Travel Technology - Blackberry and WiFi Question

I have an ATT Bold. With wifi on and cell on, everything seems to flow through the wifi end. I'm using a data counter and have been watching it for several days. When I shut the cell phone part ("radio") off, most programs fails even though the wifi is on I see there is no data connection. I tried putting a non-Blackberry SIM in the unit with the radio on and everything still failed.

What am I doing wrong? I will be taking a long Emirates flight with wifi on the plane and would like to use the same on my BB, but figure it won't work with radio off. At the same time, I am seeing other people who are using their BBs over wifi only. I understand how this could be different with a TMobile UMA compatible device, but don't understand how it would be different with anyone else.

I have an ATT Bold. With wifi on and cell on, everything seems to flow through the wifi end. I'm using a data counter and have been watching it for several days. When I shut the cell phone part ("radio") off, most programs fails even though the wifi is on I see there is no data connection. I tried putting a non-Blackberry SIM in the unit with the radio on and everything still failed.

What am I doing wrong? I will be taking a long Emirates flight with wifi on the plane and would like to use the same on my BB, but figure it won't work with radio off. At the same time, I am seeing other people who are using their BBs over wifi only. I understand how this could be different with a TMobile UMA compatible device, but don't understand how it would be different with anyone else.

So to check: You have been through setting up a wireless network on your Berry and selected the one you want to use and filled in any passwords etc. Is it still not working after that, and if so have you tried to see the Berry with another wifi enabled device to check the wifi is working?

I've noticed this too - if I turn the mobile connection off, lots of applications seem to fail. One example is Google Maps. It appears to use the WiFi connection when it's there, but it won't even try unless there is an active mobile link. No idea why either, would be interested in solving this :)

Yes. I've been testing it on my home wifi. I am on the net. I can play Pandora (net only), I can browse (hotspot mode), but I can't pull mail via BES, from Google Mail client, Blacberry PIN message, etc.

I've noticed this too - if I turn the mobile connection off, lots of applications seem to fail. One example is Google Maps.

I have a Bold, and Google Maps works fine without WiFi.

I have a Bold, and Google Maps works fine without WiFi.
Umm... that's the opposite of what I said :)

Obviously it works fine without WiFi. What I'm saying is that it won't work on WiFi unless the mobile network connection is turned on too. Once I turn the mobile connection on it works fine, but without this it says "no data connection" or something similar.

It is well known that the gmail app requires the mobile network connection, though I have heard of hacks people use to make the gmail app work via wifi when folks don't want to pay for a data plan.

As for google maps - I just turned off the mobile connection and was able to use wifi to pull up a map and search for an address. No problem whatsoever. Am using 3.0.2 on google maps - I seem to remember older versions of the app may have had problems. Since the google apps don't notify you when there is a more recent version, you may want to manually download the latest. @:-)

Getting mail from my BES works fine over wifi, also. I do this all the time at a friend's house where there is no reception. Blackberry PIN messaging will definitely NOT work - this goes through your blackberry data plan. Google Talk definitely does work for me via WiFi - which is the only IM client I use.

My biggest problem is getting logged into a hotspot with the BB browser. Definitely have to turn the mobile connection off first - and sometimes javascript logins just don't work.

I've been playing with my BBB as my initial goal was to not pay for data... (it gets expensive) as wifi is usually around the areas I surf...

But connecting to wifi seems to be sometimes a bit of an issue - guess you need to go under the bookmarks and select hotspot mode :rolleyes: and one network I connect to does not brodcast its SSID which makes it 'fun' to connect to...

And I have a trip to Hawaii next month that might be nice to have internet access... otherwise its an expensive 'accessory' :p but just my eventual goal :D

Getting mail from my BES works fine over wifi, also. I do this all the time at a friend's house where there is no reception. Blackberry PIN messaging will definitely NOT work - this goes through your blackberry data plan. Google Talk definitely does work for me via WiFi - which is the only IM client I use.


I turned off my mobile connection and am left with the home Wifi.

BB Messenger works so I'd be surprised if PIN messaging doesn't work. If someone wants to PM me their PIN I'll try it out.

I just refreshed my Gmail account and that worked fine. I then logged out, back in and sent myself an email to my BES-based work mail. I also sent an email from the BES-based mail on the BBerry to my Gmail account. This is where things got odd.

The email from the BES got to gmail, but not on the device. The email from Gmail on the device did not get to the BES. I guess this is the issue that is 'known'.


SFDC didn't work with the mobile radio turned off.

Could be something your carrier is doing to keep you on their mobile network.
Here is why I think this. I have an Blackberry Curve 8320 with T-Mobile. They are huge about using your internet connection/wifi to do everything on your Blackberry. This is actually a pretty smart concept, as it takes some load off their mobile network when you are in range of a WiFi network. Most customers don't even realize this, and as long as the phone works, who cares?

Right now I have my mobile network turned off, WiFi only and the phone still shows I am on the T-Mobile Network (via UMA) so the phone acts just like it would over the mobile network. Even SMS comes over the WiFi.

I know some people have complained about UMA, or VoIP, but I am a big fan, as there is no voice quality differerence that I have found when I am on it vs the mobile netork. It's also huge when I am in Canada, as I am no longer roaming, the phone "sees" that I am on the T-Mobile network so everything is within plan minutes. I've also been in the boondocks here in the U.S. where there was no GSM coverage (ATT, T-Mobile, anyone). When I got to the hotel that had wireless internet, my phone showed full strength on the T-Mobile Network.

I do have a T-Mobile data plan but I think it is T-Mobile's plan (and for unlimited users to their advantage) to put you on WiFi whenever possible. I use a LOT of data on my Blackberry but most of it is when I am on WiFi networks, which is quite a bit faster.

ATT might have 3G in some areas but I find T-Mobile to suit me a lot better. Being able to get on their mobile network via WiFi is a huge plus.

So far everything I have tried works with WiFi only. My phone doesn't have a GPS, so I didn't try any maps applications. I tend to think that it would work, as even with the mobile network off, and the way T-Mobile encourages you to use WiFi, as far as the phone is concerned it is connected to a Mobile Network.

The TMobile / UMA is a solution very specific to that one carrier.

I acknowledged the differences with UMA to avoid this diversion. TMobile would have my international business except for the changes they made in the way they compute international data. My wife has a Curve 8900 that was on TMobile International. Then we got a $500 bill for data roaming for e-mail usage (non-Blackberry). We won the fight that wee should not have been billed for this $500, but I didn't think we could win it every month and we voted with our feet. She is now with ATT.

In Dubai, it took them a week to deal with roaming problems and we still had a $500 bill on a three week trip (no voice). ATT's international roaming division is highly competent and their international data plan includes all on device data. I think UMA is great, but have other problems with TMobile have made me vote with my feet. I have VOIP on my notebook and my other handset is an E-Series Nokia with VOIP. I have client programmed to ring me over VOIP, but if I am not online to go to my local prepaid.

I have no problems doing anything over Wifi or the mobile network with my T-mobile 8900.

Make sure that your APN settings are correct (options - advanced options - tcp/ip).

Also, make sure that you're actually connected to your wireless network and registered to the Blackberry infrastructure. The easy way is to see what color the "wifi" logo on the homescreen is - if it's sort of grayed out black and white, you aren't connected to the Blackberry network. If it's high contrast black and white, you are connected. You can also go in to options - wifi connections - click the menu and choose wifi diagnostics (or wifi tools - diagnostics, depending on your Blackberry OS version).

I acknowledged the differences with UMA to avoid this diversion. TMobile would have my international business except for the changes they made in the way they compute international data. My wife has a Curve 8900 that was on TMobile International. Then we got a $500 bill for data roaming for e-mail usage (non-Blackberry). We won the fight that wee should not have been billed for this $500, but I didn't think we could win it every month and we voted with our feet. She is now with ATT.


This is T-mobile's standard policy. The international data plan is an international e-mail plan. Usually you get lucky and the foreign carrier doesn't differentiate between email and web, but in Dubai Etisalat seems to do so.

This is T-mobile's standard policy. The international data plan is an international e-mail plan. Usually you get lucky and the foreign carrier doesn't differentiate between email and web, but in Dubai Etisalat seems to do so.

It is change in TMobile's billing practices (there is a different thread going on about this). The problem in this case is that using the rules of contract construction, I am in the right, but TMobile will probably not give me the benefit of the doubt month after month. Here is the problem:

My wife uses to separate Exchange mail accounts. We tried putting one on IMAP over BIS, but had nothing but problems. We migrated one to Astrasync which is an Activesync client for Blackberry. The other Exchange account comes over BES. The Astrasync client constantly poles the Exchange Server resulting in a data connection that is not over the Blackberry node. TMobile's contract says that mail is included. It does not (in the version of the contract) limit itself to Blackberry Mail over Blackberry Servers. Therefore, affording us the benefit of the doubt because of the disparity of contracting powers, the fact that they negotiated the contract, and all other rules of lenity in contract construction that favor the little guy, we would probably win in the court of law. We even won the issue with TMobile. They said we were right, not that they would waive it.

My wife, however, is out of the country month after month. This year, she has been working outside the US twelve weeks already. All my gut says that I couldn't keep calling back each month and winning the fight. Their billing system can't differentiate between non-Blackberry mail or other data usage. Sooner or later they would have to draw a line in the sand on this one. Before that happened, we decided to vote with our feet. The only other choice was to try try and tunnel all this traffic through BES and hope no one noticed. While the carrier would not see what we were connecting to, the usage patterns would be inconsistent with e-mail and this would be problematic. We could dial back the access to the Activesync server to once every half hour and might have been ok, but ATT's program lets you use the other programs.*

I tried to avoid giving the long version of events because it seemed pointless. Unfortunately, over-simplification has problems as well.


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*A customer service rep has even noted on my account that it is OK to use Pandora as part of my overseas data because Pandora is an ATT partner and not covered by the no streaming clause. Someone is going to hate that one if I ever hold them to their word.

The TMobile / UMA is a solution very specific to that one carrier.

I've got it on my Orange (UK) which given their lousy coverage of some of the places around the country I frequent is a bonus.

Orange has the service. It is called Unique/Unik (depending on whether you are in France or the UK). Rogers as the service, they call it "Home Zone." Cincinnati Wireless has it. I am not sure of the name.

It is a great service and I am not knocking it, most of us don't have it. I wish other carriers offered it even if the calls just came out of minutes.

FWIW, I use IMAP over BIS without issues - perhaps there is something you could do to just move back to BIS?

IMAP over BIS was the first thing she tried. She wound up with duplicate and triplicate copies of the same mail. This was not our first attempt at dealing with the problem. That server is an Exchange 2007 (2003 at some points in our experiments). I don't know who was implementing IMAP wrong, but either Blackberry or MS was doing something off. We spent a fair amount of time playing with this one.

Their billing system can't differentiate between non-Blackberry mail or other data usage. Sooner or later they would have to draw a line in the sand on this one.
They can - BlackBerry data is carried via the BlackBerry APN (e.g. "blackberry.net"); non-BB data is carried via the carrier APN. You might find they refine their contract to state "BlackBerry data" instead of "email".

In the case of BES devices, you should be able to carry all traffic to and through the BES without using any public/carrier Internet APNs. I don't think there's any easy way to differentiate traffic going to a BES.

I wouldn't be surprised if they make that contract change, but right now our contract says mail, not Blackberry mail. If they make the change, I would lose the fight, but as noted above, we didn't wait for that to happen. We moved on.

Astrasync does not normally send its data through the Blackberry APN. I think you can do that, but my wife didn't want to have to worry about these issues. She is not a super heavy data users and wanted to be able to use her BB without worries of any rude surprises showing up in her bill.

They can - BlackBerry data is carried via the BlackBerry APN (e.g. "blackberry.net"); non-BB data is carried via the carrier APN. You might find they refine their contract to state "BlackBerry data" instead of "email".

In the case of BES devices, you should be able to carry all traffic to and through the BES without using any public/carrier Internet APNs. I don't think there's any easy way to differentiate traffic going to a BES.

Note my use of the word "non-Blackberry" in reference to the word mail.