Alitalia MilleMiglia - Alitalia SUCKS!

Horrible situation... I actually warned my friend before she booked her flight and I told her not to use Alitalia but she did because it's SkyTeam and she wanted to get the miles for Delta.

Leaving from ACC to LHR, she was booked on AZ with a layover in FCO. She checked her flight the night before ONLINE, the flight was on-time (no changes). She went to the airport the day of travel, and the agent told her the flight was canceled. She questioned how and when because she had just checked it the night before, and the guy wouldn't answer any of her questions and wouldn't help her. There comes the nervous breakdown at the airport. After many arguments, the agent finally tells her it had been canceled for TWO WEEKS! (Can anyone believe this?) Now, Alitalia NEVER contacted her by phone, e-mail or ANY means. She said the man was the rudest ever and he was not willing to help her in any way, even to rebook her on another airline. She tried to get his name and he wouldn't let her and finally she was able to catch it from his badge, and he gave her a phone number which she's sure it's a fake one. (She wants to report him.) Anyways, finally after all the arguments he rebooked her on Royal Air Maroc with a layover in CMN. The flight that was supposed to be 10hrs on AZ with layover in FCO, ended up taking 24 hrs! Miserable...in addition to all the frustration and mess.

So, during all this mess, she called me trying to get something resolved via Alitalia or finding an alternate airline. So, intead of going through Alitalia's customer service, I called her job's travel agency directly through whom she booked her travel anyways. They researched it and apparently Alitalia did in fact CANCEL the flight and they never notified the travel agency, who would have contacted my friend to notify her.

I flew AZ only once in my life and for one leg only, and I've always heard the worst things about them. After this incident, I shall never fly them even if I have to go through several connections on other airlines to reach my final destination. They're completely out and they should be kicked out of SkyTeam. Compared to my experience with other SkyTeam (AF, KLM, NWA, DL, CO, KE), Alitalia completely defames SkyTeam.

Oh and by the way, my friend was booked in Business Class on AZ. When she was rebooked on Royal Air Maroc, she had to fly coach because of availability. So she didn't even get back the value of the ticket she paid on AZ. In addition, I'm not sure if she will get her miles on Delta. Royal Air Maroc is only a codeshare partner with DL; don't know if she can get MQMs from that trip.

Any advice anyone can provide or what we should ask from Alitalia would be greatly appreciated.

I really sympathize with your friend and her experience with Alitalia. It is unfortunate that the website was not updates and that the agent was rude. I hope that she gets the compensation that she deserves. I'll mark Alitalia on my "No-Fly" list for now.

i'm quite sure travel agency knew about that and just didn't report to its customer...but that's my thought....that comes from my experience....but anyways.....i'm sorry for her.

Sorry to say, but what you write about is not an infrequent AZ experience. Occasionally things function, but one always gets the feeling that it was by pure luck.....

you could try EUClaim to get the compensation if AZ does not pay out the compensation according to EU Directive

Not a nice experience especially since it seems like it could have been avoided if your friend had been informed on time.
Now, when a flight is cancelled, a message is normally automaticaly generated to the booking agency who, in turn, should inform their clients. More often than none, travel agents will claim that they were not informed when, in fact, they just forgot to let the passenger know.
Another point is that travel agencies are famously secretive with regards to their clients' details as they do not want airlines to collect private informations and, possibly, try and deal directly with the passenger. Unless the latter holds a frequent flyer card issued by the airline in question, there will be no way for the carrier to warn against disruptions to the flights.
I am not claiming that this is the case with your friend. Just contact AZ, let them investigate and explain what really has happened here.
It is also worth remembering that given that the flight was alledgedly cancelled 2 weeks prior to departure, it is likely that this cancellation was commercialy motivated in which case your friend might be entitled to financial compensation...

you could try EUClaim to get the compensation if AZ does not pay out the compensation according to EU Directive

However, when a flight is cancelled well in advance, you get nothing according to the rules.

Now, when a flight is cancelled, a message is normally automaticaly generated to the booking agency who, in turn, should inform their clients. More often than none, travel agents will claim that they were not informed when, in fact, they just forgot to let the passenger know.

that's exactly what i was talking about.... :cool:

However, when a flight is cancelled well in advance, you get nothing according to the rules.What matters is not the date of cancellation per se but the date at which the cancellation is notified to the pax.

What matters is not the date of cancellation per se but the date at which the cancellation is notified to the pax.

Which presumably leads on to how and in which manner this was communicated to the passenger.

Art 5.4 might provide some assistance

4. The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier.

This might lead on to the question of the position of the travel agent and the facts.

Is the travel agent- the agent for passenger, agent for the carrier or an independent contractor? Would this not be relevant in determine the manner and timing of the communication?

Depending upon the above the actions or omissions of a travel agent might also be relevant-and any contractual terms the agent might seek to incorporate within their contact (if any) with the passenger.

If the TA was informed by the carrier and didnt relay this information to the passenger (or otherwise was economical in passing contact details to the carrier-for whatever commercial purpose)-but nevertheless had a duty to pass on the flight cancellation information to the passenger-could the TA also be "in the frame"?

Presumably AZ has an evidential trail that would or would not satisfy the Art 5.4 burden of proof.

If they were able to satisfy that burden of proof I wonder if that would be the end of the matter in considering the passenger's grievance?

Wouldnt there also need to conveyed the other obligations burdened upon the operating carrier under Art 5 and Art 8 of EC 261/2004?

Wasnt the entire bad experience of the passenger in ACC incurred because that procedure had not been followed and shouldnt this have been avoidable?

Horrible situation... I actually warned my friend before she booked her flight and I told her not to use Alitalia but she did because it's SkyTeam and she wanted to get the miles for Delta.

That's two mistakes:
1) Earning Delta Miles
2) Using Alitalia

i'm quite sure travel agency knew about that and just didn't report to its customer...but that's my thought....that comes from my experience....but anyways.....i'm sorry for her.

Interesting thought but why would the flight still be listed as on time on their web site?

<Interesting thought but why would the flight still be listed as on time on their web site?


that's quite a good one...flight is resuming tomorrow..and web site hasn't been scheduling it in a week...i'm so sorry i deal with this problems every single day i know how things work... :)

Just my real :D experience.
In the last 2 years i got 3 flights canceled from AZ on a total of more 40 segments operated by AZ. Lucky? Maybe.
All the times I got a call from the call-center for a change (I have been always put in different flights...even operated by LX!).

The reason? Maybe because I booked through AZ website and in my profile they have 2 different phone numbers to contact me. Once they also left a message.
The only inconvenient was when they called me just 10 hours before...

Just my real :D experience.
In the last 2 years i got 3 flights canceled from AZ on a total of more 40 segments operated by AZ. Lucky? Maybe.
All the times I got a call from the call-center for a change (I have been always put in different flights...even operated by LX!).

The reason? Maybe because I booked through AZ website and in my profile they have 2 different phone numbers to contact me. Once they also left a message.
The only inconvenient was when they called me just 10 hours before...

That's a good record! Bad luck for me. Always delays/cancelations but fix in less than 8 hours.

Horrible situation... ... So, intead of going through Alitalia's customer service, I called her job's travel agency directly through whom she booked her travel anyways. They researched it and apparently Alitalia did in fact CANCEL the flight and they never notified the travel agency, who would have contacted my friend to notify her. ...

Sorry. I find that hard to believe...

When an airline cancels or reschedules a flight, a confirmed flight with HK in the booking becomes either UC or TK if it has been rescheduled. That action automatically generates a message to the reservation which goes into the travel agency's queuing system. AZ will not actually pick up the phone to call the agency. It is up to the TA's manager or automation system to check on airline discrepancies everyday. If the TA did not do that, then it is really the TA's fault and that it is the TA who should then contact AZ for alternatives.

Your friend may then check with the TA to check on the reservation record of her booking and check to see in the history of the booking when the cancellation came through and if it did generate a message to the agency.

Sorry that this info came late.. but here it is nonetheless.

...and i would add up that obviously if you ask the TA about that they will tell you that the company never reported the canx to them..deny till the end not to get the responsability that's the policy i suppose....

Sorry. I find that hard to believe...

When an airline cancels or reschedules a flight, a confirmed flight with HK in the booking becomes either UC or TK if it has been rescheduled. That action automatically generates a message to the reservation which goes into the travel agency's queuing system. AZ will not actually pick up the phone to call the agency. It is up to the TA's manager or automation system to check on airline discrepancies everyday. If the TA did not do that, then it is really the TA's fault and that it is the TA who should then contact AZ for alternatives.

Your friend may then check with the TA to check on the reservation record of her booking and check to see in the history of the booking when the cancellation came through and if it did generate a message to the agency.

Sorry that this info came late.. but here it is nonetheless.

There are obviously a lot of knowleable people regarding the world of TAs here and I wonder if someone could assist with a question regarding the role of the TA post cancellation.

Lets assume the carrier cancels the flight and tells the TA (and also perhaps that the carrier doesnt have contact details for the passenger).

What is the full responsibility of the TA due both to the carrier and to the passenger?

It is not so much the delivery of notice of the cancellation-although timing might be relevant in certain cases- (I'm assuming that this is simply relayed pursuant to the system you describe above hopefully in just about every case)- but the other obligations placed upon the carrier-to explain under Art 5-available re-routing options and also Art 8 to offer a choice between refund and re-routing-as well as Art 14 delivery of a notice of rights.

How are these obligations burdened upon the carrier placed before the passenger? Is the TA acting as the agent of the carrier in these circumstances? If the TA is acting as the agent of the passenger then, as agent of the passenger, should the TA be insisting, on behalf of the passenger, that the carrier comply with these obligations under EC 261/2004?

If there are any TAs here perhaps they might add more to understand how this works in practise (if it does work at all). Is this all dealt with in a standard contract the TA has with the carrier or the TA has with the passenger?

In this case, it is nearly 100% certain that it is the fault of the travel agent. Changes would certainly come through to them and show up on their queue. All changes would get communicated through the travel agent who never bothered to update the passenger. When booking an intrenational flight through a travel agency, it is best to call the airline directly to ensure that they have the ticket number in the record, your seat preference is correct, etc.. Sometimes computer systems do not communicate properly and information is lost so you are always advised to check by calling the airline to confirm everything is as scheduled.

Alitalia SUCKS!
how is it possible that you just find that out!
[/QUOTE]

how is it possible that you just find that out!


I thought everyone knew that! Worst european airline.
Sorry about your friend but at least she got lucky she didn't actually have to fly in one of their planes!!!!

OK I thought FTers were the smartest people on planet I guess not so in the Alitalia forum (disintelligence by association :D).

The Op says:

She checked her flight the night before ONLINE, the flight was on-time (no changes).

So how come she was allowed to check in the night before..if the flight had been cancelled and it is the TAs resposnibility, and blah, blah why is the flight available for online check-in and showing ON-TIME????????????????

FYI I have never flown Alitalia, reading these hair raising experiences I never will even if offered a business class ticket free...I just curiously get drawn this Italian airline flashing warning posts because of some horrible experiences on a once-in-lifetime (and never again!) trip to Italy.

OK I thought FTers were the smartest people on planet I guess not so in the Alitalia forum (disintelligence by association :D).

The Op says:

She checked her flight the night before ONLINE, the flight was on-time (no changes).

So how come she was allowed to check in the night before..if the flight had been cancelled and it is the TAs resposnibility, and blah, blah why is the flight available for online check-in and showing ON-TIME????????????????

Sorry to say, but you really don't look smart

The OP didn't say that she "checked in" for her flight the night before, all it said was, that she "checked" the flight, meaning she checked online the flight's scheduled departure time to make sure it hasn't been cancelled or delayed, and no mention at all about checking in.

I thought everyone knew that! Worst european airline.
Sorry about your friend but at least she got lucky she didn't actually have to fly in one of their planes!!!!Sigh...
Maybe it is just me, but I am starting to find this rather tiresome. Don't get me wrong. AZ is by no means my favourite airline and there certainly are issues with several aspects of their service.
However, the sniping by individuals whose connection with AZ does not appear to go much beyond the "A friend of a friend was once within a ten miles radius from an airport in which Alitalia flies and she said Alitalia was horrible" does not seem to me to be terribly enlightening.

I have had problems with AZ but it is nowhere near what some people here suggest. I have had a few irrops with AZ and while the communication side was far from impressive (but, TBH, I have had that with other airlines too, especially within Europe), the actual rerouting was much more straightforward than what I have encountered on many others.

I thought everyone knew that! Worst european airline.
Sorry about your friend but at least she got lucky she didn't actually have to fly in one of their planes!!!!

A pill of wisdom from the standard north-american flyer who likely doesn't know where's Rome ? :D


ps:my respect to the remaining north-american flyers who speak about what they experience REALLY.

Sigh...
Maybe it is just me, but I am starting to find this rather tiresome. Don't get me wrong. AZ is by no means my favourite airline and there certainly are issues with several aspects of their service.
However, the sniping by individuals whose connection with AZ does not appear to go much beyond the "A friend of a friend was once within a ten miles radius from an airport in which Alitalia flies and she said Alitalia was horrible" does not seem to me to be terribly enlightening.

I have had problems with AZ but it is nowhere near what some people here suggest. I have had a few irrops with AZ and while the communication side was far from impressive (but, TBH, I have had that with other airlines too, especially within Europe), the actual rerouting was much more straightforward than what I have encountered on many others.

I would agree with this assessment. Although I had one overnight forced stay in MXP that could have been better managed by AZ and it is true the strikes during the last months of the "old" AZ have been frequent, I have personally had no more major problems with them than with other European carriers.

I have to agree, Alitalia sucks. I flew monday to Torino out of Rome and back yesterday evening. On monday the flight was delayed: no crew. They were in Verona where their plane was grounded. No replacement crew as our aircraft was a B737 and the majority of AZ/AP crew flies A320 or MD80. no assistance whatsoever. They finally gave snacks voucher after the passengers got angry enough to start shouting. The crew finally arrived from Verona and they apologized for the excessive (sic) delay.


Yesterday, tuesday, in Torino the flight to Rome was delayed 10 mn, then 1 hour. No one at the gate. An announcement called all passengers to go back to the check in desks. There we learnt the flight would be cancelled and we would need to queue to get a new bpass to the next flight 1 hour later. With 80% of the passengers (with babies and infants) having a connexion in Rome I let you all imagine the chaos at the 2 check in counters open with honestly incompetent handling staff when the agent told "no connexion is guaranteed" . By the way, the police was there too, just in case! I had to fight to get my new bpass from the check-in manager who first told me she was not competent to issue bpasses. How strange after insisting she magically issued mine...:rolleyes:

Finally i arrived in Rome 1 hour late which is quiet a miracle after what happened in Torino. The aircraft was in a poor condition, broken armrests and indications on the seat and exit signs written in chinese and korean...:eek:

it seems that the situation of Alitalia in Torino is bad enough for a Torino tribunal to opened an inquiry for non respect of the passengers right. Actually, some flight to and from rome recently had between 6 to 17 hours delay. And torino airport has a very bad on time record with alitalia.

Another strange thing, the only on time flights were under Ap (air one) code and teh ones delayed or cancelled were on AZ code with AP metal...:confused:

Lesson learnt, next time I'm going to Torino I'll fly Blue Express: low cost airline, always on time!;)

A pill of wisdom from the standard north-american flyer who likely doesn't know where's Rome ? :D

ps:my respect to the remaining north-american flyers who speak about what they experience REALLY.

A pill of arrogance from the standard european who thinks he is so much more knowledgeable/better than everyone else, especially north americans.

P.S. I am european and have flown AZ many times.

A pill of arrogance from the standard european who thinks he is so much more knowledgeable/better than everyone else, especially north americans.

P.S. I am european and have flown AZ many times.


I think you simply added a comment without any direct and recent experience...like those who flew AZ (maybe) once in the life and seem to have already understood everything...and they believe that sharing their stereotypes can be even useful.
Maybe you don't know that the actual AZ is not exactly the same of what we had until December 2008?

But you know what's strange? Your comment is the first in this thread in more than a year (and it seems you flew a lot of times AZ:rolleyes:), you are an happy supporter of UA (God save you and that airline!) and *A...and always posted about your experience in UA or *A carriers.
So now, you come saying "AZ is the worst European airline" and you pretend to be credible?
Come'n, stop telling stories....and fly less *A!

Take it as a suggestion for your flights back to France:) from a person that now holds 2 A* Gold cards:D

Agree with Squerez and NickB - Alitalia have let me down on occasions and when travelling long haul will do my best to avoid them BUT on short haul flights (eg LIN -LHR) I really can't complain
Normally efficient crew - on time departures, comfortable seats in Y especially on the A321 and a perfectly acceptable snack service
Defining AZ as "worst european airline"?!?! Mmmm - I'm going to be diplomatic and say "don't think so..":D