Alitalia MilleMiglia - Another nail in the coffin

In the interest of full disclosure, I booked a flight on AirOne/Alitalia knowing they had terrible customer service, but were restructuring and in the process of making things better. That was my mistake and one that I won't make again.

Shortly after booking, our (my wife and I) direct flight from Chicago to Milan was changed to a Chicago/Rome/Milan indirect. Annoying with international travel, but not a big deal in the end as our luggage was checked straight through. There's nothing worse than having to get bags, go through customs, them check in again after a 9 hour flight. Unfortunately, it did change our arrival time by several hours and force the folks we were meeting to wait in the airport for an extra 6 hours. (they were also arriving from the states and had coordinated flight times with us as closely as possible)

During the trip, we decided to cut things 1 day short as the couple we were traveling with were leaving a day earlier. We made the necessary adjustments for hotels and trains with no problem and then turned to the airline. It was impossible to get through via phone to anyone in customer service and since we were spending the last couple days in Milan anyway, we took the bus to the airport to speak to someone directly. The gentleman at the ticket counter was incredibly polite and informed us that there were plenty of seats available on the flights we wanted to take (same flights, but one day earlier), but that he wouldn't be able to let us have them. When asked why, he said that the terms of the fare only allowed travel on a specific day. I understood and said that we would be willing to pay a fee to change the tickets (common in the US and something I've done literally hundreds of times with work travel). He refused. My wife turned on the waterworks (well-timed) and he agreed to call a supervisor, but with the same result. I finally resulted to bringing up the fact that I knew they had recently restructured and were trying to rebuild a customer base. As such, it made all kinds of sense for them to change our flights (at a profit to them), when 1) it was easy to do 2) didn't cost them any money 3) made a customer happy and 4) made the company an extra 100-200 euro. He didn't blink.

My wife and I had a wonderful vacation in Italy and plan to return. We won't be flying AirOne/Alitalia. I recommend everyone else avoid them. In the meantime, we're spending our last night in a Milan hotel, drinking Chianti, ordering room service and defaming folks who can't even be bothered to help themselves. Ciao.

Welcome to FT knowles!

From your post, I have to say that it doesn't seem like Alitalia did anything wrong on this occasion.

Having your nonstop flight changed to a connecting one is certainly annoying, but expected given the restructuring. And this happens with all airlines. Routes are added, dropped and changed all the time. As long as you are timely informed and given options for a better reroute, if available, the airline has done its part. I take it from your post that Alitalia did inform of the change as soon as it happened.

It is up to the passenger to be familiar with the fare rules before booking the ticket. Many fares are completely non-changeable and non-refundable, even for a fee. The tradeoff is that you get a cheaper fare. My only experience on Alitalia was on a very very cheap BCN-FCO-EZE ticket. I bought it knowing full well that changes were not allowed, but I was ok with it because I got a good deal and my travel plans were firm. When I think I may need to make changes, I make sure I buy a ticket with that flexibility.

It seems you were unfamiliar with the fare rules of your ticket, and incorrectly assumed that all fares are changeable by paying a fee. Take it as a lesson learned for the future (on all airlines, not just Alitalia).

By the way, the same is true for rail tickets and hotel bookings - some are completely non-refundable, some refundable with a fee and some fully refundable. Just because in this particular case you were able to change your rail and hotel plans, it doesn't mean this is always the case.

The only point where Alitalia may have failed, according to your post, is in making it difficult to reach a CS representative, which would have saved you a trip to the airport in Milan. I'm not sure what number(s) did you call or how exactly were you unable to speak to someone, so I can't comment about this.

I completely agree with iwillflytheworld

That said, I can't understand how OP's friends had to wait 6 hours at MXP...
The original AP flight was meant to land at MXP at 8:30AM something. The first available legal connection FCO-MXP is the 9:20AM flight, supposed to land at 10:30AM at MXP.

Given the fact the OP already cleared immigration in FCO he would have been faster to get out of the airport making it a 2 hours difference with the original route...
Where do the 6 hours come from?

Then, one of the few things that always worked in AZ is the call center! Usually they answer the phone within 2 minutes wait.

Answering the OP question about "As such, it made all kinds of sense for them to change our flights (at a profit to them), when 1) it was easy to do 2) didn't cost them any money 3) made a customer happy and 4) made the company an extra 100-200 euro"
Why do you think people buy flexible fares (often they are double the price than deep discounted one) if paying the cheapest ticket and a 100€ fee would give the same flexibility?

Then... uhm... the "waterworks".... c'mon...
you were in Italy and ruined your last day just because you wanted not to stay one single day without your friends???? If you planned all the trip together in the first place, why did you choose to leave on different days? And why didn't you call AZ before leaving US as you probably already knew your friends were going back one day earlier? If you read fare conditions, some allow changes for a fee BEFORE departure, but not mid-trip.

Hope you learned the lesson and won't blame the airline for something that - sorry to say that - is just your own fault.

Cheers
maclover

... The gentleman at the ticket counter was incredibly polite and informed us that there were plenty of seats available on the flights we wanted to take (same flights, but one day earlier), but that he wouldn't be able to let us have them. When asked why, he said that the terms of the fare only allowed travel on a specific day. I understood and said that we would be willing to pay a fee to change the tickets (common in the US and something I've done literally hundreds of times with work travel). He refused. My wife turned on the waterworks (well-timed) and he agreed to call a supervisor, but with the same result. I finally resulted to bringing up the fact that I knew they had recently restructured and were trying to rebuild a customer base. As such, it made all kinds of sense for them to change our flights (at a profit to them) ...


If you have written that you were treated in a rude manner, disregarded or humiliated, I would have agreed with your anger. You said it yourself - "The gentleman at the ticket counter was incredibly polite". He explained the airline's rules and did not accept your interpretation of it, meaning you are wrong and he is right. What did you expect? - do you want the poor guy to risk his job just to help you?

All the talk about building a customer base is BS. No one has to bend the rules in order to make customers happy, especially outside the USA. Elsewhere in the world, the customer is not always right, especially when he is really wrong.

All the talk about building a customer base is BS. No one has to bend the rules in order to make customers happy, especially outside the USA. Elsewhere in the world, the customer is not always right, especially when he is really wrong.Since when do U.S. airlines feel they have to make the customer happy?

That comes as real news to me.

One of my favorite shenanigans by American carriers, is CO's "refundable" fares to HKG and PEK which come with a 25% "penalty"....

I recently flew AZ JFK-FCO-VCE. My return was on DL VCE-JFK.

I didn't try to change anything, but I thought the whole AZ experience was fine. Service was marginally better on AZ than DL.

My only problem is that, when I got to VCE, my checked bag didn't make it. As I was moving every day it made getting my bag quite challenging.

At VCE, the baggage service is handled by a contractor. They were exceedingly polite and friendly and also very apologetic ("this is Italy, you know.")

I called a number of times but it was never possible to reach any live human. I had my colleagues in NYC call AZ's 800 # in the U.S. and they were very helpful and proactive.

As it turns out, my bag not making it had nothing to do "with Italy," but with the TSA simply not getting my bag on the plane in time, even though I dropped it off at the baggage security station with close to 2 hours to go before my departure.

"this is America, you know..."

Since when do U.S. airlines feel they have to make the customer happy?

That comes as real news to me.



I was talking about the USA in general and not about airlines. In the USA, it's a common believe that "the customer is always right", even when he is not.

For sure, you will not get a post about "building a customer base" from an Italian (or an Israeli for the matter).

I was talking about the USA in general and not about airlines. In the USA, it's a common believe that "the customer is always right", even when he is not.

For sure, you will not get a post about "building a customer base" from an Italian (or an Israeli for the matter).

Agreed. Certainly "the customer is always right," is a part of the American mercantile lexicon, even if it is often a coded phrade for "the customer always gets the shaft."

Certainly, most Europeans have expectations that are far more limited as customers in their average business transaction...

... very apologetic ("this is Italy, you know.")
."

very often, that is not apologetic at all, it's only a way to avoid any sort of accountability or duty fulfilment or task, etc. - where the task is trying to understand what the problem is, solve it, support customers, etc - with no real commitment in solving the problem.

(It's not our fault) this is ACME, you know...
(It's not our fault) this is Italy, you know...
(Its' not our fault) this is the way things are, you know

Even better, the logic behind that is:

a) It's not our fault ... because...
b) ...this is Italy, you know...
c) ...so what can we do now to help you?
d) Nothing!
d) I'm sorry, I'm not able to do anything! I'd like to, but I'm a just poor boy, I can't!!

So, what they do? Nothing!!
Poor boys...

Sometimes, especially some where, this attitude is mixed with a 'selfish' attitude, so that sounds:
(It's not my fault), this is XXX, you know... (I'm not alike).

Very frequently, there is no relation at all between the problem itself and the mentioned office/ company/industry/country/etc etc, as evidence of the service level - and skills - of this sort of employees.

Sometimes, especially some where, this attitude is mixed with a 'selfish' attitude, so that sounds:
(It's not my fault), this is XXX, you know... (I'm not alike).


Actually, I believe that the "this is Italy, you know" quote by TWA Fan 1 was to say "you are not the first and not the last to come here with this problem - probably on every given day" more than "this is not my fault". As he wrote, the ground staff in VCE were great and it turns out the blame was on TSA in the USA.

As someone who is based in FCO, you of all people should know the phrase "when in Rome ..." :D

Actually, I believe that the "this is Italy, you know" quote by TWA Fan 1 was to say "you are not the first and not the last to come here with this problem - probably on every given day" more than "this is not my fault". As he wrote, the ground staff in VCE were great and it turns out the blame was on TSA in the USA.

As someone who is based in FCO, you of all people should know the phrase "when in Rome ..." :DI think the most interesting part of the story is that the people at VCE went out of their way to be apologetic (the tone was definitely apologetic).

In this case the problem turned out to be at the American end, but, of course, we had no way of knowing that at the beginning.

One thing that should be pointed out is that American airlines can be very sloppy and disorganized. I have had bags mishandled numerous times, even on a short no-stop flight from JFK to Richmond, VA.

I have never had any American baggage office act in an apologetic manner, so I'm thankful to the baggage contractor for being friendly and helpful.

One other note, when my bag was finally delivered I had moved on, and the bag was flown to the Trieste airport. The staff there called me on my U.S. cell phone and sent me an email and I was able to pick up my bag.

Certainly, Italy is not prefect, but it's interesting to note that the U.S. has a much better image in this caregory while it is perhaps not always deserved.

Certainly, Italy is not perfect, but it's interesting to note that the U.S. has a much better image in this caregory while it is perhaps not always deserved.

Well, this is just one experience. In the past 5 years of living in Europe, I can say that European carriers are dismal at lost baggage. In my experience, I can count 9 lost baggage incidents with Air France (LYS, 1 time and CDG, 2 times), Austrian (VIE, 1 time), KLM (AMS and LHR, 1 each), LH (FRA and OSL, 1 each), and Alitalia (FCO, 1 time) being the culprits. I live in VCE. Yes, the contract people are friendly at the window, but to call them and actually talk to a person is near to impossible. Instead, I had to drive to Marco Polo, and stand in their window on the arrivals meeting area side just to get an answer. All airlines eventually got the luggage to me, except OS, who left the luggage out in the rain for 2 days at VIE and when it did arrive, everything was ruined. It took 2 months of phone calls before someone finally authorised payment to me. Air France is marginally better, but just barely. After a fiasco with checked luggage at LYS, they only authorised half of what I asked for, even if they acknowledged I should have received 100%. Then, a full year later, finally someone from the AF baggage centre in PRG called me to let me know they had decided to pay me the other 50%. A YEAR AFTER!

In my many years living in the US, I've had luggage lost by UA, US, AA, and NW. They always paid within a reasonable time and a very fair compensation. Just my experience.

In the end, I don't think my bags know, nor care what airline they are flying or what country they are in. Lost is lost, damaged is damaged.

Thanks for the welcome and feedback. I want to clarify that I'm not angry or upset with the airlines or any of the representatives I spoke with. I fly often enough that I understand the differing fare rules and that there is no obligation to change them (though they all do, if at a steep price). None of this ruined my vacation; we had a great time, even the last day when we were "stuck" in Milan. And by stuck, I mean sitting by the pool drinking wine. It wasn't exactly tough, trust me. The bottom line for me here is that I'd rather not do business with a company that is, at best, indifferent to customers.

To maclover specifically, you make some good points, but unfortunately nothing worked out the way it should have. When our original flight was changed, we weren't given a quick connection in Rome...we sat in the terminal for several hours and arrived in Milan in the late afternoon/early evening. Also, we tried multiple times to change our itinerary before leaving on the trip. Maybe this was an aberration, but we were barely able to get a confirmation number from anyone, let alone speak with someone who was able to make changes.

One last note is that our flight from Rome to Chicago on Saturday was completely full and there were several folks trying to get on the plane that ended up being turned away.

Thanks again for the welcome. I look forward to contributing in a more constructive vein.

Well, this is just one experience. In the past 5 years of living in Europe, I can say that European carriers are dismal at lost baggage. In my experience, I can count 9 lost baggage incidents with Air France (LYS, 1 time and CDG, 2 times), Austrian (VIE, 1 time), KLM (AMS and LHR, 1 each), LH (FRA and OSL, 1 each), and Alitalia (FCO, 1 time) being the culprits. I live in VCE. Yes, the contract people are friendly at the window, but to call them and actually talk to a person is near to impossible. Instead, I had to drive to Marco Polo, and stand in their window on the arrivals meeting area side just to get an answer. All airlines eventually got the luggage to me, except OS, who left the luggage out in the rain for 2 days at VIE and when it did arrive, everything was ruined. It took 2 months of phone calls before someone finally authorised payment to me. Air France is marginally better, but just barely. After a fiasco with checked luggage at LYS, they only authorised half of what I asked for, even if they acknowledged I should have received 100%. Then, a full year later, finally someone from the AF baggage centre in PRG called me to let me know they had decided to pay me the other 50%. A YEAR AFTER!

In my many years living in the US, I've had luggage lost by UA, US, AA, and NW. They always paid within a reasonable time and a very fair compensation. Just my experience.

In the end, I don't think my bags know, nor care what airline they are flying or what country they are in. Lost is lost, damaged is damaged.All true. In my original post, I pointed out that I was never able to reach anybody at the baggage contractor at VCE so I had my colleague call AZ's U.S. 800 number. Without that, I don't think I ever would have seen my bag.

I fly from the U.S. to Europe a tremendous amount, up to as often as 10 times a year, mainly to France. This is the first time I had ever had a bag mishandled; and, as it turned out, it was a U.S. issue.

Then again, I almost never fly internally in Europe (I usually take the train or drive) and rarely connect.

I think one of the huge differences between Europe and the U.S. is the availability of the call center. It's much harder to call AF in France than to reach someone on their U.S. 800 number. Now that I have Skype, just always call the U.S. toll-free number.

As far as bags being mishandled in the U.S., I have had my fair share of bad experiences. One of the worst happened in the spring of 2008 when I was flying ATL-LGA on AirTran.

Five minutes past the scheduled departure we were told the flight was cancelled to due weather and ATC restricitions. We were told then next available flight with confirmable seats was four days later, and that AirTran would not accommodate us on another airline.

Faced with a tight work deadline, I got myself a seat on AirTrain's ATL-PHL and rented a car (at my expense) to get home.

My bags, of course, had been previously checked to LGA, so I went to the customer service counter at ATL for AirTran to see if the bags could be switched to the PHL flight.

I was told that AirTran's bag system dos not allow for any bag tracking. There are luggage tags, but they can only be tracked manually!

So that was that. I was off to PHL and my bags were somewhere in limbo.

No apologies, no sympathy, just a hard-edged "get out of my face" attitude from the AirTran people.

When I got to PHL my bags were obviously not there.

I went to the AirTran baggage office at PHL where the person took my report and smirked, "you know this is totally useless..." Ha ha.

For the next two days I called the baggage offices a ATL, PHL and LGA. Just like in Italy, nobody answered.

Finally, I decided to drive to LGA, where I discovered a gargantuan pile of unclaimed luggage.

I waited 45 minutes and then told the person my situation. She nodded lazily and told me to go look in the pile and to take my bags if I found them.

I eventually did and so I came back to the office to ask if I needed to sign something.

"No just take them."

Nice. She had never checked the bag tags on my boarding pass...

"This is America, you know..."

You could have asked to standby on the earlier flight knowing that you would have to take the later flight. This works well because it allows the airline to sell your seat the next day. I think airlines need to ease up a bit with the low fare tickets as students and other travelers need to change their plans. If it was my airline I would let you take the seat on the earlier flight as it suits your needs and I can sell that seat for more for the last minute traveler. It would be a win win situation.

The worst that could have happened is that you could not take the flight and then just find a room for the night.