American Express Membership Rewards - The Amex call is it the one everyone talks about?

:mad:
So after posting this thread
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-express-membership-rewards/973699-anyone-been-declined-cent-card.html
About 45 minutes later I get a call from Amex (Very weird almost like they monitor this board)

The lady asked for me by name and I accepted the call. She asked about the last charges on my account that were very high and what they were for. I explained and she said:

They need to verify that I have the funds to pay them in my account that I needed to get a letter from my bank with my average balance last X months.. I told her what that was and she said that is more than enough and if they could get this it would be great.

Question:
My spending limit on that card is low and every time I charged I paid it off as soon as it posted (wouldn't this show I have the funds in my account????!!!))
Also stated for "my convenience" they will keep the account open and not freeze it...

I am okay with all this and understand because of my young age and the amount of businesses I own and my spending but they really have no foot to stand on...

Interesting

what? that sounds like a total scam. i've never gotten a call from any amex that asks me to verify myself, my bank account, and my charges.

After all the threads and all the pages of posts about the antics of the American Express Company, I think everybody should write the following on the blackboard 100 times before going to bed tonight. . .

AMEX has the power to mess with me any freakin' way they want to. It may not be right; it may not be ethical; it may not be consistent; it may not be rational; it may not make sense to anybody but them. And, who knows, it may not even make sense to them. No matter. They can do it, they have done it, and they will do it again. If they do it to me, I have two choices: put up with it, or blow them off and do business with someone else. Amen.

Its not a scam I thought the same thing.

So they emailed me and I called the back of the card and they transfered me directly.

O well... if they do something beyond this by by Amex

EDIT: I will also stop accepting it in all my stores.

Its not a scam I thought the same thing.

So they emailed me and I called the back of the card and they transfered me directly.

O well... if they do something beyond this by by Amex

EDIT: I will also stop accepting it in all my stores.

If you have previously called to inquire about centurion (from your other post), then they are probably doing this in order to gather minimal asset information in an attempt to approve your centurion request which they knew was coming, as they more than likely documented your previous desire for a cent card.

After all the threads and all the pages of posts about the antics of the American Express Company, I think everybody should write the following on the blackboard 100 times before going to bed tonight. . .

AMEX has the power to mess with me any freakin' way they want to. It may not be right; it may not be ethical; it may not be consistent; it may not be rational; it may not make sense to anybody but them. And, who knows, it may not even make sense to them. No matter. They can do it, they have done it, and they will do it again. If they do it to me, I have two choices: put up with it, or blow them off and do business with someone else. Amen.

I disagree.

There are plenty of other credit companies that don't hassle you like the OP describes above. If Amex makes themselves a hassle, can them. There is no rule saying you have to put up with any of their crap whatsoever. Just cancel and replace them.

I disagree.

There are plenty of other credit companies that don't hassle you like the OP describes above. If Amex makes themselves a hassle, can them. There is no rule saying you have to put up with any of their crap whatsoever. Just cancel and replace them.

Um, isn't that pretty much what I said? What do you disagree with?

Um, isn't that pretty much what I said? What do you disagree with?

Sorry, I thought you were saying Amex will do what it will do, and there's nothing you can do about it. I misread. My apologies.

Okay so I found out it is a Bank/Credit Union Verification....

I honestly dont have a problem as long as they dont cancel my accounts since I use the cards so much.

I mean I can understand they are a little worried that the last 3 months I moved my charges over to amex and they have gone up insane amounts.

I do and don't disagree about other companies. Whenever I make a purchase somewhat large on either of my Visa cards (recently I made a $700 purchase, my credit limit on each card is $5,000), I get a call from them. They never ask for proof of ability to pay for it, they just verify I made the purchase.

Can't say I have ever had the same situation with Amex, though. And to the OP, I have to HIGHLY doubt that your age has ANYTHING to do with it. I've known plenty of Amex cardmembers, from clear up to CENT, probably younger than yourself and spend more than yourself (ah the LA lifestyle). Your payment habits, likely trigger more of a red flag at Amex. If this continues, call and speak to a supervisor about it.

Its not a scam I thought the same thing.

EDIT: I will also stop accepting it in all my stores.

I think this is a very unusual and unfair call for a boycott. If you would call for a boycott for everey company in which a member of staff makes a failure then the markets would soon be empty of many companies.

Just think about seriously what happened first and then later:
1.) Anywhere (I Don't know exactly where) sits a Credit or Risk Manager and watches the faltering economy in many business field in which many things don't be sure anymore. Prices are going down in many fields as consulting, webdesign, translating services and banking.
So what to do ? Just watch out the high risk and the -I would call- high turnovers. Because with a right decision there you can manage a risk equivalent to many average customers. ^
2.) You were disappointed by their decision not to change the colour of your card. Not more and not less. And then acted very unfriendly to that company which made a decision according to THEIR RULES and THEIR TERMS AND OCNTRACTS. And it is no right of a customer to get a specific card with a specific colour.

So I can understand what the risk manager does and how he tries to cope with the actual situation. That he/them make some faulty decisions is naturally true in that kind of business.

And naturally their alarm bells begin ringing when a customer is overcriticizing them for a decision which has nearly no impact on your business - like which colour your card has.

So if I would be customer and you would decline my Amex I will just go away - from your business and not from Amex.

P.S.: If one more time one may ask: Im not working for Amex corp but only a fan of their credit card due to nearly a decade of good service withut any interruptions and one fast help in a case of a phishing attack.

I think this is a very unusual and unfair call for a boycott.

Chriswufgator may be surprised :D, but for OP to decide not to do busines with Amex, is his call - whether unfair or not. And I don't think there is that much fair in love and money. Or at least it is much harder to to figure out. If it makes sense, do it. If you are able to keep your customers (with no decrease in sales), and just paying the lower visa merchant fees, you probably should have done this years ago. [And there was no call for a boycott either.]

But since I just cannot help myself; Plenty of CC companies hassle their customers. My Chase visa has a hickup every 10th charge. Amex every few hundred. Amex has to get better at these confirmation calls though. They may be necessary/helpful to avoid fraud, but could take less time with an automated solution.

The Amex call is it the one everyone talks about?


No. The Amex call that everyone talks about is usually a financial review, in which you are required to release your income tax informations to AMEX directly.

I disagree.

There are plenty of other credit companies that don't hassle you like the OP describes above. If Amex makes themselves a hassle, can them. There is no rule saying you have to put up with any of their crap whatsoever. Just cancel and replace them.

Like BofA? http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=402800

Or Chase? http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=402360

I can understand they are a little worried that the last 3 months I moved my charges over to amex and they have gone up insane amounts.

So AMEX advertises promotions like this...

More Rewards - Earn 25,000 additional points each year if you shift $50,000 of your business purchases onto the Card

...but then gets all worried when you actually shift spending to them. More and more of their practices are becoming nonsensical. The AMEX card use to give an insight into your business' financial breadth - but the product has been deteriorating so much, I'm not quite sure what it stands for now.

Chriswufgator may be surprised :D, but for OP to decide not to do busines with Amex, is his call - whether unfair or not. And I don't think there is that much fair in love and money. Or at least it is much harder to to figure out. If it makes sense, do it. If you are able to keep your customers (with no decrease in sales), and just paying the lower visa merchant fees, you probably should have done this years ago. [And there was no call for a boycott either.]

But since I just cannot help myself; Plenty of CC companies hassle their customers. My Chase visa has a hickup every 10th charge. Amex every few hundred. Amex has to get better at these confirmation calls though. They may be necessary/helpful to avoid fraud, but could take less time with an automated solution.

Check above, I was never the one calling for any boycott...

I just said don't tolerate a lot of stress from a company (or anyone for that matter) that is making money off you and giving you grief in return. That's pointless.

But I wasn't the one saying boycott Amex...

Like BofA? http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=402800

Or Chase? http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=402360

Oh come on...

You can dredge up a horror story or two or three about any company. It's the sheer number of horror stories, and all of them saying the same stuff, that is truly striking with Amex.

There is nowhere near as much chatter on the interwebs, let alone in the major national news services which have also run stories on Amex, about their tactics like closing your card based on where you shop, suspending your card for F/R while you're out of the country, etc., etc., regarding any other issuer.

The FR lady I spoke with was very nice I came off very polite with her so we actually had a few conversations before they cleared my card.

She explained it like this:

You are using a charge card not a credit card. And in the terms and conditions of Amex they subject you to a annual review. They have a computer system that flags random cards based upon many criteria. I know why mine got flagged and it was understandable. My situation was like this:

I normally charge about 15k a month on this particular card.
The last 2 months I have charged about 30k and just paid it off in full every week so I dont have a high balance. About 3 days before I went online and submitted a increase in that card limit they called me. Since I payed everything off frequently they kept all my accounts open and she was nice to explain this exact situation.

I had my banker send her the info in 48 hours and she called back to tell me thank you very much for your business you are more than clear of the FR we hope the best for your business etc etc..

Slightly went out of my way but after all we are leveraging 20-50k a month in charges and if you are a smart business man can be making a good amount of money on this in 25-33 days...

Oh come on...

You can dredge up a horror story or two or three about any company. It's the sheer number of horror stories, and all of them saying the same stuff, that is truly striking with Amex.

There is nowhere near as much chatter on the interwebs, let alone in the major national news services which have also run stories on Amex, about their tactics like closing your card based on where you shop, suspending your card for F/R while you're out of the country, etc., etc., regarding any other issuer.

Two or three on the first page of CB today. No search required. BofA is whacking accounts left and right.

Chase OTOH, is closing or CLDing more than 3 million acquired WaMu accounts.

I'm just pointing out again, that Amex isn't alone. But unless they close your account, there's no cause for jihad, right? :rolleyes:

The FR lady I spoke with was very nice I came off very polite with her so we actually had a few conversations before they cleared my card.

She explained it like this:

You are using a charge card not a credit card. And in the terms and conditions of Amex they subject you to a annual review. They have a computer system that flags random cards based upon many criteria. I know why mine got flagged and it was understandable. My situation was like this:

I normally charge about 15k a month on this particular card.
The last 2 months I have charged about 30k and just paid it off in full every week so I dont have a high balance. About 3 days before I went online and submitted a increase in that card limit they called me. Since I payed everything off frequently they kept all my accounts open and she was nice to explain this exact situation.

I had my banker send her the info in 48 hours and she called back to tell me thank you very much for your business you are more than clear of the FR we hope the best for your business etc etc..

Slightly went out of my way but after all we are leveraging 20-50k a month in charges and if you are a smart business man can be making a good amount of money on this in 25-33 days...

This slightly contradicts itself:

1. You are using a charge card, not a credit card.
2. You say that the FR rep explained that the T&C of the charge card says you agree that you may be submitted to an annual review.
3. What triggered it was you "went online and submitted a credit increase in that card".

Huh?

If you have a charge card - then there is no credit limit to increase, not online nor anwhere else. It is, theoretically, "no monthly limit" and based solely on history and ability to pay. So what are you referring to when you "increased" a limit online that doesn't exisit to begin with?

And if you actually "submitted a credit increase online" - then you have a credit card, not a charge card.

So what does it mean when you say the FR rep explained that you agree to an annual review in the T&C of the charge card?

Two or three on the first page of CB today. No search required. BofA is whacking accounts left and right.

Chase OTOH, is closing or CLDing more than 3 million acquired WaMu accounts.

I'm just pointing out again, that Amex isn't alone. But unless they close your account, there's no cause for jihad, right? :rolleyes:

Amex hasn't closed my accounts, though they did send me a letter capping my flexible spending thingy at $10k. Hardly the end of the world, and I'm certainly not on any jihad.

But I've yet to see Chase or BOA make the nightly news, or internet message boards for that matter, for such practices as discriminating against you based on where you shop, or arbitrarily suspending your card while out of the country and demanding documents within 5 days that you won't even have access to until you return home. One story I read, the guy was checking into his hotel in Hawaii on his honeymoon, and his card getting declined in front of his new wife was how he found out about the F/R.

So again, I don't hear many stories of this kind of ridiculous behavior from the other issuers. A simple CLD or polite income verification is one thing, but demanding 1040's, cutting off your card without notice, and making credit decisions based on what stores you shop in, are obnoxious, and are exclusively Amex territory. You really believe this is a reasonable way to treat good customers?

Amex hasn't closed my accounts, though they did send me a letter capping my flexible spending thingy at $10k. Hardly the end of the world, and I'm certainly not on any jihad.

Yes you are.

So again, I don't hear many stories of this kind of ridiculous behavior from the other issuers. A simple CLD or polite income verification is one thing, but demanding 1040's, cutting off your card without notice, and making credit decisions based on what stores you shop in, are obnoxious, and are exclusively Amex territory. You really believe this is a reasonable way to treat good customers?

I guess 3 million closures/CLD's isn't enough, huh?

A simple CLD? I imagine if you're on the plane to your honeymoon in Hawaii when the Chase/WaMu axe comes down, you're pretty much hosed too right?

How can you dismiss 3 million WaMu cardholders like they don't matter? Maybe because these former Providian cardholders aren't as affluent as Amex's and tend to not scream about AA on internet boards?

Why is it so hard to simply admit that all card issues are jacking with their customers right now, and that Amex was only first because they aren't a bank? They didn't have time to do it in an orderly fashion because their funding was cut off?

This slightly contradicts itself:

1. You are using a charge card, not a credit card.
2. You say that the FR rep explained that the T&C of the charge card says you agree that you may be submitted to an annual review.
3. What triggered it was you "went online and submitted a credit increase in that card".

Huh?

If you have a charge card - then there is no credit limit to increase, not online nor anwhere else. It is, theoretically, "no monthly limit" and based solely on history and ability to pay. So what are you referring to when you "increased" a limit online that doesn't exisit to begin with?

And if you actually "submitted a credit increase online" - then you have a credit card, not a charge card.

So what does it mean when you say the FR rep explained that you agree to an annual review in the T&C of the charge card?
When she called she mentioned the Platinum card
But when she questioned the 5 large charges in was in regards to the Costco so I really didnt understand her but of course did not want to question her as soon as she called..
So they use the whole "we arent a credit card company" when they refer to your platinum...?

Yes you are.

No, I'm not.


I guess 3 million closures/CLD's isn't enough, huh?

I'd venture to guess Amex has given AA to FAR more than 3 million. But in any event, you're apparently confusing the issue. If an issuer wants to cut its risk, great, it certainly has the right to do so. Amex crossed the line, by discriminating against its own customers based on where they live and shop, suspending cards of 20+ year customers with no notice, and then demanding documentation normally reserved only for a mortgage application, and so on and so forth. So tell me, when was the last time WaMu/Chase engaged in these practices?

Oh that's right, they didn't.


A simple CLD? I imagine if you're on the plane to your honeymoon in Hawaii when the Chase/WaMu axe comes down, you're pretty much hosed too right?


At least they'll send you a letter. :rolleyes:


How can you dismiss 3 million WaMu cardholders like they don't matter? Maybe because these former Providian cardholders aren't as affluent as Amex's and tend to not scream about AA on internet boards?

Again, based on the sheer number of complaints floating around, Amex has screwed with far more than 3 million. But at the end of the day, neither one of us know, so your comparison will never really hold any water.

And again, you're missing the point. It's not necessarily what is done, but how it's done.


Why is it so hard to simply admit that all card issues are jacking with their customers right now, and that Amex was only first because they aren't a bank? They didn't have time to do it in an orderly fashion because their funding was cut off?

I'm not talking about jacking rates. Again, I've had the same issues with Amex from the day I heard about them. Demanding 1040's or they cut off your card without notice, discriminating based on where you live and shop, etc., etc., etc. Unless you can show me where Chase engages in these obnoxious practices, then your entire post has absolutely nothing to do with what bothers me about Amex.

What difference does it make if a lender bases the decision to "fire you" as a customer if you shop at Aldi or Wal-Mart or if your Experian AR number is too high? If all you have is a Providian/WaMu card and they cancel it, the impact is largely the same as if you get on the wrong end of an F/R by Amex. In some ways its much worse as those Providian cardholders probably don't qualify for an Amex, and I've yet to hear of anyone that only carries an Amex.

Again, based on the sheer number of complaints floating around, Amex has screwed with far more than 3 million. But at the end of the day, neither one of us know, so your comparison will never really hold any water.

Are we back to your 3 million hit google search? :rolleyes:

No matter how you "feel" about how many people Amex have F/Red, CLD'ed, or canceled; no matter what facts you dismiss (that have been presented via links, articles, or other cites), the end result is still the same. People everywhere are being impacted by the credit crunch. All the major card issuers are scaling back.

Singling Amex out for what you call their "obnoxious behavior" when all card issuers are responding in kind is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500. At least with Amex, they give you the option to save your card by submitting data. Chase, HSBC, Barclays/Juniper, and BofA just say "buh-bye".

What difference does it make if a lender bases the decision to "fire you" as a customer if you shop at Aldi or Wal-Mart or if your Experian AR number is too high? If all you have is a Providian/WaMu card and they cancel it, the impact is largely the same as if you get on the wrong end of an F/R by Amex. In some ways its much worse as those Providian cardholders probably don't qualify for an Amex, and I've yet to hear of anyone that only carries an Amex.



Are we back to your 3 million hit google search? :rolleyes:

No matter how you "feel" about how many people Amex have F/Red, CLD'ed, or canceled; no matter what facts you dismiss (that have been presented via links, articles, or other cites), the end result is still the same. People everywhere are being impacted by the credit crunch. All the major card issuers are scaling back.

Singling Amex out for what you call their "obnoxious behavior" when all card issuers are responding in kind is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500. At least with Amex, they give you the option to save your card by submitting data. Chase, HSBC, Barclays/Juniper, and BofA just say "buh-bye".

So, you'll note that I asked you to point to some evidence showing that WaMu/Chase engages in discriminating against its own customers based upon where they live and shop, shuts cards off without warning until you provide documents normally reserved for a mortgage application rather than a credit card, etc., etc.

Obviously you haven't done so.

I don't really know what your point is. Amex can CLD anybody they want, I couldn't care less about that. However basing adverse action on where someone lives, what they buy, or where they shop, I consider to cross the line. I've expressed my ethical concerns over this behavior, and none of your statements even remotely address what bothers me about this company.

So what exactly is your point here? If you just want to rant and rave, and compare apples to oranges, then find someone else. My issues over this corporation's behavior have been repeatedly stated, and nothing you're currently bringing up addresses them. You're literally arguing with yourself.

So, you'll note that I asked you to point to some evidence showing that WaMu/Chase engages in discriminating against its own customers based upon where they live and shop, shuts cards off without warning until you provide documents normally reserved for a mortgage application rather than a credit card, etc., etc.

I can't. My Chase cards (including the one that came over from WaMu) is so far still intact. You read CreditBoards, look at the link above. People are finding out through the website, some may even be out of town and having their cards denied. The letters are a week behind.

My point is pretty simple: the reason behind closing an account or decreasing a limit doesn't matter. They can make up any reason they want. Where you shop (Amex), Where you live (CapOne), Because you haven't used that card in 4-6 months (HSBC), Because your balances are too high (pretty much everyone), whatever.

Yesterday they considered you a good risk, today they don't. The end result is the same: you don't have a card anymore.

Every bank is firing customers, every bank is reducing exposure. Singling out Amex (as you continue to do) is ridiculous.

My point is pretty simple: the reason behind closing an account or decreasing a limit doesn't matter. They can make up any reason they want. Where you shop (Amex), Where you live (CapOne), Because you haven't used that card in 4-6 months (HSBC), Because your balances are too high (pretty much everyone), whatever.

Yesterday they considered you a good risk, today they don't. The end result is the same: you don't have a card anymore.

Every bank is doing it.

Singling out Amex (as you continue to do) is ridiculous.

I'm not singling them out, they've singled themselves out by having the most obnoxious and draconian risk-management practices out of any major issuer, and concurrently, having one of the highest default rates. No other issuer engages in the offensive practices I've mentioned, which is a point you've repeatedly dodged in this discussion.

And, according to you, the end result is all that ever matters in anything? The methods used to achieve that result have no relevance? Honestly, are you joking? I guess by your yardstick Bernie Madoff is a real successful guy, since he made billions...doesn't matter how he got the money, right? :rolleyes:

I'm not singling them out, they've singled themselves out by having the most obnoxious and draconian risk-management practices out of any major issuer, and concurrently, having one of the highest default rates. No other issuer engages in the offensive practices I've mentioned, which is a point you've repeatedly dodged in this discussion.

Sigh. They all do. Some are not as honest or forthright with their reasoning.

Cap One stopped issuing cards in Florida, remember? "Worsening economic issues in your area" http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10474.html

BofA closed a guy's account because he wanted a BT: http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=402800

HSBC just closed my wife's Saks Mastercard because she hadn't used it in 6 months.

Amex never closed a card because of where someone shopped. It was always one of about 5 reason quoted. The single biggest factor in Amex closings/CLDs was a derog on a report or a sudden increase in AR % (balances owed). Typical signs of distress. One reason was not enough, 4-5 were. How do I know this? Because I used my Amex cards at Wal-Mart, Marshalls, TJ Maxx, etc and my accounts (along with millions of others) are "just fine".


And, according to you, the end result is all that ever matters in anything? The methods used to achieve that result have no relevance? Honestly, are you joking? I guess by your yardstick Bernie Madoff is a real successful guy, since he made billions...doesn't matter how he got the money, right? :rolleyes:

Right. :rolleyes:

You can keep on ignoring the fact that for whatever reason last week (month, year) the lender thought their customer wasn't a risk. Now for likely a myriad of reasons this week they do. So they made the business decision to "fire the customer". Its OK for a customer to fire a company, but never OK for a company to fire a customer, right? :rolleyes:

Don't take it personally, It just business.

Sigh. They all do. Some are not as honest or forthright with their reasoning.

Cap One stopped issuing cards in Florida, remember? "Worsening economic issues in your area" http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10474.html

BofA closed a guy's account because he wanted a BT: http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=402800

HSBC just closed my wife's Saks Mastercard because she hadn't used it in 6 months.

Amex never closed a card because of where someone shopped. It was always one of about 5 reason quoted. The single biggest factor in Amex closings/CLDs was a derog on a report or a sudden increase in AR % (balances owed). Typical signs of distress. One reason was not enough, 4-5 were. How do I know this? Because I used my Amex cards at Wal-Mart, Marshalls, TJ Maxx, etc and my accounts (along with millions of others) are "just fine".




Right. :rolleyes:

You can keep on ignoring the fact that for whatever reason last week (month, year) the lender thought their customer wasn't a risk. Now for likely a myriad of reasons this week they do. So they made the business decision to "fire the customer". Its OK for a customer to fire a company, but never OK for a company to fire a customer, right? :rolleyes:

Don't take it personally, It just business.

A: I'm not taking anything personally, at all.

B: Amex has closed cards solely for where people shop. Read the original news stories about it, or better yet, since you keep referring me to CB, there are multiple stories of people getting AA or closure, with the only explanation on the letter being "Based on our repayment experience with other cardholders who...". So you're wrong as to that one. Amex tried to backpedal in their interview about it, saying that was only part of a "matrix" but it was B.S., they actually were closing people down for solely that reason.

C: For the 456th time, I don't care about CLD's. I also don't care about closure for non-useage. In fact I think closing someone's account who literally never uses it for a period of 6 months or a year is a wise move. It costs money to board and maintain accounts, send statements, issue cards, etc. Why go to the expense for someone who never ultimately uses the product?

D: My issue with Amex is, and always has been, 1: The Abusive F/R process, and, 2: Discriminating against its own customers based on where they live, where they shop, and what they buy. I consider this to be a misuse of information, and unethical.

You keep coming back with these silly arguments pointing out that other issuers are taking adverse action against their customers as well. So what? I couldn't care less. My point is, and has always been, letter "D" in this post. So every time you want to keep coming back with more irrelevant stuff that doesn't remotely apply to my concerns, just re-read letter "D" and you'll answer your own question.

I've asked you repeatedly to find me so much as one instance of another issuer using your own purchasing data against you, or suspending your card without notice and demanding direct access to your IRS records. You can't provide this, for the simple reason that none of them do. Except Amex. I find this to be outrageous behavior, even in the current climate. Again, I don't care about CLD's or whatnot, that isn't the point.

E: You're the one who made the "ends always justify the means" argument, not me. Sorry if picking that one off was just such low hanging fruit that I couldn't resist, but honestly, that never flies. And as to the debate between customer responsibility vs. corporate responsibility, yes, I believe there should be some accountability. The customer can't unilaterally lower his interest rate, raise his credit limit, etc. Provided the customer honors the terms of his obligation, I believe the lender ought to be held to some kind of account in acting predictable and stable.

I think the whole concept of these open-ended "any reason, any time" contracts, where the lender has every right and the consumer has none, and where the consumer's only redress is arbitration conducted by an arbitrator of the lender's choice located in Alaska or wherever, are ridiculous, and unreasonable. Apparently a majority of this country, and certainly of congress, disagrees with your viewpoint, given the recent legislation addressing some of this. And I'm glad that's the case.

Cap One stopped issuing cards in Florida, remember? "Worsening economic issues in your area" http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10474.html


I'm going to have to disagree with that one.

I just picked up a Cap1 "No Hassle Cash Rewards" a few weeks ago, and I live in Florida. Approval wasn't instant, they pulled all 3 CRA's, and then called to verify a bunch of stuff, but they did approve the account. I also know a handful of folks who've financed cars with Cap1 relatively recently, and they certainly didn't seem dissatisfied with the process and they also live in Florida.

So I guess YMMV on this one.

I'm going to have to disagree with that one.

I just picked up a Cap1 "No Hassle Cash Rewards" a few weeks ago, and I live in Florida. Approval wasn't instant, they pulled all 3 CRA's, and then called to verify a bunch of stuff, but they did approve the account. I also know a handful of folks who've financed cars with Cap1 relatively recently, and they certainly didn't seem dissatisfied with the process and they also live in Florida.

So I guess YMMV on this one.

Yes, after Rep Frank of Massachusetts threatened CapOne (http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090423/NEWS/904230348), they stopped the practice. Much as Amex did with their 'shopping profiling' once it became public.

So, hopefully, as a man of integrity, you'll end your relationship with CapOne. Because clearly, like Amex, they based their decisions for extending credit based on where their customers live. This is a misuse of information, and is unethical.

But you're welcome to ignore the scan of the letter, or the news articles (http://davidgreen.com/credit-discimination-based-on-zip-code-by-capitalone.htm).

You keep coming back with these silly arguments pointing out that other issuers are taking adverse action against their customers as well. So what? I couldn't care less. My point is, and has always been, letter "D" in this post. So every time you want to keep coming back with more irrelevant stuff that doesn't remotely apply to my concerns, just re-read letter "D" and you'll answer your own question.

Thanks, will do.

BTW, have you ended your relationship with Amex yet?

After all the threads and all the pages of posts about the antics of the American Express Company, I think everybody should write the following on the blackboard 100 times before going to bed tonight. . .

AMEX has the power to mess with me any freakin' way they want to. It may not be right; it may not be ethical; it may not be consistent; it may not be rational; it may not make sense to anybody but them. And, who knows, it may not even make sense to them. No matter. They can do it, they have done it, and they will do it again. If they do it to me, I have two choices: put up with it, or blow them off and do business with someone else. Amen.

Amen