JetBlue TrueBlue - JFK terminal 6 will be rebuilding new international arrivals

Hi all,

Rumors that I read the forums from a.net to says about old T6 will be torn it down and it will have to be redevelopment new terminal 6 with CBP facilities. I knows where I found out T5 will have to be installed new CBP facility but, they don't have go to another terminal. It will be much easier access in B6 new terminal 5. Let's speculations begin where I can see brand new terminal 6 will have easy access to get clear at Customs & Immigrations facility. Pretty soon, Port Authority will have to be demolished old terminal 6. I remember where I went to JFK from few years ago. We went to old terminal 6 but, it was very ugly and are very old terminals for a long time. That's why we didn't like it at all. Its so horrible where we took on B6 for PHX-JFK-PHX by 2 years ago. So however, I will suggested try to look for brand new terminal 6 will have more convenient for international flight is incoming into JFK. I think LH & EI will have to be moved into T6 sometime in the future. I'm pretty confident where JFK new terminal 6 will have to begin redevelopment sometime in the future if they are approved from Port Authority. This is particular consideration from JFK terminal 6 will have wait to get finalized approved from NY Port Authority. Thanks all.

Regards

I should probably know this, but do JetBlue's international flights still arrive T4? If this is true about T5, and I tend to believe it will happen at some point, it could only help (by a little bit) if JetBlue's international arrivals went there instead of T4. I did hear that plans of T5 having CBP facilities but no idea when.

Also, a bit off topic, and I know it's been discussed before - what's the deal with the original T5 TWA building? Last I heard it was going to be used as an optional entrance/lobby to T5.

I should probably know this, but do JetBlue's international flights still arrive T4? Yes, they still arrive at T4.

If this is true about T5, and I tend to believe it will happen at some point, it could only help (by a little bit) if JetBlue's international arrivals went there instead of T4. I did hear that plans of T5 having CBP facilities but no idea when.
I highly doubt that CBP facilities will show up in T5. It is not built for that. There would be no way to isolate the passengers from the gate to the screening facility. There is no room for the checkpoints nor for the additional baggage claim requirements. It was built specifically as a domestic terminal and I doubt that will change.

If a T6 international arrivals facility were built I'd still be surprised to hear of LH or EI moving to it. LH just invested a rather huge chunk of coin in building their new lounge there.


Also, a bit off topic, and I know it's been discussed before - what's the deal with the original T5 TWA building? Last I heard it was going to be used as an optional entrance/lobby to T5.I haven't heard of any changes on that front.

In case anyone did not know what this acronym stood for

CBP Customs and Border Protection

I had to look it up.

In case anyone did not know what this acronym stood for

CBP Customs and Border Protection

I had to look it up.

Yes, it is Customs and Border Protection. I think you meant it is correctly one where the international flights arrivals into terminal 5. I think I am completely agree with you. It will have constructions with CBP facilities in the terminal 5. It will have more convenient for B6 flight arriving into terminal 5 instead of going to T4. Because T4 are very extremely overcrowded while the foreign populations are arrived in T4. So they don't want go to T4 due to internationsl flights arriving into JFK. So however, T5 will have easy access to gets CBP facilities.

I will guaranteed B6 will have to decide to begin renovation T5 need to be setup CBP facilitiies. Perhaps, It will be more comfortable where B6 flight will not to be towed away from T4. So however, it will matter under of particular consideration. B6 will have to take the advantage of it.

I will guaranteed B6 will have to decide to begin renovation T5 need to be setup CBP facilitiies. Perhaps, It will be more comfortable where B6 flight will not to be towed away from T4. So however, it will matter under of particular consideration. B6 will have to take the advantage of it.

It would definitely require renovations. It would also require the cooperation of the USICS (what CBP is actually called now) in terms of being willing to staff another checkpoint. I doubt that they would want to do that for the relatively few flights that B6 has clearing there each day. It is not an efficient use of personnel.

And I would be VERY surprised to hear that B6 or the PANYNJ are looking to invest the significant capital needed to build out the facilities in T5. The clearance facilities take up a significant amount of space, with the additional baggage facilities and other inspection requirements. T5 was not designed to have them and it would be a major undertaking or construction project to make it happen. Having a renewed T6 become a USICS gateway is more likely, but that doesn't really mean much, as it is still very far out and rather unlikely at this point.

It would definitely require renovations. It would also require the cooperation of the USICS (what CBP is actually called now) in terms of being willing to staff another checkpoint. I doubt that they would want to do that for the relatively few flights that B6 has clearing there each day. It is not an efficient use of personnel. At this point, about 20% of B6 flights (10 orginations) arriving at JFK are from locations requiring CBP upon arrival and B6 continues to expand its presence in the Caribbean and Latin American markets.

All in all, currently, 20 flights a day arrive to JFK from locations requiring CBP clearance at T-4.

Were a CBP facility to be built at T-5 that would certainly be the smallest volume of any CBP facility, but not much less than T-7.

The build out could be relatively simple and is likely already accounted for in the original design.

The build out could be relatively simple and is likely already accounted for in the original design.

I do not believe either of these to be correct. During the T5 tour we did last summer they stated explicitly that it wasn't designed to handle USICS and that T4 would continue to be used for that.

You've passed through the terminal a few times, right? What "relatively simple" changes would you make? There is no space for baggage handling in the existing terminal. There is no way to isolate the gates to funnel people into an arrivals hall. Without these two critical pieces it will never happen. And I do not believe that either can happen trivially.

Wasn't there at one point a "phase 2" of T5? I thought it was an extension where T6 stands now, maybe they can build it out there.

Many possiblities but we need the economy to pick up first.

I do not believe either of these to be correct. During the T5 tour we did last summer they stated explicitly that it wasn't designed to handle USICS and that T4 would continue to be used for that.

You've passed through the terminal a few times, right? What "relatively simple" changes would you make? There is no space for baggage handling in the existing terminal. There is no way to isolate the gates to funnel people into an arrivals hall. Without these two critical pieces it will never happen. And I do not believe that either can happen trivially.

Gates 22-27 (or a portion thereof) could be partioned quite easily.

In baggage claim. carousels 5 & 6 or just 6 could also be partitioned. There is already a separate escalator/staircase to this side of baggage claim. The central escalator/staircase could still serve domestic baggage claim.

That would, however, not leave much room adimttedly for passport control and customs...

Gates 22-27 (or a portion thereof) could be partioned quite easily.
USICS requires that passengers arriving on international flights proceed to immigration without a chance to "mix" with other passengers. That is why airports with international arrivals in the USA have a second hallway or second floor where those folks walk. It isn't as simple as just walling off the gate area unless they want to designate the gates as only for arrival. And if they are going to do that then why not continue to use T4 and have the benefit of additional capacity at T5 for more domestic flights.

Or were you thinking of something else in terms of "partitioning" the space?

In baggage claim. carousels 5 & 6 or just 6 could also be partitioned. There is already a separate escalator/staircase to this side of baggage claim. The central escalator/staircase could still serve domestic baggage claim.

That would, however, not leave much room adimttedly for passport control and customs...
The baggage might work but they'd need space there for the customs folks to operate. I just don't see it happening.

USICS requires that passengers arriving on international flights proceed to immigration without a chance to "mix" with other passengers. That is why airports with international arrivals in the USA have a second hallway or second floor where those folks walk. It isn't as simple as just walling off the gate area unless they want to designate the gates as only for arrival. And if they are going to do that then why not continue to use T4 and have the benefit of additional capacity at T5 for more domestic flights.

Or were you thinking of something else in terms of "partitioning" the space?


The baggage might work but they'd need space there for the customs folks to operate. I just don't see it happening.When I wrote "partioning" I meant keeping the area sterile as you describe above.

That could easily be accomplished.

Also, just like at many airports (including EWR Terminal B) the "sterile" partition could be modular so that certain gates could be used from both domestic and international, as well as simplifying the departure process of international flights, wherein the sterile partition is opened and closed as needed.

All of that is certainly no obstacle at T-5.

Whether or not they want to do that, I don't know, but it's certainly possible.

B6 already has quite a few international arrivals and they are forecasting an expansion into the Caribbean and Latin America. Perhaps the cost and hassle of building these sterile areas at T-5 would ultimately outweigh the cost and inconvenience of towing a/c from T-4.

Also, T-4 is a large terminal, but if B6 continues to expand its international, they might run out gate slots there.

I highly doubt they will expand T-5 to handle the international traffic . If they had any intention of doing so they would have included space for it in the building . What they may end up doing is add a bag check after customs so that those arrival passengers do not have to carry their bags to the airtrain and back to T-5 for their continuing flight . They may also use T-6 for an international arrival building but I don't think in this climate that will do anything major .

since T-5 was TWAs old Intl Term, I dont understand why B6 didnt incorporate TWs old CBP area into the new plan

since T-5 was TWAs old Intl Term, I dont understand why B6 didnt incorporate TWs old CBP area into the new plan

Because B6's T-5 is completely new, except for the old front bldg of TWA T-5 (the soaring wing bldg) and the two tubes, all of which is unused right now.

Because B6's T-5 is completely new, except for the old front bldg of TWA T-5 (the soaring wing bldg) and the two tubes, all of which is unused right now.

so what? They probably knew when they were designing the place that they would eventually be doing Intl Flights, and could have Im sure some way incorporated what was there for CBP into what they were building, or simply rebuild a CBP area.

I could understand if T-6 was what they would have kept , since T-6 was TWs Domestic Term and never had CBP in it

so what? They probably knew when they were designing the place that they would eventually be doing Intl Flights, and could have Im sure some way incorporated what was there for CBP into what they were building, or simply rebuild a CBP area.

I could understand if T-6 was what they would have kept , since T-6 was TWs Domestic Term and never had CBP in it

T5 has absolutely nothing to do with the TWA terminal. USICS had shut down operations there years ago. And then the entire building was leveled and rebuilt from scratch. Suggesting that T5 should have USICS because it used to be a TWA terminal really doesn't make any sense at all.

If they wanted to they could have designed it with the ability to add USICS easily, either with a second walkway for inbound passengers or an elevated or lower level passage. I do not think they did based on their plans to continue using T4 for that functionality and the fact that the feds did not want to staff another facility at JFK.

I think the long term JFK thinking goes something like,

LH, OS, LX, UA, AC to a new T6/T5 complex

JL to T7

NH to T1

T1 connects to T2 and T3 to form a ST complex with DL and its partners

T7 and then perhaps T8 as AA expands it housing the OW carriers

T6 becomes the *A terminal anchored by LH, OS, LX, SN (BD with flights to LHR), NH, AC, SQ etc. and international arrivals for B6.

T6 would be new construction maybe built and owned by LH in the same way BA operates T7.

It would also require the cooperation of the USICS (what CBP is actually called now)

Actually, it is CBP. CIS handles applications for immigration benefits, CBP does border inspections.

T5 has absolutely nothing to do with the TWA terminal. USICS had shut down operations there years ago. And then the entire building was leveled and rebuilt from scratch. Suggesting that T5 should have USICS because it used to be a TWA terminal really doesn't make any sense at all.

If they wanted to they could have designed it with the ability to add USICS easily, either with a second walkway for inbound passengers or an elevated or lower level passage. I do not think they did based on their plans to continue using T4 for that functionality and the fact that the feds did not want to staff another facility at JFK.

Sorry but it was known wasnt it that B6 was gonna be calling it home and that B6 was gonna be getting into the Intl arena to some extent. Thusly B6 could have made a fuss and designed the new T-5 to accommadate its furture expansions, no different then Term1 which when it was Eastern I believe it didnt have CBP. Or AAs Term which was redone with expended CBP

LH, OS, LX, UA, AC to a new T6/T5 complex

JL to T7

NH to T1

T1 connects to T2 and T3 to form a ST complex with DL and its partners

T6 becomes the *A terminal anchored by LH, OS, LX, SN (BD with flights to LHR), NH, AC, SQ etc. and international arrivals for B6.

No, I think NH will be in T6 along with Star Alliance is OS, LH, AC, UA, LX. It will have to split another foreign airlines out of T4. I knows some of few airlines with ST alliance will be moved into T1 along with AF, SU, OK, AM, KE, DL, NW, AZ. I'm sure they will have to decide to started redevelopment the T1/T2/T3.

I remember TG has been discontinuation from mid-2008 due to high cost of the fuel. I remember that I saw TG is in JFK before and it was on operated A340-500. It is longest flight out of BKK-JFK-BKK.

It will have to gets finalization approvals from Port Authority. This is more organizations where T6 will begin to be built CBP facilities. I realize that I knows B6 old terminal are very ugly & dirties. So I can't be complaints about it. It's time to be demolished old T6 immediately.

T5 has absolutely nothing to do with the TWA terminal. USICS had shut down operations there years ago. And then the entire building was leveled and rebuilt from scratch. Suggesting that T5 should have USICS because it used to be a TWA terminal really doesn't make any sense at all.

If they wanted to they could have designed it with the ability to add USICS easily, either with a second walkway for inbound passengers or an elevated or lower level passage. I do not think they did based on their plans to continue using T4 for that functionality and the fact that the feds did not want to staff another facility at JFK.Just to be precise, part of the TWA structure is still standing, although currently unused.

Second, it is most certainly possible to adapt the current B6 terminal to international arrivals with a few modifications (a wing of the terminal could easily be partitioned from the rest for "sterile" int'l arrivals, and there already are two walkways from the gate level to the lower baggage claim level, so that separation could be maintained for intl and domestic baggage claim).

Whether or not they would want to build something like at T-5 I have no idea, but it would be possible.

Actually, it is CBP. CIS handles applications for immigration benefits, CBP does border inspections.
Indeed, and both are necessary at the airport.
Sorry but it was known wasnt it that B6 was gonna be calling it home and that B6 was gonna be getting into the Intl arena to some extent. Thusly B6 could have made a fuss and designed the new T-5 to accommadate its furture expansions, no different then Term1 which when it was Eastern I believe it didnt have CBP. Or AAs Term which was redone with expended CBP
They could have but they didn't. That's my point. There is nowhere to put USICS officers in the existing space. There is nowhere to put the CBP folks following baggage claim. And "just adding a little on to the end" isn't really a trivial process.

Were T6 rebuilt as a *A terminal it would have the facilities but that is very much up in the air right now. Right now the report of that happening is from a.net and, well, those reports are often about as accurate as the rumors that float around FT. ;) I doubt that the PANYNJ is looking forward to spending a chunk of coin to add gates and facilities at JFK when it is already basically full from an airspace perspective.

Indeed, and both are necessary at the airport.


Both stations are manned by CBP. When DHS was created, INS was broken up into 3 bureaus. CBP took over the border inspection, as well as customs inspections from Treasury. USCIS is not at the border, and ICE normally doesn't conduct any kind of routine inspection.

Both stations are manned by CBP.
And both stations are necessary and there still isn't room for them. ;)

No, I think NH will be in T6 along with Star Alliance is OS, LH, AC, UA, LX. It will have to split another foreign airlines out of T4. I knows some of few airlines with ST alliance will be moved into T1 along with AF, SU, OK, AM, KE, DL, NW, AZ. I'm sure they will have to decide to started redevelopment the T1/T2/T3.

I remember TG has been discontinuation from mid-2008 due to high cost of the fuel. I remember that I saw TG is in JFK before and it was on operated A340-500. It is longest flight out of BKK-JFK-BKK.

It will have to gets finalization approvals from Port Authority. This is more organizations where T6 will begin to be built CBP facilities. I realize that I knows B6 old terminal are very ugly & dirties. So I can't be complaints about it. It's time to be demolished old T6 immediately.

You're right - if the alliances align terminals at JFK NH would shift to a new T6 most likely; T1 could also perhaps handle DL overflow instead of the IAT.

DL has announced plans to connect T2 and T3 to T4.

Just to be precise, part of the TWA structure is still standing, although currently unused.


OT: Is is possible to still go into the old part of the TWA structure?

I got some nice pics of it from up on the AirTrain a couple weeks ago. I had some spare time at JFK and thought about getting off the AirTrain and seeing if it was open to the public. Wasn't quite sure, so I stayed on the AirTrain to T7, which is where I was headed.

DL has announced plans to connect T2 and T3 to T4.
By more than just the bus? That would be a VERY long walkway.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=jfk+airport&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=22.511228,56.601563&ie=UTF8&ll=40.641914,-73.78566&spn=0.005243,0.013819&t=h&z=16
It would also likely interfere with the taxiway and gate areas on T4. Doesn't seem too likely.

OT: Is is possible to still go into the old part of the TWA structure?

Nope. Not open to the public yet.

If this is accurate, T1 --> T2 and T3 --> T4 connectors are planned for Summer 2010....

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4414014/1/#1

If this is accurate, T1 --> T2 and T3 --> T4 connectors are planned for Summer 2010....

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4414014/1/#1Big "if" there and there is the added issue of the logistics and loss of gate space for the existing carriers while the construction happens - particularly the loss of two gates at T4. They could do it but it is going to be a mess while that happens. And those renderings show an enclosed walkway/terminal connecting the buildings. I don't believe they've broken ground yet so the prospect of having something completed in 12-16 months (summer 2010) seems low.

It would be cool if B6 took the old Saarinen terminal and made it their international arrivals building. It would house all the international flight equipment etc. You build an enclosed, elevated walkway to the tarmac near T6 or even into T6 if it isn't demolished while closing it off to non international flights. Folks taking a B6 int'l flight could be dropped off right in front of the TWA terminal. People connecting from a domestic city could utilize the walkways from the new T5. Everything's solved except for maybe space considerations with all that int'l equipment in the Saarinen building. And that walk way wouldn't be all the cheap, especially going under the existing one to T6's Airtrain station.

Note that another use [read rumor] for T6 that I've heard is turning at least part of it over to JFK domestic carriers or pre-clearance flights [Canada and Shannon, Ireland]. Sun Country, United Airlines, US Airways and Virgin America all operate domestic flights and could possibly use 8-9 gates or more without interfering with T5. Maybe BA's LCY flight could use this too?

Maybe BA's LCY flight could use this too?

No. It will have to stay in T7 where the flight is departed out of BA terminal.

It would be cool if B6 took the old Saarinen terminal and made it their international arrivals building. It would house all the international flight equipment etc. You build an enclosed, elevated walkway to the tarmac near T6 or even into T6 if it isn't demolished while closing it off to non international flights. Folks taking a B6 int'l flight could be dropped off right in front of the TWA terminal. People connecting from a domestic city could utilize the walkways from the new T5. Everything's solved except for maybe space considerations with all that int'l equipment in the Saarinen building. And that walk way wouldn't be all the cheap, especially going under the existing one to T6's Airtrain station.

This would be a huge problem. The Saarinen building is actually rather small. And the walkways you suggest would be quite an ordeal to build. It would be rather long to get from the Saarinen building to T6. Even if it was integrated into T5 there would be issues with routing passengers from the gates there - even more than just getting them down to baggage claim in the existing building - that would make this a nonstarter, IMO.

Please delete.