MilesBuzz! - Is Top Tier Elite Status More Valuable with Airlines or Hotels?

For the intermittent traveler, it seems like airline top tier status is more valuable. In North American programs, you can earn it on virtually any fare, and it provides real benefits in free upgrades (incl. intercontinental travel on UA and AA at least), boarding priority, and IRROPS protection. With hotel programs, the qualifying room rate may be 2 or 3 times as costly as Priceline, and the added benefit of top tier status (say club floor, snacks, bathrobe, a few extra program points) often isn't worth it vs. enjoying food and drink on your dime and a Priceline room rate. Plus, your average mid-tier hotel doesn't even have a club floor.

Hotels probably win on redeemable points, with substantial award availability and free promo nights without taxes and fuel surcharges. Air awards score mainly for last-minute travel and premium class awards outside North America, but otherwise tend to be marginal.

It may depend on whether tier status or redeemable points are more important to you. If tier status, then airlines; if points towards expensive downtown or resort properties, then hotels.

What do others think?

Airline status, hands down.

Since I stay in mainly mid-grade hotels (Courtyard, Hampton, HI Express), I gain almost nothing, save for extra redeemable points, with my loyalty, so I generally spread it around, and hold middling status with several chains.

Insofar as airlines, top status helps the most when things go wrong (WX, MX, etc...), as airlines generally accomodate their top tier folks first. Occasional upgrades and express security lines don't hurt either.

Agree airline top status. The difference in treatment by airlines between very top and mid tier status is often huge, whereas for hotels the difference is smaller. At least in my experiences (I am or have been top tier in 3 hotel chains and in 5 airlines not counting those with only 1 status level).

It'll be interesting if anybody shows up here making a claim for hotels. Perhaps a Starwood Plat who frequents the St. Regis brand often will have some amazing experiences to share.

For me, no question about it, the UA 1K SWU's are far more valuable than the occasional upgrade I get as a Marriott Plat. Furthermore, as Kiwi notes, the difference between top and mid tier at a hotel is usually a minor welcome gift and a small points bonus. The rooms I get as a MR Plat are the same rooms I was getting as a Gold. Generally the most desirable non-suite hotel rooms, but not suites.

Now that HH has thrown Diamond status open to all comers (in the U.S. anyway), I fear that the uniqueness of the top tier will continue to deteriorate. Not that hotels will start treating these guests badly: just that there will be a lot more of them and therefore no real uniqueness about the levels.

(At least with an airline 2xEQM promo, you actually have to fly. To hit a top-tier entirely under that promo, you'd have to be at least a legit mid-tier to begin with.)

Totally depends on travel habits. I am a short haul biz flyer who travels, unfortunately, on RJs that have no F class cabin, so top tier status is much less useful for me. SPG status, however, has been amazing and I would choose that any day over DL Plat.

1) I accrue enough airline miles through CC spend and Rewards Network to travel intl J/F (when J/F really matters IMO) several times a year so SWUs are not useful to me, especially Delta's PMUs which are only useful on very expensive fare classes.

2) SPG plat gives me very generous suite upgrades ,even on award stays, and great free perks (front row NCAA tix and Clear membership for ex). Airline award reservations, in most cases, are not upgradeable.

In my situation, I'd much rather fly in an exit row, use free drink coupons I traded for on CC and have a huge, ocean view Westin Diplomat Suite waiting for me in FLL, than get upgraded to first class for 2 hours and have a run of the mill hotel room.

I know people have differing experiences with SPG, but they have treated me like a rockstar. And surprisingly, my silver (low) tier status on DL gives me a lot- exit row, no bag fees, US based phone agents and occasional upgrades (including a couple amazing op-ups).

However, I can totally see if I was traveling transcon frequently, why I would need top tier air status. Thus, it totally depends on your travel habits.

For me the most valuable attribute of a hotel room is the view, so a suite is only valuable if it has the best view. Many don't.

Large business hotel chains have two key things going for them: they often have high rise structures, and their program points allow redemptions at prime city center properties.

When moving from top tier to mid-tier in a hotel program, I would be most concerned about being typically assigned to a room several floors lower, in a worse view location. Presumably this isn't too much of a problem if you chat up the front desk manager?

Considering I do not get a lot of personal value out of "suite" upgrades at hotels (usually just a place to sleep), I definitely prefer the top status with airlines. I know it is different when I am a 1K with United than when I am not.

The upgrades earned can allow you to upgrade... or to upgrade someone else. You do not have that option with most hotel programs... the upgrades are only available if you are staying at the property. That is a big benefit if I want to gift a friend or family member.

another +1 for airlines

While I fly enough to achieve 1K on UA, it's all MRs and all on my dime.

So far, I've definitely benefited from it (close in award availability w/ no fee, great service during IRROPS, etc)

While I've managed to obtain Gold Status with Marriott, SPG, Hilton and Plat with PC. (mostly through promos and such) turns out I don't really get to enjoy the benefits.

Speaking of Marriott, one of the main benefits is Concierge Lounge access. Sadly, most of my Mileage Runs and stays are on off-hours or weekends, when they close those Lounges.

Also, IME, the nicer the Marriott resort , the worse they've seemed to treat me (as a Gold) and I've read the same sentiment from Plats.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have status than go without but so far, the meager benefits don't make up for the cost required to obtain it the hard way.

YMMV

Large business hotel chains have two key things going for them: they often have high rise structures, and their program points allow redemptions at prime city center properties.

When moving from top tier to mid-tier in a hotel program, I would be most concerned about being typically assigned to a room several floors lower, in a worse view location. Presumably this isn't too much of a problem if you chat up the front desk manager?

I have "high floor" noted in my profile. I never had a problem getting that as either a mid-tier or top-tier guest. I think the key with hotels is to, at a bare minimum, at least take the "gimmie" status level that requires no stays. HH Gold, SPG Gold, MR Silver. (I'll leave HH Diamond out of this for the time being. ;)) That puts you ahead of the truly infrequent travelers who don't pay attention to loyalty programs or who booked through a travel agent and just hand over an airline card at checkin to earn a few FF miles.

A low/mid status will usually ensure a decent regular room if that's your primary goal.

Also, IME, the nicer the Marriott resort , the worse they've seemed to treat me (as a Gold) and I've read the same sentiment from Plats.

Totally agreed. This is a major hole in the Marriott program: if the hotel is arbitrarily deemed a "resort" by Marriott, it can withhold all sorts of benefits from elites. It's this restriction more than anything that originally led me to explore a couple of other brands. Now I use Marriott in cities but try to avoid them in places where they have the "resort" tag.

For the life of me I can't figure out what their thinking is behind this: at a business hotel, I am a very low-maintenance guest. Get my bed/smoke right, get me close to the C-level, I'm happy. It's at the resorts in particular where I wish Platinum was really recognized a bit more. Not that I ever want to get all snotty about a hotel status, but they seem to have it totally backwards where they emphasize the "eliteness" of the levels.

The Hyatt Gold Passport treatment of it's diamond members, is better than most airlines will give their top flyers. Diamonds get free breakfast, free WIFI, suites when WE want them and a very generous program: where a program enhancement, is actually an improvement, rather than a devaluation of benefits. Hyatt and most hotel chains are not at deaths door, like many of the airlines. The service provided is what the airlines used to give in my boyhood in the 1980s.

In short, Hyatt has class, which American airline can you say that about, today? I value being a Hyatt Diamond, the airline status is just a necessary evil, needed for avoiding fees (that did not exist a few years ago) and first class upgraded service, which is less than coach in the 1980s. Like the US auto makers, only the airlines are in a state of decline around the travel industry. Hyatt and others strive to be the best and have a loyal customer base; based on their consistent quality of service: versus a system of bribery to keep your loyalty to a business that is completely the same as it's competitors.:rolleyes:

It'll be interesting if anybody shows up here making a claim for hotels. ...

Considering numerous posters who claim that Southwest, JetBlue, Virgin America etc are the way to go I would certainly expect a lot of people in the hotel camp...

If someone earns miles through CC spending and redeems in C/F, airline status doesn't add much but hotel status benefits are quite useful.

I am going to plump for the hotel status, but here are the assumptions.

1. Already fly in paid F/J because I am flying for work.
2. As a result of 1. above, the FF status is less important, since the main benefit is already a given.
3. Usually stay in either SPG, Hyatt, or when thse are unavailable, Hilton or Marriott properties.
4. Growing old and cranky and have less tolerance for a lot of cross-cultural hassle, so the hotel becomes a refuge from the onslaught of negotiations, taxis, regulators, assorted simpletons, etc.

With these four assumptions, the service provided by SPG in particular is usually outstanding. Occasionally Hyatt will remember how it used to behave and come through as well. Therefore for me, the SPG status is valuable and attractive.

Twenty years ago, when I was young and studly, the burgeoning idea of airline status was much more important.

I have to give the edge to airlines, provided of course you are in a position to use the free upgrades, etc. I find that (while I have the tier levels in various) hotels for the most part have a lot to do with specific properties. Yeah SPG gives suites/lounge, but not much else (NCAA tix notwithstanding) and good luck finding a property with a lounge nowadays , Marriott/Hilton give breakfast/lounge, Hilton gives internet^. But a lot of this you can make up for on your own dime and come out a lot cheaper with no status whatsoever. Hotel status certainly hasn't become worthless, but it doesn't approach the value of my top level AA status. As always YMMV.

It depends also on which specific programs you're considering. As in the case of an earlier poster, my primary programs are Delta and Starwood. This specific combination is sort of a "perfect storm" to result in a preference for the hotel's top tier. For me, the difference between Gold and Platinum Medallion on Delta is not as big a difference as the difference between Gold and Platinum with SPG. I'm Plat with both, but if I had to drop to gold with one, I'd pick Delta.

Now, give me international SWUs that I can use for my wife or my family, and I'd probably reverse my preference.

I was thinking hands down airline status, but do see pitbrian's points.

All things considered, I would still go with airline status. For those of us who like to make last minute travel plans, the ability to make and change plans fee free is one of the most valuable things for me being 1k. The SWUs and CR1s are up there as well.

SPG Plat is great, but realistically I don't use, receive, or value the benefits that much. Basically, I value the free room most and the Plat benefits are marginal, though appreciated!

It also depends on things like how far ahead you book (flights) and how many nights at a time you stay (in hotels) and who pays for your hotel stays and how tall you are. :)

For me, the lowest-tier airline elite level (that lets me reserve exit row seats or otherwise seats with more legroom, given that I'm tall) is more valuable than the highest-tier elite level at hotels I can afford on my own dime (and since all my travel is on my own dime, it doesn't matter how great elite level at Hyatt's might be to me, since I can't afford Hyatt's rates to begin with).

How much is free internet worth? It's very nice, but at most about $15 a night in the US. How much is free breakfast worth? again, very nice, but it's at most $$ in the US. Now, how much does reserving a seat with exit row legroom or better cost if you have no elite status? It costs at least that much again to upgrade to Economy Plus on UA, and there's no way to pay for any less upgrade than all the way to first (for many $$$) on most other airlines!

Meanwhile, if you can afford to pay Hyatt's rates (on your own dime) already, just what percentage of value do you get from free internet and free breakfast??? The charges for those at other comparable hotels are a tiny fraction of the daily rates I tend to see for Hyatt properties.

And, meanwhile, the highest-level tier at most hotel programs built around less-expensive hotel chains gets you pretty much nothing beyond bonus points,,, (Priority Club, Choice Privileges, WynhamRewards, BestWestern Rewards, etc.) And I can't see how someone would claim that bonus points alone is better than priority seating, priority boarding, priority check-in, priority lines in security (at least at some airports), etc, which doesn't even take the top-tier of most airline programs to get.

Having said that: Top-tier status at hotels is generally much easier to earn (either through bonus points or credit card spend at many chains), year after year, while qualifying for top-tier airline status is hard work if your company doesn't send you all over the place all the time.

sdsearch brings up a slightly different, but very valid, point: with all of the rules about luggage, seat assignments, security lines, etc. the low-tier airline status is suddenly worth a great deal.

A low-tier hotel status is generally good enough to ensure that you don't get the most undesirable rooms in the building, but beyond that it is not worth much.

Not really the original question, but important nonetheless.

I would love to hold a top-tier hotel status that really meant something. Well, to clarify: I'd love to hold a top-tier status and travel to specific properties where it meant something. SPG Plat at a top St. Regis. Or maybe whatever VIP-type statuses exist within Four Seasons, Pan Pacific, etc. Of course I don't really do revenue nights at those places, so I'll just keep dreamin'...and maybe one of these years do a really top-shelf stay as an HH Diamond and hit the upgrade jackpot.

At the center, for me, is that being a United 1K SAVES ME A TON on all the fees, mainly the change and close-in fees. This is head, shoulders, (knees and toes) above everything else. Over the years, the other perks have been at the center, but no more -- whether it's on my dime or the business's (which doesn't insulate me). Don't get me wrong. All the other perks are as important as they always have been, but the fee issue has catapulted past the others.

As to the hotels, fortunately, I still travel enough to get free breakfast, something that's not even a perk in the rest of the world (meaning it's a given). It's frankly all I care about anymore at hotels. Well, and free wifi nowadays, but that's a given at all the "lesser" chains (another irony -- for another day).

As a 1K on UA, it's not the upgrades or tickets or fee waivers - but rather it's all about priority standby during irregular operations.

As a 1K on UA, it's not the upgrades or tickets or fee waivers - but rather it's all about priority standby during irregular operations.

There's definitely that. But I would disagree only in that, BOS, ORD and IAD - which are where I (and probably most people at ORD and IAD) mostly encounter IRROPS - are VERY top heavy with Global Services. So, yes, it's better for us than the rest, but not what you would assume.

For me, I value my airline status to be much more important than hotel status. UA 1K/GS receive hotels during weather related delays and that has proven to be VERY valuable for me. The difference in treatment for 1K/GS is astounding. You practically can get anything you ask for provided you're being nice and it's within reason.

Regarding hotel status, I hold middle tier with Hyatt and SPG and am very happy. I am much more interested in promos such as Hyatt's Faster Free Nights. I've never had a weather related delay with getting a hotel room...hotel rooms tend to be much more predictable than air travel. I stay at Hyatt and SPG properties only but collected Hyatt, SPG, and HHonors.

Halothane

In a major change from ten years ago, I now travel almost exclusively at my own expense. It would be nice to still have anonymous stockholders bankrolling my habit without knowing it, but it's not happening and doesn't look like it's going to in the future.

In that situation, I value airline status more because I can't afford to stay in hotels where I might earn status - or at least not often enough to earn it. At the recent OzFest 6, I could have stayed at the Hilton and might have liked to, but my hotel was next door to the next-most-popular conference hotel, within easy walking distance of the Hilton for the activities that took place there or near there, totally acceptable in every respect, and half the price for four nights. On public higher education pay, soon to be a public higher ed pension, that matters. OTOH, I had no choice but to reach Australia on a major airline since there just aren't any inexpensive options. Elite benefits, such as lounge access (BOS, SFO, SYD, CNS), early boarding and so on were all nice to have. There fortunately weren't any irregular operations that required special handling, but that would have been very valuable as well.

Beyond that, to me a hotel is a place to sleep. When I'm asleep I don't know, or care, how big the room is or how fancy the lobby. Give me a comfortable bed, plumbing that works, and a coffee maker - I'm happy, and I'm usually out the door too soon to really appreciate the other stuff. This is not to deny that I'd enjoy something like a Hilton lounge once in a while - I've been there as a guest, it's nice - but considering how seldom I'd use it, it doesn't change the overall balance much.

At the center, for me, is that being a United 1K SAVES ME A TON on all the fees, mainly the change and close-in fees.

Excellent point. ^ We're taking a trip this week that involved redepositing two awards to switch to a set of flights that had both W and NC availability for SWU use. We did all of the ticketing / redeposit activity at the airport, so without 1K we would have probably been hit with two different sets of fees. (Maybe three...the original itin was a paper ticket because it had Adria segments in it. I probably would have had to pay a fee to get that original award to begin with.)

Beyond that, to me a hotel is a place to sleep. When I'm asleep I don't know, or care, how big the room is or how fancy the lobby. Give me a comfortable bed, plumbing that works, and a coffee maker - I'm happy, and I'm usually out the door too soon to really appreciate the other stuff. This is not to deny that I'd enjoy something like a Hilton lounge once in a while - I've been there as a guest, it's nice - but considering how seldom I'd use it, it doesn't change the overall balance much.

Throw in free wi-fi and I'm sold... Full service hotels don't have a single offering that I find useful that I can't find at a Hampton or a CY. All the hotel points do is ensure that I never have to pay out of pocket whilst on vaca.

Full service hotels don't have a single offering that I find useful that I can't find at a Hampton or a CY. All the hotel points do is ensure that I never have to pay out of pocket whilst on vaca.

Plus, it's kind of fun booking a Hampton Inn an hour or two ahead of you on the highway, then rolling in at 9PM and finding that you're the "Guest of the Day" as an HH Gold! :D

It's gotten us the Jacuzzi suite a couple of times... ^

I trust Hampton Inn to book it sight-unseen. With other brands in this category, I'm more likely to show up and at least want to see the building before I book it. (Not that that's a perfect indicator...) Then you've got the risk that some funky local event has the motels sold out. There are enough Hamptons along any given highway that there will always be a room at one of them within an hour's drive of your desired endpoint for the day.

Having been Platinum with Marriott for years, and Chairman's and Plat and Gold with US, and then Gold and Silver with DL, I have seen enough to know the differences and can make all the comparisons, and believe me, it does really matter!

I know that a lot of people complain about not getting meaningful upgrades with Marriott hotels, but I don't know why, because I get them all the time, and many other benefits too. I get suites or larger corner rooms at Marriott FS and Renaissance hotels about 40-50% of the time, and at Courtyard, in the hotels that have suites, I have gotten some of those too. Just tonight where I checked in to the Renaissance Pere Marquette in MSY (this hotel does not have suites), I got the Club Room floor, the corner room (which is the largest on the floor), and because I am a Plat, they matched the $98 AAA rate at the Courtyard New Orleans (one block away), because I said I would go there, instead of paying their AAA rate of $116. The lounge was open tonight for soft drinks and a snack, and will be open again for breakfast in the morning, all included, and this hotel offers free WIFI to all elites as a policy, which I knew, because I have stayed here before.

As far as the airlines go, the differences between Chairman's, Plat, and Gold with US was like night and day. As Chairman, I was upgraded for free 95% of the time, and the dedicated Chairman's rez line had service that was incredible, and there were no extra charges for anything! When I dropped down to Platinum, I still got upgraded about 80% of the time, but the fees started coming, such as booking fees if I wanted to speak with a live rez agent, and fees to redeem frequent flyer miles for reservations less than 21 days before the flights, and more for less than 10 days before the flights, and so on. As a US Gold, the upgrades were about 50% of the time, and the fees were even slightly more than for Plats. Having an elite line at check in (if I need it) is a big plus, because it allows me to go to most airports only 40-45 minutes before a flight

On DL, which I fly now, Gold got me upgraded about 80% of the time, and I could switch my flight to any other flight on the same day as my reservation with no charge. Silver gets me upgraded about 45-50% of the time, and if I miss my flight, or if I want to switch to any other flight on the same day as my reservation, it costs me $50. Any elite with DL does not pay bag fees, which is a nice benefit, but I am working hard to get myself back to Gold as fast as I can, because Silver bites! Just as with US, having an elite line at check in is a big plus, because it allows me to go to most airports only 40-45 minutes before a flight, and DL also has elite/first class security lines for security on many concourses, also a big plus.

*One side note about DL, I really wish they would get rid of the redhead with the cheesy plastic surgery and botox on the aircraft welcome video, she is wearing awfully thin, does anyone else agree with me?

So, in conclusion, I would have to say, having gone without my airline upgrades between DL Gold and Silver, that I am always uncomfortable and missing what I had, that airline elite status is more important than hotel elite status, but I would fight like hell for both!

As an interesting extra, I just recently because an Avis Chairman's Club member, and that is a terrific elite program! I never have to pay for more than a mid-size car but I get upgraded to the best available car they have, usually a luxury car, and they sometimes pick me up right in the terminal personally and take me right to my car, and they will always drive me back to the terminal in the same car, after I've checked in, so I don't need to haul my stuff out and take the bus. Over the course of a year, I would say that Avis Chairman's Club will save me $500 or $700 or more.

Very interesting arguments on both sides. Of course, as many folks have already pointed out, this is a personal choice based on one's travel habits.

Now, I've never attained peak status at any hotel chain, although I have come so very close on both Hilton and *wood. With that in mind, I have to give the edge to American Airlines EXP. Even if I had *wood plat, I'd probably still go with AA EXP mainly due to the American's EXP helpdesk. Those ladies are the best in the airline business hands down and have saved me thousands of dollars on personal travel when I've had to cancel / rebook tickets. When I travel, I try and spend as much time as possible away from the hotel. If I'm in my room for more than 8 hours in a 24 hour period, it better be because I'm doubled over the toilet with food poisoning. I'm more of a hostels kind of guy anyway, so hotels and suites and robes and free champagne don't do much for me at all.

Of course, my main argument for siding with airlines is the X2 miles you get with top status. On American, I usually get a free ticket in 3 RTs to Chicago. That's one darn free vacation flight for every three weeks of work travel!

I have been top tier with both Hilton (Diamond) and Marriott (Platinum) for the past four years. Unfortunately I have not been able to achieve the top tier with legacy airlines. I have reached and am currently gold with Delta. I'm also A list with Southwest.

I have used my hotel points for some of the worlds best hotels and in some cases been treated like royalty. So for me the hotel points are best.

Last year we were upgraded to a very large three room corner suite on the executive floor of the Hilton Cavalieri. The room overlooked Rome and Saint Peter's Basilica. The free spa usage and the excellent food and beverage at the executive lounge was all wonderful. All of this was for 175,000 Hilton points. A six night stay with a room rate of 1,000 Euro's per night would have cost us over $9,000. I'm not rich so that would have never happened without the points. The points were earned staying mostly at cheap Hampton Inns.

If top tier airline status beats that, then I need to try harder to obtain it.

Airline status wins out for me...mainly due to IRROPS. Hotel status can get you a nicer room, free breakfast, some snacks, and maybe free internet access. But airline status can get you home closer to your original schedule during IRROPS and maybe get you home earlier is choosing to take an earlier flight.

Of course, if you aren't flying any of the legacy carriers, then the benefits of airline status seem muted and hotel status starts looking better.

I certainly agree with you there PCM! However, that is true for either airlines or hotels. I spend my money domestically, and spend my points internationally for both flying and hotels (by and large, with a few exceptions).

For domestic air travel, I spend dollars for my airline tickets and accumulate miles, and I would never consider spending miles on myself for domestic travel, because it devalues the miles. 25,000 miles for a domestic ticket that would be worth $300-400 is silly when 80,000 or 90,000 miles for an international business class ticket would be worth $3,000-5,000 and 100,000 to 125,000 miles for an international first class ticket would be worth $6,000-15,000 depending on the airline and the routing.

For domestic hotels, I spend dollars for my hotel stays and accumulate points, and with the exception of NYC, BOS, Hawaii, and a couple of other very expensive locations, I would never consider spending miles on myself for domestic hotels, because it devalues the points. For the same 130,000 points with Marriott, you can stay in a class 6 hotel, no matter where it is, and no matter what the actual price per night is. A class 6 hotel in Dallas might cost $189 per night, while a class 6 hotel in London cost me £350 per night, at a time when the exchange rate was $2.00 per pound! So, a six night stay in that location would have cost $4,200 plus tax at that time. Then I went on to Amsterdam, and stayed another six nights, where the rate was €340, and the exchange rate at that time was $1.40 per euro! So, a six night stay in that location would have cost $2,946. The bonus points and accumulation and the room upgrades were as a result my Platinum status. I would not have gone on the trip if I would not have been able to get the rooms and use the huge amount of points that I had accumulated, because I would not have spent over $7,100 on the hotels alone!

Of course I did the same for my airfare too, but the deals were much more difficult to come by, but still, in the long run, the elite memberships in both are highly valuable, and I would find it very difficult to sacrifice one over the other.

Hotel status for me (SPG), although I do have both. My paid J flights are through work, so the airline status is mostly just bragging rights.

Cheers,

Hotel status for me (SPG), although I do have both. My paid J flights are through work, so the airline status is mostly just bragging rights.

Cheers,

Okay, but what about the times when your company is not paying for your flights, like when you are on vacation with your family, does where you sit and your airline status matter to you then?

Okay, but what about the times when your company is not paying for your flights, like when you are on vacation with your family, does where you sit and your airline status matter to you then?

I think this question is moot for many of us - the miles we earn from all sources mean we do (or could) simply book a lot of personal travel in whichever cabin we wish to fly.

Does it always work out that way? I agree with you that award travel is the best way to go, and I use it for international business and first class travel whenever possible. However, if I have a very specific date in mind, and cannot deviate from it for whatever reason, it is not always possible to find award seats for those dates because of limited supply, so what do you do when that happens?

Okay, but what about the times when your company is not paying for your flights, like when you are on vacation with your family, does where you sit and your airline status matter to you then?
Points. Among others, Cayman. UK. Bahamas. Boston. Australia this Christmas. Just in the last year or so. Always upfront.

Cheers,

Interesting, I can't tell you how many times I have tried to use my miles to obtain first or business class seats to Australia from anywhere in the US, and have never been able to get them. I have been top tier in StarAlliance and Chairman's Preferred with US, and had miles to burn, and could not get them no matter what I tried, on every partner airline there was, nothing. Now I fly DL, and I will try again, any suggestions?

I think one can use the benefits of top tier airline status more often (security line, check-in, upgrade), but the one thing I found key for having top tier status for hotels is the 72-hour room guarantee when a hotel is sold out. Maybe in this economy this is no longer an issue, but if I were booking a hotel less than two weeks in advance in downtown Calgary, the Hyatt would always be sold out, and I would have to go to the more run-down Marriott (this was 1.5 years ago), and that made a huge difference for me. I also think it's harder to get top tier airline status vs top tier hotel status, at least when doing mostly domestic travel. Easier to spend so many nights away from home vs. reaching a certain amount of miles.

I've been denied a lot on the Marriott Platinum Guarantee - even when I'm trying to book a sold-out hotel 3-4 months in advance. The individual properties have too many ways to game the system and prevent even the Platinum agents from booking the rooms. :td:

(And no, I'm not talking about trying to book for the Olympics, Super Bowl, or any other major global event for which all hotel chains tend to suspend their elite-guarantee benefits.)

I'm really surprised to see the trend here is for airline points. I have found my air miles to add up slowly and have too many restrictions when it comes time to redeem.

On the other hand, I am Diamond VIP at Hilton and I think this is the best deal going. My points multiply rapidly, I am guaranteed a room even when the hotel is officially sold out, I frequently make use of the exec lounge, and I have used my points at some beautiful resorts in Europe on vacation with my family.

I have heard similar things from friends who are faithful to the Marriott program, although I am sticking with Hilton.

- Lindsay

When I travel for work I always stay in Starwood, even if its out of the way. If there are no Starwoods about, I'll stay in whatever appears to be nice. However, travelling on my own dime, I care very little about the hotel. When I travel I spend almost no time in my room and other than a place to sleep and clean up, it has no value for me.

For airfare, the rewards are greater. Since I stay in inexpensive hotels, B&Bs and hostels, hotels matter little. However being trapped on an airplane, I prefer to be as comfortable as possible. I would prefer a free flight since I travel to places where chain hotels don't exist, and prefer an upgrade on a plane to a nice room!

I'm really surprised to see the trend here is for airline points. I have found my air miles to add up slowly and have too many restrictions when it comes time to redeem.

On the other hand, I am Diamond VIP at Hilton and I think this is the best deal going. My points multiply rapidly, I am guaranteed a room even when the hotel is officially sold out, I frequently make use of the exec lounge, and I have used my points at some beautiful resorts in Europe on vacation with my family.

I have heard similar things from friends who are faithful to the Marriott program, although I am sticking with Hilton.

- Lindsay

Interesting to see the different points of view. I status matched from US to DL only last year, however, I was with US since 1985, and was Plat or Chairman's Preferred with US for many years, and also Gold Preferred for many years before that. I never used my miles for domestic travel, always for international travel, where it was really worth big bucks. I traveled THREE TIMES to Asia in business class on US partners (US did not fly to Asia at all until 2008), and never had any trouble picking up two roundtrip business seats for all three trips as long as we were willing to be SLIGHTLY flexible on dates, which was easy to do. I also used miles to travel in US Envoy Class or in Business Class or FC with US partners to Europe on MORE THAN TEN OCCASIONS without any problems whatsoever, except maybe having to fiddle with dates on a couple of trips, though the last few years it did take more date fiddling, I must admit. On one award flight in "semi-domestic" FC, from home in FLL to HNL, it was a major challenge to get the routing done, but all in all, that was my only real complaint over all of those years with award tix on US. It was never a problem for me though, truly. Now, I have not tried to pick up any award tix in First or Business Class on DL or any DL Partners yet, so I do not know how easy or difficult it will be as a Gold Medallion member, only time will tell for me. Marriott has been great too, but since I have always used miles for BIG $$$$ FC or BC tix international travel, that was always my goal. It is usually on that same trip, maybe to London or Paris that I am using Marriott points for a hotel that costs dollar equivalent of $500-700 per night, but have not had trouble with that either, but as a 14 year Platinum with Marriott, I would hope not. Again, it always depends on your point of view, right?

OT, I'm sorry, but in the context of your comment, I didn't get what made you switch from US, or switch to DL, though your handle indicates the answer to the first. I am not a Delta hater, but I think you are going to find it a lot harder to redeem with Delta than your experience with US. Their recent changes have made it so for me. I have a lot of SkyMiles remaining, and truly feel that I waited one year/devaluation too long. True about all the programs, but DL's new tiered redemption schedule is a smackdown.

Yes, but it was getting to the point that I was getting almost no upgrades with US for regular domestic travel, since US was changing all of the rules, and reducing the size of the first class cabins in so many of their planes in domestic first for complimentary upgrades. When they started reducing the sizes of the international envoy class cabins too, then I knew that it was going to cause a change in the opportunities to receive award travel in envoy/business, or to upgrade, and in addition, they raised the minimum fair required for upgrades from international economy to international business class, in addition to the number of miles required. It just became too much, and then too much more, and then way too much......and then unbearable. At least with DL, I get upgraded about 85% of the time on domestic travel. I have not tried international travel yet, not for paid, and not for award, so only time will tell.

Does it always work out that way? I agree with you that award travel is the best way to go, and I use it for international business and first class travel whenever possible. However, if I have a very specific date in mind, and cannot deviate from it for whatever reason, it is not always possible to find award seats for those dates because of limited supply, so what do you do when that happens?

I pull out my CC and give them the digits. :confused:


Interesting to see the different points of view. I status matched from US to DL only last year, however, I was with US since 1985, and was Plat or Chairman's Preferred with US for many years, and also Gold Preferred for many years before that. I never used my miles for domestic travel, always for international travel, where it was really worth big bucks. I traveled THREE TIMES to Asia in business class on US partners (US did not fly to Asia at all until 2008), and never had any trouble picking up two roundtrip business seats for all three trips as long as we were willing to be SLIGHTLY flexible on dates, which was easy to do. I also used miles to travel in US Envoy Class or in Business Class or FC with US partners to Europe on MORE THAN TEN OCCASIONS without any problems whatsoever, except maybe having to fiddle with dates on a couple of trips, though the last few years it did take more date fiddling, I must admit. On one award flight in "semi-domestic" FC, from home in FLL to HNL, it was a major challenge to get the routing done, but all in all, that was my only real complaint over all of those years with award tix on US. It was never a problem for me though, truly. Now, I have not tried to pick up any award tix in First or Business Class on DL or any DL Partners yet, so I do not know how easy or difficult it will be as a Gold Medallion member, only time will tell for me. Marriott has been great too, but since I have always used miles for BIG $$$$ FC or BC tix international travel, that was always my goal. It is usually on that same trip, maybe to London or Paris that I am using Marriott points for a hotel that costs dollar equivalent of $500-700 per night, but have not had trouble with that either, but as a 14 year Platinum with Marriott, I would hope not. Again, it always depends on your point of view, right?

You are amazing! Do you put your pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us? :p

Question for you about Marriott, do you own any time shares with them? I didn't see if you mention redeeming for their travel packages (which are a great value), have you done that?

I am not sure what the reason for your "one pants leg at a time" reference was, other than trying to be mean. I was just talking about my own personal experiences, is there something wrong with that?

No, I do not own any time shares with Marriott.

No, I have not used Marriott points to redeen for any travel packages yet, though I have considered it. I have only redeemed points for hotel stays thus far. I may try packages in the future, especially since I have not accumulated a lot of miles with Delta yet.

I am not sure what the reason for your "one pants leg at a time" reference was, other than trying to be mean. I was just talking about my own personal experiences, is there something wrong with that?

No, I do not own any time shares with Marriott.

No, I have not used Marriott points to redeen for any travel packages yet, though I have considered it. I have only redeemed points for hotel stays thus far. I may try packages in the future, especially since I have not accumulated a lot of miles with Delta yet.

Mean? I was joking, thus the smiley. :D

It was a reference to you being superhuman with what you were able to accomplish with your miles/points etc. Nothing mean at all, it was complimentary if anything. Sorry it wasn't taken that way.

Easily the airlines tiers:
- Elite security lines is almost a category of itself and i've certainly seen a lot of long lines ... I was able to skirt. Ever fly much in and out of Las Vegas with the elite line?
- Fees. I can't begin to calculate how much money I've saved when traveling with wife and friends and was able to bypass and baggage fees for checked luggage (note i excluded myself because i'm a carryon kind of traveler).
- Free TV on Frontier (as a hotel elite member, i don't get to watch free pay-TV movies)
- And the E-plus on United. The legroom alone as an elite is worthy of a decision of United is your airline. Others have to get lucky or pay for it.

As for hotels, I hear the notice about suites, etc. But I'm the kind of traveler that gets in after 10 pm and out the door by 8 am. Suite or no suite, I never have been able to actually enjoy or use it. Not there enough on a regular basis.

I would go with the airline status. Usually the elite bonus mileage is better for airlines than hotels, I am free of the luggage fees, and the elite desk comes in very handy during irrops. Plus, though I can redeem points easier for hotels, top tier airline status usually gives you redemption options and benefits on other carriers through alliances.

Airline status. Even if a lot of travel is in paid J, there are times when having top tier status can assist - notably in IROPs.

For my purposes, hotel status is not important (though I am a member of some programs, largely due to circumstance) - but there are always many many hotel options in places I visit on work or pleasure, and the promise of a minor upgrade/free tchotchke/free internet isn't enough to justify staying in a chain.

The question is academic, of course. It is hard to have one without having the other. I look for value when I spend my money, and status sometimes will turn me. But the benefits are sufficiently unpredictable to factor in much. I am surprised about attitudes on this site about personal travel vs business travel. I will gladly spend more money on personal travel if it gives better value, since I answer to nobody else (well.....other than spouse). On business, someone approving the expense has their say as well. Having been a former company owner, I find it appalling the poor value decisions made by employees (comfort, convenience, price) to maximize "perceived benefits" with affinity programs. But then, I am just getting old and cranky.

I would think so.

The question is academic, of course. It is hard to have one without having the other.

I don't have both because my clients vary and I tend to stay in hotels near them and only get to the silver or gold levels (and never diamond/plat).

I vote for airlines, although the value of elite status is diminishing. I like the Elite lines for getting through security and, in the rare event I need to go to the ticket agent, that too. As Plat on AA, I avoid charges and get priority (though haven't gotten an upgrade on AA in years). As BA Gold, I get entry into the F lounge at LHR, faster lines (sometimes), occasional upgrades, and a mediocre massage at LHR every once in a while. Since I'm usually travelling in business class internationally, I'd get into the lounges and the elite lines anyway.

I would value getting upgraded to be able to use the Exec lounges. Priority Club Plat does very little. I'm considering getting the Hilton Amex Surpass and shifting $40K over to get Diamond, because that should get lounge access. I don't really care that much about suites (except when I'm staying someplace for a week or two, which isn't frequent, or if my wife were traveling with me).

Airlines for me. A hotel is just a bed to me - I'm not planning on spending much time in the hotel (unless it's a resort destination) - I'm there to sleep. Give me a clean bed, safe neighborhood, I'm happy. When my eyes are shut, I don't know if I'm in a Four Points or in a suite at a 5-star resort.

Sure, the hotels (notably SPG for me) have much better redeption options, but I tend to enjoy a J class seat a bit more than a hotel room.

Fairmont Plat is the better than 1K, so long as I can stay at a Fairmont (currently work has me somewhere without one :( ). Fresh baked cookies and milk is a nice welcome gift and they are generous with room upgrades. Free nights are good throughout the chain, no blackouts or cat 1-7 pricing. Many other soft benefits too.

Again, I think it depends on the individual's travel pattern, but for me, airline status clearly wins. Though I think AA has devalued its eVIPs to some extent, I have found access to the EXP desk to be priceless during IRROPS (and the general ability to avoid the back of the plane and the non-elite security lines really makes a difference for me).
I've certainly benefited from Hyatt Diamond status and I loved my last Ambassador UG at an IC, but I generally don't spend much waking time in the hotel room, unless it's a resort, and usually my stays at those are at non-chain properties anyway.

I just joined HHonors this year (and committed to earning elite status), but AA Plat gets the nod so far.

Thanks to the elite security checkpoint at LAX, I can go from the parking garage to my exit-row seat in 10 to 15 minues. I love the free checked baggage. If I'm gone for more than a day or two, I pack a suitcase full of great wine so I have the good sh*t to drink when I arrive in the hotel, rather than drinking warm plonk at the hotel lounge for $9 a glass.

I flew eight 2xEQM and triple-miles LAX-BOS flights this spring for ~$1600, easily netting me my Plat status through Feb 2011 and scoring 120K FF miles, which I plan to redeem for two RT tix to South Africa next summer to enjoy the World Cup (with a weeklong stopovers in Madrid on the outbound and London on the return).

Perhaps I'll even stay in a Hilton during that trip.

One other great AA Plat benefit: I have never waited more than 10 seconds on hold when calling the Platinum desk, vs. as much as several minutes at the regular Aadvantage desk.

I just joined HHonors this year (and committed to earning elite status), but AA Plat gets the nod so far.

Thanks to the elite security checkpoint at LAX, I can go from the parking garage to my exit-row seat in 10 to 15 minues. I love the free checked baggage. If I'm gone for more than a day or two, I pack a suitcase full of great wine so I have the good sh*t to drink when I arrive in the hotel, rather than drinking warm plonk at the hotel lounge for $9 a glass.

I flew eight 2xEQM and triple-miles LAX-BOS flights this spring for ~$1600, easily netting me my Plat status through Feb 2011 and scoring 120K FF miles, which I plan to redeem for two RT tix to South Africa next summer to enjoy the World Cup (with a weeklong stopovers in Madrid on the outbound and London on the return).

Perhaps I'll even stay in a Hilton during that trip.

One other great AA Plat benefit: I have never waited more than 10 seconds on hold when calling the Platinum desk, vs. as much as several minutes at the regular Aadvantage desk.

Wow! Sounds like you have life all figured out. I bet there isn't but a couple thousand other FTer's who enjoy the same benefits. Enjoy. ^

Wow! Sounds like you have life all figured out. I bet there isn't but a couple thousand other FTer's who enjoy the same benefits. Enjoy. ^

Hah! Life is certainly not "all" figured out, but at the halfway mark, I'm darn-tootin' sure that I can NOT tolerate hot, overpriced wine sourced by subpar beverage directors and served by bartenders who don't have the first clue about wine service.

If the bev mgrs who ran the chain hotels had more leeway to pick their own selections, knew what they were doing, and had the guts to trust that we wine lovers out there will open our wallets to try interesting new wines -- and if we hotel elites had access to their private cellars! -- well, then, maybe the hotel elite status would edge out.

Until then, I'll just have to suffer through my private collection and my AA Platinum perks.

The UPSIDE, of course, is that as I drink my way through my private reserve, my suitcase lightens up, and provides ample room to pack souvenirs from the trip.

!!

Hi, Schley,

I just noticed you're based in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Well, I would think ANYONE (who drinks) traveling there would devote a suitcase to a few bottles. I've heard how hard it is to get a kooktale there, so bringing one's own would be crucial. (And thus, being able to check a free second bag devoted to one's stash would be another nod toward the airline elites.)

No?

Let's see...

1) Reservation: Airline (faster response, elimination of some fees [subject to airline program and level] - there is more need for people to call airlines for reservation issues than hotels)

2) Check-in/Check-out (arrivals): Airline (ability to check-in at business or first class lines allows passengers to by-pass one of the more stressful parts of 'travel' also having elite status provides one with better priority service when experiencing irregular operation (at hotels, guest rarely experience 'walk' situation - hotels being full and not able to honor the confirmed reservation). We can also consider priority baggage and additional baggage allowance as a big factor in deciding the value of airline elite program

3) Upgrade: Hotel program (especially with SPG, guests often get a nice upgrades to suites that normally costs at least 50% more than what one pays for the originally booked room [normally standard]. If we factor Royal Ambassador program, and Hyatt Gold Passport, etc... upgrade program is much better for hotels than airlines in general. Also consider amount of time spent at hotels as opposed to 'in-air' is more significant - I guess there could be a debate as to being in a confined space for a same amount of time as opposed to a hotel room/facility can be a significant factor to consider in deciding the value of upgrade).

4) Awards: Tie
This is hard to determine as there are so many ways we can calculate values for the return. I think each airline and hotel programs have its own point/mileage value maximizing redemptions and how one views it has 'maximizing' depends on each person's preference. So... this one is difficult to say.

Overall, Airline elite program seems to be slightly more valuable, but again, all of this depends on one's travel and stay pattern. If one flies less frequently but stays at hotels more, then hotel elite status is more desirable. If one flies more and stays less at hotels, then airline elite status is more desirable. Nonetheless, considering there are more choices for hotels world-wide (meant to say there are more alternatives to accommodation choices in a given location) as opposed to airlines (for given routing), airline status can generally give more value to customers than the hotel status in my opinion.

If one flies more and stays less at hotels, then airline elite status is more desirable.

Excellent point. I fall into this camp. Many times, going to visit mom, dad, a friend, family reunion -- on all of these trips, I have no need for a hotel.

$0.02.

On the upgrade front, both hotels and airlines have two categories: plain old upgrades and...MEANINGFUL upgrades. :)

Airlines are tightening up across the board on meaningful upgrades - that is, the long-haul three-cabin J/F seats. They'll still give out domestic U.S. upgrades like candy, but you are almost always required to pay a co-pay (either a direct fixed amount or a buy-up to a particular fare) in addition to a lot of miles for the seat. Top-tiers gets SWU's which are more generous, but I think by now most airlines have attached some restrictions to these. For example, I recently booked a trip using United SWU's - my effective co-pay per SWU was about $71 on a TATL trip.

(Do AA VIPOW's have any fare restrictions? I recall using one many years ago on an instant-purchase L fare to CDG that was about $350 R/T all in from MCI. I just handed the paper cert over to an agent and got my C seat assignment back.)

With hotels, the parallel is that all elites usually get "nice" rooms. C-level, high floors, far from elevators, the "desirable" view, etc. Those are the day-to-day upgrades. But Starwood in particular seems to have an advantage in that they give them top-tiers a lot of meaningful upgrades (true suites) - plus they allow the rest of us to confirm those upgrades on awards. Granted, upgrade awards are capacity controlled, but I've usually been successful at getting them.

Top-tier at Marriott rarely gets a major upgrade. I get the same "desirable" rooms I always got as a Gold. In my past 150 nights, I've gotten 1 large suite for 2 nights on a weekend. (It was at the Napa Marriott, a hotel which most FT'ers despise.)

well, I'd have to think of my worst AND best experience with each:

American Executive Platinum Status:

worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)

Hilton Honors Diamond:

worst experience: can't really think of one
best experience: staying for one week free at hotel in Rome; they upgraded our room with fantastic view, had our own separate check in room when arrived, gave us a private tour of the hotel - they really made us feel like celebrities)

that being said - I think if I were to choose, I would actually pick the hotel points to save rather than airline. Flying coach is not that bad (unless it's a really long flight). And I'd rather have nice, free room to stay in wherever I go.

well, I'd have to think of my worst AND best experience with each:

American Executive Platinum Status:

worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)

Does AA allocate any extra award availability to EXP? I know UA does for its 1K's, but it's only coach and it's only on UA metal. So the F awards we can redeem to Europe are the same seats any MileagePlus member can redeem.

best experience: staying for one week free at hotel in Rome; they upgraded our room with fantastic view, had our own separate check in room when arrived, gave us a private tour of the hotel - they really made us feel like celebrities)

Cool - reading the HHonors board, it sounds like some Diamonds have been getting jobbed by that hotel in recent months/years. Glad to hear some people still have good experiences there.

that being said - I think if I were to choose, I would actually pick the hotel points to save rather than airline. Flying coach is not that bad (unless it's a really long flight). And I'd rather have nice, free room to stay in wherever I go.

That's the beauty: you don't have to choose. :) You can fly J/F...and check in to a free hotel room when you get there! ^

well, I'd have to think of my worst AND best experience with each:

American Executive Platinum Status:

worst experience: not being upgraded on an 8 hour flight (too many people have elite status on airlines these days!)
best experience: using miles for free first class tickets to Italy (but we had to fly through three cities to get there! they really screw you with the layovers when using miles)

Hilton Honors Diamond:

worst experience: can't really think of one
best experience: staying for one week free at hotel in Rome; they upgraded our room with fantastic view, had our own separate check in room when arrived, gave us a private tour of the hotel - they really made us feel like celebrities)

that being said - I think if I were to choose, I would actually pick the hotel points to save rather than airline. Flying coach is not that bad (unless it's a really long flight). And I'd rather have nice, free room to stay in wherever I go.

Thanks, Moops. Your bunk experience on the 8-hour flight is the ugly side of "dilution" (a concept I don't generally buy into -- statistically, people have to be earning more often than they're redeeming). I'm sorry to hear about that. (The All-Star Game is another dilution dilemma, but that's definitely another thread.)

It's good to hear you say that so far you can't name a "worst" experience with HH.

Happy travels!
**

I was forced to fly 9 whole hours in coach on an airline without status, instead of being up front. My 14 day stay in Hawaii have been on based rewards that were upgraded to Ocean Facing and Ocean Front (1 week each, Marriott, SPG) rooms, with spacious layouts.

Hmmm. 9 hours vs. 2 weeks. I'll take hotel status, thank you.