JetBlue TrueBlue - Stupid old man on Flt 179 (JFK-PHX) 22 June

So just as we taxi onto the runway, an eldery guy gets up and walks right up and into the restroom as the engines are spooling up. The FAs were yelling at him over the PA to return to his seat and he paid no heed. I realize that when we get older, certain bodily functions can become unpredictable, but this guy could have been seriously injured had the plane actually began its takeoff roll. We didn't even have a long taxi time...maybe 5-10 minutes. Probably the shortest taxi time ever (IME) at JFK. While I too may one day need to pee every 30 minutes, if I don't think I could go for over an hour without using the bathroom, I wouldn't get on a plane.

I don't know if it was a result of this man's behavior, but the FAs seemed "off" for the flight...no "you're welcomes" after I said "thank you"...little things like that.

Other than that, great flight and we got in nearly 30 minutes early!

As an inflight crewmember, the bathroom thing always amazes me. I believe, for the most part, that people that fly on a plane have done so more than once. So when we're about to close the door and a person asks to use the restroom and I say "no" and they get upset, I am perplexed. Is the individual not aware there are restrooms in the terminal? Surely the person should know he/she will be on a plane soon, and maybe during boarding would be the best time for a last minute stop... But, whatever... :p

I had a similar situation last month when arriving in to GRB. Some elderly man got up to grab his bags from the overhead and we hadn't even turned off the active runway yet. The FAs were telling him to sit down and he paid no mind. He was in la-la land. What was more disturbing was that neither his wife nor any of the people seated around him tried to correct him.

As an inflight crewmember, the bathroom thing always amazes me. I believe, for the most part, that people that fly on a plane have done so more than once. So when we're about to close the door and a person asks to use the restroom and I say "no" and they get upset, I am perplexed. Is the individual not aware there are restrooms in the terminal? Surely the person should know he/she will be on a plane soon, and maybe during boarding would be the best time for a last minute stop... But, whatever... :p

Could not agree more!

Not that this changes the situation, but it could change your perspective.

As my father was descending into dementia and Alzheimer's, stressful situations would have a big impact on his behavior. It wasn't until we had hindsight that we realized he shouldn't have been travelling anymore.

At the end of his life he had zero short term memory.....in hindsight, when he was stressed in the last five years, his short-term memory went to zero....literally....he would forget the response to a question he asked immediately upon hearing it...and then ask it again several times in row. And he'd got very disoriented....he easily could have not realized he was on a plane (had we ever put him in that situation). Looking back, this is very much what happened to him in unfamiliar stressful situations years earlier, before we'd come to grips with his condition.

Which is to say start with empathy before anger...people with Alzheimer's can be deep into it before they know it. And it can come out in strange ways. And their loved ones can be in a bit of denial too, being too close to the situation

Now this guy could be a 100% healthy-ignorant-donkey who just thinks he's smarter than everybody else....but there's also the possibility I've discussed above.

Which is to say start with empathy before anger...people with Alzheimer's can be deep into it before they know it. And it can come out in strange ways. And their loved ones can be in a bit of denial too, being too close to the situation

Now this guy could be a 100% healthy-ignorant-donkey who just thinks he's smarter than everybody else....but there's also the possibility I've discussed above.
That's a good point, and as my grandmother lived with dementia the last years of her life, I can appreciate your perspective.

This guy just didn't care though. When he got back to his seat his wife told him "we were ready to leave and we had to wait for you" to which he replied "I don't care!"

Gee, is America becoming so mean spirited.:eek:?

Is it really neccessary to refer to him as "stupid"? :td:He probably has dementia and is having some troubles. Isn't some EMPATHY in order?
Why do you assume that he is doing any of this on purpose? People with dementia say inappropriate things sometimes. It's called neuronal death. Do you have any idea of how the brain functions? Look it up and become better educated. You'd be a tad irritable too if you couldn't remember.

Maybe the poster should be greatful that he (hopefully) does not have a neurological illness.

Gee, is America becoming so mean spirited.:eek:?

Is it really neccessary to refer to him as "stupid"? :td:He probably has dementia and is having some troubles. Isn't some EMPATHY in order?
Why do you assume that he is doing any of this on purpose? People with dementia say inappropriate things sometimes. You'd be a tad irritable too if you couldn't remember. You are sure in a big hurry to judge.

Maybe the poster should be greatful that he (hopefully) does not have a neurological illness.
I could hear the man talking during the flight. He does not have dementia. As I posted above, I know all too well what dementia does to people.

Didn't you detect any empathy in my first post? If not, you need to read it closer.

I called him stupid because he was. He knew what he was doing and he ignored repeated calls to return to his seat. That is stupid. No other way to spin it.

And if, by some chance, he did have some mental issue, he needs to be seated next to his wife. The person in the middle offered to move so they could be together, both declined the offer, saying they got the seats they wanted.

I could hear the man talking during the flight. He does not have dementia. As I posted above, I know all too well what dementia does to people.

Didn't you detect any empathy in my first post? If not, you need to read it closer.

I called him stupid because he was. He knew what he was doing and he ignored repeated calls to return to his seat. That is stupid. No other way to spin it.

And if, by some chance, he did have some mental issue, he needs to be seated next to his wife. The person in the middle offered to move so they could be together, both declined the offer, saying they got the seats they wanted.

You heard him talking and you're going to say he doesn't have dementia?

Do you have the education to make such bold statements? So now you're a doctor? I seriously doubt it.
If you were you would know that diagnosis takes a very careful and detailed evaluation.

There is no empathy in your statements, but you sure are quick to pass judgement on the poor man.
Calling someone with an illness "stupid" is, well,....................

Signing off as your post is quite offensive.

I could hear the man talking during the flight. He does not have dementia. As I posted above, I know all too well what dementia does to people.

Didn't you detect any empathy in my first post? If not, you need to read it closer.

I called him stupid because he was. He knew what he was doing and he ignored repeated calls to return to his seat. That is stupid. No other way to spin it.

And if, by some chance, he did have some mental issue, he needs to be seated next to his wife. The person in the middle offered to move so they could be together, both declined the offer, saying they got the seats they wanted.

There are varying levels of dementia. Many people with dementia can speak very well. And since this occurred on takeoff, it is unlikely that you had a long time to observe him. Will I admit that it is a possibility that it was indeed a foolish person intent on doing whatever he wanted? Yes, I will. Will you admit that you are not an expert on dementia, and it is indeed possible that he did have dementia? I doubt it. And besides, one of the many problems caused by dementia is that many people who do have it tend to get up and wander off. That's one of the many reasons why it is important if someone has a person with dementia living with them to always have that person wear an ID bracelet. And does it make you feel better to have referred to him as a "stupid old man"? Will your next thread be titled, "stupid old woman", or "stupid black person (or worse)"., or "stupid gay person"?, etc. I truly hope neither of your parents ever gets dementia, because I will feel sorry for them, not only for getting it, but for your attitude. But I guess then it will be okay to call your Dad "a stupid old man". right?

You heard him talking and you're going to say he doesn't have dementia?

Do you have the education to make such bold statements? So now you're a doctor? I seriously doubt it.
If you were you would know that diagnosis takes a very careful and detailed evaluation.

There is no empathy in your statements, but you sure are quick to pass judgement on the poor man.
Calling someone with an illness "stupid" is, well,....................

Signing off as your post is quite offensive.

Everyone is so easily offended these days. Sheesh.

No, I am not a doctor. But I have seen dementia first hand from beginning to end. I think I can reasonably recognize the signs. You are so quick to assume he has a mental illness and forgive his actions with no proof whatsoever. Why is that diagnosis okay, but mine is not?

If he does have an illness, why is he not sitting next to his wife so that she can properly care for him? Why was the crew not made aware his condition so that they too could keep an eye on him. An adult with dementia on a plane needs more attention than an unaccompanied minor IMO. If he gets up, his wife needed to say something about his condition so that he could be helped if she was physically unable to help him herself. None of this happened.

I realize that when we get older, certain bodily functions can become unpredictable, but this guy could have been seriously injured had the plane actually began its takeoff roll.

That is from my original post. I acknowledge that as we age, our bodies break down and I show concern that he may have been injured as a result of his actions.

Since I was actually on the plane, and, AFAIK, you were not, I stand by my assessment that the man's actions were stupid and that he knew what he was doing and didn't care.

There are varying levels of dementia. Many people with dementia can speak very well. And since this occurred on takeoff, it is unlikely that you had a long time to observe him. Will I admit that it is a possibility that it was indeed a foolish person intent on doing whatever he wanted? Yes, I will. Will you admit that you are not an expert on dementia, and it is indeed possible that he did have dementia? I doubt it. And besides, one of the many problems caused by dementia is that many people who do have it tend to get up and wander off. That's one of the many reasons why it is important if someone has a person with dementia living with them to always have that person wear an ID bracelet. And does it make you feel better to have referred to him as a "stupid old man"? Will your next thread be titled, "stupid old woman", or "stupid black person (or worse)"., or "stupid gay person"?, etc. I truly hope neither of your parents ever gets dementia, because I will feel sorry for them, not only for getting it, but for your attitude. But I guess then it will be okay to call your Dad "a stupid old man". right?

I had plenty of time to observe him. He was seated 3 seats away from me (I was in 8C, his wife in 8D, a woman not traveling in their party in 8E, and he in 8F) for 4.5 hours. Had I posted this thread as the incident was taking place, I would agree with you. I never once observed my grandma, with dementia, "wander off" to the bathroom and then return right back to the place she was before after she took care of her needs. To me, that doesn't fit the definition of "wandering." Does that make me an expert on dementia? Of course not.

I think I have been more than fair in stating that if he did indeed have a problem, then those traveling with him need to help him. So if it will make all the overly sensitive folks out there feel better, I am sorry I called him stupid. It was his wife that must be stupid since she must surely be aware of his mental state and she didn't stop him or offer him/ask for any assistance.

As for the remainder of your post, it is immature. Or am I not allowed to say that, either?

Dear lord, people. Give the OP a break.
What they guy did was stupid. Period.

His wife is stupid, too, for not stopping him.

Why whenever anyone does something stupid do people have to make up IMAGINARY what-ifs to justify the stupid behavior?

And does it make you feel better to have referred to him as a "stupid old man"? Will your next thread be titled, "stupid old woman", or "stupid black person (or worse)"., or "stupid gay person"?,

Assuming this guy doesn't have dementia, the title is fine, he is acting stupid according to the poster he was old and he was a man. I would have no problem with a post that titled "Stupid Old Women", "Stupid Black Person" or "Stupid gay person" (only if the person knew for a fact that the person was gay). I would be offended by Stupid N-word or Stupid F-word (describing the gay guy).

Going to chime in here...

As a teenager I worked at a service station in a retirement community in southern Arizona. Once in a while a customer would come in and everything would be fine until you realized they were asking for directions to their house in Cleveland, was wearing very odd garments (or none), insisting on buying gas for their car even though they were on foot. Dementia is often very difficult to spot.

Occasionally, however, some of the elderly customers were rude, obnoxious, and cared only about themselves. Pretty typical of the human population at all ages. Self-absorbed people do not suddenly get respectful of others just because they age.

Considering what I am going through with my beloved father, the man could also have chosen to delay the flight and look like a jerk rather than humiliate himself by losing control and wetting or messing himself.

We don't know. Yes, the OP in the first post mentioned how injured the man could have been. But I think using the word "stupid" with 'old' is a magnet for criticism and guaranteed to raise most people's ire.

Dear lord, people. Give the OP a break.
What they guy did was stupid. Period.

His wife is stupid, too, for not stopping him.

Why whenever anyone does something stupid do people have to make up IMAGINARY what-ifs to justify the stupid behavior?


NO, and to a degree I agree with you. We all agree that what the man did was stupid. But, thankfully, we still have respect for the elderly.

I can understand the frustration, but a different wording would have been nice. (and I am rarely PC)

Sounds to me like this guy was just an a55hole, not stupid or demented.

As someone who does not have dementia (I think) I can think of only one thing that would cause me to leave my seat and withstand the anger of the FA's and passengers around me at that time - and imagine how the title would have read if that was the case and he didn't get up to go to the bathroom....

"Smelly and stupid old man on Flt 179"

He was probably just unable to hold it - it happens. And he could have gone 2 minutes before he boarded and had another attack of intestinal distress, or maybe he had to vomit? Could have been much, much worse.

Sounds to me like this guy was just an a55hole, not stupid or demented.

Given 2 choices, would you rather he explode in his pants, soil the seat and cause you to and the FAs to have a difficult flight, or get up and go to the bathroom even if he was not demented? And please don't say he shouldn't be on the plane. One time returning from Southern France (bad pizza believe it or not) I was on the plane and simply had to go. I could not wait another minute. There was no way. Fortunately for me, we were at cruising altitude. If we had not have been, I would have hit the FA button and explained things to the FA. She would have had the same 2 choices I am giving you.

Given 2 choices, would you rather he explode in his pants, soil the seat and cause you to and the FAs to have a difficult flight, or get up and go to the bathroom even if he was not demented? And please don't say he shouldn't be on the plane. One time returning from Southern France (bad pizza believe it or not) I was on the plane and simply had to go. I could not wait another minute. There was no way. Fortunately for me, we were at cruising altitude. If we had not have been, I would have hit the FA button and explained things to the FA. She would have had the same 2 choices I am giving you.
I highlighted in bold the key parts of your statement.

You would have hit the button and explained matters to the FA. Good.

You would not have ignored them and continued moving FORWARD to the front of the plane (toward the cockpit) on a flight about to depart New York City, moving right past the FA that is imploring you to take your seat, entering the restroom, leaving 30 seconds later, and explaining to your wife that you "don't care" that we were on an active runway about to take off until you decided you had to go.

His actions could have hurt him, could have hurt others if the pilot had to stop the plane had it begun it's roll, and could have forced a plane to abort landing and go around since we were still sitting on the runway...though I realize the last one is a bit of a stretch...I doubt planes take off and land on the same runway very often at JFK during good weather.