbucks stores in the same city.

I can`t tell you enough how much this whole thing angers me...

So many time`s have I gone to private merchants and tried to use my Amex card when they visibly display they accept it.

First they tell me they don`t accept it. But they take Visa and MC...
Then I mentioned they have it in the window, and since the company I own accepts Amex (and happy to for that matter), I asked them if they actually accept it but prefer not to accept it...

They tell me they signed up, but stopped accepting it because of the discount rate on transactions.... I simply put the merchandise back on the shelf and walk out to never come back again...

I won`t use MC, or Visa unless I absolutely have to. Ever since I turned 18, It pissed me off that I kept on having to get these secured Visa`s and MC`s... By the time I hit 19, I heard of Amex... Signed up and got the Platinum Charge card right away... And I`ve never turned back.

I find car parks to be a nuisance - all the ticket machines display the AmEx logo, but never accept the card in the machine (Charge and/or Credit). I've contacted AmEx about it several times, but to no avail. I'm always told there must be a problem with the machine... They only seem to accept Visa/MC/Maestro. I agree with the sentiments of other users that I prefer to use AmEx, but I'd never solely rely on it...indeed, I feel much safer carrying a Visa/MC. I've been questioning my need for AmEx lately...it's getting too unreliable :td:

My business no longer accepts American Express due to the fact that they sent us a letter that states we have no longer have rights to fight a chargeback.

Let's leave aside for a moment the fact that a great many Virgin trains can't manage to accept cards at all or print receipts.

This morning, as I handed over my Platinum Amex to pay for a light breakfast, the lady told me that they only accept certain American Express cards. So I asked which ones they don't accept, and was told "Business and Corporate". Remarkable. I wonder why not.

I was also told on a previous trip that the same card is only accepted once on the same journey. Apparently this is some sort of fraud prevention, though I'm not clear why, say, a second transaction for £5 will be declined while a first transaction for £40 will be fine.

Let's leave aside for a moment the fact that a great many Virgin trains can't manage to accept cards at all or print receipts.

This morning, as I handed over my Platinum Amex to pay for a light breakfast, the lady told me that they only accept certain American Express cards. So I asked which ones they don't accept, and was told "Business and Corporate". Remarkable. I wonder why not.

I was also told on a previous trip that the same card is only accepted once on the same journey. Apparently this is some sort of fraud prevention, though I'm not clear why, say, a second transaction for £5 will be declined while a first transaction for £40 will be fine.

None of this is fraud prevention. Neither is it that certain Amex cards are accepted and certain are not. Platinum in the UK is neither a Business card - nor a Corporate card.

It is all down to cost cutting. Presumably you ended up paying either with Cash/Visa/MC. Amex costs more commission (2-3 times more). It is something a lot of retail companies have started in a bid to reduce their commission. I know of quite a few businesses which although accept Amex, have instructed front end staff to try their utmost for people not to use Amex/Diners. I bet if you insisted that this was the only way you were going to pay or else you would not buy, they would have said something like - let me try - maybe it goes through - and sure enough it will end up going through. There are certain other retailers, e.g. restaurants, hotels where you would have already used the goods who will do a similar thing - but since you have already consumed the goods, you will have no choice but to pay alternatively....

Amex costs more commission (2-3 times more).

I doubt that the difference even approaches that magnitude. Do you have a source to support it?

I doubt that the difference even approaches that magnitude. Do you have a source to support it?

Yes. The commissions difference I pay in my business. All others in my line of business pay similar differences. Roughly speaking 1-1.5% for Visa/MC, between 2.75-3% for Amex & Diners

Oh joy of joys, the debacle of AmEx acceptance. On the whole, I find that the vast majority of places I frequent use AmEx, and I will sometimes look for another vendor if they don't take AmEx (esp for large purchases).

But I've noticed the issue of 'suppression' quite a bit more in the past year - where merchants are:

a) charging a fee just because I am using an AmEx - if they are charging a fee for all credit/charge cards fair enough, but not if its just for AmEx card. A large racetrack I used in June wanted 4% uplift because I wanted to pay AmEx. AmEx didn't take too kindly to this and spoke to the merchant - I was charged the 4% (about ~£150 fee) and refunded the fee back after some time. I was a bit dismayed that I had to continually chase AmEx though for the refund, I don't want to hear about paperwork and process as a Centurion customer.

b) Merchants that take the card, but only for up to £x amount. Especially car dealers here.... you take it or you don't in my book. Do you want the sale or not....

c) Places displaying the logo, but then not taking the card. As EGW highlighted, car parking in particular. Reverse also seems to be true - I was in Boots yesterday buying something and the woman behind the counter insisted they didn't take AmEx. I had to ask several times to let her at least try the card. I know Boots do take it as I bought from another branch 24 hours earlier.

I've given up a long time ago suggesting shops that don't take AmEx, as I've never seen any of them come online. What I have seen is some large retailers stop accepting, B&Q springs to mind.

One of my pet hates though is merchants that advertise that they take all major credit cards, you then ask if they take AmEx and they say no. What constitutes a major credit card then? It's not as if there are only 10k AmEx's in circulation. The compound of this is when they take JCB but not AmEx.....

Presumably you ended up paying either with Cash/Visa/MC.

No, actually a personal Pt card is an acceptable means, so I used it. I have no problem with a place saying "we don't take Amex". My issue is places that claim that they do, right up to the point when you try to use it. And rather than accept it even though they say they do, on establishment took the simple approach of banning me from their premises, lying further as they did so.

No, actually a personal Pt card is an acceptable means, so I used it. I have no problem with a place saying "we don't take Amex". My issue is places that claim that they do, right up to the point when you try to use it. And rather than accept it even though they say they do, on establishment took the simple approach of banning me from their premises, lying further as they did so.

That's a strange one - AFAIK you either accept Amex (and if so, all Amex cards, or you don't). And commission for all Amex cards is also the same!

N.B. Of course 1 reason could be - as per my theory, they used the excuse of not accepting Business Amex cards as an excuse saying they only accept personal ones - and when you presented with a personal card - they had no choice! - who knows what the real reason was....

... 1-1.5% for Visa/MC, between 2.75-3% for Amex & Diners

Thank you. The VISA/Mastercard rates are lower than I expected. Are there additional "per transaction" or "per month" fees associated with accepting those cards?

Thank you. The VISA/Mastercard rates are lower than I expected. Are there additional "per transaction" or "per month" fees assocaited with accepting those cards?

No. Just Volume Driven. In fact, for Visa and MC, acquisition cost goes down even further if you take into account Dynamic Currency Conversion cashbacks (sub 1% levels!).

Per transaction fees only apply for debit cards. Visa and MC corporate and business cards do attract an approximate 0.5% surcharge - but as a percentage, at least in my business line, these tend to be much used much lower than what you would tend to anticipate.....

Thank you. The VISA/Mastercard rates are lower than I expected. Are there additional "per transaction" or "per month" fees assocaited with accepting those cards?

Wholly depends on volume. The numbers mentioned are surely at the very bottom of the scale.

I know some smaller merchants who confided that they pay 3-4% on Visa/MC and up to 7% on Amex. Plus, there is a minimum transaction fee with Amex which is why some merchants have a sign "we accept cc above $5" or something similar.
It's usually Amex who have the prohibitive minimum transaction fee - which drives the merchant to institute a "minimum purchase for cc use" policy, since they can't discriminate and say "amex only for $5 or more". My local dry cleaner let me in on their "new negotiated deal with Amex" which lowered their minimum transaction fee to $0.25 (supposedly before it was more than double). Prior to that reduction, they would not accept Amex for a $1.75 shirt, as a large chunk would just be going to the transaction fee.

But if you ever find yourself in that situation, and want to pay by CC - try to offer Visa/MC and many times they will take it.

I know some smaller merchants who confided that they pay 3-4% on Visa/MC and up to 7% on Amex.

Again, ends up meaning roughly speaking 2-3 times extra commission for Amex...

I always pull out the BA Amex first in a bid to build up the miles but I have met with the all too common "Ahhh, I'm afraid we don't accept that here"

At times I put things back and told them I'd leave it and other times I went ahead with my back up Visa card (when I couldn't be bothered traipsing to another retailer).

Bottom line is that we all know about the patchy acceptance and a back up is a prudent way to manage purchases in Europe.

I didn't know about the link - thanks for the heads up. I'll be putting a few of the local businesses on there and keep the pressure on the phoneys that promise so much but deliver so little.

Let's leave aside for a moment the fact that a great many Virgin trains can't manage to accept cards at all or print receipts.

This morning, as I handed over my Platinum Amex to pay for a light breakfast, the lady told me that they only accept certain American Express cards. So I asked which ones they don't accept, and was told "Business and Corporate". Remarkable. I wonder why not.

I was also told on a previous trip that the same card is only accepted once on the same journey. Apparently this is some sort of fraud prevention, though I'm not clear why, say, a second transaction for £5 will be declined while a first transaction for £40 will be fine.

I think the staff are making it up as they go along. I do know that the station fastticket machines will not accept the same card more than once because a common form of card fraud is where a number of smallish transactions are made on the same day as a fraudster would assume that the cardholder would not notice.

Staff are told to accept any legal form of payment and apparently you can pay with postage stamps :).

We have a similar problem here in Canada, but its not just small stores which don't take AMEX, huge grocery and department store chains don't take it either. A good percentage of stores only take visa and mastercard. I am always amazed when I visit the US how widely accepted AMEX is.

Last week I pulled out my amex at a store and the owner laughed and said he didn't think anywhere still took that card.

I tried using it at my kids orthodontist (you can't imagine how many points you can accumulate with two kids worth of braces ), and the receptionist said only visa/mc so i asked if they'd be accepting amex in the future and said no, but did note that the dentist normally uses his amex for purchases.

I don't know the actual merchant discount difference between visa/mc and amex, but i suspect the perception that it is higher may actually outweigh the actual difference. A big thing to note though is that when you get a credit card machine normally it is pre-arranged with visa and master card and to take amex you have to apply separately so I'm sure many don't bother.

...when you get a credit card machine normally it is pre-arranged with visa and master card ...

My sense is that in the US American Express has attacked this problem, of late, through the licensing arrangements which allow Bank of America and Citi (plus a few others) to issue Amex networks cards. These banks now see American Express as their partner rather than strictly a competitor.

Are any large banks in Canada issuing Amex cards in addition to Mastercard or VISA?