National - Is National reducing their inventory?

I was flabbergasted by the lack of cars at Hobby on Tuesday.

I made a reservation from the web site a few weeks ago.
Hopped on their shuttle and arrived to the lot around 1PM on Tue.
Told the driver to drop me off at the Executive Selection Aisle.
He drops me next to an isolated Impala (there was nothing else around it for at least 100 yards in any direction.
I told him I wanted the Executive Aisle, he said the Impala was it. They had nothing else available.
I asked him where the Emerald Aisle was and he pointed to a solitary Mini Van.

As I needed to be somewhere fast, I took the Impala (which smelled like a chain smoker was driving it before). Just as I was leaving, they brought in a Camry as the replacement vehicle for the Aisle.

No complaints about the Impala or the staff as the car was reliable and the customer service there is fantastic. But, the lack of cars was a big suprise to me. Is National reducing their inventory of cars?

No complaints about the Impala or the staff as the car was reliable and the customer service there is fantastic. But, the lack of cars was a big suprise to me. Is National reducing their inventory of cars?

I noticed a shortage of cars at DEN last week, but it could be because it's peak season out there.

Bob H

I think this is related to http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/national/970780-soaring-cost-car-rentals.html - so lesson here is to book as soon as you know there's a possibility that you'll need a rental car.

booking in advance didn't help this exec elite in Louisville. booked a couple of weeks in advance. at the counter (no aisle there), I was first offered a downgrade to a cavalier at the same price (midsize reserved). when I balked, I was offered a well worn minivan.

Back at Hobby today.

There were no cars! Had to wait for an Chevy HHR:td:

Miami Airport yesterday morning had 1 car in the Exec. Aisle and one in the EA and no other cars except minivans and suvs.

IAD about a month and a half ago: totally empty aisles - both of them. Fortunately, there were a handful of cars sitting around in random places, including a Maxima with the keys and a hangtag in it. The exit guard had no issues with me taking it.

The Maxima was one of the better rental cars I've had in recent years, but still it was a bit odd to see such an empty lot.

We all generally agree on the other thread: they are reducing supply, perhaps for multiple reasons.

I think the subject has been discussed in some other threads, but yes supply has been reduced, due to a number of reasons. Keep in mind when GM & Chrysler filed for Chapter 11, ALL vehicles that were on order were either cancelled or delayed by the manufacturers. If they were already built, then delivery was taken. You have probably seen minivan rates, skyrocket in certain markets, simply because there arent any around. Also, our fleet plans are usually done 8-10 months ahead of time. Cars are ordered this far in advance. We do not pick up the phone and say we need x amount next week. This is all ordered months ahead. We all were expecting an economic downturn, and most rental compnaies cut back on their orders, and thus capacity. Companies like HERTZ and Dollar THRIFTY couldnt even get financing up until recently to get new vehicles. The other issue is twofold. One, GM & Chrysler cut back on their program or buyback cars, as well as the fleet deals they give to rental companies (I dont blame them). Availability due to the problems at GM & CHRY, cut supply way down and with the cost of cars up (due to lack of attractive fleet deals) and the fact that the used car market is in the tank (although we are starting to see some signs of life), rentals companies do not want to be on the hook for trying to dispose of tens of thousands of vehicles when the market isnt there for them. Which is why you are seeing less variety, cars kept longer, higher mileage etc.

Hope this gives some general insights but I'm happy to answer any questions you may have,

Another Data Point.

I arrived at TPA yesterday at 4 PM. The Executive Aisle was reduced is size by 30-40% and relabelled Emerald Aisle. It was irrelevant as there were no, zero, nada cars in the Executive Aisle. When I looked at the Emerald Aisle, now enlarged, there were at most, 10 cars total in the area. Most were small-I actually saw a beetle in it.

I have been trying to decide whether it is worth it to get back to Executive for the next year given my business has gone way down. What is the point if there are no cars in an Executive Aisle. In fact, why even have an Executive Aisle if you can't fill it?

PS. I just walked down and grabed a midsized SUV (RAV4-there were only 3 of them) and of course nobody said anything.

I'm hoping that this problem with inventory is temporary while the automotive market is in turmoil - although I'm sure that the rental companies will be more actively managing their inventory (with some sell-outs) with what I'm sure will be higher cost of obtaining cars.

I just booked a reservation for PHL for 9/2 (mid-week well in advance) and Luxury wasn't even available.

Thanks, rentalguy, for the insight. I've noticed that vans are just simply gone from certain locations. I assumed that's partly a function of Ford and GM exiting the passenger minivan business.

I've become very disgruntled with Hertz - not because of the cars but because they can't operate their #1 Club Gold system correctly anymore. There, if your name is not on the board, you're guaranteed to lose 10-15 minutes sorting it out.

I'm using National more often now - as long as there is something on the Exec Aisle (or nearby :)) and I can get on the road fast, I'm generally happy.

As a sidebar: Hertz just mailed me a "Welcome to #1 Club Gold" packet. Translation: "You're no longer 5-Star....how's that taste?" :D

Guess I should update my profile...

I booked a reservation for Luxury out of the PHL downtown location, they took it, and they told me they didn't have any and gave me a premium anyway, since I only 'booked' a premium. Frustrating, but I think the website automatically 'books' you at the level below when you are executive selection and reserves the higher level car. Off topic, so as an Executive Elite, how can you guarantee a luxury car, as there is no class directly above it (just specialty like SUV/minivan/etc)

Inventory weirdness:

- In the other thread, several of us have been observing/commenting on insanely high rates for rental cars recently. (Not really a National-specific discussion...) I personally have been observing ridiculous rates for this coming weekend at Midway - $50+ per day when traditional weekend rates for the location are closer to $20.

- I noticed last week a slight drop in rates. Then this week a full drop back to the usual $19.95 for a midsize. With a coupon for a free day, and with all taxes/fees, my rental is $94 for four days - just like any typical weekend rental usually is.

- Then, today I went online to see if rates had changed, and the entire location is completely sold out!

So now I'm pleased that I have my normal-rate weekend rental, but somewhat confused. Was the last-minute drop to $20 popular enough to sell out the entire station? If they were close to sold out at the previously-insane rates, why drop the rates to $20 this week?

I'm also sort of wondering what cars will be on the lot tomorrow at 10:30 AM when I arrive at Midway. I'm guessing it'll be a rather barren looking lot...

In my experience, it's not that they're reducing inventory as much as reducing variety. I can remember walking into my neighbourhood National office last year and being offered about 6 or 7 different choices, some of which were upgrades. Now with ERAC at the helm, there seems to be a strict "only get what you book" rule and you get a choice of colour rather than car. The Sonatas were fine when they were new, but now that the XM is expired in every one I get it's just another boring Korean car. When I was at YYZ National had the least variety of all the agencies. I'd gone to Avis and got a brand new Lincoln MKS, which was parked in a sea of brand new premium/luxury cars and SUVs. National had a bunch of Kias, Hyundais, and base model Chryslers. Nothing premium or higher. And yet their rates were sky-high as well. Other agencies seem to be able to keep high-end cars on fleet and charge less money for them, so I'm not sure what's going on...

I'm hoping that this problem with inventory is temporary while the automotive market is in turmoil - although I'm sure that the rental companies will be more actively managing their inventory (with some sell-outs) with what I'm sure will be higher cost of obtaining cars.



I have noticed that more and more of the EA/ES cars are begining to be Korean.

I have noticed that more and more of the EA/ES cars are begining to be Korean.

A few industry publications, like Automotive News, have remarked on the rise in fleet share by Hyundai & Kia. That's a pretty predictable outcome when GM & Chrysler have factories shut down for weeks at a time and make zero fleet deliveries in that period. (Nationwide fleet deliveries are made from the factory, not dealer inventory.)

I second the observation that the fleet is becoming much more homogenized. One finds fewer one-off treats.

A few industry publications, like Automotive News, have remarked on the rise in fleet share by Hyundai & Kia. That's a pretty predictable outcome when GM & Chrysler have factories shut down for weeks at a time and make zero fleet deliveries in that period. (Nationwide fleet deliveries are made from the factory, not dealer inventory.)

I second the observation that the fleet is becoming much more homogenized. One finds fewer one-off treats.

It's a short-circuited move imo. Yes, they're nice and cheap unfront and it's easy to complement your fleet with most car sizes for cheaper than Japanese cars considered the Americans are mostly out of the picture (save Ford). However, resale value on the Koreans is bad enough as it is, but now in a year markets everywhere will be flooded with fleet returns, dropping the value even further. Nearly everyone who leased one will turn it in rather than buyout, since they'd stand to lose money if they tried to re-sell it themselves, further dumping more cars on the market. With the resale value that low, National/Alamo will HAVE to take a hit, as the recovery point is too far down the road to wait to be even between the cars depreciation and current value. Imagine finding 3-4 year old Sonatas with 90,000 miles on them in Executive Aisle....

- Then, today I went online to see if rates had changed, and the entire location is completely sold out!
This weekend is Lollapolooza (sp?) - so I'm not surprised.

My last ES rental was at ORD, the base Altima had 27k on it. Eek...

I'm not a snob who wants all rentals to be under 6k miiles - I understand the economics of the situation. But 30,000 miles is my limit.

I'm not a snob who wants all rentals to be under 6k miiles

I am! lol
:)

Ron.

So am I.
Got one car last week with 300 miles (FLL) and one car with 7 miles (ORD). Not too shabby. My brother got a car with 650 miles (ORD).

We have every right to be snobs cause it's part of the program:

The Emerald Club AisleTM/Executive Selection lets you bypass the counter and choose any vehicle in the dedicated Emerald Aisle or Executive Selection. Because National is committed to bringing you the newest fleet in the industry, you can rest assured knowing that our lots will have the most up-to-date vehicles from which you can choose.

That and the how-to video says the Executive Selection lot features the "newest vehicles available at each location". I understand if National has to keep cars on longer due to the economy. But I like to see the effort put it to place the best they have on the lot whenever possible, rather than just randomly chucking some clunker onto the Executive lot and giving the shiny brand new model away to someone not even in Emerald Club who rents once a decade. If you show me the effort to honour my loyalty, I'll stay loyal. That doesn't mean Cadillacs for all, just something decent and relatively low mileage.

Is Hyundai-KIA selling the car just in bulk discount or are they doing program sales like the Big 3 used to do?

It could be the Koreans want to raise the visibility and awareness of their vehicles to the driving public who may not even be aware of, let alone consider, their cars.

FWIW, the Koreans have a significant cost advantage over the Japanese (lower KRW helps) so they've been able to load up their vehicles. Going back to the 1st paragraph (and the following one), they want to ramp up sales and volume so much that they are willing to push fleet sales. Their image isn't exactly stellar and held in awe (as is at least Honda and Toyota) so they don't have that much to lose (unless the axles fall off, which is what happened to the Hyundai Excels sold in the early/mid '80s).

Anyway, this Forbes article is worth a read:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/20/hyundai-kia-autos-business-auto-cars.html

Is Hyundai-KIA selling the car just in bulk discount or are they doing program sales like the Big 3 used to do?

It could be the Koreans want to raise the visibility and awareness of their vehicles to the driving public who may not even be aware of, let alone consider, their cars.

FWIW, the Koreans have a significant cost advantage over the Japanese (lower KRW helps) so they've been able to load up their vehicles. Going back to the 1st paragraph (and the following one), they want to ramp up sales and volume so much that they are willing to push fleet sales. Their image isn't exactly stellar and held in awe (as is at least Honda and Toyota) so they don't have that much to lose (unless the axles fall off, which is what happened to the Hyundai Excels sold in the early/mid '80s).

Anyway, this Forbes article is worth a read:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/20/hyundai-kia-autos-business-auto-cars.html

They're not bad cars for what they are. My girlfriend and I are considering leasing a base model Accent hatch just as a second car. We ran the numbers and it's about the same cost to lease one for two years as it would be to finance a used car and then trade it in at the same interval.

However, I drove an Accent with about 46,000 km on it from Enterprise last week. It's a spring chicken in the automotive world, yet the thing creaked and groaned like it was over ten years old. In contrast, my sister's 2005 Corolla S with 74,000 km on the clock is tight as new. And that's why the Koreans falter at the resale value game. The cars' initial quality may be up, they may be loaded to the gills with features (like my beloved Rondo), but they have yet to prove themselves in the long run.

Take a walk through a typical used car lot and you'll find alongside the mid 90s American and Japanese cars, are all sorts of Kias and Hyundais from 2002 or 2003. These are cars I remember looking at on the showroom floor, and they just look absolutely beat after no time at all, and carrying a $3,000 price tag for something that was $16,000 only 6 years earlier.

My fear is that National loaded up on Hyundais cause it was cheap on paper to fill up the fleet, and then they'll run into all the same problems down the road when trying to offsell them. That is, unless they are program cars as YVR Cockroach suggested. However, I'm pretty sure I've seen "Risk" on the keychain for most of these cars, and I recall JasYHZ saying that only Ford was giving program cars to National this year. On all my exploits across rental lots in Canada, National consistently has the most Koreans of all agency, and also a whole whack of PT Cruisers, even beating Thrifty. Come to think of it, Thrifty has mostly Toyotas on their lot, and they manage to run rates lower than National. Avis typically has everything but the kitchen sink, and even their rates are becoming competitive in some markets. So if other agencies can make it in this climate, why can't National?

They're not bad cars for what they are.

We're well past the point that Hyundai = cheap. The quality awards and APEAL scores should demonstrate that. It's also clear that rental agencies don't select their American fleet list on the basis of lowest depreciation. National's mainstream fleet selections are just the opposite: look for mainstays like PT Cruiser, Cadillac DTS, and Buick Lucerne and where they fall with Automotive Lease Guide.

https://www.alg.com/DepreciationRatings

I acknowledge that consumer depreciation rates may not be the same as 12-15 month, 30K mile daily rental depreciation, although lease agencies certainly exercise some control over age & mileage of the vehicles they remove from the fleet.

Return on capital ought to drive vehicle selections based on depreciation costs as well as initial purchase price. I doubt, however, that consumer excitement (apart from what is reflected in depreciation) figures much into fleet buyers' selections: very, very few renters (personal, and almost none at the corporate level) will consistently pay higher daily rates for 'good' cars. Reasonably clean, under 15K miles, a power seat, and off the lot in sixty seconds is perfectly fine in 99% of transactions.

Reasonably clean, under 15K miles, a power seat, and off the lot in sixty seconds is perfectly fine in 99% of transactions.

I agree with you there. I think part of the problem for me is that I'v e rented so much that I've driven almost everything National has to offer, so I'm bored. :p We don't get nearly as much variety as US locations, as in no Volvos, high-end Japanese, or sport models like the G6 GXP or Impala SS...

This weekend is Lollapolooza (sp?) - so I'm not surprised.

Oh great...I'm sure the city of Chicago wants those people behind the wheel of rental cars! :D ;)

Anyway, no problems at National: when I arrived, ES was well-stocked: a Lincoln small SUV, a Nissan Maxima, a Dodge Charger, a Camry, a Crown Vic and a couple of other sedans. (Sidebar: the Crown Vic gave me a bad Hertz flashback. I don't see many of those on National lots.)

We probably could have hustled over to the Lincoln, but there were two guys on our bus with golf clubs so I figured they could use it more than us. We took the Maxima.

The regular Aisle was thinner: a couple of midsize cars and a small SUv or some sorts (not a Lincoln).

Overall, the location seemed to have enough cars for everyone.