Other Middle East and Africa Frequent Flyer Programs - SAA and the World Cup

do you think SAA will try and lease more planes for the world cup? there definitely aren't as many flights to SA then there were to germany last year. i can see plane ticket prices be insanely high, just because the demand could be greater then the supply.

It wouldn't just be SAA though - I could see BA/LH/LX/VS all adding extra flights to their successful routes.

It wouldn't just be SAA though - I could see BA/LH/LX/VS all adding extra flights to their successful routes.

agreed...i wonder what SAA will do with their US flights. i plan on taking the IAD-JNB flight, but there aren't many flights to SA from the US.

EK is actually the official airline for the world cup in South Africa - and they are ramping up their service to Johannesburg, Cape Town and Durban

EK is actually the official airline for the world cup in South Africa - and they are ramping up their service to Johannesburg, Cape Town and Durban

EK isn't too practical from the US though.

and i forgot that they were the official airline. i can't wait though...13 more months!

EK isn't too practical from the US though.

and i forgot that they were the official airline. i can't wait though...13 more months!

Well not sure of the schedules from the States, but I don't think time wise it would be much longer than via Europe where you often need to wait many hours for onwards connections and they should be serving 3 South African destinations by then.

Of course there is also Delta with their ATL - JNB non-stop and JFK/ATL - CPT via Dakar.

It is going to be an interesting few weeks I must admit! I am a shareholder in a tour operator in South Africa and at the moment it is utter chaos, because until the draw no one knows who is playing where, and so logistically it is a nightmare, and needless to say accommodation is at a premium.

Well not sure of the schedules from the States, but I don't think time wise it would be much longer than via Europe where you often need to wait many hours for onwards connections and they should be serving 3 South African destinations by then.

Of course there is also Delta with their ATL - JNB non-stop and JFK/ATL - CPT via Dakar.

It is going to be an interesting few weeks I must admit! I am a shareholder in a tour operator in South Africa and at the moment it is utter chaos, because until the draw no one knows who is playing where, and so logistically it is a nightmare, and needless to say accommodation is at a premium.

I have been checking the flight to South Africa next year for about a week now and the ticket from the West Coast (SFO) is insanely high. The lowest I've found so far is about +$1300 with traveling a week before the festivity (June 2nd) and leaving a week after the Final (July 17). Anything in between those dates, you would have to cough up a lot of $$$.

This is going to be one expensive trip. Got the tickets to the Final though so can't complain.

looks like SAA isn't going to sell anything less then full fare Y right now.

and if that's the case, they won't get my business. i found $1,300 JFK-JNB. so i'll probably just do that, unless SAA decided to lower their price from $4,300 in economy.

looks like SAA isn't going to sell anything less then full fare Y right now.

and if that's the case, they won't get my business. i found $1,300 JFK-JNB. so i'll probably just do that, unless SAA decided to lower their price from $4,300 in economy.

They will lower it eventually - the only question is when...

I have got the same predicament the other way round. My family is flying out of SA for the WC2010 but no good rates to be had yet (other than on TK).

One would think there would be ample empty seats going the other way, wouldn't one?

One would think there would be ample empty seats going the other way, wouldn't one?That assumes sentient beings are in charge of yield management. ;)

I don't blame SA or any airline for wanting to maximise their opportunities with the World Cup. Hell, the airlines have had a tough time of it for years now. But some of the things one sees just don't make sense. I wonder if SA (the airline) is also in hock to FIFA somehow - like holding back inventory until the final draw is announced or some such?

yeah, i know they'll lower it eventually. i mean, we are pretty far out from the WC. i assume once the draw is announced in december, things will change.

but i'm tempted to take egypt air, since they're pretty cheap and i'd get UA miles for it. anyone have any experience on their JFK-CAI and CAI-JNB legs?

They will lower it eventually - the only question is when...

I have got the same predicament the other way round. My family is flying out of SA for the WC2010 but no good rates to be had yet (other than on TK).

One would think there would be ample empty seats going the other way, wouldn't one?

Are you sure about that, capetonian?
With the 2010 WC being from 11 June to 11 July, I looked for example at CPT/LHR vv (on the trusted SA 220/221 combination) for out on 6 June and back on 14 July and there is D availability (at R31K) as well as L availability (at R 8160). I am planning to do just that (although not necessary those dates, I selected them fairly randomly for the period just before and just after the tournament). What routes / dates did you look at?

What routes / dates did you look at?

I looked at CPT-MUC for dates around the school holidays and other than on TK only (very) expensive fare-brackets where available. Admittedly that was a few weeks back and I haven't looked since.

I just had a look at Etihad's prices ex CPT to Europe over this period. If you want to fly back to SA before the 10th of July the system will quote you an economy fare of ca. R 28.000,--, if you fly back on the 11th the price drops to R 3.800,-- (add about R 2.600,-- in taxes and fees to these prices).

edit: for those not familiar with the Rand, divide by 7,7 to get a price in US$.

I looked at CPT-MUC for dates around the school holidays and other than on TK only (very) expensive fare-brackets where available. Admittedly that was a few weeks back and I haven't looked since.

CPT/MUC, out on 10 June (first day of school holidays) and back on 12 July (end of school holidays) is now R 7180 on Etihad and R 8078 on LH (LH ticket, SA metal). Info from ITA. For R22150 you can fly Etihad in C! (all including taxes and surcharges).

For R22150 you can fly Etihad in C! (all including taxes and surcharges).

That's what I thought as well, but I didn't bother to check. I just wanted to point out that some airlines leave flights within the World Cup period on full fare for the time being. However, I don't think that they will sell out at these levels and will eventually come down to some more realistic levels.

Anyone know if SAA is for some reason not selling flights from JNB-CPT for during world cup? I find plenty of availability on this route using ITA but can't book the flights on the SAA website or other booking sites (expedia, orbitz, etc.).

Anyone know if SAA is for some reason not selling flights from JNB-CPT for during world cup? I find plenty of availability on this route using ITA but can't book the flights on the SAA website or other booking sites (expedia, orbitz, etc.).

Rumours are that they are holding back capacity until after the final draw which is sometimes in December IIRC.

Rumours are that they are holding back capacity until after the final draw which is sometimes in December IIRC.

It certainly looks like that and the same goes for the JNB/DUR route. According to seatcounter there is NO availability on SA during the 2010WC, except for the "L" bucket. ITA also gives only the L bucket as a result, at R1700 for the return, at which amount it must be the cheapest bucket in the system :( :rolleyes: :confused:.
At least on BA there is availability in Y and C (full fare) buckets.
Bizarre!
Tried to also look at the JNB/PLZ and the CPT/DUR route but then this silly daily cap on seatcounter usage kicked in.

Tried to also look at the JNB/PLZ and the CPT/DUR route ...Same story there: L for SA, J & Y for BA... unless it's a CRJ, in which case all fares are available. :confused: (Oddly, the SA embargo extends well after the end of the games.)

Just had another thought: is it possible the airlines have given most of their inventory to tour operators organising inclusive tours and will only release what is left at a later stage? This would dovetail with the other theory since the operators would only be able to finalise their clients' bookings after the draw is announced. Must ask my TA if they can access any flights during that time.

I had been searching and searching for airfare from JNB-CPT and return during the WC, and had only found airfare of well over 600.00. I did a search on Orbitz yesterday and found the airfare had dropped for $409.00 per person, and that includes tax.

The routing is non-stop from JNB-CPT on June 8th, returning on June 13th. I didnt think the 400.00 was too incredibly high given the fact that this is during the WC and people should expect to a pay a little more. I know that I have four tickets for the games in JNB on the 14, 17, and 21st; and wasnt about to risk not being able to find seats at a later date. With the smaller inventory of seats between the two cities, my guess is that the prices will only increase when the draw is official.

I had been searching and searching for airfare from JNB-CPT and return during the WC, and had only found airfare of well over 600.00. I did a search on Orbitz yesterday and found the airfare had dropped for $409.00 per person, and that includes tax.

The routing is non-stop from JNB-CPT on June 8th, returning on June 13th. I didnt think the 400.00 was too incredibly high given the fact that this is during the WC and people should expect to a pay a little more. I know that I have four tickets for the games in JNB on the 14, 17, and 21st; and wasnt about to risk not being able to find seats at a later date. With the smaller inventory of seats between the two cities, my guess is that the prices will only increase when the draw is official.

Interesting. What airline / flight numbers?

Got this in an email update:

'National airline carrier SAA could soon have more than 20 extra aircraft in its fleet for the World Cup, should an agreement be signed with FIFA’s official hospitality partner, MATCH. Head of SAA’s 2010 operations team, Ian Cruickshank, has revealed that the airline is in negotiations with MATCH to provide between 20 and 50 aircraft for the tournament. He told the Cape Argus that a non-circumvention agreement had already been signed, and that a letter of intent and commercial agreement were now being discussed. He added that the busiest route would be between Cape Town and Joburg, and they would need as many aircraft as possible.'

Very interesting. What would the "non-circumvention agreement" entail?

I'm not too sure what the "non-circumvention agreement" will entail...

Here is another update from toursimupdate:

"SAA South America manager Nelson de Oliveira was recently quoted saying that from June 2, 2010, an additional four flights a week are expected for the São Paulo-Johannesburg route. “Our goal is to have two daily flights from São Paulo, one daily from Buenos Aires and another daily from Rio de Janeiro.”

The increased access to South America could be in response to expected demand from that market for the 2010 World Cup.

SAA ceo Chris Smyth told a parliamentary briefing this month that SAA was looking at adding flights to Rio de Janeiro, as well as Mexico City, Madrid, Paris, Amsterdam, Rome and Manchester based on demand for the event.

He added that the airline had signed a deal with Match to provide SAA with 20 aircraft and crew over the period. SAA will also assess demand to determine the need for direct flights to Cape Town or Durban after December 4.

South African Airways currently serves the South American market with daily flights to São Paulo, Brazil and to Buenos Aires, Argentina three times per week.
Said SAA head of Group Corporate Affaris Robyn Chalmers: “SAA will adapt its schedule going forward as demand dictates.”

Quite interesting!

Thought some might be interested in the timeline on scheduling/ticket sales found here in post #13:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293740-i9186-k3019486-o10-Domestic_airline_tickets_during_World_Cup_2010-South_Africa.html

Looks like ticket sales by SAA during the WC period won't open up until Dec. 15th.

Interestingly, EK have already released their WC2010 packages (http://www.emirates.com/za/English/destinations_offers/special_offers/fifa_world_cup_packages/fifa_world_cup_packages.aspx). Since they have an alliance of sorts with SA it seems likely that the domestic flights will be on SA. If so, then SA is certainly already making flights available to the package trade. (Which is what we pretty much expected.)

Got my MS CDG-CAI-JNB in C class for the world cup for a "classic" ridiculous cheap price.
Of course I will probably have to cancel it next month when Maradona's team loose any chance to qualify :(

this is crazy regarding flights on BA (comair ) i suggest waiting a while before bookin any domestic flights...

CPT - JNB Rt on the 11 June = R5252

JNB - DUR Rt on the 7 July = R5366

JNB - CPT Rt on the 3 July = R9812

http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=67479

there's a rumor on the UA board in the fleet week thread, that the VPs said they're eyeing 3 new international destinations. one in europe, and two in africa.

wonder if CAI and JNB are the one's they're looking at. i'd love to see IAD-JNB on UA.

but my guess is fares will drop a bit after the drawing. but we'll see.

Biz class on Egyptair CAI-JNB and back isn't too terrible. It is an overnight flight so assuming you've got Ambien and can sleep in a non lay flat seat, you are ok. No alcohol allowed even though they code share with SAA on that route.

there's a rumor on the UA board in the fleet week thread, that the VPs said they're eyeing 3 new international destinations. one in europe, and two in africa.

wonder if CAI and JNB are the one's they're looking at. i'd love to see IAD-JNB on UA.

but my guess is fares will drop a bit after the drawing. but we'll see.


SAA already serves IAD-JNB, under a UA code-share. SAA provides a higher quality product in both Premium Business Class and Economy Class than UA and being a StarAlliance member, you can still earn / burn Mileage Plus credits.

SAA already serves IAD-JNB, under a UA code-share. SAA provides a higher quality product in both Premium Business Class and Economy Class than UA and being a StarAlliance member, you can still earn / burn Mileage Plus credits.

but if they are looking to expand to africa, those are the only two cities that are worth anything to UA.

but if they are looking to expand to africa, those are the only two cities that are worth anything to UA.

Actually, if UA is looking to expand in Africa, their better high-yield revenue opportunity would be to serve cities in West Africa from IAD; such as Lagos or Luanda. These are markets that are generating a lot of high yield revenue from the petroleum industry and would make sense for a UA / CO / SA code-share under Star Alliance.

UA does not have the aircraft to serve IAD-JNB on a round-trip basis, given the flight distance and altitude of the JNB airport. Even the 777 with P/W engines would not be able to make this flight on the northbound sector nonstop.

UA does not have the aircraft to serve IAD-JNB on a round-trip basis, given the flight distance and altitude of the JNB airport. Even the 777 with P/W engines would not be able to make this flight on the northbound sector nonstop.

Do SA or DL do JNB-IAD nonstop on the northbound sector?

Do SA or DL do JNB-IAD nonstop on the northbound sector?

Nope, they both have a stop in Dakar for refuelling.

Nope, they both have a stop in Dakar for refuelling.

Incorrect. As of June, DL flies JNB-ATL non-stop on 77L equipment.

Summer is quickly approaching in South Africa, and JNB's notorious "hot and high" conditions may alter DL's apparent success thus far. The ATL-bound flight leaves JNB rather late in the day -- better performance for the 77L to take off after the peak heat of the day. Of course, the early morning arrival in ATL facilitates the hub and spoke around the country.

Interesting article in Business Day (http://www.businessday.co.za/Articles/Content.aspx?id=87100) earlier this week. Talk about using the craft of the foreign airlines for domestic flights. Also BA/Comair says they are leasing more planes for the period to increase capacity by 50%.

I just wonder of our airports can cope.