Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - FA treats award passengers differently?

I know this is probably subjective and doesn't reflect the entire CX crew. Maybe cxcabincrew can give his honest answer. But my friend just told me an interesting story.

Like I said he's rich so recently he book a J ticket flight LAX-HKG-LAX. He uses his miles to get his friend an award J ticket. They sit right next to each other. However, throughout the trip he (paid full fare) got great treatment from the FA, but the award ticket friend got cold treatment from the same FA (not horrible, but just cold.)

Don't know if knowing the status of the passenger alters the quality of the service, and I recognize this is probably subjective to individual and doesn't speak about the business practice of CX (I hope)

Service is a relatively subjective thing - it really depends on what your expectations are. You didn't explain the details of the "cold" treatment, so it is difficult to say what went wrong.

But most importantly, I don't think F/As see fares class/award tickets on their manifest (correct me if I am wrong). They only see things like status and whether op-up or not. So if that is true, that award passengers are not treated differently. Only op-up or non-rev would probably be treated a little differently.

I would imagine if OP's friend flies paid J on CX all the time, he probably has pretty good elite status with CX. Perhaps that's the reasoning behind the nice treatments that are above and beyond what's typically provided?! Just speculation on my part, though.

LAX

But most importantly, I don't think F/As see fares class/award tickets on their manifest (correct me if I am wrong). They only see things like status and whether op-up or not. So if that is true, that award passengers are not treated differently. Only op-up or non-rev would probably be treated a little differently.

For award passengers will mark AM on the list.

Are you referring to the seating chart? I believe AM denotes Asia Miles instead of an award passenger. Similar acronyms - DM for Diamond, EMRD for other OW Emeralds etc...

I've never had different treatment because I'm travelling on an award or as an op-up.

I was on an op-up to F, and felt like the SP and ISM were treating me not as well as the others. It felt like they were going to the people on the D/K side asking about their comfort, whether they needed anything, etc, but not me (2A) and the person in front of me (1A) (77A)

I often use my points to upgrade. I know what the OP is talking about, but I would have to say that I have had no proof of that. Yes, sometimes I have perceived a 'coolness', but probably read too much into it, particularly as on other flights have been treated royally. I'd have to say to the OP that I would be surprised if it were true.

-deletion of account-

Just for information sake ..thanks cxcabincrew, this is helpful. just 2 points here:

if I remember right I did see something like "UPGR" or sth next to my name on the PIL when I used miles to upgrade one time...so do you mean this is in fact not true ? you cannot see that I used miles to upgrade, or that I'm using a full mileage redemption award ?
how do I request my Cantonese, Mandarin, etc language preference ? I just checked my online profile again and it seems I can only specify "Preferred Written Language". because, this actually quite bothers me quite often when some local HK cabin crew keeps talking to me in English although I talked to them in Cantonese/Mandarin (and not that I don't speak these languages well enough). in particular, I think for many of them their Chinese is better than their English, so I really don't understand why they cannot talk to me in Chinese...

how do I request my Cantonese, Mandarin, etc language preference ? I just checked my online profile again and it seems I can only specify "Preferred Written Language". because, this actually quite bothers me quite often when some local HK cabin crew keeps talking to me in English although I talked to them in Cantonese/Mandarin (and not that I don't speak these languages well enough). in particular, I think for many of them their Chinese is better than their English, so I really don't understand why they cannot talk to me in Chinese...[/LIST]

For me, the cabin crew always speak to me in Chinese first, but because I can't speak Chinese well at all, I just say to them, do you mind speaking in English, and then it's English all the way...

if I remember right I did see something like "UPGR" or sth next to my name on the PIL when I used miles to upgrade one time...so do you mean this is in fact not true ? you cannot see that I used miles to upgrade, or that I'm using a full mileage redemption award ?

There are no mentions of upgrade or award on the PIL, only Name, CX/OW status and language.

I've never had different treatment because I'm travelling on an award or as an op-up.

From what I understand, there should be one difference - that the op-uped are asked last for their meal choice, which is understandable. Other than that, all is the same as other passengers.

No indication of mileage-upgrade pax AFAIK, only op-up pax are indicated as 'INVOLUNTARY UPGRADE" or something like that.

From what I understand, there should be one difference - that the op-uped are asked last for their meal choice, which is understandable. Other than that, all is the same as other passengers.

No indication of mileage-upgrade pax AFAIK, only op-up pax are indicated as 'INVOLUNTARY UPGRADE" or something like that.

If that's really the case, then I've never been made to feel that is the case. And I'm pretty sure that I've never been asked for my meal choice out of order. In J class, the main meals are served on a trolley, and they don't do an aisle dance skipping people as they go past, like they do on some airlines.

-deletion of account-

Thank you cxcabincrew. :-:


Sec. 4 - All F & J Class, Top Tier in Y Class
- All top tier CX-MPO and oneworld members

Does "top tier" mean DM/EMRD only or does it also include GO/SL/SAPH/RUBY? The reason I am asking is that I have only been occasionally greeted (~30%) by the ISM and/or section leader when I was a GO, but now as a DM I am greeted on all flights.

- Special information for CX MPO top tier passengers such as special preferences, special occasions, inbound and outbound connecting flights
What kind of of "special preferences" may these be? Could you please give some examples?

UGSA - Upgrade due to seat availability; MCO - Misc Charge Order for upgrade.
Could anyone shed some light as to what these two actually means?

For most cabin crew, the different ways in how a passenger is upgraded is not common knowledge or considered to be very important. All we really pay attention to is who was upgraded for when in extreme circumstances we have to approach that passenger and request something out of the ordinary.
That's good to hear. ^

UGSA - Upgrade due to seat availability; MCO - Misc Charge Order for upgrade.
Could anyone shed some light as to what these two actually means?


Should this be upgrade vouchers (from previous invol downgrade, or other reasons etc), upgrade by paying nominal amount (as opposed to fare difference), or using MCO(Those old style vouchers that look like the hand written tickets) as means to pay?

-deletion of account-

there's still a mystery I had in mind, for a mid-haul flight I took last year, HKG-DXB or something like that.

I was in J, and it's roughly 25/30 full. I had my DM number in record. I was in aisle seat in first row, D seat. I was on a paid full J ticket, not discount, not RTW, no upgrade, not redemption. I didn't fall asleep any time before and during the meal service. I had my appetizer etc together with the rest of the cabin. BUT, when the FA came to me, she said my preferred meal choice ran out already (one out of the three choices), and asked me to pick the other two. since the other two were not good at all when I read / saw them (not very sure, but I think something like, one is lamb and one is vege pasta - while I almost always have meat with rice, and I don't eat lamb), I said I would just have to skip it. and, unlikely crew in other flights who's usually much more proactive and helpful - the service really just stopped there. they didn't offer to find anything else in Y or F, not cup noodles, not other snacks, etc - nothing more.

when I came back I wrote to Customer Service and asked what I could have done better to ensure a better meal choice priority. they just sent back the generic (and completely useless) reply - saying that meal choice is always not guaranteed, they cannot load enough of each to meet everyone's demand, sorry that it didn't meet my expectation this time, hope I would have a better experience next time, etc. when I wrote back again and said it's frankly very disappointing for a DM traveling on full-J ticket and specifically picking a first row seat to ensure my meal choice, and what really I could have done to ensure this does not happen again next time - they didn't reply at all anymore. (frankly I never think CX's Customer Service is any good at all - took long time to reply and yet came back with way too generic replies always, never understood why it took them so long)

anyway, cxcabincrew, just wondering what you think might have happened on that flight ? frankly this was among my worst experience in these last few years...

As for StarG's comment about being asked last during the meal service for their meal choice, that should never be the case. We have a very specific way and pattern in which the meal choices are offered. We will always try to aim to ensure that our card members have their first choice (usually DMs and GO; depending the cabin loading and the ratio of card members). The main reason one would not have their first choice available is primarily based on where they are seated in the cabin and the other passengers we have on board.

Interesting to hear about the actual formal procedure re the meal choice. I was told the information by the SPs on my flights, but I guess they may be wrong.

Thanks for the informative posts so far, cxcabincrew. ^

In J class, the main meals are served on a trolley, and they don't do an aisle dance skipping people as they go past, like they do on some airlines.

You are right, I don't recall having seen the zigzag dance in J class - I have only seen it in F.

From what I understand, there should be one difference - that the op-uped are asked last for their meal choice, which is understandable. Other than that, all is the same as other passengers.

I've been op-up recently on a number of occasions and don't usually have a problem with the meal choice. On the one occasion where I did have a problem on an op-up flight (due to dietary restriction, not simply personal preference), SP suggested that she would get me something suitable from F instead (her suggestion, not mine, I just said I'd skip the main).

..

As someone who generally travels in YCL and flips between GO and SL based on my travel patterns (I can usually do about 40-50K per year, sometimes more and sometimes less), I have to say that the inflight greeting in YCL by ISM/SP/FP is pretty rare. It's happened before on some occasions but never with any regularity (probably happens less than 50%) so I'm surprised to hear that it should happen with regularity based on the guidelines you mention.

Ditto. I'd do a similar amount of miles and in 9 years have never been greeted, not that I particularly care.

Sort of OT on the CX forum:

I don't know about CX, but on OZ (Asiana Airlines), the passenger's booking class is actually listed on the Passenger Information List (PIL)!!

In addition to frequent flyer status, there is a two letter notation.

For example:

OF = Booking Class "O" in F Cabin = Award/Upgrade F with miles
AF = Booking Class "A" in F Cabin = Discount First/RTW
FF = Booking Class "F" in F Cabin = Full fare F

IC = Booking Class "I" in C Cabin = Award/Upgrade C with miles
CC = Booking Class "C" in C" Cabin = Full C

I guess you can guess what the following codes mean:

YY
BY
HY
KY
MY
LY

:D

Note: These codes are also printed on the bottom right hand corner Asiana's boarding passes (but in reverse order). For example, "IC" becomes "CI".

I would assume that normally the flight attendant won't know what these codes mean unless they have previously worked on the ground in reservations/ticketing or at a travel agency.

I was in aisle seat in first row, D seat. ... I had my appetizer etc together with the rest of the cabin. BUT, when the FA came to me, she said my preferred meal choice ran out already (one out of the three choices), and asked me to pick the other two. they didn't offer to find anything else in Y or F, not cup noodles, not other snacks, etc - nothing more.


Seating in first row doesn't mean you will get served first, they sometimes start serving from the last row. But I am surprise they don't offer you other choices. Maybe they misunderstood your "skip it" and thought you want to skip the whole meal instead of just the main course? Anyway you could have ask for a noodle/sandwich/snack/etc even if they're not smart enough to offer you.

On my recent flights, I've noticed they have also put the light meals (noodles and sandwich) on the trolley for people to pick.

[QUOTE=cxcabincrew;11872245..If time permits, the ISM should also personally greet the passengers during the flight.
[/QUOTE]

When I was Silver and travel on Y, I dont remember being greeted (except for once the FA came with the annoying questionaire). I can't remember if I've been greeted when I got op-uped though. At least not on the more recent trip to KIX.

From my experience traveling in J on an UPGA "Upgrade with Appreciation Card" from YVR-HKG, I was greeted by my last name while the FA handed out the menus but I saw he was going down a passenger list looking for my name to greet me with haha :rolleyes: keep in mind that i didn't have any status other than the normal Asiamiles. However, i did see the ISM going around talking to some passengers and skipped me hahah but whatever, i was able to get the meal choice i wanted so it was all good

On a side note: i'll be traveling YVR-HKG in J on award redemption using my BA miles and then the reverse in F also using miles so it would be interesting to see how they would treat me haha and hopefully my confirmed seat right now doesn't get changed when i check in

From my experience traveling in J on an UPGA "Upgrade with Appreciation Card" from YVR-HKG
What's an appreciation card?

From my experience traveling in J on an UPGA "Upgrade with Appreciation Card" from YVR-HKG, I was greeted by my last name while the FA handed out the menus but I saw he was going down a passenger list looking for my name to greet me with haha :rolleyes: keep in mind that i didn't have any status other than the normal Asiamiles. However, i did see the ISM going around talking to some passengers and skipped me hahah but whatever, i was able to get the meal choice i wanted so it was all good

On a side note: i'll be traveling YVR-HKG in J on award redemption using my BA miles and then the reverse in F also using miles so it would be interesting to see how they would treat me haha and hopefully my confirmed seat right now doesn't get changed when i check in

Well if you don't have CX or OW status, then the ISM probably won't greet you separately.

What's an appreciation card?

the appreciation card entitled me the following:
1) a single sector one class upgrade on any flight operated by CX
2) one free invitation to lounge access
3) an extra single 10kg piece of checked-in luggage
they can be use separately but depends on availability and only for flights operated by CX. expires in one year, my name was printed on it so nobody could use it other than me. i find it pretty smart on CX's part because i did end up buying a Y class ticket the following year haha

so here is how i got it: i was doing my usually summer trip back to hk and when i arrived at the airport to check-in on my returning flight from HKG-YVR, they informed me that the flight was pretty full due to it being oversold so i was asked to wait until an hour or so before the flight leaves to return to the check-in desk......so i returned to the check-in desk and they told me that i was moved to another flight on the next day and so i was given some cash and that appreciation card for compensation...i was traveling in Y btw, if that makes any difference:D i was pretty surprised that i got chosen but i guess it was mainly because i was traveling alone and didn't require a hotel to stay in so they offered me some cash instead

Well if you don't have CX or OW status, then the ISM probably won't greet you separately.

yeah i was aware of that so i didn't mind it at all ;)

Actually it depend on individual FA attitute, 1 may treat you cold but the others may not.
So what actually happened?? Only 1 or a few FA treated him cold or the whole crew ?

On a side note: i'll be traveling YVR-HKG in J on award redemption using my BA miles and then the reverse in F also using miles so it would be interesting to see how they would treat me haha and hopefully my confirmed seat right now doesn't get changed when i check in

I'll be doing YVR-HKG this month too.
When will you be flying ???

A little further thought on these codes...

..
I've had I on my BP when I was op-upped and V when I actually paid the fare difference. When travelling on mileage upgrades (and this includes instant ODUs), I've never had R on my BP. Has anyone ever had any codes other than I and V on their BPs?

I'll be doing YVR-HKG this month too.
When will you be flying ???

im on the cx889, midnight flight on the 77A so i don't think your on the same one since i've see you have been asking about the CX839 which will operate on the 34D :o

I also got offered these appreciation cards once at the gate in HKG, before a flight HKG-KIX. my wife and I arrived at the gate slightly early and was sitting there, a few minutes before boarding.

a CX ground agent then approached us and asked if we are willing to move to the afternoon flight instead (I assume it's because of a full flight), and we'll get in return business class seats (supposedly an upgrade from Y I guess) for the afternoon flight and "A cards" (I think this is what she called it, if I remember right, but we didn't ask further what this is - I assume this is the appreciation cards we're talking here).

But, then I told her we're actually in F already - it doesn't make sense for us to move to the afternoon one which is 2-class. I was also quite surprised why they're asking for volunteers soooo late, at the gate ?

I've had a similar experience to yours, tedhl. I was flying HKG-LHR, and they were asking people to VDB at the gate. An agent approached me and I was offered an "A card" - to which I replied to by showing him my red BP (still miss those a lot...)!

Those were the days when they overbook heavily and relied on no-shows. I don't know if it is dependent on the route, but I'm guessing that they're overbooking much less than before when I wasn't op-upped a couple of apparently sold out flights.

I've had I on my BP when I was op-upped and V when I actually paid the fare difference. When travelling on mileage upgrades (and this includes instant ODUs), I've never had R on my BP. Has anyone ever had any codes other than I and V on their BPs?

Where is this code printed on the boarding pass? :confused:
I didn't see any special codes on my miles-upgrade flights (J to F).

I'm pretty sure only I will print on the boarding pass for op-ups. There is no code on the boarding pass for mileage upgrades.

Well, R actually can appear on a BP (albeit this is the 1st gen new BPs):

http://images.fotop.net/albums/ka808/diary/R0010102.jpg
Picture courtesy HKADB (http://www.hkadb.com/forum/index.php)

Not that I'd like it on my BP, but I guess CX removed it so as not to distinguish pax who's upgraded with miles.

StarG, these codes are printed above the departure time on the current BPs.

Ah okay, thanks. :)
Definitely no codes on mine so far. My last op-up was a long time ago and just had the original seat number crossed and new one handwritten.

I know this is probably subjective and doesn't reflect the entire CX crew. Maybe cxcabincrew can give his honest answer. But my friend just told me an interesting story.

Like I said he's rich so recently he book a J ticket flight LAX-HKG-LAX. He uses his miles to get his friend an award J ticket. They sit right next to each other. However, throughout the trip he (paid full fare) got great treatment from the FA, but the award ticket friend got cold treatment from the same FA (not horrible, but just cold.)

I am so Poor and I travelled CX on award as well and I have no status with CX and I was treated very well indeed and even given free membership to the Marco Polo club. This thread is about hit and miss service and not about being rich or travelling on an award ticket!

I'm pretty sure only I will print on the boarding pass for op-ups. There is no code on the boarding pass for mileage upgrades.

I had V on my BP before. Someone else had another letter (M?) before.

im on the cx889, midnight flight on the 77A so i don't think your on the same one since i've see you have been asking about the CX839 which will operate on the 34D :o

Yup,thats right im on 839 and i hope they will change to 77A as on CX website, they wrote Aircraft = EQV no longer 34D

I believe there's also D for ID tickets.

I've been op-upped Y to J, and flown in J on miles recently. On all occassions I could not detect any difference in service. If anything I felt that I was treated better than my fellow passengers !

I seem to get greeted by name by ISM on nearly every flight, even when I travel in Y.

I know that there are many more experienced members than me posting here, but in my experience CX service far exceeds that offered by BA, regardless of class flown.

Ying.

I am so Poor and I travelled CX on award as well and I have no status with CX and I was treated very well indeed and even given free membership to the Marco Polo club. This thread is about hit and miss service and not about being rich or travelling on an award ticket!

Were you traveling in F or J or Y, and who offered you the MPC membership? Just wonder if I will get the same in my upcoming CX reward trip (redeemed from AS.):p Not that I can't afford it, but we are all FTer.

For PIL purposes, ..

I bet CX's competitors, such as SQ, are very appreciative to get such detailed information from CX staff.

I bet CX's competitors, such as SQ, are very appreciative to get such detailed information from CX staff.

They can get the same information by flying onboard CX and experiencing the service.

I bet CX's competitors, such as SQ, are very appreciative to get such detailed information from CX staff.
Competition is a good thing, isn't it?

The input by cxcabincrew is highly appreciated by the regulars on the CX board. :-: ^

I bet CX's competitors, such as SQ, are very appreciative to get such detailed information from CX staff.

Geez, like they wouldn't know already? Corporations actively compare with each other and level of service and procedures. Most of it are open information.

If SG has to resort to flyertalk.com for information they are really pathetic

-deletion of account-

To Whom It May Concern:

It has come to my attention that the information I am providing could be used other than its intended purpose and therefore I am looking for information on how to delete my postings and account from FlyerTalk. After reviewing my company guidelines, and comments made, I feel it is my best interest to delete my account and any posting I may have made.

I apologize for the inconvenience. Please let me know how I might go about doing this (I have tried to contact GuyBetsy and also FlyerTalk Support with no avail).

Thank you for your time, I look forward to meeting you in the sky.

cxcabincrew

Great, now we lost a valuable insider source of information.

I urge the moderators to delete the other poster's account too on his smart comments that forces cxcabincrew to leave

Great.. a user that posted just one time managed to ruin the flow and all the useful information that was really helping all of us right here. I knew it was going to spell trouble and reported "bad/misplaced post" immediately as soon as I saw AUS_69's post.

To cxcabincrew, you already made a disclaimer in your post, so I urge you to please reconsider your stance. What you provided was not sensitive information at all, and it was actually very useful to many of us here. If you go look at other forums on flyertalk, notably CO/DL/UA, there are so many threads with official insiders giving out information, and there is even a F/A Q&A thread that is so interesting and useful. There really is nothing to worry about and you shouldn't be offended by what one person said, which was obviously nonconstructive, and disrupted the flow/tone of the forum.

cxcabincrew had contacted me to ask me to remove his/her account. But that cannot be done. I have added that though the member has contributed to the CX forum immensely, he/she has posted sensitive information that contravenes CX's terms of employment (according to another FTer who is also a cabin crew). It is a well known fact that CX personnel routinely surfs this forum, and if needed they can trace to who is the person behind these posts.

I have edited the quotes from the info cxcabincrew has already posted but have asked member to reconsider staying on here as his/her views will solely be his/her own and will not breaking any rules.

The mysterious poster might have very well saved this FT member's job in certain respect.

Please keep your comments on this subect to a bear minimum if possible unless it is about what the title is otherwise I might as well just lock this thread.

Regards

Guy Betsy
Cathay Pacific Asiamiles forum moderator

This isnt good....

Perhaps, my comments should be viewed about business comunication in general.

One of the greatest functions of a board like this is that helpful information can be provided to stakeholders who do have an interest in CX, many of whom fly regularly with the airline, and thus are important sources of revenue. Mostly this information comes from fellow travellers. However, when it does come from someone who has a better knowledge of practices and procedures, then this is helpful in creating a better and more honest understanding of topics that can get out of hand.

-deletion of account-

:(

to cxcabincrew

We will greatly miss your presence on this forum.


If anything, your help here encouraged me to fly with CX. I hope the higher-ups will realize that allowing some interaction with flyers will only increase sales.

to cxcabincrew
Thank you for your helpful insight and putting in the time to answer very detailed questions to enhance our on board experience and better understand the system from another point of view. I hope as most of us on this forum that you can consider staying on board with us. I'm pretty sure most of us frequent flyers / flyertalk members need more of these members.

Thank you.:-:

Fully agree that non sense post has ruined the valuable discussions that we have seen in the last few weeks. As a matter of fact, the details given by cxcabincrew are not sensitive or any sort of insider information at all. Those valuable details just confirm some of the experiences that we had in flight. The same information can be found anywhere in the internet, but you have to spend some efforts to locate them. For example, several CX crews maintain their blog talking about their flying experience. If you follow these blogs closely, you will probably get the same type of information. The personal pictures of some crews are even shown in the blog.

I really hope cxcabincrew can stay and at least share some of your flying experiences with us. You do not have to mention a specific flight or specific instance that leave CX any clue in locating who you are.

Referring back to some older threads, found this one interesting and useful. I have been redeeming J class from LAX to HKG for years for the family of three. Never found one less attentive FA but did experience something interesting on the recent flight in Dec.09

A cabin manager came up and greeted me with my family name in a genuine smile . It was a bit surprising since I have no status in MPC. Why did she do it? I saw she walked away and did not greet others. Was it just a normal practice? Or the full redemption tickets in a roll will post a remark on my status?-really doubt about it though.

I am writing about this because I want to seek your opinions on this to prep myself for the first time in CX F the coming Dec. I know I'm not paying for my F tickets and shouldn't expect too much. But I don't want to feel bad as if I'm taking away their revenue and using their facilities for free. Aren't we contributing to the airlines if we transfer credit card points?

A cabin manager came up and greeted me with my family name in a genuine smile . It was a bit surprising since I have no status in MPC. Why did she do it? I saw she walked away and did not greet others. Was it just a normal practice? Or the full redemption tickets in a roll will post a remark on my status?-really doubt about it though.

I am writing about this because I want to seek your opinions on this to prep myself for the first time in CX F the coming Dec. I know I'm not paying for my F tickets and shouldn't expect too much. But I don't want to feel bad as if I'm taking away their revenue and using their facilities for free. Aren't we contributing to the airlines if we transfer credit card points?

Were you in F? Does ISM greets everyone in F by default? AA greets everyone in J by default (at least they used to, haven't taken AA J for awhile.)

But yes, to the airlines miles redemption tickets are consider "revenue" tickets because they consider miles commodity

Were you in F? Does ISM greets everyone in F by default? AA greets everyone in J by default (at least they used to, haven't taken AA J for awhile.)

But yes, to the airlines miles redemption tickets are consider "revenue" tickets because they consider miles commodity
...i agree...i think that when one uses BA miles on CX, CX is getting some $$ on that I am sure....anyone know how this works?

A cabin manager came up and greeted me with my family name in a genuine smile . It was a bit surprising since I have no status in MPC. Why did she do it? I saw she walked away and did not greet others. Was it just a normal practice? Or the full redemption tickets in a roll will post a remark on my status?-really doubt about it though.

I am writing about this because I want to seek your opinions on this to prep myself for the first time in CX F the coming Dec. I know I'm not paying for my F tickets and shouldn't expect too much. But I don't want to feel bad as if I'm taking away their revenue and using their facilities for free. Aren't we contributing to the airlines if we transfer credit card points?
It is SOP for the ISM to greet all F and J pax. However, there have been occasions where the ISM did not come by and say hi (I couldn't care less though). Enjoy CX F!

I was in J when she greeted me, Cathay Boy. Your information on the -transfered points as some revenue -gave me back my pride to be able to fly in the front, thanks.

So in the end, my question is (yes I read through all 5 pages :p), is there any mark on the manifest that denotes to the cabin crew that your on an award ticket? (Im aware it tells them of status, name, and meal preference is applicable).

However, there have been occasions where the ISM did not come by and say hi (I couldn't care less though). Enjoy CX F!

It happens to me once on a long-haul CX flight. I was op-upped to J. I don't care - the service was still very good. Almost all J passengers were op-ups on that flight.

So in the end, my question is (yes I read through all 5 pages :p), is there any mark on the manifest that denotes to the cabin crew that your on an award ticket? (Im aware it tells them of status, name, and meal preference is applicable).

Yes. They do not know your booking class, but they know that you are on award, redemption upgrade, op-up or others.

I beg to differ, all upgrades are shown on the manifest

I beg to differ, all upgrades are shown on the manifest

Differ - which post are you referring to?

I beg to differ, all upgrades are shown on the manifest

I think the poster meant they don't know the booking class as in Y, B, H, K, M, L, V.... However, they do know that you're award, redemption, op-up (which means upgrade if you don't know it, which might be another reason why you're confused.)

So when the ISM sees you as op-up, and you're in J, it's not hard to guess you bought a Y ticket, but on what level of Y they don't know.

So in the end, my question is (yes I read through all 5 pages :p), is there any mark on the manifest that denotes to the cabin crew that your on an award ticket? (Im aware it tells them of status, name, and meal preference is applicable).

They denote a lot of things on that manifest, you'll be surprise.

There's always an urban legend that FAs will add "notes" to your name if you are a jerk or obnoxious, etc., and that sticks with you forever every time you fly their airline, LOL

They denote a lot of things on that manifest, you'll be surprise.

There's always an urban legend that FAs will add "notes" to your name if you are a jerk or obnoxious, etc., and that sticks with you forever every time you fly their airline, LOL
Huh, it rang my bell why they were so nice to me. I filled out a survey couple years ago and I ranked everthing top notch. They even asked me to do the survey again last year... I learned something from this... "be nice to everyone" and it will come back to you or bad karma if vice versa???:p

I beg to differ, all upgrades are shown on the manifest wholly confrontational batman....:(

there was a great thread all about this stuff that got yanked a few months ago...too bad...suffice to say the manifest shows LOTS of information.

Huh, it rang my bell why they were so nice to me. I filled out a survey couple years ago and I ranked everthing top notch. They even asked me to do the survey again last year... I learned something from this... "be nice to everyone" and it will come back to you or bad karma if vice versa???:p

Funny that you mentioned the survey:

The last two flights in Y I've saw the FA walking around with the survey and a pen, and she literally looks at every pax, twice, up and down, before she decides who should she hands it to. I find that interesting...

Huh, it rang my bell why they were so nice to me. I filled out a survey couple years ago and I ranked everthing top notch. They even asked me to do the survey again last year... I learned something from this... "be nice to everyone" and it will come back to you or bad karma if vice versa???:pIndeed the same conclusion and actions myself!

Having said that i'd say a lot of "service" isn't necessarily consistent for us lower statused folks! Why would sometimes I get the greetings in Y when other times I don't? Actually I feel a plonker when I do as I see fellow passengers wondering "..." :)

Just want to clarify, have any of you guys actually seen the manifest with AWARD BOOKING information on it? I'm not talking about op-ups here, I have confirmed on numerous occasions the FAs are well-aware who they are. So again, NOT op-ups, but actual award tickets. Like, I use Asia Miles to book a full J or full F award. As in, I blow a full 200k+ miles to fly HKG-JFK in F round-trip. Does the manifest indicate this? Have you seen this or are otherwise actually able to confirm it yourself, not based on what others/friends/pilots/whatever have told you or what you think, but actually can confirm with your own eyes? I've seen this information pop up here on our CX forum a lot in the past years, but never have I seen actual confirmation. I fully intend to ask the ISM next week to JFK, hopefully she'll be nice enough to share some of that with me.

Apologies for the clarification, I'd just really like to know myself (I have never actually seen the manifest myself) because I'm quite curious - if indeed it's true, theoretically it could lead to slightly different standards of service in a cabin based on method of payment. For me, if they can't see the paid booking class (Y, K, M, J, F, etc.), then it wouldn't make sense to me why they could somehow see the AWARD category (which, in reality, is just another booking class...U, Z, etc.). Sometimes I do suspect the info on FT is more based on previous posters' info or hear-say, instead of actual facts, but I'd really like to have this one clarified if anyone has seen it themselves - definitely would be good info to have.

When I was on a mileage upgrade about one and a half years ago, the ISM came by a few times. We had long chats. He was very friendly. He mentioned that it was easy for me as a DM to get mileage upgrade. Clearly he knew that from the manifest.

I talked with a FP in a gallery a year ago, she said she did not understand the booking classes, but she knew who were upgraded - mileage or complimentary.

It isn't a good idea for cabin crew to treat award passengers differently, esp in premium cabins. That is true not only where the passenger earned the points, but also where the passenger got the ticket from a friend/ family member who earned the points.

Often times the ticket was earned by somebody who does a great deal of business with the airline. It just isn't good business.

It isn't a good idea for cabin crew to treat award passengers differently, esp in premium cabins. That is true not only where the passenger earned the points, but also where the passenger got the ticket from a friend/ family member who earned the points.

Often times the ticket was earned by somebody who does a great deal of business with the airline. It just isn't good business.

Op-ups may be occasionally treated differently, but I don't see award passengers being treated differently. Other posters may have different experience.

I've flown on numerous flights in paid F and award F, and have never felt I was being treated differently. Not one bit.

I've flown on numerous flights in paid F and award F, and have never felt I was being treated differently. Not one bit.

Ditto.

Ditto.

Obviously as a paid F you're not going to be treated differently. As an award F it is still considered "revenue ticket" because airlines see miles as costs.

The problem being posted here by many is that as op-up F they get treated differently. Indifference attitude, slower and less responsive service, downgraded meals (this is fine in my opinion).

At the end I think it's pride and self-esteem issue. When you see the other paid F getting great service, friendly smile, and then when the FA/ISM comes to you it's a blank face with slower service it won't make anybody feel good.

This is why I would say to airlines, if the plane is full try as hard as you can to convince people to take a later flight with money incentives, free hotels and food if overnight is require. Rather than "upgrading" them and then treat them sub-standard.

I understand the argument that they should be grateful for an upgrade already, but again, human pride and self-esteem is at issue.

Obviously as a paid F you're not going to be treated differently. As an award F it is still considered "revenue ticket" because airlines see miles as costs.



CXBoy,

I understand your point here, but from what I could gather from your previous posts, it will say "award ticket" on the manifest next to your name? Or does it merely say the fare code which some of the FA's understand to mean mileage redemption?

Just want to clarify, have any of you guys actually seen the manifest with AWARD BOOKING information on it? I'm not talking about op-ups here, I have confirmed on numerous occasions the FAs are well-aware who they are. So again, NOT op-ups, but actual award tickets. Like, I use Asia Miles to book a full J or full F award. As in, I blow a full 200k+ miles to fly HKG-JFK in F round-trip. Does the manifest indicate this? Have you seen this or are otherwise actually able to confirm it yourself, not based on what others/friends/pilots/whatever have told you or what you think, but actually can confirm with your own eyes? I've seen this information pop up here on our CX forum a lot in the past years, but never have I seen actual confirmation. I fully intend to ask the ISM next week to JFK, hopefully she'll be nice enough to share some of that with me.

Apologies for the clarification, I'd just really like to know myself (I have never actually seen the manifest myself) because I'm quite curious - if indeed it's true, theoretically it could lead to slightly different standards of service in a cabin based on method of payment. For me, if they can't see the paid booking class (Y, K, M, J, F, etc.), then it wouldn't make sense to me why they could somehow see the AWARD category (which, in reality, is just another booking class...U, Z, etc.). Sometimes I do suspect the info on FT is more based on previous posters' info or hear-say, instead of actual facts, but I'd really like to have this one clarified if anyone has seen it themselves - definitely would be good info to have.

...if you have been around you would have seen the postings by CXCabinGuy and his request to yank all his posts since he was affraid he had breached agreements with his employer...CX....i was almost certain this poster did note award bookings are on the manifest with a CX internal notation and staff can tell who is an award pax and who is not among many other things....in fact it was THIS VERY thread that had all the good nuggets...I think it was in post 15 and 18....ahhh...so much good information now gone...see post 51/53 also...

...if you have been around you would have seen the postings by CXCabinGuy and his request to yank all his posts since he was affraid he had breached agreements with his employer...CX....i was almost certain this poster did note award bookings are on the manifest with a CX internal notation and staff can tell who is an award pax and who is not among many other things....in fact it was THIS VERY thread that had all the good nuggets...I think it was in post 15 and 18....ahhh...so much good information now gone...see post 51/53 also...

Thx for this, I do recall CXcabincrew but don't specifically remember that post re: awards. If indeed that is true, it doesn't seem like that information is always shared with the full airplane staff - on my most recent F award, both (excellent) FAs in F were talking to me about the cost of flying in F and my age (I'm usually the youngest pax in the F cabin). I couldn't sleep and was in a talking mood. They were joking around saying something to the tune of "since you're paying for F we can't wait to set you up with our nieces!" I didn't of course let them in on the secret that I in fact was not on a paid F ticket that flight ;), but rather a J->F Asia Miles award. But the point stands, they definitely emphasized a few times for me the cost of paying for F, when for that specific flight my F ticket indeed was not paid for with cash but rather miles. So at least in that one isolated example it seems the two FAs in F didn't know.

Thx for this, I do recall CXcabincrew but don't specifically remember that post re: awards. If indeed that is true, it doesn't seem like that information is always shared with the full airplane staff - on my most recent F award, both (excellent) FAs in F were talking to me about the cost of flying in F and my age (I'm usually the youngest pax in the F cabin). I couldn't sleep and was in a talking mood. They were joking around saying something to the tune of "since you're paying for F we can't wait to set you up with our nieces!" I didn't of course let them in on the secret that I in fact was not on a paid F ticket that flight ;), but rather a J->F Asia Miles award. But the point stands, they definitely emphasized a few times for me the cost of paying for F, when for that specific flight my F ticket indeed was not paid for with cash but rather miles. So at least in that one isolated example it seems the two FAs in F didn't know.

The ISM or the purser may not always share the information with all the FAs. Some FAs may not have the information, and some may only have an abbreviated list (e.g. a small piece of paper with the DMs' names and seat numbers).

I think the main problem here is that industry discount tickets (for staff, and travel agent travel) are usually booked into same booking class as award/upgrade travel.

In addition, a notation in the OSI field of the PNR would indicate that the passenger is traveling on this type of ticket (eg. "OSI CX ID75", which means the passenger is travelling on a staff ticket by paying only 25% of the fare) at the time the booking is created. This field is then picked up by the DCS (Departure Control System [also known as check-in system]), appended to the DCS record and subsequently to the flight manifest.

For passengers who got op-upped, their PNRs will get annotated as such (EG. OSI CX INVOL UPG) in the DCS, and the notation is pushed onto the flight manifest.

For passengers travelling on regular award ticket and Y->J and J->F redemption upgrades, these notations generally do not apply and are not pushed onto the flight manifest.

Although not related to CX, one time I was flying OZ from ICN-HKG and connecting to LX from HKG-ZRH on the same day. When I checked in at ICN, I requested that my bag be tagged up to HKG only. The agent presumably entered an OSI into my DCS record "OSI PAX REQ SHORT CHECK" and it showed up on the flight manifest! (which I later spotted hung up on the galley wall). When I arrived in HKG, I was met by LX staff (in CX uniform) asking if I needed to have my bag retagged to ZRH!

It looks like the OSI message entered by OZ in ICN which was intended for the downline station in HKG somehow go onto the flight manifest as well!

Note: It seems to me that for VIP/CIP passengers, they would have some kind of OSI message enterted into their DCS records at the time of check-in so that it shows up on the manifest. Similarly for special meals, SSR messages are used. Eg. SSR VGML etc. and are transmitted from the reservation system to the various caterers, and also to the DCS/manifest.

For passengers travelling on regular award ticket and Y->J and J->F redemption upgrades, these notations generally do not apply and are not pushed onto the flight manifest.

Referring to post #76, would there be any other way that the ISM knew I was on a mileage upgrade? He most certainly knew I was. He brought up the subject.

Were you an ODU, cxfan1960?

Were you an ODU, cxfan1960?

The mileage upgrade was ticketed about a week before the flight.

The mileage upgrade was ticketed about a week before the flight.

I believe CXCabinGuy says there's all kinds of codes that denotes all kinds of info. Too bad his posts are removed, he was a great resource.

The mileage upgrade was ticketed about a week before the flight.

Perhaps when the MPO/Asia Miles call center sent a message to their ticketing department to reissue your ticket so that the upgrade is reflected, the same message somehow got passed to the DCS and then onto the flight manifest?

Perhaps when the MPO/Asia Miles call center sent a message to their ticketing department to reissue your ticket so that the upgrade is reflected, the same message somehow got passed to the DCS and then onto the flight manifest?

Perhaps that was how it happened. IMHO, the FAs need not know whether a passenger is on an award. I felt strange when I found that they knew. It made no difference, as I was afforded excellent J service and attention from the crew.

Perhaps when the MPO/Asia Miles call center sent a message to their ticketing department to reissue your ticket so that the upgrade is reflected, the same message somehow got passed to the DCS and then onto the flight manifest?

Thanks for your info. So if I understand correctly your previous post, it seems that the manifest does not have award info/ticketing class if it was booked as an award, provided nothing occurred that would spur CX to pass a note along to the DCS. It would make sense to me if this was the case, since the manifest does not have booking class - and inherently, a (non-op up) upgrade or full redemption ticket is still just a different booking class, and the seat was "paid" for, just using a different style of payment. I see no reason why it should be on there.

My thinking is just it wouldn't be right to include this information on the manifest by default, because it could lead to discrimination based on fare paid. I would really be surprised if this were common practice. IMO it would be no different than, say, for CX to include I or J fare connotations on the manifest (two extremely different fare structures), or even treating pax differently based on departure city (say, ex-TPE vs ex-HKG, which we all know also have very different fare structures to the same CX destinations). Or say Y/B vs V fare. Or F vs. A fare. You get the idea. I don't think award tix are actually any different, just they aren't paid in CASH - they're paid in miles, which is definitely a form of currency. Part of the whole pricing model is being able to target different customer segments and giving them different prices based on certain criteria that tries to gauge their elasticity to cost (date of ticket purchased, length of stay, departure city, Sat night stay, etc. etc. etc.). However, regardless of this the customer expects what he pays for - ie, if you pay for an I ticket, unless otherwise advised you expect to receive the same meal in J as the guy seated next to you! Or can you imagine flying from TPE-JFK via HK in J, and on CX840 the pax next to you is on just a HKG-JFK itinerary (no TPE origination). Because of this, the staff allows him to drink champagne, but tells you that you can't have any, and further, you have to get a Y meal to boot. Why? Because the pax next to you paid for the ticket HKG-JFK (which likely cost 2-3x the price of you ex-TPE ticket)!!! This is extreme, yes, but it seems like some discrimination would be natural if this information was just always included. I don't fully understand how mileage programs work, but I take a stab at it below to try to prove why mileage tickets should be viewed as "paid" tickets. If I completely miss the mark, feel free to rip it apart:

After thinking about it I suspect airlines can monetize miles by getting payment now for (x) miles (aka, from credit card companies or spun-off mileage plan companies), in exchange for the credit card company, mileage plan, etc. getting rights to issue (x) amount of miles to their customers. The airline can probably calculate what % of miles won't be used, on average what the cost of each service to be used is and how many miles should be appropriated to each service, and can arrive at a reasonable expectation of profit from the sales of those miles. This is, really, no different than CX just pre-selling goods and services. Although it took a convoluted route, the miles I use to book an award ticket are indeed a real form of currency that CX was compensated for somehow. I figure these miles are liabilities until they are used.

It gets slightly trickier not in the case of credit cards (which I'm almost positive they sell), but with wholly-owned mileage plan subsidiaries, which I think CX's is. Still, the general principal is the same. In this they don't physically "sell" the miles, but you can think of them giving away the miles as a cost of doing business. A necessary cost of doing business: presumably, they would give them away for free because of some competitive element in the industry whereby customers demanded a mileage program before they will drive business to that airline. In a sense, it is serving as a discount mechanism. Or, you could also invert that and think that the customer could instead interpret every cash ticket he/she flies as actually costing slightly more than the dollar amount he/she paid, while he is banking say (x)% of each ticket towards a pot (aka your mileage account) that is redeemable once you get a certain amount in the pot.

I suspect the airlines hate this, but I can't really sympathize with them....it's business. An argument could be made that it would definitely benefit all of the airlines to get together and decide to eliminate mileage programs altogether, but given how competitive the industry is that's just not going to happen.