Travel Technology - Can I Use My Kindle During Take-Off & Landing?

My husband is tired of lugging around 20 paperbacks, and I have been converted to a Kindle Electronic Book. The device has two modes. When the "Wireless" mode is on I can purchase books from Amazon and they are instantly loaded onto the Kindle. I realize that this is not something I would be permitted to do. Because it uses battery power I keep the Wireless mode turned off all the time except when I am actually purchasing books.

The other mode is simply when the machine is "on" so I can read the book. I cannot imagine how reading my book from my Kindle would cause any electronic interference. Does anyone know if there is a policy on these devices, or will they just fall under the umbrella of "electronic device"?

The Kindle is always "on". There is always a screen-saver displayed. I just slide a bar to "wake" it up so I can read. I do not know how to turn it off. I assume it cannot be turned off.

I will probably have to take a paperback if I cannot use my Kindle. I do not do take-offs and landings very well without something to distract me.

My husband is tired of lugging around 20 paperbacks, and I have been converted to a Kindle Electronic Book. The device has two modes. When the "Wireless" mode is on I can purchase books from Amazon and they are instantly loaded onto the Kindle. I realize that this is not something I would be permitted to do. Because it uses battery power I keep the Wireless mode turned off all the time except when I am actually purchasing books.

The other mode is simply when the machine is "on" so I can read the book. I cannot imagine how reading my book from my Kindle would cause any electronic interference. Does anyone know if there is a policy on these devices, or will they just fall under the umbrella of "electronic device"?

The Kindle is always "on". There is always a screen-saver displayed. I just slide a bar to "wake" it up so I can read. I do not know how to turn it off. I assume it cannot be turned off.

I will probably have to take a paperback if I cannot use my Kindle. I do not do take-offs and landings very well without something to distract me.

I would imagine if it has an "on-off" switch, then it will need to be off for take-off and landings. Usually the FAs will announce "anything with an on-off switch needs to be turned off".

I would imagine if it has an "on-off" switch, then it will need to be off for take-off and landings. Usually the FAs will announce "anything with an on-off switch needs to be turned off".

This was my thought too, but the rules can't keep up.

I think you will have a problem with the FA if you try to use it during takeoff and landing. It definitely is an electronic device. I doubt that saying that it won't interfere with the plane's electronics will persuade the FA to let you use it. In my opinion, you would be inviting an unpleasant confrontation, and who needs one of those?

If it's electronic and has an on/off switch, it's required by the FARs to be off below 10,000 feet. Not a DL regulation, but a federal one.

I really don't know what I'm talking about. But I seem to remember reading that the kindle doesn't use any power to keep things on the screen it only uses power to change the image. OTOH it looks like it's electronic so atleast at some point an FA is going to get mad.

You can download a user's guide from here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fkindle%2FKindl e_User_Guide.pdf&ei=B505SoeiIo22lAeXo-TiDQ&rct=j&q=kindle+users+manual&usg=AFQjCNGAs5L4_bBs7kwjjV9dwnVADfXLzg

From the User's Guide:

Wireless Safety
In general, turn the wireless switch on your Kindle to the OFF position in areas where its use is forbidden or when it may cause interference or danger. Some specific situations are described below.

In general, any place you are not allowed to use your cell phone, you should not use your Kindle with the wireless service turned on.

Turn Off Wireless When Flying
Turn off your wireless service before boarding any aircraft. To prevent possible interference with aircraft systems, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations require you to have permission from a crew member to use your device’s wireless service while the plane is on the
ground.

If you have your wireless service turned off, you can use your Kindle for reading once a crew member has said it is okay to use approved electronic devices. [Emphasis is mine]

Looks like use during takeoff and landing would be a NO.

But you will probably get some responses here that such rules do not apply to FlyerTalk members.

It has the capability of being turned off, per the user guide. Plus, based on the size, I would expect that you may also be asked to stow it properly, under the seat in front of you or in an overhead compartment (see the other threads on the seatback pocket issues).

The Kindle does not have an "on"-"off" switch. If the wireless device is turned off it is not using any electronic signal or energy. However, if you look at it, it looks like there is a screen-saver and that it is in some "resting" status which would imply that it is pulling some type of power.

I imagine if a FA sees it she will assume it is turned "on". I keep thinking I should be able to turn it off so I have a blank screen, but I cannot do it.

I expect I shall have to keep it in my purse until we reach altitude and attempt to divert my attention with a magazine.

To the OP: Kindle (at least kindle 2) can be easily turned off by sliding & holding the switch for about 10 sec or so.

I have taken my kindle 2 on a number of flights this year and have yet to be reminded by FA to turn it off during take off (or landing, albeit I didn't actually use it during landing).

Just tried that, and it did not work. I will call the Kindle number at Amazon tomorrow and see. I do not know what model I have. It was a mother's day gift, and arrived in a package, turned on, and loaded with several new best-sellers. One little card of information, but no instructions. I am reading through the User's Guide again now.

Thanks for the help. I guess I knew the answer, but since it was not specifically mentioned in the banned items, I hoped it would be OK to use it.

As previous mentioned, slide the switch at the top and hold it for 5-10 seconds. The screen will go blank rather than display the screen saver. This is "off."

Kindle's CANNOT be turned off. There is no ON/OFF switch.

The wireless system CAN be turned off.

Sliding the switch and holding for 10 sec puts a screensaver on the screen. This has NO impact on the kindle being ON/OFF.

On 6 flights I've asked pilots in front of the FA's if it's OK to read a Kindle since it does not have an ON/OFF switch and all I can do is close the cover. 4 pilots have said reading them during takeoff/landing is find but just make sure the wireless is off.

I knew all you technical people would answer this question. I just turned it off. It was scary to get it to turn back on, so I do not know if I will try that again. It should have come on within five seconds. I took me nearly three minutes to get it to turn back on, and I had to keep holding the slide switch in place for 20 to 25 seconds.

I will simply put it into my carry-on in the same place I keep my spare paperback, and then remove it once we are at altitude. I do not really think that an FA is going to start going through every carry-on to see if the Kindle is turned off or is just "sleeping".

I am aware of the back of the seat storage issue. I have seen FAs remove personal material from the seat back pockets several times this year. I won't put my Kindle there.

Thanks for the help.

Please continue to follow this thread in the FT Travel Technology Forum.
Thanks..
Obscure2k
Delta Moderator

Kindle's CANNOT be turned off. There is no ON/OFF switch.

Sliding the switch and holding for 10 sec puts a screensaver on the screen. This has NO impact on the kindle being ON/OFF.


For the Kindle 2, at least, this is wrong. Sliding the switch and NOT holding it puts the screensaver on. Sliding the switch and holding it for 10 seconds turns the Kindle off.

I only speak from Kindle DX experience. Sliding the switch and quickly releasing will enable a screensaver of sorts or turn it back on for reading. Sliding and holding the switch for four seconds will put the unit in power-saving mode with a blank screen. Sliding and holding the switch for 15 seconds or longer will reset the device.

If I can't use my MP3 player on takeoff or landing then I am 150 percent positive that you cannot use your Kindle. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the good news is that you can use it once the seatbelt sign switches off. Too bad t he American airlines do not adopt the 10,000 feet rule that European carriers use when turning the seatbelt sign on or off. An aircraft is safe at 10,000 feet its the takeoff and landing which could pose the most problems once you are leveled off there is usually not a problem.

I agree that a Kindle won't interfere with the airplane's electrical system, but this argument will never win. Lots of people cheat and put their device in standby mode on planes (watch how quick Blackberry users get their e-mail on landing, a fully powered down Blackberry takes three to four minutes to be brought back to life), reading the Kindle, however makes you a target.

Grab one of the free magazines or papers in the airline lounge to get you through take off or landing or get a paperback of short stories. Don't get a novel because you will get hooked and tempted to finish it before the week is over.

An FA had my seatmate turn off his Kindle for landing on UA a few weeks ago.

I have seen a fellow pax use one during TO and Landing. We were if F, he was in the aisle seat and it was very obvious he was reading it. Several FAs passed by at various times after the door was closed and not one said a word. Don't know if this is policy or he got lucky being in F.

You need to turn it OFF or put it away, else when attempting to get off the plane, the flight attendant will physically restrained you and grab your shoulders so that you cannot get off.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/965211-should-i-worried-about.html

I have seen a fellow pax use one during TO and Landing. We were if F, he was in the aisle seat and it was very obvious he was reading it. Several FAs passed by at various times after the door was closed and not one said a word. Don't know if this is policy or he got lucky being in F.

This has been my experience too.

The Kindle does not have an "on"-"off" switch. If the wireless device is turned off it is not using any electronic signal or energy. However, if you look at it, it looks like there is a screen-saver and that it is in some "resting" status which would imply that it is pulling some type of power.

I imagine if a FA sees it she will assume it is turned "on". I keep thinking I should be able to turn it off so I have a blank screen, but I cannot do it.

I expect I shall have to keep it in my purse until we reach altitude and attempt to divert my attention with a magazine.

of course this is an on/off switch. While the screen image is not using any energy to continue to display whatever image is on it, the machine is ON when switched to ON and ready to accept input from the buttons, next page or joystick. That would mean that as an electronic device, it is ON and producing whatever EME or EMF the airlines and FAA are trying to avoid during TO/Landing.

I have a Kindle 1 and never have the wireless on while on a plane, but I never bother to turn the unit off completely. I think it's hit or miss as to whether an FA will stop you from reading the Kindle while taking off or landing. If they realize that it's an electronic device, they probably will, but at a quick glance the Kindle looks like a book and will often go unnoticed. But no FA is going to check to see if the unit is actually turned off.

I've had a Kindle now (first the 1, then the 2) for about a year and a half. I've flown with it all over the place, both domestic and international.

Both the K1 and the K2 (almost certainly what the OP has) have an "off" switch, as has been discussed upthread. Given the way the Kindle works, I see no reason why you actually need to turn it "off" as opposed to putting it into sleep mode. It isn't emitting any signals or using any power while in sleep mode. It isn't like an LCD screen.

As to reading the Kindle during takeoff/landing, no, you aren't suposed to. Whether people get away with it (and if you're in a window seat and using a cover, it's not surprising that you could) is another matter. I bring a couple of magazines with me and read those during this time -- together they still weigh less than a paperback and I can leave them behind when done.

I generally leave the Kindle in the seatback pocket during takeoff for easy access after I hear the "ding" and I've never been told not to. I think an FA would have a hard time seeing it was even there without physically opening the pocket.

The wireless, obviously, should be off at all times.

I only speak from Kindle DX experience. Sliding the switch and quickly releasing will enable a screensaver of sorts or turn it back on for reading. Sliding and holding the switch for four seconds will put the unit in power-saving mode with a blank screen. Sliding and holding the switch for 15 seconds or longer will reset the device.

The controls are the same on the K2. The K1 is different but has similar features.

The easy answer is that by the book (har har har) it is supopsed to be off. But I've had mine on through many, many take offs and landings. When the FAs tell me to put it away I do. Otherwise i keep reading.

The controls are the same on the K2. The K1 is different but has similar features.

The easy answer is that by the book (har har har) it is supopsed to be off. But I've had mine on through many, many take offs and landings. When the FAs tell me to put it away I do. Otherwise i keep reading.

ditto

Not sure what I will do. I have packed a couple of magazines, and I will probably read those. I have never broken an airline rule, and probably do not want to start over just a few minutes when I cannot read my novel.

ditto

+1 on that. I've been asked once to turn it off. Even sat across from an FA who was in the jumpseat and was asking me about it.

I have a Kindle 1 and have used it from boarding to leaving the plane. I have had FAs pass me and not say anything. I do nothowever, use the wireless feature on the aircraft.
I have used it in E+ and First on domestic flights, and in C on international flights.

Has anyone ever had a FA ask them to turn off the Kindle, or has anyone seen a FA ask another passenger to turn off a Kindle?

Those of you who read during take-off and landing, do you have a cover on your Kindle?

The Kindle was originally designed with no 'on/off' switch because the way it functions there really is no state of on or off. The product mgr (I believe Jay Maine?) was concerned about being inundated with customer calls asking how to turn it off so the soft reset capability was renamed on/off and changed from momentary to static so that there would be the appearance of an on/off capability.

I have never had an FA or anyone else ask me to turn my Kindle off during TO or Landing. Pilots seem to be aware of how Kindles function and most don't seem to have a problem with people using them (with wireless off) during TO/Landing.

Given how many cell phones, kindles, and other radio based devices are carried on to planes I wonder how many are left on during the entire flight (figure 90% have a cell, 40% a laptop, 3% a kindle 1% a radio enabled watch?). I'd bet the average plane has at least 20 to 30 devices turned on with their radio's working during TO/Landing.

(figure 90% have a cell, 40% a laptop, 3% a kindle 1% a radio enabled watch?)

You travel with Dick Tracy?

You travel with Dick Tracy?Yep :-)

My wife's watch collects info from a bunch of equipment in the gym, uses GPS to track running workouts, and auto uploads it to her laptop. So these watches do both GPS reception and ANT+ (Bluetooth?) xmit/receive. I've seen a number of travelers with similar watches.

Has anyone ever had a FA ask them to turn off the Kindle, or has anyone seen a FA ask another passenger to turn off a Kindle? ...See posts 20 (UA 824, SFO-BOS, May 25, 2009) and 30 above for two examples. Post 30 says that, in that poster's experience, the example is an exception.

Follow Up. I completed my outbound flight yesterday. I never put my Kindle up. Had aisle seat in FC. FA could clearly see I was reading and made no request that I put it up at any time. There were three other people in FC also reading from Kindles. They did not put their Kindles away either.

People really like to talk to you about this new technology. I spent more time answering questions while waiting to board than I did actually reading.

The display taechnology used in the Kindle (and other eBooks) does not require power to hold an image. It does, however, require power to change the image.

So, strictly speaking, in a true "off" mode you could continue to read the same page that was displayed when you "turned it off", but you could not "turn the page".

However, just as noise cancelling headphones are now allowed during TO in some cases, I expect that regulators will eventually catch up and allow Ebooks.

It really seems to depend on the FA. I've had mine since February, and am about 50/50 on being asked to turn it off. If they comment or question about it when I board and bring it out, I ask if they mind me keeping it on. Otherwise, I just keep it out. Most FAs who know what it is don't mind it.

I just put it to standby and close the cover if requested to turn it off. The only electrical impulses are when the page is turned. If it's on standby (screen saver up), nothing is being emitted.

I am a pilot for an airline and while I don't believe a Kindle or any other electronic device would interfere with the airplanes electronics, the Federal (FCC+FAA) Law says that NO electronic devices may be operated below 10,000' unless advised by your crew. My airline allows the use of cell phones after landing for example. So I would have to enforce the Federal Laws as the captain or else bad things could happen to me, by the Feds.

It seems that 1) the kindle should be off and stowed during takeoff and landing, same as any other electronic device or potential projectile. 2) In flight I'd assume that people do know to turn off the radio.

It seems that 1) the kindle should be off and stowed during takeoff and landing, same as any other electronic device or potential projectile.
Is a hardback book a potential projectile? They weigh about the same amount. ;)

I agree that it probably should be stowed based on it being an electronic device and I don't argue it when asked, but it is no more of a projectile than anything else you might hold in your hands.

Is a hardback book a potential projectile? They weigh about the same amount. ;)

I agree that it probably should be stowed based on it being an electronic device and I don't argue it when asked, but it is no more of a projectile than anything else you might hold in your hands.

Agree... and yes, a hardcover is also a potential projectile.

Certainly the Kindle is not nearly as much risk as a projectile as a hard cover book would be. It only weighs a few ounces.

Certainly the Kindle is not nearly as much risk as a projectile as a hard cover book would be. It only weighs a few ounces.

You haven't handled a Kindle DX have you? ;):p

You haven't handled a Kindle DX have you? ;):p

+1 :D

guy sitting next to me yesterday, kindle on take off, kindle on landing. I asked him if it was an electronic device, he said it didn't use any power. I asked if it maybe had to use power when changing planes, "uh," why would it have an on/off switch.

I just cannot believe sometimes the audacity of people.

Another guy had his iphone on, NOT in pilot mode so he could get messages while landing. What a freaking idiot.

guy sitting next to me yesterday, kindle on take off, kindle on landing. I asked him if it was an electronic device, he said it didn't use any power. I asked if it maybe had to use power when changing planes, "uh," why would it have an on/off switch.

If the radio is turned off, the Kindle generates far less EM output than a laptop in standby mode, and I bet there are dozens of those stowed on the aircraft (never mind the cell phones that people have stowed away in their luggage without turning them off). Unless you're turning the page, the Kindle is about as "off" as electronics get these days . . . again, assuming the radio is turned off. I usually keep my radio off because doing so dramatically increases the battery life.

I just cannot believe sometimes the audacity of people.

Sorry, but . . . :rolleyes:

Another guy had his iphone on, NOT in pilot mode so he could get messages while landing. What a freaking idiot.

I agree with you there. While cell phone EMI hasn't been proven as a culprit in any aircraft accidents, the potential does exist (although aberrant behavior from cockpit electronics has only been shown under very extreme conditions).

On UA flight over the weekend the FA specifically included Kindles in her list of electronic items.

I have used my Kindle during take-off and landing for the past few months. I always ask the FA, and none of them have requested that I turn it off. On my flight on Wednesday the pilot sat down next to me and wanted to see it because he had not seen it before. He took it to the cockpit and he and the co-pilot played with it.

The pilot said it did not create enough of an electrical signal to cause any type of problem during take-off or landing.

Clearly if any airline crew request that it be turned off, I would comply.

I obviously keep the wireless feature turned off, not only just on take-off and landing, but throughout the flight. Since it uses technology similar to a cell phone I think that it would not be appropriate to use that feature on the plane.

I have asked on every single flight since I got my Kindle in February, and on every flight have been told to turn it off.

Flying out of LHR a couple of weeks ago, was told I could keep it on, then the CSR(??) told me I definitely had to turn it off. After takeoff, he came to my seat and we had a long chat about it; he was curious and was pretty sure he was going to buy one.

But I've never been allowed to keep it on during TO and landing. I always forget to bring a magazine, so I almost memorize the airline magazine and the airmall catalog thing.

Most of the time I use it and don't get asked to turn it off. Occasionally, a flight attendant will request that I turn it off....I always comply.

I guess my previous point wasn't really clear. I'm not interested in debating how much EMF or wireless frequency broadcast device A or device B generates, and whether or not these types of transmission have a risk of interferring with avionics, onboard GPS, transmission, etc. The rule is, "turn off ALL ELECTRONIC DEVICES, ANYTHING WITH AN ON/OFF SWITCH" I just don't understand why individuals continue to think that they are smarter, or somehow above this law/requirement from the FAA and airlines. Why don't they choose NOT to put on their seatbelts, or put UP their tray tables, or maybe keep a large roller-board in the exit row, or maybe BE in the exit row with a cast on their leg and only able to speak and understand Romanian!?

I don't find it a huge loss of my time spent on the plane, for the simple period of 10 minutes after take-off, and 10 minutes BEFORE landing to just turn the $*@( OFF.

There is nobody on this planet who is so important or necessary that they must have a 1-3 minute advance read of their inbox, or final pages of any content on a kindle that they need to turn on their blackberry before landing, so it will download all content, or keep ANY electronic device on and POSSIBLY, if only in the most ridiculously small way risk anyone around them, if only that they may be totally distracted when an unforseen event occurs?

I guess my previous point wasn't really clear. I'm not interested in debating how much EMF or wireless frequency broadcast device A or device B generates, and whether or not these types of transmission have a risk of interferring with avionics, onboard GPS, transmission, etc. The rule is, "turn off ALL ELECTRONIC DEVICES, ANYTHING WITH AN ON/OFF SWITCH" I just don't understand why individuals continue to think that they are smarter, or somehow above this law/requirement from the FAA and airlines. Why don't they choose NOT to put on their seatbelts, or put UP their tray tables, or maybe keep a large roller-board in the exit row, or maybe BE in the exit row with a cast on their leg and only able to speak and understand Romanian!?



Maybe some people just don't believe in mindlessly following rules because they are told to? Instead they want to understand the logic behind them? In the case of the of the electronic rules there is not much logic behind them unless you are flying in some ancient aircraft with absolutely no shielding of electronic components... Protip, turn your cell phone off in an vintage Piper Cub... :)

It's an electronic device and must be turned off along with everything else, IME. On my last flight, it was off and stowed in the seatback pocket. The FA came down the aisle and asked me to take my "laptop" out of the pocket. I told her it was a Kindle and she said, "What?". She had absolutely no idea what a Kindle was.

I guess my previous point wasn't really clear. I'm not interested in debating how much EMF or wireless frequency broadcast device A or device B generates, and whether or not these types of transmission have a risk of interferring with avionics, onboard GPS, transmission, etc. The rule is, "turn off ALL ELECTRONIC DEVICES, ANYTHING WITH AN ON/OFF SWITCH" I just don't understand why individuals continue to think that they are smarter, or somehow above this law/requirement from the FAA and airlines. Why don't they choose NOT to put on their seatbelts, or put UP their tray tables, or maybe keep a large roller-board in the exit row, or maybe BE in the exit row with a cast on their leg and only able to speak and understand Romanian!?

I don't find it a huge loss of my time spent on the plane, for the simple period of 10 minutes after take-off, and 10 minutes BEFORE landing to just turn the $*@( OFF.

There is nobody on this planet who is so important or necessary that they must have a 1-3 minute advance read of their inbox, or final pages of any content on a kindle that they need to turn on their blackberry before landing, so it will download all content, or keep ANY electronic device on and POSSIBLY, if only in the most ridiculously small way risk anyone around them, if only that they may be totally distracted when an unforseen event occurs?

You must've skipped my stance on smartphones, which agrees with yours.

Regarding the Kindle: I won't object to stowing my Kindle as long as the flight crew also makes everyone else stow their books and magazines during takeoff and landing.

I was on 689 this morning ATL-DFW. The gentleman (if you can call him that) accross the aisle had his Kindle on the whole flight from at the gate in ATL to almost TD in DFW. I asked a FA if that is an electronic device. She said that she hadn't really thought about it and wasn't sure, than said that it does have an O/O switch, so it is. On the landing announcement, she included Kindle on the devices that need to be turned off. Well, Mr. Gentleman turned it off---until the FAs took their seats back (this happened at 0+30 before TD due to turbulence) and Mr. Kindle turned it back on until we were on final. I have two questions: Does anyone know if a Kindle is electronic (the FAs didn't say anything until I asked)?

I have not really flown F until this year (due to EXP), and it appears that more pax in F break rules than in Y. Am I the only one who observes that or am I imagining it? On other flights in F, I have observed pax turning on cellphones before td, getting up before at the gate, etc. I just don't remember as many "rules breakers" in Y. And if it is observed, does anyone say anything to the offender?

yes, Kindle is an electronic device. It uses e-ink and it has an internal receiver (for wifi and mobile network connectivity).

I for one have lied and said my Kindle doesn't have an on/off switch. This worked in the past, but works less well now.

Either way, the interference won't make a difference, and I almost always turn mine back on as soon as the flight attendants have taken their seats. I do religiously turn off all *other* electronic devices, and I make sure to turn off the Kindle radio -- but to deprive one of reading material, takes it one too far.


yes, Kindle is an electronic device. It uses e-ink and it has an internal receiver (for wifi and mobile network connectivity).

So do some wristwatches -- but we aren't asked to turn those off for takeoff/landing.

1. The default answer for AA is the on/off switch. If it has on it's supposed to be off.

2. I don't think there are more rule breakers in F than Y, but I'm a rule breaker so I don't pay much attention.

I for one have lied and said my Kindle doesn't have an on/off switch. This worked in the past, but works less well now.

Either way, the interference won't make a difference, and I almost always turn mine back on as soon as the flight attendants have taken their seats. I do religiously turn off all *other* electronic devices, and I make sure to turn off the Kindle radio -- but to deprive one of reading material, takes it one too far.

So do some wristwatches -- but we aren't asked to turn those off for takeoff/landing.


^ I pretty much agree with this. The whole electronic thing is a silly/stupid rule and I would break the rule whenever I could. I shut off my phone for Take Off/Approach/Landing, but if I had a Kindle.. you could darn well be sure that I'm keeping it on.

Once you turn the cell phone part of the Kindle off, it poses no risk.

I'm batting about 75% as far as whether the FA forces me to turn off the Kindle. Since I usually use it with the Amazon cover, a lot of FA's don't even notice it as electronic given it doesn't give off the characteristic glare of an active LCD.

yes, Kindle is an electronic device. It uses e-ink and it has an internal receiver (for wifi and mobile network connectivity).

Once set in a particular pattern, the e-ink used by the Kindle takes zero power to maintain, unlike a typical LCD screen. The Kindle literature says this quite clearly (https://kindle.s3.amazonaws.com/Kindle%20User%E2%80%99s%20Guide%2C%202nd%20Ed.-%20English.pdf): "electronic paper does not need power to hold the ink in place". Therefore, as long as the wireless (radio) feature of the Kindle is turned off, which is achieved via a software setting and not via a physical switch, the Kindle poses absolutely no "electronic" hazard to the airplane or its communications systems. It literally makes no difference whether or not the physical on/off switch on the top of the device is "on" or "off" -- either way, the Kindle e-ink screen is on. The only thing that differs is whether an actual book page or one of the several generic Kindle standby screens is displayed.

AA doesn't make us literally pull the batteries out of our cell phones and other electronic devices; they just require that we turn the phones off (i.e., no wireless connection). Similarly, there is no reason for AA to insist that we display a Kindle standby page rather than an actual Kindle book page, even during takeoff and landing (by analogy, we're not required to close our paper books and display the covers at those times). All we should do is turn the Kindle wireless off. Just like for a cell phone, there's really no way for them to know whether or not we truly do so (short of grabbing the device out of our hand and examining it), but we should still turn off the wireless... and there's no good reason for them to force us to stop reading on the Kindle.

^ I pretty much agree with this. The whole electronic thing is a silly/stupid rule and I would break the rule whenever I could. I shut off my phone for Take Off/Approach/Landing, but if I had a Kindle.. you could darn well be sure that I'm keeping it on.

Perhaps they would like you to turn off the electronic device to make sure you can quickly and easily pay attention to crew member instructions in case of an emergency event (I presume their are more such events during takeoff and landing than during cruise).

Perhaps they would like you to turn off the electronic device to make sure you can quickly and easily pay attention to crew member instructions in case of an emergency event (I presume their are more such events during takeoff and landing than during cruise).

In that respect what's the difference between reading a Kindle and a book. If what you say above is the reason for turning it off, then they should ask people to put away their books/newspapers/magazines....but they don't.

As two previous posters have mentioned, the Kindle does not require any power to keep an image on its screen. Therefore, it should not be included.

Perhaps with yours. My Kindle certainly has a switch (held 5 - 10 seconds) and turns on and off.

Kindle's CANNOT be turned off. There is no ON/OFF switch.

The wireless system CAN be turned off.

Sliding the switch and holding for 10 sec puts a screensaver on the screen. This has NO impact on the kindle being ON/OFF.

On 6 flights I've asked pilots in front of the FA's if it's OK to read a Kindle since it does not have an ON/OFF switch and all I can do is close the cover. 4 pilots have said reading them during takeoff/landing is find but just make sure the wireless is off.

I have a Kindle 1 and never have the wireless on while on a plane, but I never bother to turn the unit off completely. I think it's hit or miss as to whether an FA will stop you from reading the Kindle while taking off or landing. If they realize that it's an electronic device, they probably will, but at a quick glance the Kindle looks like a book and will often go unnoticed. But no FA is going to check to see if the unit is actually turned off.


This kind of post is very amusing to me. Why is it that most passengers think flight attendants are technologically challenged? I am one of the flight attendants who checks that they are turned off when the person still has their device out and obviously on way after the electronic device announcement was made. I don't get it when people tell me they are off yet continue to text on their phones, type on their laptop, read their kindles, dial up the next song on their ipod....etc. Maybe you can help me understand what that's all about.

Do you think flight attendants are stupid or that we live in the airplane and have no knowledge of any new electronic breakthroughs? Kind of like you're visiting the past in your time machine and the flight attendants from the past just think you're all eccentric because you're talking into objects, typing on weird typewriters, and have items that light up. :rolleyes:

It's really not so hard. All electronic devices off means, um, all electronic devices off. I kind of get a kick out of doing my final checks before takeoff and then quietly skulking back up the aisle a few minutes later to catch all the people who thought I was gone who have turned their electronics back on, put their trays back down, and once again reclined their seats. There's always a few. The other passengers enjoy it too. :D

It's really not so hard. All electronic devices off means, um, all electronic devices off.
Including things like digital watches...

Do you think flight attendants are stupid or that we live in the airplane and have no knowledge of any new electronic breakthroughs? Kind of like you're visiting the past in your time machine and the flight attendants from the past just think you're all eccentric because you're talking into objects, typing on weird typewriters, and have items that light up. :rolleyes:

Then, as a technologically adept FA, you surely realize that on the average flight there are likely 30-50 laptops in "suspend" mode in the overheads and under seats, each using a trickle of electricity to maintain memory state?

That there are probably 80 or more cell phones in essentially the same state? Most modern cell and smart phones don't truly "shut off" since their operating systems have gotten so large and complex that there would be a serious acceptance factor for said new technology if the only option was to completely power down at takeoff and sit through the 2-3 minute boot up time after landing.

That even iPods operate in this fashion?

Never mind wristwatches (some of which actually qualify as full-blown computers, running the Linux operating system!), pacemakers, hearing aids, electronic neural stimulators for epilepsy, etc. aren't even in standby mode after the door is closed?

Seriously, 99.99% of the time, a Kindle turned ON produces no more electronic interference than a Kindle turned OFF, and far less than the GPS-enabled digital watch the athletic gentleman sitting in 1D is wearing.

So if the reason you're giving to turn eBook readers off is the same one you're NOT using to force people to completely power down all of the hardware listed above, you may want to rethink your position.

If it's the whole "we need your immediate attention in case of an emergency" spiel, you better be making sure that every passenger with a dead-tree book, newspaper or magazine puts THAT away until they've reached 10,000 feet, too.

Of course, venting my little diatribe while sitting at the gate will most likely get me ejected from the plane, so I'll do just what most other Kindle-readers do and close the cover when I see or hear you coming down the aisle.

Then open it again, and continue to enjoy reading my f%$#ing BOOK. :rolleyes:

This kind of post is very amusing to me. Why is it that most passengers think flight attendants are technologically challenged? I am one of the flight attendants who checks that they are turned off when the person still has their device out and obviously on way after the electronic device announcement was made.
Actually, judging from what I've read on the Kindle forums, many Kindle owners don't know how to completely shut off their Kindles either. Hell, the Zune has a goofy way of turning completely off and sometimes I forget how to do it and have to google it. These days many devices, including the Kindle, come with a sleep mode, which I suspect is what many passengers wind up using rather than completely shutting the power off.

Even the most technologically savvy FAs are looking to see if people are actively using a device, not checking every device to make sure that its powered off vs in sleep mode. And when it's in a cover, a Kindle - especially the Kindle 1 - looks very much like a book.

For those of you that get annoyed when an FA requests you turn your Kindle off, here's an idea that will, I suspect, get them to leave you alone . . . Warning: nerdy stuff below. It takes a little dedication to the Kindle cause to work through it. :D

On your personal computer, grab a screen capture (print screen) from a page of the on-line religious reference book of your choice. Bible, Koran, Torah, Necronomicon, Dianetics, doesn't matter. It needs to be an image, not a text file. Size it to 600x800 pixels to fit the kindle screen, then follow the instructions here (http://blogkindle.com/tag/screensaver/) to turn it into a screensaver for your Kindle.

Now, when a FA gives you a hard time about reading your kindle during take-off, simply press Alt-AA, look at him/her with quiet panic, state that you are a very nervous flyer and that the word of your deity calms you . . . and that you hope that the FA would not mind if you continued reading. If he/she still insists, increase your breathing rate, twitch, and otherwise develop more extreme signs of discomfort. Reduce your level of distress only when you glance down at the image on your Kindle display. Chances are, you'll be left alone at that point. You might even get a comforting pat on the arm ;)

When he/she leaves, press Alt-AA again and pick up where you left off :D

As two previous posters have mentioned, the Kindle does not require any power to keep an image on its screen. Therefore, it should not be included.

it does require power to move from page to page though, so, I guess reading that ONE page would be fine. Otherwise, it uses power and is "on"

Most modern cell and smart phones don't truly "shut off" since their operating systems have gotten so large and complex that there would be a serious acceptance factor for said new technology if the only option was to completely power down at takeoff and sit through the 2-3 minute boot up time after landing.

Uh, what? My phone takes a while to startup, but I still completely power it down for takeoff / landing. (I have no interest in using it in the air, so it usually stays off for the entire flight to save battery power.)

It is faster to just turn the radio off, sure, but that is not what the FAA regulations are asking you to do. If you want to ignore the rules, that's fine, but all phones allow you to follow the rules if you want to. Worse case, remove the battery. The phone will be completely powered off.

Anyway, the tone of your post indicates that you don't like the rules. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but saying that it's technically impossible to follow the rules is just plain wrong. Everyone can follow the rules if they want to. You just choose not to.

This kind of post is very amusing to me. Why is it that most passengers think flight attendants are technologically challenged? I am one of the flight attendants who checks that they are turned off when the person still has their device out and obviously on way after the electronic device announcement was made. I don't get it when people tell me they are off yet continue to text on their phones, type on their laptop, read their kindles, dial up the next song on their ipod....etc. Maybe you can help me understand what that's all about.

Sure :) I don't think anyone thinks the flight attendants are stupid. The reality is a cost/benefit sort of thing. The passenger wants to use his electronic device for the entire flight, and has convinced himself that doing that is probably not going to make the plane crash. Unfortunately, this desire conflicts with the law. So he has to decide; deprive himself of the electronic device, or violate the law.

This ends up being a pretty easy decision, though. If he uses the device and gets caught, he just gets a stern warning. If he doesn't get caught, then he gets what he wants. So there is really no downside to ignoring the rules, and there is a big upside for not following the rules. So people don't follow the rules.

If there was some actual punishment, then people would probably pay more attention to the rules.

(And FWIW, I have a Kindle, but I don't use it until the FA says it's allowed. I know it's an electronic device, and I know it's against the rules, and I don't want to get yelled at. So I just look out the window for 5 minutes. But I think I am nicer than many frequent flyers ;) )

Everyone can follow the rules if they want to. You just choose not to.
Tell that to the man with the pacemaker! :D

Uh, what? My phone takes a while to startup, but I still completely power it down for takeoff / landing. (I have no interest in using it in the air, so it usually stays off for the entire flight to save battery power.)

It is faster to just turn the radio off, sure, but that is not what the FAA regulations are asking you to do. If you want to ignore the rules, that's fine, but all phones allow you to follow the rules if you want to. Worse case, remove the battery. The phone will be completely powered off.

Anyway, the tone of your post indicates that you don't like the rules. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but saying that it's technically impossible to follow the rules is just plain wrong. Everyone can follow the rules if they want to. You just choose not to.

What I'm saying is that there are so many other devices on the plane in states that violate the rules that there's not much point having the rules in the first place. Those are "conveniently" ignored by flight attendants.

Blackberries, Windows Mobile phones, iPhones, Symbian devices, PalmOS and WebOS phones don't completely power off when you press the "Off" switch. However, pressing the "Off" switch is normally all it takes to satisfy an FA, so please tell me how a Kindle is any more a danger than any of those devices, on or off, nevermind the aforementioned laptops and other personal electronic devices previously listed that are for some reason exempt from a FA's attention.

As far as removing the battery to guarantee that a device is "off" is concerned, that might prove difficult without very specialized tools for some phones, particularly the iPhone. And it's no treat with most Blackberries, either.

Join the sheeple if you like; it's your choice. I prefer to use common sense coupled with a basic working knowledge of electronics.

Techically the FARs say turned off. I personally don't have an issue with a passenger using a Kindle during Take Off and Landing... unless your seated in an Exit Row. Keep in mind that almost all emergencies happen during TO/Landing, the most critical times of a flight... If I need you to help me evacuate the AC and your sitting in the Exit Row I don't need you distracted by your Kindle. So I'm going to ask that you turn if off and properly stow it in the overhead bin or in your bag under seat in front of you. (Your holding it on your lap doesn't count as stowed)

I understand that, but do you do the same with people reading a book?

I understand that, but do you do the same with people reading a book?


If you're in the exit row and my jumpseat is in front of you, your book has to be stowed to save my teeth.

FWIW: MY phone is always on. It's stowed though. That's the major point. You need to take your stuff and put it away for takeoff and landing.

FARs say everything off for takeoff and landing. FARs also say everything stowed. Stowed takes precedence over off because not stowed creates projectiles.

If your stuff is on and you don't blatantly have it out and about, who cares? If you have it on and you're actively working with the device, than you need to stop and put it away. When you are actively working on it while telling us it is off, it's irritating to the flight crew. Irritating the flight crew is not good for you.

When you're blatantly violating the rules you're creating trouble for yourself. The short period of taxi-takeoff or landing is not worth being a crybaby over. Is it?

For those of you that get annoyed when an FA requests you turn your Kindle off, here's an idea that will, I suspect, get them to leave you alone . . . Warning: nerdy stuff below. It takes a little dedication to the Kindle cause to work through it. :D

On your personal computer, grab a screen capture (print screen) from a page of the on-line religious reference book of your choice. Bible, Koran, Torah, Necronomicon, Dianetics, doesn't matter. It needs to be an image, not a text file. Size it to 600x800 pixels to fit the kindle screen, then follow the instructions here (http://blogkindle.com/tag/screensaver/) to turn it into a screensaver for your Kindle.

Now, when a FA gives you a hard time about reading your kindle during take-off, simply press Alt-AA, look at him/her with quiet panic, state that you are a very nervous flyer and that the word of your deity calms you . . . and that you hope that the FA would not mind if you continued reading. If he/she still insists, increase your breathing rate, twitch, and otherwise develop more extreme signs of discomfort. Reduce your level of distress only when you glance down at the image on your Kindle display. Chances are, you'll be left alone at that point. You might even get a comforting pat on the arm ;)

When he/she leaves, press Alt-AA again and pick up where you left off :D

The correct flight attendant response would be, "I'll call the captain and we can return to the gate and let you off". :cool:

The correct flight attendant response would be, "I'll call the captain and we can return to the gate and let you off". :cool:

My, my . . . that would create quite a public-relations issue if a passenger were to put that response to the test. While I haven't had any problems using my Kindle during take-off and landing, I just might take an FA up on the offer to return to the gate in such a situation . . . and you can bet I'd be calling every consumer advocate I can find.

CNN Breaking News: "AA Passenger Ejected from Flight for Bible-Reading."

I'd also bet the captain would be more than just a little annoyed to find out that an FA took it upon him/herself to deny a passenger the benefit of the soothing word of his deity during the most dangerous portions of the flight.

:cool:

Oh, and

:rolleyes:

If you're in the exit row and my jumpseat is in front of you, your book has to be stowed to save my teeth.

And for passengers not in the exit row? Are they required to stow their dead-tree books because of their projectile potential?

My Kindle is a fraction of the weight of the average JK Rowling or Steven King hardcover novel, and is far less effective in causing personal injury, regardless of the method employed.

FWIW: MY phone is always on. It's stowed though. That's the major point. You need to take your stuff and put it away for takeoff and landing.

Ah, I see. The "rules" don't apply to you, so no problem, right? :eek:

Techically the FARs say turned off. I personally don't have an issue with a passenger using a Kindle during Take Off and Landing... unless your seated in an Exit Row. Keep in mind that almost all emergencies happen during TO/Landing, the most critical times of a flight... If I need you to help me evacuate the AC and your sitting in the Exit Row I don't need you distracted by your Kindle. So I'm going to ask that you turn if off and properly stow it in the overhead bin or in your bag under seat in front of you. (Your holding it on your lap doesn't count as stowed)

Do you request that passengers in exit rows stow books/magazines/newspapers too? I'm guessing that you'll answer "no."

What, specifically, makes the Kindle (or any dedicated eBook reader) more of a distraction than any other type of reading material?

Tell that to the man with the pacemaker! :D

Actually David, Medical Devices are exempt from the FAR concerning PEDs

This was my thought too, but the rules can't keep up. So true. The hope and expectation of many is that early in 2010 Apple will be introducing their rumored "tablet" which will not only be a "Kindle on steroids" with hyperlinks to great multimedia content of interest to the subject matter but also a full fledged netbook, etc. At that time I guess the FA's would have to either refer to "the approved devices listing in the SkyMiles magazine" or where ever or specifically say NO to Kindles. However the new Tablets will arguably be smart phones on steroids with texting and e-mail capability. And reportedly some other vendors will have mini- tablets with 4" screens - not much larger than an iPhone. So when the FA's announce that cell
phones and other electronic devices may be used until the boarding door is closed but computers may not be used and must be stowed etc., how will they regard the new "tablets"?

Allan F

My, my . . . that would create quite a public-relations issue if a passenger were to put that response to the test. While I haven't had any problems using my Kindle during take-off and landing, I just might take an FA up on the offer to return to the gate in such a situation . . . and you can bet I'd be calling every consumer advocate I can find.

CNN Breaking News: "AA Passenger Ejected from Flight for Bible-Reading."

I'd also bet the captain would be more than just a little annoyed to find out that an FA took it upon him/herself to deny a passenger the benefit of the soothing word of his deity during the most dangerous portions of the flight.

:cool:

Oh, and

:rolleyes:


It wouldn't be your bible reading that would make you go back to the gate, it would be your twitching and heavy breathing that would do it.

If you weren't displaying signs of a panic attack or some other ailment, I would explain to you that your electronic device needed to be turned off and if you really needed to read the bible I would get you the one we had on board.

Do you request that passengers in exit rows stow books/magazines/newspapers too? I'm guessing that you'll answer "no."

What, specifically, makes the Kindle (or any dedicated eBook reader) more of a distraction than any other type of reading material?

Get it in your head that it is an electronic device and needs to be turned off and stowed and you'll be ok. A real book doesn't turn on and off.

BTW, The exit rows I'm talking about are those that are at door exits where the only seat in front of you is the FA jumpseat. I'm not talking about the window exits.

Get it in your head that it is an electronic device and needs to be turned off and stowed and you'll be ok. A real book doesn't turn on and off.

A Kindle is a "real book." It just isn't made out of dead trees. Perhaps you need to get it in your head that eBook readers are no more "on" than the many dozens of passengers' electronic devices on your aircraft that you conveniently ignore, not to mention your very own FAR-violating cell phone (which, by the way, generates levels of EMI orders of magnitude greater than any eBook*, and is therefore a far greater threat to the avionics of your aircraft**). Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.

BTW, The exit rows I'm talking about are those that are at door exits where the only seat in front of you is the FA jumpseat. I'm not talking about the window exits.

That I understand, and your specific concern with regard to unsecured objects as potential projectiles is valid. But the post to which I was responding wasn't in reference to that issue, it was flightattendantsteve's claim that eBooks are a distraction . . . apparently moreso than "conventional" (but no more "real") books. I asked him to justify his claim, but he has so far declined to do so.

* Some eBooks, notably the Kindle, are equipped with cellular radios for the browsing, ordering and downloading of books. The radio in mine is turned on only when I run out of reading material and need to obtain something new, then turned off again.

** I am in no way suggesting that cell phones are dangerous to aircraft avionics, but that is one justification that the FAA is using for their demand that all electronics be turned off for takeoff and landing, and cell radios be kept off during flight.

It wouldn't be your bible reading that would make you go back to the gate, it would be your twitching and heavy breathing that would do it.

I'd guess it wouldn't be my twitching and heavy breathing that would get you reprimanded, though. Trust me, that's not the issue the press would have a field day with . . .

If you weren't displaying signs of a panic attack or some other ailment, I would explain to you that your electronic device needed to be turned off and if you really needed to read the bible I would get you the one we had on board.

Do you carry a Qu'ran, Torah, Book of Mormon, etc? Perhaps my choice of the Christian Bible wasn't the best. I'll see what else I can dig up.

1. I love the argument that because other people do things they have been asked not to do, that it therefore is OK for them to do the same.

Thief to Police officer: I know there is a law against stealing, but I see reports of thefts every day, so that means other people are doing it.

2. To those who say that the kindle uses no power once the E-Ink is set, the question I have is: How long do you read the same page? I presume that the kindle uses power every time you change the page. (note: this question is not related to aircraft safety - just interested in the technology)

3. Can anyone point to a scientific study or combination of studies in independent literature (as opposed to anecdotal or manufacturer's evidence) which demonstrates that the amount of EMF emitted by a Kindle poses no danger to aircraft? Even if I personally believe it to be true, and I do, I would prefer to see more than references to anecdotes like "laptops left in standby mode don't seem to affect aircraft". I know that there are some scientists on FT, has anyone used science to prove this point?

Maybe some people just don't believe in mindlessly following rules because they are told to? Instead they want to understand the logic behind them? In the case of the of the electronic rules there is not much logic behind them unless you are flying in some ancient aircraft with absolutely no shielding of electronic components... Protip, turn your cell phone off in an vintage Piper Cub... :)

Yeah, well I'm not aware of any planes going down because of people smoking in the bathroom, but I'll follow the rules anyway, even if I feel there isn't any risk involved or such rules don't make sense in my mind.

I don't always agree with the rules on the planes either, but until I'm willing to just take Greyhound or fly NetJet all the time, I'll play by their rules.

(note: I'm not really a smoker, just snarky)

<MOD>
OK, folks. Enough.

We all know the rules. They don't always make sense, but until we are in a position that permits writing them we're stuck with them.

No more of the attacks or the snarkiness. It isn't helpful to the community here and certainly doesn't help with the discussion at hand.
</MOD>

<MOD>
I tried. Y'all failed. The party is over.
</MOD>