MilesBuzz! - Best FFP for each alliance that does not steal your miles? I lost 225K miles

I recently just checked my miles on my accounts since I will be back in the air again after a 2 year work assignment in the USA. Unfortunately the FF world has changed a lot and not in my favour. I lost a total of 225,000 miles to Delta, KLM and American Airlines. All 3 took my miles under the "inactivity" rule. I can get back 30,000 delta miles if I give them $300 to reactivate but other than that I am SOL.

That was a lot of time in economy to get those miles as well. It seems the airline FFP's I was in did not believe in rewarding those customers who take a break in their travel patterns as I did.

I was also once a real travel guru who kept up with all the changes and participated in some great promotions of the past such as the LatinPass run, Aeroplan promos and Star Alliance promos. In the past, many miles could be earned in the back of the bus (100% mileage accrual) but alas, this seems to have changed as well. The world is a changing!

So now I need advice - - -- -

What airline FF programme gives at or near full mileage for discount economy and then does not steal your miles after a period of inactivity for each alliance? (Star / Oneworld / SkyTeam)

I will be mainly flying Asiana Airlines and NWA from Manila to Seattle.

Be prepared to be bombarded with messages that it is your fault for letting your airline miles expire, etc., etc., etc. However, the airlines can change the rules at any time, and they are the judge, jury, and executioner -- so we always have to stay vigilant.

As for your lost miles, don't give up on your American Airlines miles just yet. Read http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-aadvantage/853159-reengagement-challenges-reactivate-restore-expired-miles-consolidated.html and see if you can't do something cheap to get them back.

I think all major US airlines now have expiration dates for miles earned in their FF programs with the possible exception of Continental. They apparently have a written expiration policy but don't enforce it. Continental is moving to Star Alliance later this year, but until then, you may be able to credit your NW travel to Continental while they are still a part of SkyTeam.

And don't forget that it's very simple to reset the expiration date using any redemption or earning. (e.g. a magazine subscription, donate some miles to charity, order something online, etc.)

with full respect to the OP and without wishing to incurr the wrath of the mods, may I be the first to suggest that it would not have been so hard to avoid loosing those points with a little more attention to detail? As such, I would respectfully suggest that the OP is most to blame for loosing those miles.

That said, I'd suggest that you have a look at ways to avoid this in the future - many FFP's don't expire your miles if you have a CC or some some sort of non flying activity. If you have a mailing address in another country, you may also want to consider 'moving'. Some FFP's have different rules in different countries.

Do those two airlines offer fairly equal service to Seattle? If so, first decide whether SkyTeam or Star Alliance is better for your other travel patterns. Then select a program.

I have generally chosen to accrue miles on whomever's metal I really think I'll be flying most. More for status purposes than the miles themselves. Pretty much all airlines treat their own elites better than alliance elites of equal status. That goes for upgrades, coach seat assignments, irrops, etc. Even in cases where an alliance elite has privileges, they're generally not as seamless and easy to use as they are for a "native". (For example, Air Canada's website does not automatically recognize me as a Star Gold. I can phone Air Canada and they will assign me desirable coach seats, but I can't do it online. Same goes for LH - I always need a phone call to get my ideal seats.)

Now that you're aware that miles can expire, you'll probably find that's a nonissue as long as you pay somewhat close attention. I was lucky: I was able to sign up for the US Airways credit card and recover 57k expired miles.

Sorry for your loss of so many air miles ....

I wouldn't count on any airline having miles that never expire. I don't know of any airlines anymore whose miles don't expire (sooner or later). Even if you found one, they can always change the rules like most have already done.

So, bottom line is:

Whatever airlines (or hotels ,etc) rewards you sign up for and earn, be sure to check them out periodically and be sure you keep them active with some type of periodic activity.

IMHO .... no one stole your air miles; you let them expire ....

BTW, davistev, with over 3,600 posts here, how is it you didn't know about the expirations? Did you take a 2 year break from here as well?

If you're looking for an airline where the points never expire, where there's no possibility that the airline will ever change the rules to have them expire, and where you don't have to get an eye on your valuable, hard-earned asset, I don't believe you will find one.

Sorry for your loss of so many air miles ....


BTW, davistev, with over 3,600 posts here, how is it you didn't know about the expirations? Did you take a 2 year break from here as well?

Pretty much so. I flew a SouthWest flight to Vegas and that was that. You know, I think many posters do not actually realise how much has changed in the last 2 - 3 years. In 2006, one got 100% mileage on discount tickets, KLM was Flying Blue and miles did not expire.

I was hoping that some programmes still treated their flyers with some sort of respect and let you keep the miles you earned.

One poster said I "lost" my miles and they were not "stolen". I beg to differ because I did earn those miles. Those miles were earned in classes that accrued miles and I often paid a little extra to ensure I was credited the miles. When someone "earns" the miles and places them in their account for later (perhaps retirement etc), and then finds them gone - It is not "lost". I know where they went - they went back into the coffers of the airline who took them. Hence my wordage "stolen". They did not send me a cheque or a voucher for the value of my miles - they just took them.

BUT now that I am back on the board and flying again, I see that I have a lot of re-learning to do in this game. Some FF principals are still the same - stick with airline you fly most as many benefits are unwritten (operational upgrades, getting to know the flight attendants and GA names again).

I was hoping that there might be a clear winner out there as far as the best SkyTeam and Star Alliance FF programme but as many have already pointed out, most programmes have been gutted and reward premium paying customers over discount economy customers.

With this in mind, I need to change the way I fly and collect miles. Certainly, I will now use my miles as I go rather than keep for later (poor strategy nowadays as the redemption levels have increased, but earning opportunities have decreased).

My flight patterns will be monthly MNL-SEA round trips in economy and local Asia-Pacific flights. It would seem that Asia Pacific has exploded with Low Cost Carriers that offer great prices and schedules from the Philippines.

So I guess it is JetStar, Tiger, Cebu Pacific and Air Asia for Intra Asia/Pacific flights and for the long haul stuff, I will park my miles with Asiana Airlines and NWA WorldPerks. Both programmes look okay. What you think?

One poster said I "lost" my miles and they were not "stolen". I beg to differ because I did earn those miles. Those miles were earned in classes that accrued miles and I often paid a little extra to ensure I was credited the miles. When someone "earns" the miles and places them in their account for later (perhaps retirement etc), and then finds them gone - It is not "lost". I know where they went - they went back into the coffers of the airline who took them. Hence my wordage "stolen". They did not send me a cheque or a voucher for the value of my miles - they just took them.Don't most if not all programs have language in their T&C that pretty much say miles have no cash value and are the property of the airline. Since they are not your property they didn't steal them, you lost them.

No sympathy though I know I would be devastated if this happened to me. But somebody with 3600 posts and 10 years on FT should know that miles expire (and they have for a long time now). Admittedly the "use by" dates have decreased, but only from 3 years to 18 mos. in many cases.

I don't know if all your programs send emails since I have never gotten close to the expiration with DL, AA, etc. But I do know US and HH (hotels) send emails warning of expiration.

In the US, I think CO is the only program where miles never seem to expire. NW used to be very generous (3 yrs) but will probably be folded into DL.

If you are looking for 100% mileage on deep discount fares, UA and AA are probably the best option as DL does not and NW will soon follow.

In 2006, one got 100% mileage on discount tickets, KLM was Flying Blue and miles did not expire.

I reply to this, because this program I know the rules very good.

Before 2000 (Flying Dutchman): miles expired after 36 months.
Between 2000-2005 (FD): miles did not expire
From 2005-2009 (April 1) (now it is Flying Blue): miles did only expire after 36 months inactivity
From 2009 (April 1): miles expire after 20 months inactivity

So I don't know through which rule your miles expired, but if it is the last, you can get them back when flying with Skyteam before September (and ofcourse credit your miles to FB) - no other options for getting them back.

Rules are changed very regularly - due to the changes of the program, mergers etc. etc.

For Star you could look into Diamond Club of BMI; they are very generous and miles do not expire. BUT (a big BUT), there is a good chance they are taken over by Lufthansa with Miles & More. Then the rules are very bad: miles expire after 36 months.

BTW, for both Flying Blue and Miles & More I know for a fact that having and using their creditcard (FB Amex / M&M Visa or MC) will extend validity of all miles earned.

And don't forget that it's very simple to reset the expiration date using any redemption or earning. (e.g. a magazine subscription, donate some miles to charity, order something online, etc.)

For Flying Blue (KL/AF) there are only a few options:
- you earn at least 1 EQM every 20 months
- you have status
- you have the cobranded FB Amex card (Dutch or French). I'm not sure about the Swiss cobranded FB Mastercard.

All other earnings do NOT reset the expiration date.

So your suggestion, although valid for many FF-programs, is not valid for all.

The most reliable way to ensure your miles won't expire is to get an airline credit card, bite the bullet on the annual fees, and then have one of your regular bills put on the card automatically every month. Credit card transactions count to extend your miles, so you should always have the maximum lead time left.

Also, be sure to sign up for e-mails, so you are notified when policies change and can get notification of expiring miles.

I think also you should use the miles as fast as you earn them. Some people get hung up on accumulating large numbers of miles for use at some future time, but the miles are constantly being devalued, so as soon as you have enough for something you want to do, go ahead and use them. I remember 40,000 mile RT from the US to Asia, for instance, and that is long gone.

Also, some of the budget airlines you mentioned, like Tiger, are not part of any alliance as far as I know. Also, not all routes for all partners generate miles.

Perhaps do some research and pick several random dates for Seattle-Manila with both NWA and Asiana. Let's say NWA was consistently $200 more expensive. Would it be worth paying this extra fare to collect miles?

Then pick several random dates for award availability on whatever route you would use the award for (would it also be Seattle-Manila?) See if NWA offers better or worse availability. I know from my own experience that NWA/DL is NOT SO EASY to redeem miles at the saver rates.

One more thing: On the awards check what each airline will charge for taxes and fuel surcharges. I know that many of the European airlines charge such high fees, that for an economy award, its not worth redeeming miles. I do not know about the Asian airlines, but this is worth looking in to, as could tilt you towards one airline vs the other.

Thanks people for the comments. Yes - it is possible that a person with 10 years on FT and 3900 posts turned into a "non-informed flyer". Life happens and FT certainly dropped down on my list of things to keep up on. So now it is time for a new strategy.

The rules have changed but the game is still essentially the same - "The one who flys for the least wins (preferably up front)". Unlike the last 50 years of flying we now have a new low cost carrier environment that competes head on with the legacy carriers regionally. Before, I never considered Low Cost Carriers due to their scheduling and stingy seat pitch but now since the traditional carriers charge more for less and miles accrued are less than before and redemption availability for regular awards are difficult to find - why not fly Air Asia, JetStar, Tiger and the likes for regional routes.

For Example: I pulled up MNL-SIN for $65 including tax OW on Jetstar and KUL-PER OW on Air Asia for $60ai. Miles be gone - let me on these deals.

Long Haul routes and mileage earning opportunities still have merit nowadays because LCC still have not worked out a way to offer SIN-LAX for $99 each way. But when that happens, The traditional carriers can kiss their long haul economy customers goodbye unless they can revamp their loyalty programmes to keep value conscious travellers like myself on board. Air Asia have already launched their KUL-STN service - so it is just a matter of time.

I for one have no more loyalty to any airline or FF programme. I just want to get from A to B for the cheapest price. A trans Pacific in economy in a 34" pitch Asiana flight is soon solved by a good nights sleep upon arrival. And with all the great tools to find cheap flights on the web - it is a new exciting period to find these flights.

One thing certainly has changed and no offense to present posters in this thread - but some posters on FT have become very judgemental over the years. There is a real "blame the poster" culture here. I am not sure how this happened. In 1999, I remember swapping mistakes with posters over my flights on Avianca during the LatinPass run, the time I arrived at a Hilton in Toronto only to find it was not opened yet!, the crap surcharges on rental vehicles in Florida and so on. I told people about my errors and fellow FT'ers would jump in and offer solutions. It was great. I would meet Ft'ers in Amsterdam, show them around Sudan, Have lunch in Hong Kong and generally, the spirit of it all was very good. If I found a deal - I would share it openly.

Now 2009 circa - I get "you stupid bugga - serve you right" style replies. "you'll get no sympathy here style advice" - Boy - things have changed.

My response - I am back and will continue to offer any advice where I can, I will contimue to assist travellers if I can, I will share my finds, I will offer a couch when needed to any flyertalker dropping by Cagayan de Oro, Philiipines. I will give away unused coupons when I get them if I do not need them. I will fly for cheap and I will always help out if I can.

So be it - the deals are out there and so are great flyers. FT has become huge and all sorts are now here. Do not judge me - fly with me instead!

Hey.... I was actually considering visiting CDO in the future, but Cebu, Davao have priority I think so..... :rolleyes:

If NW is the one you are looking at now please consider the implications of the merger with Delta soon & the possibility that they may have the least valuable FF rewards now. Also you may want to consider, because of the mayhem that is MNL, I believe you won't have to transfer over to the domestic terminal if you travel PAL. (Or travel CX to Cebu via Vancouver?)