Spain/Portugal/Gibraltar - First Time to Spain Itinerary

Hello all, my wife and I are looking at a 2-week trip to Spain for our 1 yr anniversary. We are really into Wines, having had our wedding at a winery in Southern California and spending a week in Chile/Argentina Wine Country.

This is what I've put together based on information here and else where. I am SPG Platinum and have quite a few points, hense the lean towards SPG hotels. Please let me know what you think, if you have any additional ideas or thoughts. Spend more or less time in a location, transportation, etc. Thanks!
Dave

Day 1 - Fly to Madrid
Day 2 - Madrid - Check out city and museums - Westin Palace
Day 3 - Madrid - Museums, wine tasting, dining - Westin Palace
Day 4 - Madrid - Bullfighting, dining - Westin Palace
Day 5 - Train to Bilbao - Check out the city - Sheraton Bilbao
Day 6 - Rent Car, drive to San Sebastion - dining - Hotel Maria Cristina
Day 7 - San Sebastion - check out the city, dining - Hotel Maria Cristina
Day 8 - Drive to La Rioja Wine Region - Wine tasting/touring - Marques de Riscal
Day 9 - La Rioja - Wine tasting/touring - Marques de Riscal
Day 10 - Drive to Bilbao, Fly to Barcelona - Le Meridien (or W)
Day 11 - Barcelona - Check out city, museums ,dining - Le Meridien (or W)
Day 12 - Rent Car, drive to Priorat, Wine Tasting/touring, drive back to Le Meridien Ra Beach Hotel and Resort
Day 13 -Enjoy the Beach - Le Meridien Ra
Day 14 - Drive back to Barcelona, Fly home

Looks like a cool trip. Good to have wheels to roam around the wine country.

Any reason you skip Toledo?

Why mention just Toledo? Why not add, for example, Salamanca or Avila?

Spain is crammed with interesting cities and it's impossible to see them all during a typical stay.

I think I'd remove about 60% of what's in that itinerary. You're going to spend two weeks driving. Spain is not a country best enjoyed by checking "must see" items off of a list.

alanw, what would you recommend for a 2 week trip? We are really interested in wine country and as mentioned below, i think you need wheels for wine country. We'd only be driving 5 days in La Roija region and then 2 days in Priorat area. So thats half the trip in big cities without a car and then half with a car in rural areas.

Well if it were me I'd cut out the Madrid portion I think. It's just not that interesting of a city, largely the same as many other large European cities. Aside from museums, it's kind of eh. Note that Bullfights don't happen every day, nor all year, and less so in Madrid than in the south.

If you want to see wine country, I think your plan to take a train to Basque country is a good one. Note that there is no AVE to Bilbao, so you're going to burn the better part of a day getting to/from the stations and traveling - figure if you take the early train you're going to be to your hotel around 4PM. That doesn't leave a lot of time for the sights, which in this case is the museum that closes at 8. So plan another day, rent a car and go to San Sebastian for the food and history. I noticed you have Le Meridien Ra on your list - if you guys like spas like that, San Sebastian has an amazing one on the beach called La Perla. It's worth an afternoon.

Then you can drive down to La Rioja, spend a couple of days touring around there, and then drive on to the Penedès wine region, another famous one, as well as the home of cava. There are some artisanal cava makers you can visit (like Rimarts) that have interesting tours, as well as the big operations like Freixenet and Codorniu.

After that of course a few days in Barcelona. There's plenty to do here, in terms of things to see (the tourist bus is actually a great way to get acquainted with the city) as well as just doing nothing, walking around, having drinks and tapas at sidewalk cafés, etc. This is the only way to soak up any culture - not running from tourist site to tourist site.

I'd probably give the Le Meridien Ra a miss unless you're just dying to spend your points there. It's about 30 minutes from my house, and we stayed there once. It is nothing special - the spa is tiny and the hotel itself, while built around a historic building, looks and feels like a hospital. We actually took a couple of photos of the hallways, commenting that it had to be the least-welcoming hotel we'd ever seen. What's more, the hotel isn't really close to anything and the town it's in is mostly covered up with ugly Franco-era "no building codes" monstrosities. There are a couple of other really good spas in the Barcelona area if that's part of the attraction - a beautiful new one right in the city called Aire de Barcelona, and about an hour north there's Magma in Santa Coloma de Farners. Both are worth a visit.

I think that's enough for two weeks, frankly. If you wanted to add on a couple more days' worth of places, though, you can head up north to Cadaquès and see Dalì's house and the museum in Figures, which is on the way. Or head down to Tarragona to see some of the Roman ruins.

Thanks Alan, that helps, it's the whole reason I posted here.

Well if it were me I'd cut out the Madrid portion I think. It's just not that interesting of a city, largely the same as many other large European cities. Aside from museums, it's kind of eh.

A second on Madrid not being the most exciting place. If you're an art person, The Prado is cool. My wife and I did Spain--in the opposite direction--for our first anniversary too. We spent about a day in Madrid, and that was plenty to our taste.

alanw's advice is better than what I would have come up with, but I would like to expand on it.

I agree that, in your case, Barcelona would be better for a few days of sightseeing than Madrid. However, I certainly don't see Madrid as being any kind of 'eh', it's just that, for me, the compelling charms of the city are mostly social - if you know people there, particularly if those people are good friends, Madrid has an awful lot going for it.
But I also wondered how you'd factored a Bullfight into 'day X', my assumption would have been that you knew exactly which event you wanted to see. As has been mentioned, a bullfight is not a daily occurrence (and those that are really, really need to be avoided - IMO bullfighting should be seen at the highest standard or not at all; I consider the tourist/entertainment shows to be barbaric).

If you do decide to visit Tarragona, how about staying in one of Spain's atmospheric and beautiful Paradores? The Tortosa Parador is a little further down the coast but well worth an overnight stay
http://www.parador.es/en/cargarFichaParador.do?parador=083

so where is the ideal place to see a bullfight?

I'll chime in Third on Madrid not being all that interesting of a city. I much prefer seeing the smaller cities in the area, like Avila, Toledo, Segovia. The Madrid museums are great, though, if you are looking for that.

And, in my mind, worth stopping in to the Museo de Ejercito (military museum) just to see El Cid's sword from vanquishing the Moors from Toledo in the 11th century.

Also, if you wanted other ideas, you might consider Sevilla (which I also think is the best place to see a bull fight, other than perhaps Ronda). Sevilla is a great, interesting city, lots to do and see, and reachable from Madrid via the high speed train.

Agree that Sevilla is a great destination; I left it off my itinerary above because it's in the opposite direction of everything else on the OP's list.

Since everybody is talking down Madrid here I will have to be the voice of dissent. It is a very interesting city, and perhaps the most Spanish of all cities in Spain: Hardly anybody is actually from Madrid, they are all from Catalonia, Valencia, Extremadura, etc., giving the city a unique blend of Spanish regional impulses.

The museums (and shopping) are fabolous and the culture likewise, even though I think the atmosphere is not quite as laid back and pleasurable as it was a few years ago. Plenty of really good restaurant.

And the one city I would add to the itinerary is Valencia: Easily the most agreeable people in Spain, fantastic architecture, great beach, etc. etc. Not so good for wine and food, though.

so where is the ideal place to see a bullfight?
Wherever your favourite bullfighters are.
My view is one should educate oneself on bullfighting before going to a fight, for those who don't it is just a meaningless, sadistic spectacle. For those who can't be bothered to do some research, go and see a football match and soak up the atmosphere there instead.

Since everybody is talking down Madrid here
Not everybody. I love Madrid and am happy to go back at every opportunity. But for a first time visitor with no links or friends in either city and having to choose whether to spend time in one or the other, then my suggestion is Barcelona.
And the one city I would add to the itinerary is Valencia: Easily the most agreeable people in Spain, fantastic architecture, great beach, etc. etc. Not so good for wine and food, though.
(bolding mine)
Absolute nonsense! Plenty of amazing places in, and particularly around Valencia to eat.
Some suggestions on where to find some of the region's infamous (and even in Valencia, rather elusive) great rice/arroz dishes on this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/europe/840353-paella-thread.html
Not a destination I'd be pushing onto the OP though, xtremeflyer already has a fine itinerary based on personal tastes and it will be challenging enough to trim and hone it as it is without adding yet more cities.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.. I guess we wanted to do a bullfight to do a bullfight.. We certainly aren't "hard up" to do it, so maybe we'll just skip it all together. Sounds like we should cut a day out of Madrid and add a day in Barcelona, which i'm happy to do. I'll definitely look into a bunch of other cities that are being recommended before coming up with a final itinerary.

Thanks again!
~Dave

Absolute nonsense! Plenty of amazing places in, and particularly around Valencia to eat.

Sorry, but apart from Paella, Valencia doesn't have much by way of food, and anyone familiar with the Spanish gastronomic scene knows this. The wines are awfull, and apart from Ca Sento none of Spain's great restaurants are located here.

Sorry, but apart from Paella, Valencia doesn't have much by way of food, and anyone familiar with the Spanish gastronomic scene knows this. The wines are awfull, and apart from Ca Sento none of Spain's great restaurants are located here.

I'm curious now - would you say the same thing about Murcia?

EDIT - And just had a quick look to see how La Sucursal was faring lately http://www.restaurantelasucursal.com/ the sommelier there has just won national recognition as best in the country from the Spanish Royal Academy of Gastronomy - the restaurant is already well known and prized for its innovative techniques.

The Restaurante Riff (http://www.restaurante-riff.com/riff_02.html) isn't up to much either, neither is Oscar Torrijos (http://www.restauranteoscartorrijos.com/) well regarded and nobody has anything good to say about Restaurante Vertical (http://www.restaurantevertical.com/) :p
But then anyone familiar with the Spanish gastronomic scene knows this.
Of course, if the food is just too awful to contemplate in Valencia itself, there's always El Poblet in Denia, less than 50 miles away (and less than half the distance and many times as easy to get to as El Bulli is from Barcelona)

There's no danger of going hungry in Valencia, but the OP is "really into Wines", and I stand by my comment that Valencia is not so good for wine and food. Especially for somebody who seems to plan his trip in great part around just those two experiences, there are better places in Spain to visit.

Valencia is much better for home cooking :D Mercado central is well worth a visit, even for tourists.

There's no danger of going hungry in Valencia, but the OP is "really into Wines", and I stand by my comment that Valencia is not so good for wine and food. Especially for somebody who seems to plan his trip in great part around just those two experiences, there are better places in Spain to visit.

You’re welcome to your opinion, just please don’t try to fob it off as ‘common knowledge’. If you are basing your opinion on the amount of Michelin stars garnered, at least ensure that the information is up to date.

Ignoring the food side, I can't fathom any reason why anyone interested in wine would want to enjoy a meal with the Sommelier currently ranked as Spain's best...

EDIT - just read a very interesting - and pertinent - interview with Joel Robuchon who says he'd rather have flame grilled rabbit in pretty much any of Calpe's restaurants (a seaside town just to the South of Denia) than a meal in a lauded 3 star joint and names Nou Manolín in Alicante as perhaps his favourite place for tapas (particularly the red prawns). One of his favourite meals is the paella at Paco Gandía in El Pinoso which he considers to be the world's best and impossible to compete with (he mentions that he'd rather have this also than a classic 3 M star meal)
SOURCE (http://www.abc.es/hemeroteca/historico-22-11-2008/abc/ABC2/j%C3%B6el-robuchon-dentro-de-dos-a%C3%B1os-hare-cocina-popular-barata-y-con-cosas-nuevas_911434347586.html)
Sure, it isn't the centre of Valencia, but it's extremely gratifying to see my little corner of Spain finally getting some recognition :)

You’re welcome to your opinion, just please don’t try to fob it off as ‘common knowledge’.

That's perfectly all right if you will stop calling other people's opinions "absolute nonsense".

And the one city I would add to the itinerary is Valencia: Easily the most agreeable people in Spain, fantastic architecture, great beach, etc. etc. Not so good for wine and food, though.
Tip - saying that Valencia has fantastic architecture and a great beach and then saying that it isn't so good for food and wine doesn't sound like a personal opinion. Something you only then confirmed with "apart from Paella, Valencia doesn't have much by way of food, and anyone familiar with the Spanish gastronomic scene knows this".

Anything erroneous portrayed as 'fact' is fair game for shooting down in the FT forums.

Excellent articles on food from the region (http://www.verema.com/blog/gerrydawes/labels/Paella) (scroll down for text version)

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:rolleyes: "right there"? Right where? It may come as a surprise but bullfights do not happen every day nor in every town, and certainly not in the places where the OP is spending most of his time.

Seeing one without knowing why (checking it off a list isn't a valid reason IMO) seems to me like a waste of time and money.

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After spending a few days in Barcelona, we are planning to drivie to Priorar. We have made reservations at the Mirador de siurana which sounds lovely considering we are from New York. I am however concerned about our ability to drive up the mountain to Siurana. Is this dangerous for someone used to driving on the US highways. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thansk!