Korean Air Skypass - Female Pax Second-Class Citizens on KE?

I had my first long-haul business class flight on KE this week and noticed something I wanted to raise here. I'm working on a trip report for the whole nine-flight, five-airline journey, but this issue is about KE specifically.

Mrs. BearX220, our 15-year-old son and I flew in Prestige Class SYD-ICN on KE122 -- an eleven-hour, all-daylight flight that should bring out the full KE service experience. My wife perceived a clear lack of attention and even courtesy from the young cabin staff, all female except for the most senior purser.

When I wanted a beer I got up, went back to the galley, and asked for one; the FA refused to let me carry it back to the seat myself, but brought it to me on a tray with a flourish. When my wife wanted a glass of wine she went back to the galley and asked for one; she was curtly refused and told lunch was about to start (it started an hour later).

During meal service my son and I were offered rolls from the basket; my wife wasn't. We were offered coffee or tea; my wife wasn't. She was offered no drink refills. Our trays were collected promptly; my wife's sat empty for 30 minutes. At arrival my son and I were each given a personal farewell from a flight attendant; my wife was ignored.

The J load was light at 13 or 14 / 28. Mrs. Bear X220 was across the aisle from us in 8D; she might have appeared to be traveling alone. She was one of two Caucasian woman customers in the cabin.

While all the male passengers received some degree of fawning from the female crew (and the male purser complimented me on my teen son's graceful comportment up front), we noticed that Korean men got more; there was a guy in 1K, front row right, who got a supplicative visit every 30 minutes or so, plus trayed meals not served to the rest of us.

I was generally unhappy with the flight, but more because the hard product was terrible: a/c was an A330-300 with the ancient Prestige Class seats, comparable to first class seats on an American carrier only with less legroom. Very little recline, no amenity kit except for slippers, and terrible IFE. My wife was equally unhappy, but for cultural / service style reasons. As we were flying on award tickets she was philosophical about it, but, as she said, if she'd paid the full whack for that sort of treatment, she'd be angry.

We've flown Cathay and JAL in J and Y and not had this experience before. Was it unique on KE?

I know what you mean.
KE is a very feudal carrier. They pamper Korean politicians.
Or they are scared with them.
we noticed that Korean men got more; there was a guy in 1K, front row right, who got a supplicative visit every 30 minutes or so, plus trayed meals not served to the rest of us.

...there was a guy in 1K, front row right, who got a supplicative visit every 30 minutes or so... Not 1K -- I should have said 7H, the first row of the J cabin. The entire F cabin was dark and empty. Either they didn't sell any F tickets or didn't offer F on this run.

what means KE ? is there u r service to canada to uk?

what means KE ? is there u r service to canada to uk?

KE = Korean Air !

Welcome to FT ! :)

Cheers,

This is the first time I've heard different levels of service for male and female.
Are you guys Koreans?

that's odd... my wife recently flew icn to pvg in biz class solo, and she said the service was fantastic. btw, she is korean, if that makes any difference.

That's such a disappointment to hear.

Each and every one of my experiences in KE prestige have been great.
Side note: I am a Korean Female in my 20s.

If anything, I have noticed FAs paying more attention to Caucasian passengers.
Overall, it's all smiles and great service.

Personal note: I have never walked over to the galley myself to ask for anything on KE. Even when in Y, the FAs are extremely responsive when you hit the FA light on your seat. I think they prefer to come to you and not be caught off guard in the service area. But regardless, that shouldn't have affected service for your wife.

Are you guys Koreans? Both Caucasians in our late 40s.

Personal note: I have never walked over to the galley myself to ask for anything on KE. Yes, it struck me later that I might have committed a cultural misstep.

Yes, it struck me later that I might have committed a cultural misstep.

Unlike US carriers they don't treat the FA call button as an emergency one. You can hit it as often as you like.

Unlike US carriers they don't treat the FA call button as an emergency one. You can hit it as often as you like.

This is even true in coach. However, they walk around often enough that you can just catch them when they pass you.

This is even true in coach. However, they walk around often enough that you can just catch them when they pass you.

I'm used to popping into the galley to ask for a drink instead of pushing the call button. A CX FA who I knew told me that was embarrassing for the crew as they might feel they weren't doing their job properly. That said, not serving your wife sounds strange.

I had my first long-haul business class flight on KE this week and noticed something I wanted to raise here. I'm working on a trip report for the whole nine-flight, five-airline journey, but this issue is about KE specifically.

Mrs. BearX220, our 15-year-old son and I flew in Prestige Class SYD-ICN on KE122 -- an eleven-hour, all-daylight flight that should bring out the full KE service experience. My wife perceived a clear lack of attention and even courtesy from the young cabin staff, all female except for the most senior purser.

When I wanted a beer I got up, went back to the galley, and asked for one; the FA refused to let me carry it back to the seat myself, but brought it to me on a tray with a flourish. When my wife wanted a glass of wine she went back to the galley and asked for one; she was curtly refused and told lunch was about to start (it started an hour later).

During meal service my son and I were offered rolls from the basket; my wife wasn't. We were offered coffee or tea; my wife wasn't. She was offered no drink refills. Our trays were collected promptly; my wife's sat empty for 30 minutes. At arrival my son and I were each given a personal farewell from a flight attendant; my wife was ignored.

The J load was light at 13 or 14 / 28. Mrs. Bear X220 was across the aisle from us in 8D; she might have appeared to be traveling alone. She was one of two Caucasian woman customers in the cabin.

While all the male passengers received some degree of fawning from the female crew (and the male purser complimented me on my teen son's graceful comportment up front), we noticed that Korean men got more; there was a guy in 1K, front row right, who got a supplicative visit every 30 minutes or so, plus trayed meals not served to the rest of us.

I was generally unhappy with the flight, but more because the hard product was terrible: a/c was an A330-300 with the ancient Prestige Class seats, comparable to first class seats on an American carrier only with less legroom. Very little recline, no amenity kit except for slippers, and terrible IFE. My wife was equally unhappy, but for cultural / service style reasons. As we were flying on award tickets she was philosophical about it, but, as she said, if she'd paid the full whack for that sort of treatment, she'd be angry.

We've flown Cathay and JAL in J and Y and not had this experience before. Was it unique on KE?Wow, your post really hits home with me.

I just did a 5 segment trip on KE this month which consisted of JFK->ICN->BKK->ICN->NRT->LAX, in both F and J. I experienced much the same thing. The service was uneven; wonderful on three flights, and poor on two flights. Unfortunately the poor service was on the two longest legs, JFK->INC (13.5 hours in J) and NRT->LAX (9.5 hours in F).

My experience was that Korean speakers were fawned over, while others certainly less so. It felt like this was because the flight attendants English skills were not good enough to sufficiently engage the non-Korean speaking customers. When I ordering the meal service(s) pre-flight it was accomplished by pointing to the printed menu, which went fine. Past that, there was a clear failure to comprehend. I knew I was in trouble when requesting water became a drawn out process. During both of the poorly serviced flights I eventually broke off any expectations. Attempts to communicate were just not worth the effort involved, so I went to sleep until it was time to land.

I can understand a lack of English when non English stations are not in the route pairs (ICN-BKK for example) but there really should be some basic understanding when the flight originates or terminates in a predominately English speaking country, especially in the front of the bird.

My personal takeaway: if you do not speak Korean, do not fly KE.

I know what you mean.
KE is a very feudal carrier.Well put.

SunLover

Slightly off topic but..

Let me preface this by saying that i am a big guy and have a high tolerance for alcohol. I tend to have quite a few in the air so I can sleep several hours so..

I was flying from ICN-LAX in Prestige Class last month and I noticed that the flight attendants were very stingy with booze. I ordered a screwdriver and the FA poured 1/3rd of a mini and mixed it with OJ. I thought that it was a bit wierd but let it go. Later, I asked for another.... Same deal. 1/3rd from the same mini. I got a little upset and ordered wine as they cant cheat me on that. After about the 3rd glass of wine or so, i took about a 1 hour nap. When I woke up, i asked for another glass. I got a stern look from the F/A and she asked, " Are you sure? Are you ok?" I said yes, please get me another glass. I fininshed that one and then had one more with the same "Are you ok?" Mind you, this is like hour 5 or 6 on a 13 hr flight. Finally, I got sick of her questioning me and just quit asking. I felt as if I asking my mother for one more please.

Anyway, I've never encountered this on any other airline before. Usually on DL or NW, they hand me about 2-3 Mini's at a time with a can of OJ and leave me alone. I wasn't acting intoxicated or anything. Just watching the AVOD. Do Koreans just not drink of something? What am I missing?:eek:

I felt as if I asking my mother for one more please... I've never encountered this on any other airline before... Do Koreans just not drink of something? What am I missing? Yeah, that's another thing. On my KE flight the first beverage service was clearly designated "cocktails" in the graphic service plan in the inflight mag, but the cart bore no alcohol at all... only juices, coffee, and tea. Apart from the one glass of wine offered at lunch, getting a drink was a real effort. After lunch a cheese course was offered, and port, cognac, etc. were visible on the cart, but Caucasian pax at least were not offered any. I asked for some port and was given a plate of Brie (language barrier) and gave up. Flying back to the States the next day on NW, I had no trouble scoring a double Jack Daniels before noon.

In fact, my family and I embarked on this trip expecting KE to be the comfortable, fun part and NW to be the endurance contest. It was the other way around. In every category except food, which was pretty much a tie, NW blew KE out of the water; the two-hour ICN-NRT hop on a NW 752, staffed up front by terrific HNL-based crew, was the best flight I've had in years.

I dunno. Maybe it's because I've only flown in lowly economy, but - after about a dozen international flights on KE - my service has always been fine. Maybe the FAs' spoken english wasn't always perfect, but I never had much of a problem understanding them or being understood, and somehow I managed to get my bloody marys or beer without a hassle. On the NW and AA transpacific flights that I've been on most FAs use the talk louder approach with the non-english speakers ("I SAID, 'CHICKEN OR FISH!'") - god forbid they learn a few words of Japanese or Korean. And, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the KE FAs don't disappear between meal services the way that they did on my NW and AA (and even TG) transpacific flights.

Although I'm male, I haven't observed noticeably different treatment of female passengers, either. They received drinks and meals at the same times I did, had their trays removed the same time I did, etc. Hell, on ALL the KE flights I've been on there have been lavs specifically designated for ladies only.

I don't claim that KE is a perfect airline; these days all the airlines are getting less perfect as time goes on. But since the demise of Thai Air's JFK-BKK nonstop I've been flying IAD-ICN and ICN-BKK regularly on KE for the last couple of years and I have no complaints with the service.

I've flown KE several times, always in coach, and never experienced or seen anything like the OP, at least as far as the treatment of women goes (though I'm a Caucasian guy).

The Korean vs. Non-Korean thing, though, is totally believable. Koreans prefer to deal with Koreans, partially because of language and partially to avoid embarrassing cultural misunderstandings. Like in most East Asian cultures, embarrassing situations are avoided at all costs.

I've had FAs only want to deal with my (Korean) wife on anything more complicated than drink choice, though they were more comfortable once they discovered I could order in Korean as well.

On the flip side, I was once paying for snacks at NRT and had the cashier lean out to speak Japanese to my wife (who was standing behind me) instead of dealing with me. Didn't help her, since my wife doesn't speak more than a few words of Japanese.

Wow. I've flown KE countless times transpac in Prestige class, with my wife and daughter as well as by myself and all of us have received stellar service. Drink refills, extra rolls, the whole 9 yards.

On one occasion, I was famished and wolfed down my meal. The FA asked if I was still hungry and said there was an extra entree available if I was interested or, if I preferred, she could prepare the snack of spicy noodle soup accompanied by a rice ball and picked turnips. I took the snack.

...my family and I embarked on this trip expecting KE to be the comfortable, fun part and NW to be the endurance contest. It was the other way around. In every category except food, which was pretty much a tie, NW blew KE out of the water; the two-hour ICN-NRT hop on a NW 752, staffed up front by terrific HNL-based crew, was the best flight I've had in years.

I have done about eight transpac segments in C: NRT-LAX (both), ICN-LAX (KE-only). Wife with Japanese surname, and me (older white guy) have never had a negative experience on either airline.

On KE and occasionally with any other Asia-based FA, we usually experience this hilarious routine. FA (who has no doubt reads the manifest for pax's names.), addresses my wife in Japanese to take her food and beverage choice. Wife, who is learning Japanese, but can't quite understand it at full converational speed says, "I don't understand (in English or slow Japanese)." I laugh out loud. FA then realizes she is an American and we're married, and deftly switches to perfect English. The more senior and excellent KE FA's are actually the ones most likely to do the Japanese language thing because they are tri-lingual and trying the hardest to give excellent service.

Between the two, I give NW an edge for new and better hard cabin product, and higher mileage bonus for gold or better WorldPerks elites. Both soft products are fine with me. This may not be true in the future if KE remodels their cabin interiors and Delta cheapens the excellent NW transpac service.

I traveled several flights alone (I am female, caucasian, in my 20s) on KE earlier this year and never really had any issues like this, in fact I'd love to fly KE again. Then again, like others have said, I used the call button more liberally than I might on domestic flights (following other pax' lead on that one).

I find the Korean vs. Non-Korean service discrimination very believable, though, as it's really luck-of-the-draw as to how comfortable your FA is with English. I think it's less a matter of disdaining folks from other cultures, more just comfort level with the language.

All that said... I would be a lot more nervous travelling KE if I didn't understand and speak a fair bit of Korean. Even though I never needed to speak it on my flights, I was much more comfortable knowing I had that as a backup. And especially at ICN, announcements made by gate attendants in English are not always understandable.