Travel Technology - New iPhone 3G S vs. Palm Pre vs. HTC Touch Pro 2

Hi all,
Is there a consensus yet as to which of these three new phones offers the best bang for the buck, the best features and the potential for the best apps catalog?
The new iPhone 3G S vs. Palm Pre vs. HTC Touch Pro 2

I think the wealth and momentum of Apple's applications makes it the winner. And they seem intent on improving the phone through updates and upgrades. Also Apple and ATT seem intent on agressively pricing, except for those of us stuck in 3G contracts.

Im sorry but this comparison is not complete unless you also put the Nokia N97 into the lineup.... :D

Also Apple and ATT seem intent on agressively pricing, except for those of us stuck in 3G contracts.
Billshrink.com has a very recent comparison that will make you question that statement.

http://www.billshrink.com/blog/iphone-versus-palm-pre-versus-android/

The Touch Pro 2 is probably the best Windows phone ever made - it is THAT good.

And Windows haters will be happy to know that HTC has covered up almost every part of Windows, and replaced it with their amazing Touchflo 3D interface.

That said; unless you really need a keyboard, I'd check out the HTC Touch Diamond 2 as well - that is the one I'm using, and it is simply amazing. The only part of the phone that I use that is still "old Windows" is the email client, the rest has been replaced by TouchFlo.

Billshrink.com has a very recent comparison that will make you question that statement.

http://www.billshrink.com/blog/iphone-versus-palm-pre-versus-android/

It doesn't make me question it at all. One the Android and the Pre have matured as much as the iPhone and have a developer network as deep, then let's talk again.

I'm looking at my new 32 GB 3GS right now (actually, I'm restoring from my 3G right now). The only issue I have right now is the lack of a tethering plan for it and the prospect that AT&T will get *this* part of the equation wrong. $55/5GB (rumored price) for phone tethering is outrageous and makes me wonder if a 3G card is more useful (I don't have to worry about battery drain, etc.). OK, the $20 for unlimited messaging (text, MMS) is also annoying, but since I probably send 10 texts a month, I'm on a $5 plan anyway.

Look at the comparison table again. 8GB Pre, 1 GB Android. Miniscule app catalogs.

And as far as I can tell, the plan choices were picked intentionally to put the iPhone in the worst possible light. If you're like me and do not use text messages, knock $20 off the price of the monthly plan (or knock $15 off like I do). And who gets an unlimited voice plan? I don't. Most other people don't, either. Not with AT&T having rollover minutes, unless your phone is glued to the ear, it's not needed.

I would much rather see a comparison with some of the Windows phones that can actually compete in the real world, not on some mocked up chart.

It doesn't make me question it at all. One the Android and the Pre have matured as much as the iPhone and have a developer network as deep, then let's talk again.

I'm looking at my new 32 GB 3GS right now (actually, I'm restoring from my 3G right now). The only issue I have right now is the lack of a tethering plan for it and the prospect that AT&T will get *this* part of the equation wrong. $55/5GB (rumored price) for phone tethering is outrageous and makes me wonder if a 3G card is more useful (I don't have to worry about battery drain, etc.). OK, the $20 for unlimited messaging (text, MMS) is also annoying, but since I probably send 10 texts a month, I'm on a $5 plan anyway.

Look at the comparison table again. 8GB Pre, 1 GB Android. Miniscule app catalogs.

And as far as I can tell, the plan choices were picked intentionally to put the iPhone in the worst possible light. If you're like me and do not use text messages, knock $20 off the price of the monthly plan (or knock $15 off like I do). And who gets an unlimited voice plan? I don't. Most other people don't, either. Not with AT&T having rollover minutes, unless your phone is glued to the ear, it's not needed.

I would much rather see a comparison with some of the Windows phones that can actually compete in the real world, not on some mocked up chart.

The Android app catalog is actually pretty decent nowadays, and not filled with crap like beer drinking and fart apps.

Nowhere near as many games as on the iPhone, and I do agree that the dev network on the iPhone is much larger. But there are probably close to 4000 apps on Android.

Also, the 1GB in the Android doesn't mean anything when you can easily pop a 16GB MicroSD card in it.

The G1's biggest drawback is the limited coverage of 3G on T-Mobile.

The Android app catalog is actually pretty decent nowadays, and not filled with crap like beer drinking and fart apps.

Nowhere near as many games as on the iPhone, and I do agree that the dev network on the iPhone is much larger. But there are probably close to 4000 apps on Android.

Also, the 1GB in the Android doesn't mean anything when you can easily pop a 16GB MicroSD card in it.

The G1's biggest drawback is the limited coverage of 3G on T-Mobile.

Well, to be fair, AT&T doesn't have over-reaching 3G coverage, either. Sitting in my house 20 minutes from MSN, I am in "EDGE-land."

New iPhone 3G S vs. Palm Pre vs. HTC Touch Pro 2

OK, add the Nokia and Android phones but it seems to be a useless exercise. Different operating systems, difference hardware, different carriers/network and an apples vs oranges comparison :p

Look at the comparison table again. 8GB Pre, 1 GB Android. Miniscule app catalogs.

And as far as I can tell, the plan choices were picked intentionally to put the iPhone in the worst possible light. If you're like me and do not use text messages, knock $20 off the price of the monthly plan (or knock $15 off like I do). And who gets an unlimited voice plan? I don't. Most other people don't, either. Not with AT&T having rollover minutes, unless your phone is glued to the ear, it's not needed.

I would much rather see a comparison with some of the Windows phones that can actually compete in the real world, not on some mocked up chart.

It sounds like you have the device and plan that suites you. Note that table has two comparisons, one for unlimited minutes and one for 900 minutes.

The 900 minutes comparison is where it gets interesting, and the costs are closer. AT&T is still more expensive by ~ $500 to the next closest. And, the details matter more in this comparison. AT&T has roll over minutes, whereas Sprint does not. To compete with that, on Sprint nights start at 7 PM vs. 9 PM for AT&T.

T-Mobile total ownership bests both these, but I don't pay attention to their calling plans, so not in a position to compare.

It sounds like you have the device and plan that suites you. Note that table has two comparisons, one for unlimited minutes and one for 900 minutes.

The 900 minutes comparison is where it gets interesting, and the costs are closer. AT&T is still more expensive by ~ $500 to the next closest. And, the details matter more in this comparison. AT&T has roll over minutes, whereas Sprint does not. To compete with that, on Sprint nights start at 7 PM vs. 9 PM for AT&T.

T-Mobile total ownership bests both these, but I don't pay attention to their calling plans, so not in a position to compare.

I actually have a 1400 minute plan for $80 (+$19.90 for 2 family lines). I was going to knock this down even further, but was told I'd lose all my rollover minutes. And since the $80 is paid for by my company (I pay the $19.90 and my wife's iPhone data plan, essentially) I haven't felt a strong urge to change the plan and lose the rollovers I *might* need someday.

I actually have a 1400 minute plan for $80 (+$19.90 for 2 family lines). I was going to knock this down even further, but was told I'd lose all my rollover minutes. And since the $80 is paid for by my company (I pay the $19.90 and my wife's iPhone data plan, essentially) I haven't felt a strong urge to change the plan and lose the rollovers I *might* need someday.

yeah, I have the same problem. 1400 min is too much, their next level down is 700 min, which is too little without all those rollovers I've accumulated.

The Touch Pro 2 is probably the best Windows phone ever made - it is THAT good.

And Windows haters will be happy to know that HTC has covered up almost every part of Windows, and replaced it with their amazing Touchflo 3D interface.

That said; unless you really need a keyboard, I'd check out the HTC Touch Diamond 2 as well - that is the one I'm using, and it is simply amazing. The only part of the phone that I use that is still "old Windows" is the email client, the rest has been replaced by TouchFlo.


Scott, so are you recommending the Touch Pro 2 over the iPhone 3G S & Pre?

Also would you be kind enough to explain what exactly the Touchflo 3D interface can do that improves the performance of this phone so much?

The Android app catalog is actually pretty decent nowadays, and not filled with crap like beer drinking and fart apps.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

I would say that there are three competitors in the smart phone arena; RIM, Apple and Win Mobile. Each has their advantages and disadvantages and the others are largely irrelevant and non-competitive at this point.

I would say that there are three competitors in the smart phone arena; RIM, Apple and Win Mobile. Each has their advantages and disadvantages and the others are largely irrelevant and non-competitive at this point.

IMHO the iPhone is almost a "must have" status phone for teenagers & people in their 20's. The BB are appreciated by those of us that receive a great deal of work related email. The Windows Mobile models have always had some drawbacks but also have their fans.

I have the HTC Touch and although I enjoy some of the applications on the phone it is still not user friendly for typing with the tiny touch keyboard it offers. I have tried several third party keyboards and am currently using the Resco keyboard which is still limiting with my big thumbs. :)

IMHO the iPhone is almost a "must have" status phone for teenagers & people in their 20's. The BB are appreciated by those of us that receive a great deal of work related email. The Windows Mobile models have always had some drawbacks but also have their fans.

I have the HTC Touch and although I enjoy some of the applications on the phone it is still not user friendly for typing with the tiny touch keyboard it offers. I have tried several third party keyboards and am currently using the Resco keyboard which is still limiting with my big thumbs. :)

I am in my mid 50s and get way over a hundred work related emails a day. My primary work phone, with an Exchange server at work, is an iPhone. Although the BB is also great.

Scott, so are you recommending the Touch Pro 2 over the iPhone 3G S & Pre?

Also would you be kind enough to explain what exactly the Touchflo 3D interface can do that improves the performance of this phone so much?

Personally I prefer the Touch Diamond 2 over the iPhone - but that really is just a personal thing. I love the iPhone, but it just doesn't do anything for me.

I love TouchFlo3D because it actually hides all the parts of Windows I hate so much :D

Things like the WiFi setup screen and the program manager have been replaced by TouchFlo. Also, the browser on HTC WinMo devices (Opera) performs very well, and finally means you can ditch Pocket IE.

The entire device is much more touch friendly, things like email, web and all settings screens are much more touch enabled than in previous versions.

Personally I prefer the Touch Diamond 2 over the iPhone - but that really is just a personal thing. I love the iPhone, but it just doesn't do anything for me.

I love TouchFlo3D because it actually hides all the parts of Windows I hate so much :D

Things like the WiFi setup screen and the program manager have been replaced by TouchFlo. Also, the browser on HTC WinMo devices (Opera) performs very well, and finally means you can ditch Pocket IE.

The entire device is much more touch friendly, things like email, web and all settings screens are much more touch enabled than in previous versions.

Scott, currently I am stuck in "Verizon Land" :mad: and they have a history of limiting the capabilities of their phones where Sprint does not. If I recall correctly you are a Sprint customer. Does what you have said about the Touch Pro 2 hold true to the Verizon version also?

Scott, currently I am stuck in "Verizon Land" :mad: and they have a history of limiting the capabilities of their phones where Sprint does not. If I recall correctly you are a Sprint customer. Does what you have said about the Touch Pro 2 hold true to the Verizon version also?

My Touch Diamond2 is on T-Mobile. I have a Sprint Touch Pro, but have it running a third party rom, which makes it MUCH better. I recommend you do the same - it's a 25 minute thing, but once you are done, your phone will run much smoother.

The rumored Touch Diamond2 on Sprint/VZW should/might come as dual mode 3G/CDMA.

I am in my mid 50s and get way over a hundred work related emails a day. My primary work phone, with an Exchange server at work, is an iPhone. Although the BB is also great.
How many do you send? The iPhone - to me - is fine for reading but not so much for writing. I type way faster with a regular keyboard than the touchscreen. I've tried the Touch, too, and have the same problem.

I have to send emails almost as much as I receive them and that was a deal-breaker for me.

How many do you send? The iPhone - to me - is fine for reading but not so much for writing. I type way faster with a regular keyboard than the touchscreen. I've tried the Touch, too, and have the same problem.

I have to send emails almost as much as I receive them and that was a deal-breaker for me.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I should add that my work phone is an iPhone but I have a BB curve as a personal phone that I get both personal and work email on. Im getting better at sending emails from the iPhone but youre right, you have to love the BB for that. Many of my emails I just sort in any case to either have my assistant deal with or for me to deal with later.

I'll have my Pre up and running on Friday hopefully. Ordered three of them yesterday - they're already on their way to me. So far, I'm impressed at how aggressively Sprint has moved to keep me from defecting to another carrier.

I posted this on the other iPhone thread: I'm two weeks from the end of my Sprint contract and was considering getting iPhones. Sprint initially offered a bunch of bill credit - but wanted me to play the mail-in rebate game on devices. I eventually settled on smaller retention bonuses in exchange for free devices with no rebate hassles.

My corp rep semi-confessed that they have quite a bit of leeway to re-up longtime customers, especially now with the new iPhone out there. I think my expiration date timing worked in my favor.

Anyway, I know I'm not going to get the same experience that an iPhone user gets with the huge app library, but our needs aren't that great and this keeps our monthly bill pretty low ($141 for 1400 shared minutes + unlimited data/messaging) with no out-of-pocket cost.

My Touch Diamond2 is on T-Mobile. I have a Sprint Touch Pro, but have it running a third party rom, which makes it MUCH better. I recommend you do the same - it's a 25 minute thing, but once you are done, your phone will run much smoother.

The rumored Touch Diamond2 on Sprint/VZW should/might come as dual mode 3G/CDMA.

I knew I remembered Sprint mentioned by you in the past. :)

As for a 3rd party ROM, at this point I am fed up with the Touch because of the keyboard and don't really want to invest any further time in improving it. :mad:
The last thing on the Touch I did was to install the Valhalla GPS hack which works great on both Google Maps and Windows Live Search. ^

BTW, I find it interesting that so many people are hung up on the apps that are available for the iPhone. I have found countless programs for Windows Mobile that one will find just as useful. @:-)

BTW, I find it interesting that so many people are hung up on the apps that are available for the iPhone. I have found countless programs for Windows Mobile that one will find just as useful. @:-)

Having had Windows Mobile devices back to the original Windows CE I have to disagree. I have found many more useful iPhone apps in a few months than in the years I had WM devices, although there are clearly some useful WM apps.

I love TouchFlo3D because it actually hides all the parts of Windows I hate so much :D

I just saw some screenshots and everything looks monochrome.

I just saw some screenshots and everything looks monochrome.

There is a lot of black and white in the theme, but it's not all monochrome. In fact, the colors make it very easy to use. That said; you can add a photo as the background, and there are tons of tweaks to color it up.

I would say that there are three competitors in the smart phone arena; RIM, Apple and Win Mobile. Each has their advantages and disadvantages and the others are largely irrelevant and non-competitive at this point.

I have to disagree.

I've been responsible for developing and delivering mobile systems for a long time.

I did the world's first large scale roll-out of mobile technology into government in 1988 with over 3000 Psion Organisers doing complex advice and assessment tasks for the UK government. So you'd expect me to be biased towards Symbian.

Well, yes and no.

We don't supply systems on Symbian phones any more, we use Windows Mobile as a platform for one simple reason.

Some of our users do not want, or won''t allow, cameras or online connections into their systems or offices. So we use PDAs.

Apple are not perfect, I still have a Newton in the drawer of my desk, a big disappointment in its day.

So you may expect me to use WM for my own purposes and I do, sometimes.

I'm sat in the HIX in Reims at the moment and I have, next to the laptop:

A Tytn II WM phone
A Dell Axim 51V WM PDA
A Nokia E71
An iPhone 3GS

The WM stuff is there because I need to have the capability to demo our apps but also because a couple of other applications like Pocket Informant make my life easier.

The E71 is a terrific phone and the capability to download Nokia Maps and run Metro makes it a terrific travel tool.

The iPhone arrived last week because I used to have an iPod Touch but really wanted to make better use of the location based services, which are a fantastic example of the increased value provided by simple linking.

As a tool the iPhone is really limited though. No multi-tasking! I've been used to switching between tasks on Psion / Symbian for decades and to be able to run things in the background. No zoom on the camera. No file system. No easy import / export. It's great fun and good for multi-media but I couldn't run my life on it.

The WM things are much more focussed on a corporate workstyle but it's always been clunky as an OS and you really have to learn how to use it and even then get ready to reset too frequently.

The E71 has too small a screen to be a MM device but the elegance of the OS and its stability make it the only one which is genuinely industrial strength.

I'd move us back to it in a flash if it could provide us with appropriate devices and if I had to choose one machine to take with me, it would be that. But I would miss the fun of the iPhone. I couldn't say that about the WM machines.

I dumped my BB last year in favour of the E71 as an email tool and I have yet to play with a Googlephone so I can't comment on that.

I have to disagree.

I've been responsible for developing and delivering mobile systems for a long time.

I did the world's first large scale roll-out of mobile technology into government in 1988 with over 3000 Psion Organisers doing complex advice and assessment tasks for the UK government. So you'd expect me to be biased towards Symbian.

Bring back the LZ64 :D

I've still got one here, and despite not being in use since 1992, I can pop the data cartridge in it, pop a 9V into the bottom of the LZ64 and do a restore of my PIM data from 1988-1992. Try that with Windows or the iPhone :D

Bring back the LZ64 :D

Only wimps needed 4 lines of display!

(I actually still use an Organiser XP as a calculator at home)

How is the Palm for syncing calendar and contacts to a MAC? If course iphone is the best but my wife doesn't like the touch screen keyboard. She is using a BB right now but syncing is spotty.

Looks like Palm Pre is a non-starter for me right now as they don't support Exchange security policy. The problem I have with iPhone and BB is both of their build-in GPS unit is tie to a data plan. I really don't need GPS when I am here in the US, but I do want it when I am in Europe (Garmin for WM) and Asia (Mapking). I went ahead bought a refurb Fuze from AT&T for free last night with voice+data only $50/mo.

Early thoughts on the Palm Pre:

(1) Feel / aesthetics are wonderful. Very elegant, easy to use phone.

(2) Multitasks very well.

(3) Small app catalog - apparently the full SDK for the new Palm Web OS hasn't been released to the world. A few of the apps that are there are quite nice, but there's not much (any?) third-party activity going on yet. For example, no PDAnet yet - although June says they'll develop a Pre app as soon as they get access to the full SDK. As far as I know, there is no workaround or emulator out there that will make PDAnet work with a Pre.

(4) Seems to have enough processing power to handle what I'm asking of it so far: totally unlike the Moto Q which would slow down to the point where I can hardly answer a phone call if I was running another app.

(5) Audio when using the included earbuds is far superior to what I had with the Moto Q. Streaming Pandora with the Pre during a workout is like a dream come true...I actually enjoy doing that more than carrying my own music with me.

It's a very good product...especially given that Sprint is at least somewhat willing to drop their price or otherwise intice existing customers to upgrade. But the two important steps - the full SDK available to third parties and a critical mass of Pre users out there to make app development worthwhile - have yet to happen.

The problem I have with iPhone and BB is both of their build-in GPS unit is tie to a data plan. I really don't need GPS when I am here in the US, but I do want it when I am in Europe (Garmin for WM) and Asia (Mapking). I went ahead bought a refurb Fuze from AT&T for free last night with voice+data only $50/mo.

the gps in the iphone is not tied to any data plan. some apps, such as the included maps app, download map data off the air, but other apps have it all self contained.

Does the Touch Pro 2 have built-in GPS? If so I would imagine that you could use the same hack I have on my Touch which gives me FREE Google Maps and Windows Live Search and not have to pay for a GPS fee from the carrier.

Does the Touch Pro 2 have built-in GPS? If so I would imagine that you could use the same hack I have on my Touch which gives me FREE Google Maps and Windows Live Search and not have to pay for a GPS fee from the carrier.

Yes it does - and Verizon is currently offering all its Windows Mobile devices with unlocked GPS. They recently unlocked it using a firmware update for their version of the Touch Pro.

One slight Palm Pre annoyance: when the battery dies, you must charge the phone for about a half hour before you can reboot it.

With my old Moto Q, I could have a totally dead battery, plug it into its charger, and immediately turn the phone on as long as I stayed tethered to the juice.

With the Pre, you can't do that. You're offline for a while - period.

The Pre does show exact battery percentage remaining - I like that a lot - but the thing shut itself down completely when it was on 4% this morning. (I'm used to most laptops, which can go to 0% and you still have 1-2 minutes to find a plug-in.)

Therefore, when your Pre gets below 10% and you get the "I'm going to shut down soon" warning, take it seriously and find a USB port somewhere. :)

OK, the tethering hack for the Palm Pre has now been posted online.

I have never hacked a mobile phone, but I feel naked without tetherability. It involves giving yourself root access to the Linux OS and then utilizing the Bluetooth ability of the phone to tether to the laptop. (In other words, the way I'm reading this it's not even a physical cable tether through the USB port.)

Still debating whether to do it. I don't want to do something that otherwise affects the regular function of the phone...

Honestly between the three, I'd choose on form factor first before software/apps - I couldn't deal with a keyboardless one; even iPhone, which has the best on-screen keyboard I've tried, annoyed the heck out of me - and I prefer the landscape HTC form factor enough over the old Treo I had that I probably would probably not consider the Pre.

I've got a Touch Pro (not 2; Sprint/CDMA, being on a grandfathered $15/mo including tethering unlimited data plan, so changing carriers is not appealing as long as I can get Sprint to keep selling me new phones while renewing the same plan) and suspect I'd still get the Touch Pro 2 today (what's not to like - same phone, bigger screen, faster processor.)

The OP didn't mention the G1, but it's the one newer phone (probably in the unlocked-but-slightly-pricier Android Dev Phone version) I'd've been seriously tempted by before the Touch Pro 2 came out. Same form factor, bigger screen (than the Touch Pro) but lower resolution and I think a slower processor.

And Windows haters will be happy to know that HTC has covered up almost every part of Windows, and replaced it with their amazing Touchflo 3D interface.

And for those of us who LIKE Windows Mobile, we can disable TouchFlo very easily. I disliked TouchFlo enough to turn it off in the first half hour.

Look at the comparison table again. 8GB Pre, 1 GB Android. Miniscule app catalogs.

The SD card slot is a huge plus - SD cards are very cheap (8gb for under $20) and the capacity keeps going up and prices down.

And for those of us who LIKE Windows Mobile, we can disable TouchFlo very easily. I disliked TouchFlo enough to turn it off in the first half hour.


I am curious as to why you dislike TouchFlo so much when someone like Scott who is a tech guru prefers it? :confused:

I'm posting this here in lieu of starting another thread since there seem to be some Touch Pro/Touch Pro 2 afficionados about. I currently have a Touch Pro (unlocked GSM, purchased in Singapore) and a number of desk and car charging/syncing cradles. Any chance cradles designed for the original Touch Pro will fit the Touch Pro 2? I haven't been able to actually put my hands on a TP2 yet...

I'm posting this here in lieu of starting another thread since there seem to be some Touch Pro/Touch Pro 2 afficionados about. I currently have a Touch Pro (unlocked GSM, purchased in Singapore) and a number of desk and car charging/syncing cradles. Any chance cradles designed for the original Touch Pro will fit the Touch Pro 2? I haven't been able to actually put my hands on a TP2 yet...

Doubt it will fit. The bottom connector may be in the same general area, but the size of the unit is just too different.

http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=7363

So the Verizon HTC Ozone will have wifi and is a CDMA/GSM phone. So what advantages would there be in getting a BB Tour without wifi?
How important is wifi capability in a phone?

How can this thread be complete without the soon to be released Blackberry?

Early thoughts on the Palm Pre:

It's a very good product...especially given that Sprint is at least somewhat willing to drop their price or otherwise intice existing customers to upgrade. But the two important steps - the full SDK available to third parties and a critical mass of Pre users out there to make app development worthwhile - have yet to happen.

Can I load my iTunes on it?

Unfortunately I am tied to both Sprint (for service) and Apple (for music and computing). I would like to get a smartphone from sprint but it is fairly useless to me without being able to sync all the Apple programs, particularly music. It was a pain to import everything from my old Palm, and I would like to avoid going through another conversion unless absolutely necessary.

It really is too bad that Apple sold an exclusive to AT&T.

Unfortunately, I'm the wrong guy to ask for Apple advice: I have never used iTunes.

That said, I just googled "Palm Pre iTunes" and there's a ton of information out there about it. Short answer: yes, Palm will synch with your DRM-free media in iTunes.

A Wired (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/05/snap-palm-pre-will-sync-seamlessly-with-itunes) article about it from late May... Caution: the article hints that a little software update cat-and-mouse game could be forthcoming. :)

I am curious as to why you dislike TouchFlo so much when someone like Scott who is a tech guru prefers it? :confused:

I'm a programmer and the local hardware guy in our sw engineering group, so *shrug* at tech guru arguments one way or the other.

As for Touchflo, I found it unintuitive, not very visually attractive, and easy to accidentally set off "features" I did't want and in some cases which I was worried would trigger Sprint billing. Given that I'd been (fairly happily) using plain old Windows CE/WinMo for about 8 years, just didn't seem worth the learning curve.

I'm a programmer and the local hardware guy in our sw engineering group, so *shrug* at tech guru arguments one way or the other.

As for Touchflo, I found it unintuitive, not very visually attractive, and easy to accidentally set off "features" I did't want and in some cases which I was worried would trigger Sprint billing. Given that I'd been (fairly happily) using plain old Windows CE/WinMo for about 8 years, just didn't seem worth the learning curve.

What version were you using? The first TouchFlo was a turd, but HTC got it right in the following versions. The current one is just a pleasure to use.

What version were you using? The first TouchFlo was a turd, but HTC got it right in the following versions. The current one is just a pleasure to use.

Sprint's on the Touch Pro, with the original OOTB ROM as of late last Summer (if there's been an official one released for Sprint, I've missed it, and a didn't see any worthwhile cooked ROMs last time I looked which was probably Dec.)

Sprint's on the Touch Pro, with the original OOTB ROM as of late last Summer (if there's been an official one released for Sprint, I've missed it, and a didn't see any worthwhile cooked ROMs last time I looked which was probably Dec.)

KK Loaded is (IMHO) the best rom for the TP at the moment.

The stock Sprint TP rom was indeed a POS.

KK Loaded is (IMHO) the best rom for the TP at the moment.

The stock Sprint TP rom was indeed a POS.

Specifically the TouchFlo, or in general? With TouchFlo disabled, the basic ROM addressed pretty much everything I disliked about the OOTB 6700 I'd had previously (and had reflashed.)

Found the KK Loaded threads on PPCGeeks, and will have a look.

The more I am reading online about the Touch Pro 2 I am leaning toward it as it seems it will be one hell of a WM PDA device.

I am presently engaged in a negotiation with Verizon where they are offering me choices of replacement phones do to ongoing tech issues with my Touch where they have replaced the Pro three times in about a year. This week I started having a new tech issue and they have just offered me another replacement Pro which I am refusing to take it. Their rep is now asking me what other phone in their lineup I would like to switch to and I do not see anything about the TP2 on their site yet. Back in the end of May there were numerous websites that featured stories about new mobile phones showing pictures of the TP2 with a Verizon logo on it and saying it would be released in the very near future. Some even hinted at a July release date.

So the $64,000 question of the day is whether anyone knows the actual release date on Verizon for the Touch Pro 2????? :confused:

I think T-Mobile will get it first (first half of August), then either Sprint or VZW will be next, if I had to guess, I'd say it will be Sprint. So - I'm going to gamble that the TP2 won't be on Verizon till mid-September.

I think T-Mobile will get it first (first half of August), then either Sprint or VZW will be next, if I had to guess, I'd say it will be Sprint. So - I'm going to gamble that the TP2 won't be on Verizon till mid-September.

So that means that I have to figure out a way to get Verizon to wait on giving me a replacement for my Touch. Obviously I can't justify delaying this quality claim with their rep and using the Touch for two more months until the release of the TP2 when I am telling them I have repeated software issues that always require hard resets to correct and the phone is not usable.

Any suggestions as to the course of action that I should take so they will agree to send me a TP2 replacement phone when it is released instead of one of the current models that they currently offer in their product lineup that we both know will be inferior to the TP2?

So that means that I have to figure out a way to get Verizon to wait on giving me a replacement for my Touch. Obviously I can't justify delaying this quality claim with their rep and using the Touch for two more months until the release of the TP2 when I am telling them I have repeated software issues that always require hard resets to correct and the phone is not usable.

Any suggestions as to the course of action that I should take so they will agree to send me a TP2 replacement phone when it is released instead of one of the current models that they currently offer in their product lineup that we both know will be inferior to the TP2?

This forum post seems to bet more on Oct/Nov for Verizon:

http://forums.verizon.com/vrzn/board/message?board.id=Smartphone&message.id=869

It should be noted that the HTC Touch Pro 2 will be released by T Mobile on Aug. 12, Sprint sometime in mid Sept. (rumored) and Telus already has it listed on their website for sale.
http://www.telusmobility.com/en/BC/htc_touchpro2_t7379/index.shtml

At this time it will be using the WM 6.1 operating system. However PPCGeeks and Howard Forums have had many discussions about a possible upgrade to WM 6.5 coming down the pipeline in the near future.

There is no word from Verizon yet for a TP 2 release date.

Also supposedly the Sprint & Verizon phones will be GSM/CDMA models. Seeing is believing!

Honestly between the three, I'd choose on form factor first before software/apps - I couldn't deal with a keyboardless one; even iPhone, which has the best on-screen keyboard I've tried, annoyed the heck out of me - and I prefer the landscape HTC form factor enough over the old Treo I had that I probably would probably not consider the Pre.
...snip...
And for those of us who LIKE Windows Mobile, we can disable TouchFlo very easily. I disliked TouchFlo enough to turn it off in the first half hour.

The SD card slot is a huge plus - SD cards are very cheap (8gb for under $20) and the capacity keeps going up and prices down.

+1 for most these points.

I went with a Windows Mobile phone from Sony (X1), and considered an Iphone, but
* I send too many emails to be able to use the Iphone (and I tried it for several days). Besides the fact that I was significantly slower at using the on-screen keyboard, the word prediction stuff is worse than useless for work-related emails that have lots of technology jargon.
* I wanted a high-resolution screen (mine is 800x480).
* I didn't know it then, but I really like the multitasking capability. Switching between email and Mobile Word or Powerpoint is important when I have to review somebody's document or presentation and write them an email response. Toss in the occasional web lookup, and a lack of multitasking would just kill me.
* I tried TouchFlo3D on my phone (custom ROM), but now just use SPB Mobile Shell 3. Doesn't look anything like Windows, except for the email client.

+1 for most these points.

I went with a Windows Mobile phone from Sony (X1), and considered an Iphone, but
* I send too many emails to be able to use the Iphone (and I tried it for several days). Besides the fact that I was significantly slower at using the on-screen keyboard, the word prediction stuff is worse than useless for work-related emails that have lots of technology jargon.
* I wanted a high-resolution screen (mine is 800x480).
* I didn't know it then, but I really like the multitasking capability. Switching between email and Mobile Word or Powerpoint is important when I have to review somebody's document or presentation and write them an email response. Toss in the occasional web lookup, and a lack of multitasking would just kill me.
* I tried TouchFlo3D on my phone (custom ROM), but now just use SPB Mobile Shell 3. Doesn't look anything like Windows, except for the email client.

I have to say that I would have a very difficult time deciding. I now have a work iPhone and a personal BB. But I can do work email (Exchange server) from the BB if I have to type. The personal phone could just as easily be a WM device with a good keyboard. If the Touch Pro 2 had been available on VZW when I got my BB it may very well have been. And the apps as well as some other features of the iPhone are critical for me. In thinking about it about the only conclusion that I have is that Palm and Symbian phones seem to have a rocky future in the smart phone arena. I cant see them doing very well.

BTW, I checked out the Pre yesterday and was not in love with the keyboard. My old Moto Q was easier to type on as I was constantly hitting two keys at the same same with my clumsy thumbs on the Pre. :td:

I hate typing on the touch screen of my XV6900 (HTC Touch) and have tried the iPhone touch screen also and wasn't in love with it. I am at this point in a holding pattern circling the Big Red phone store and website and I am anxiously awaiting for the release of the TP 2.

yeah, i found the same thing with the pre, the keyboard was a real letdown. I really had to bend my thumbs to get a good direct input. Some say it "breaks in", but I don't want ot count on that. I'm very happy with the 3gs, jailbroken to run multiple apps at the same time - which apple REALLY needs to at least enable a user to select.

yeah, i found the same thing with the pre, the keyboard was a real letdown. I really had to bend my thumbs to get a good direct input. Some say it "breaks in", but I don't want ot count on that. I'm very happy with the 3gs, jailbroken to run multiple apps at the same time - which apple REALLY needs to at least enable a user to select.

Maybe we should start a new thread and formulate a list of phones with user friendly hard keyboards? @:-)

Maybe we should start a new thread and formulate a list of phones with user friendly hard keyboards? @:-)

Speaking purely of keyboards, onereally can't beat the full-width landscape form factor for a PDA keyboard; that basically means the HTC sliders, a very few sliders from other manufacturer, or the Nokia landscape clamshells :)

The 5-row keyboard on the Touch Pro is a little smaller per-key than the one on my older 6700, but overall not having to use the Fn-key for numbers makes it worth it.

Speaking purely of keyboards, onereally can't beat the full-width landscape form factor for a PDA keyboard; that basically means the HTC sliders, a very few sliders from other manufacturer, or the Nokia landscape clamshells :)

The 5-row keyboard on the Touch Pro is a little smaller per-key than the one on my older 6700, but overall not having to use the Fn-key for numbers makes it worth it.

If I read the reviews correctly the new TP 2's keyboard is larger per key than the TP. Can anyone confirm this?
BTW, it the preview pictures are correct the Verizon version's casing won't get altered like they did with the TP. The Sprint version of the TP was much easier to hold as opposed to the Big Red one that was squared off on the corners.

The 5-row keyboard on the Touch Pro is a little smaller per-key than the one on my older 6700, but overall not having to use the Fn-key for numbers makes it worth it.

Having the Fuze for a month now, so far so good. Like you said I do like the extra keys so I don't have to use the Fn key all the time. But I still miss my Siemens SK65 keyboard. Now I just need to figure out how to download google map into the microSD card without getting block when I am traveling abroad.

Got them the 1st day out, June 6th, one mine, the other for my wife. After a couple of weeks of use, I returned it. I couldn't live with the sub-par battery life. Even after shutting off most applications that I wasn't using, the battery meter was at 40% during noon time, and I've yet to make a call on it. By the time I left work, the phone was almost dead and I had to re-charge it. This occurred to both phones. My biggest thing is that if I had an emergency, I want to be sure the phone could be used, not with the PRE, during the course of a day, it has to be recharged at least 2 times. To make the battery last, you had to switch off most application, so, why spend $200 for a smartphone that you have to switch off its application so the battery could last a day! Seems to me that if you have to switch off most applications, why use the phone to begin with. The appearance was slick, but upon closer look, it is a cheap plastic cover, and it could come apart. I have not used the iphone, but it looks great. After reading all this, I will try the HTC Pro 2 to give it a try. We are back to our previous phones, the instinct, at least it can keep a charge for at least 2 days with use, not the Pre, you couldnt make it till noon time.

Got them the 1st day out, June 6th, one mine, the other for my wife. After a couple of weeks of use, I returned it. I couldn't live with the sub-par battery life. Even after shutting off most applications that I wasn't using, the battery meter was at 40% during noon time, and I've yet to make a call on it. By the time I left work, the phone was almost dead and I had to re-charge it. This occurred to both phones. My biggest thing is that if I had an emergency, I want to be sure the phone could be used, not with the PRE, during the course of a day, it has to be recharged at least 2 times. To make the battery last, you had to switch off most application, so, why spend $200 for a smartphone that you have to switch off its application so the battery could last a day! Seems to me that if you have to switch off most applications, why use the phone to begin with. The appearance was slick, but upon closer look, it is a cheap plastic cover, and it could come apart. I have not used the iphone, but it looks great. After reading all this, I will try the HTC Pro 2 to give it a try. We are back to our previous phones, the instinct, at least it can keep a charge for at least 2 days with use, not the Pre, you couldnt make it till noon time.

If the rumor is true, then you'll be able to get the Android powered HTC Hero on Sprint in October - no hardware keyboard though.

I've also got the Touch Pro2 here - amazing phone, but I'm beginning to think Android is the best mobile OS ever developed. As it keeps maturing, it just keeps getting better and better.

But I still miss my Siemens SK65 keyboard.

Now I just need to figure out how to download google map into the microSD card without getting block when I am traveling abroad.

Depending on where you go, an old copy of Microsoft Mappoint or MS Streets and Trips may be the answer - it comes with something called Pocket Streets for which it can export maps. They had US and European editions, although I believe they've dropped the functionality from the newest versions - I went from 2006 (which had it) to 2009 which doesn't seem to; don't know if they have any versions for anywhere else.

Works with the GPS in my (Sprint) Touch Pro, even without a data signal (also will show geocodes even when off the map entirely.)

Speaking purely of keyboards, onereally can't beat the full-width landscape form factor for a PDA keyboard; that basically means the HTC sliders, a very few sliders from other manufacturer, or the Nokia landscape clamshells :)

The 5-row keyboard on the Touch Pro is a little smaller per-key than the one on my older 6700, but overall not having to use the Fn-key for numbers makes it worth it.

I must have weird thumbs. I found that the easiest keyboard for me to use was the Sony X1's keyboard, which has a lot of space between each key, unlike the TP keyboards. I tended to mash the wrong key too many times on the TP, but was fast and accurate out of the box on the X1.

But yeah, using Fn to get to the numeric keypad is kind of annoying. :)

Got them the 1st day out, June 6th, one mine, the other for my wife. After a couple of weeks of use, I returned it. I couldn't live with the sub-par battery life. Even after shutting off most applications that I wasn't using, the battery meter was at 40% during noon time, and I've yet to make a call on it. By the time I left work, the phone was almost dead and I had to re-charge it. This occurred to both phones. My biggest thing is that if I had an emergency, I want to be sure the phone could be used, not with the PRE, during the course of a day, it has to be recharged at least 2 times. To make the battery last, you had to switch off most application, so, why spend $200 for a smartphone that you have to switch off its application so the battery could last a day! Seems to me that if you have to switch off most applications, why use the phone to begin with. The appearance was slick, but upon closer look, it is a cheap plastic cover, and it could come apart. I have not used the iphone, but it looks great. After reading all this, I will try the HTC Pro 2 to give it a try. We are back to our previous phones, the instinct, at least it can keep a charge for at least 2 days with use, not the Pre, you couldnt make it till noon time.

Strange. I have a Pre and get very good battery life from it except when I'm using it to run a WiFi tether. (I try to keep it plugged in to the USB port when I'm doing that.) I can easily go a whole weekend without recharging if I'm just using it for phone calls and occasional web browsing from the phone.

I too worry about the durability of the device. I agree that it's slick but it has this slightly-fragile feel to it when it is opened up to use the keyboard. Is it really going to last at least 12 months until I'm eligible for another handset upgrade? I don't know...

The most common complaint that Pre users are having is that the phone will occasionally shut itself down when you open or close it. This happens to me once or twice per week. Our Sprint rep says that it's because the battery isn't quite seated perfectly in the phone. Apparently the guys at the store can fix it, but unless it gets worse I can't be a**ed to go spend an hour of my life at a Sprint store. (They aren't known for being speedy.)

Overall, having a fast, WEP-secured WiFi tether that still allows incoming calls is so wonderful that I can't complain too much at all.

I'm a programmer and the local hardware guy in our sw engineering group, so *shrug* at tech guru arguments one way or the other.

As for Touchflo, I found it unintuitive, not very visually attractive, and easy to accidentally set off "features" I did't want and in some cases which I was worried would trigger Sprint billing. Given that I'd been (fairly happily) using plain old Windows CE/WinMo for about 8 years, just didn't seem worth the learning curve.I still prefer the old WindowsMobile2003 2ndEd - *much* better on the O2 XDAII!

I have to say that I would have a very difficult time deciding. I now have a work iPhone and a personal BB. But I can do work email (Exchange server) from the BB if I have to type. The personal phone could just as easily be a WM device with a good keyboard.I would concur with the BB being only good for typing and e-mail, and specifically the Curve 8900 over the Bold, because one does not have to move one's fingers very far, plus use the tips of one's fingers for input. (I have large hands) I use a TyTnII as a primary phone/device, but am not happy with WinMo6.1.

If I read the reviews correctly the new TP 2's keyboard is larger per key than the TP. Can anyone confirm this?The keyboard and the keys are supposed to be larger than any of the previously-released HTC's.

My summary in a nutshell:

(1) iPhone - Plus: best phone, best all-around device (phone/PDA/iPod/applications), best music, best web-surfing. Minus: locked to ATT in US, inferior keyboard for text/email.

(2) Blackberry - Plus: far and away best email client (also true for gmail and yahoo mail apps), good phone, okay camera, best network options (supported by all major US carriers), good international roaming options. Minus: no iTunes, very few apps, inferior web interface, no free wi-fi?

(3) Palm Pre - Plus: good calendar and address apps, good keyboard. Minus: Limited to CDMA, no iTunes (though jailbreak possible?), inferior app selection.

Personally I'm hoping USDOJ will work to eliminate exclusive tying arrangements so that I can finally get a Sprint iPhone. In the meantime, I'll survive with my Blackberry curve and iPod touch.

Caveat - I don't have a Pre but was previously a Palm user. I don't have an iPhone, but use an iPod touch. I use a Blackberry curve, so these comments don't apply to touch screen blackberry.