Disability Travel - Need Advice About Scooter

I stopped taking my scooter on airline flights because it was very large and difficult to transport, not only on the plane, but while we were at our destination as well.

We keep a wheelchair at the home of each of our children for my visits, and I try to rent a scooter when we are traveling and I need one. This is not working as well for us as it has previously. I really need to have my scooter with me while we are traveling. It is difficult to find places that rent scooters, and often I am not in large cities where I can find these services anyway.

I am looking at a very small scooter designed for people who travel. I have questions about how the airlines would manage the scooter. When I flew many years ago with my huge scooter, we checked it with our luggage. I used the airline wheelchair service, and we picked up the scooter at baggage claims.

On one occasion I took the scooter to the plane and it was gate checked, but that seemed to cause lots of problems and made people unhappy. My husband would not let me do that again.

It seems to me that we did not pay any extra luggage charge for the scooter. I think that the entire scooter weighed about 140 pounds, and I know I would remember if we had paid a huge fee to check it.

Does anyone regularly travel with a scooter? Do you check it with luggage or gate check it? With luggage restrictions so tight does anyone know if we have to pay to check the scooter. I think that the smallest unit I can find weighs 76 pounds, which would make it over the 70 pound maximum I am allowed with Delta as a Medallion member.

My husband is afraid that the airlines might take it apart. It comes apart into five pieces. He fears that part of it might be lost so he wants to have a special canvas bag made to hold all of it when it has been disassembled. Does anyone think this is necessary?

We are planning a trip on Saturday. My husband wants me to purchase a scooter rather than rent one at our destination. He claims we could have purchased two for the amount we have spent renting them at our destination. He is probably correct. I am just not sure if we can successfully take it with us, or if we can even afford to take it with us.

I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience.

Wirelessly posted (goingaway's phone: BlackBerry8900/4.6.1.114 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

I do not know about being charged, but it is TSA who would worry be - I agree with your husband abouit the bag, but might check it at the door of the plane not before to ensure it arrives at my destination. Check the type of battery it uses and be sure there is no issue with having it on board just to be covered

I've not traveled with a scooter and I've not traveled since the new baggage charges, so I can't help there. I've seen the folding scooters for travelers which eliminates the need for the airline to "take it apart". One example http://www.1800wheelchair.com/asp/view-product-images.asp?rows=3. Another one that I've seen disabled veterans use actually folds upright like a vacuum cleaner and you can roll it on the wheels like a suitcase. The battery also snaps out (inside a sealed compartment) to make it lighter. I don't know the make or model and I've searched the web to no avail. Wish I could be of more help.

My wife regularly travels with a Drive Daytona 3 wheel scooter (about 130 pounds). It has been all over the world with us, even to Beijing China.
The airlines have been very good with it, and as of yet, have only removed the seat to be able to fold the steering handle down. They do not charge for it as luggage, because of the Accessibility rulings in their carriage contracts. We normally gate check, and if the connection is short, request that it be delivered to the aircraft door at the final destination, instead of at each connection. You may need it at a connecting airport tho. Sometimes we are asked to hold back, and exit the aircraft last, to give the ground crew a chance to bring it up. Many airports have elevators that allow the ground crew to bring it up quickly, but I have seen some crews carrying it up the stairway right outside the gate. TSA "hand" checks it and usually swabs it for explosives, but have not given us any grief over it. I do usually double check our flights, and try to route us onto some of the larger aircraft, as they usually won't even remove the seat on the larger ones.

Feel free to ask if you have any other questions.

I have purchased a Pride Go Go Elite Traveller Plus. With the batteries it weighs 114 pounds. I called our airline and they confirmed that we could check it either with luggage or at the gate, and there is no charge for the scooter.

If you gate check do you still get preferential treatment moving through TSA or do you stand in line with regular passengers who do not require extra screening? I have prosthetic implants and always require a pat down so the ability to move more quickly through the TSA process is important to me.

Also, when you have traveled outside of the US, how much difficulty has your wife had in using the scooter? We spend part of each year in Turkey. I am debating whether to attempt to take the scooter there; although it would be so nice to have it. The curbs are so high and the cobblestone streets so rough that I do not know if it would be more helpful than nuisance.

I have seen a few electric wheelchairs in Istanbul, but I have never seen an electric scooter.

If you gate check do you still get preferential treatment moving through TSA or do you stand in line with regular passengers who do not require extra screening? I have prosthetic implants and always require a pat down so the ability to move more quickly through the TSA process is important to me.

Also, when you have traveled outside of the US, how much difficulty has your wife had in using the scooter? We spend part of each year in Turkey. I am debating whether to attempt to take the scooter there; although it would be so nice to have it. The curbs are so high and the cobblestone streets so rough that I do not know if it would be more helpful than nuisance.

I have seen a few electric wheelchairs in Istanbul, but I have never seen an electric scooter.

We Usually do the gate check, and use the wheelchair line at security. My wife drives up to security, we put the scooter on "freewheel" and TSA takes it to double check, while my wife walks the short distance for her "normal" security screening.

With the ability of her walking short distances, we have had little trouble with the scooter, even when we encounter a higher or non cutout curb, she just gets off the scooter, and we lift it over the bump. Cobblestone streets can be a bit "bouncy" and jarring, but so far my wife hasn't had too many issues.

We just returned from a two week trip in Germany, where we rented a station wagon type car to transport the scooter between stays. It has also been to Beijing (but we left it at the hotel, and borrowed a standard wheelchair for a day trip to Xian (short Air China flight)), Paris, and London, as well as all around the US.

The London trip taught us to watch the battery life - we ran out of power, and I had to push her and the scooter a few blocks back to the hotel. We now have a spare set of batteries so we can travel further away from the hotel, but in most cities, we just look for a station wagon type taxi for longer excursions. Our scooter uses two 12 volt batteries, so if anything ever happens to the charger, we can purchase and use an inexpensive car battery charger "in a pinch" (has actually happened twice for us. once when the charger just didn't work, and once when the charger was damaged on the trip.)

The scooter has been very helpful for us. and has started several interesting conversations with the locals in the countries that we have visited.

Dennis

Thanks so much for the information. I got my scooter today, and I am so excited. I drove all over the neighborhood, and had several interesting conversations with people I have lived near for five years, but never spoken to before. I stopped to study the landscapes and visit with the neighborhood children. I went to our amenities center and checked out the swimming pools in preparation for the arrival of our grandson on Saturday. It was so nice to be able to see all of those things.

I am really looking forward to taking it with us on vacation. I think it will fit easily in the trunk of any taxi. We drive a Chrysler Crossfire, and it fits in that tiny trunk with room to spare. We have discussed using it abroad, and think we can manage the curbs just as you and your wife have done. I am very excited about our next trip to Turkey. I have just a few worries about using it on mass transit systems like trams and subways, but I think we will be OK.

Most of all I am looking forward to being able to move through the airport without having to depend upon someone to push my wheelchair!

Thanks for the good advice about batteries. That is certainly something we will want to do before we leave the US.

I have just a few worries about using it on mass transit systems like trams and subways, but I think we will be OK.

Most of all I am looking forward to being able to move through the airport without having to depend upon someone to push my wheelchair!

Thanks for the good advice about batteries. That is certainly something we will want to do before we leave the US.

As far as Mass Transit is concerned, I would just double check the city's website for accessibility. "most" major cities have accessible buses and trains.. but sometimes you need to give them a "heads up"

The only issue we had with the extra batteries was in Beijing. While Northwest had no problems with the extra batteries (gate checked along with the scooter in a small picnic cooler) the Chinese TSA had an issue, and originally told us that the scooter could go home with us, but not the batteries. I stood my ground, and when they finally read the Chinese writing on the batteries, they realized that they were safe. (fully sealed, not 'wet' cell)

Safe travels, and have fun in Turkey - That's on our list of places we want to get to. :).

Dennis

I have had a couple scooters i just found last yr the pheniox drive II 3 wheel scotter it is so easy to take apart to put in car & infact being disabled I can do it my self the battery comes out, the frame in 2 peices & seat comes off look for best deal thru these sites & also it comes with a light on it also,..... copy & paste the link below....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4TSHB_enUS283US284&ei=IIwfSsuuGdmJtge9-fDRBg&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=phoenix+drive+scooter&spell=1

Thought I would post an update to my experiences traveling with the scooter. We decided to gate check. We used the same TSA lines we use when a wheelchair attendant is pushing me. It was slightly more difficult for my husband because he had to watch both his carry-ons as well as mine (which are usually tended by the wheelchair attendant). I think he was a bit frazzled after dealing with camera, Cpap machine and two laptops.

I loved driving right to the gate myself. I stopped to look in a couple of gift shops, bought an interesting looking magazine, had a Starbuck's and generally enjoyed the freedom.

For most of my flights I was pre-boarded, just as I would have been in a airport wheelchair. Since our upgrades had already cleared I appreciated the pre-boarding opportunity. When the plane landed my scooter was delivered to the door of the plane, and I just hopped on it and went to my next gate or to the baggage carousel.

There were, however, enough glitches in the process to cause both my husband and myself some mental distress. Leaving ATL for LAX, the jetway rolled back to reveal my scooter still sitting at the end of the jetway. Since we could see it from the window I rang for the FA and she immediately contacted someone and the plane did not move until the scooter (and some other person's baby stroller) was loaded on the plane. It was pretty unnerving however. I wonder how often that happens. The only ID we had on the scooter was the ticket the GA put on it.

On one leg of one flight the GA did not pre-board me. Since we were flying FC we just went to the front of the line. She had a little fit because she had to go find a gate check tag, but the whole thing was her fault. She did not open the gate until 40 minutes before the flight, and she had to assign seats to 15 people. I sat in the line to get the gate check tag, and she ignored me. So we just went to board as soon as they started boarding.

On a terminal flight from SAN to SFO, the entire plane emptied and my scooter did not arrive, nor did the big, full-sized scooter of another lady on the plane. The FAs and Pilot, Co-Pilot were anxious to leave the plane and kept trying to find out what was happening with the scooters. Eventually the pilot went to find them.

After looking all over the area he found the baggage handlers had somehow moved the scooters out of their freewheel position and were carrying them. Not a huge problem with my 114 pound scooter, but the other scooter weighed 350 pounds. There apparently was no way for the baggage handlers to lift the scooter from baggage to the door of the plane. They took some long route around the end of the terminal and then man-handled the scooters on a freight elevator. The Pilot found them there, and helped them put the scooters in freewheel. I leave the key in my scooter, but for some reason they continued to push them down the full length of the terminal. The other lady never leaves a key in her scooter. Maybe they had to treat them both the same. My husband finally left me on the plane and went down the terminal, got my scooter and rode it to me.

Since we had now been on the ground for over 60 minutes I expected to find our two suitcases revolving around on a lonely carousel. Alas, when we reached the carousel no one had any luggage. We waited another 15 minutes for luggage to start to appear because the luggage handlers had a "higher priority", which I assume was the delivery of our scooters. I hope my fellow passengers did not know that it was my scooter that delayed everyone's luggage.

The lady traveling with the full-sized scooter had experienced all kinds of difficulties on this day, including having her scooter left at her first point of departure, and having to catch up with it in Chicago. The luggage handlers also broke her headlight and damaged her turning mechanism. She had no idea what to do about those issues, and neither did I, but I did suggest that she contact the airline staff that deals with damages to luggage.

Overall, I think I will continue to travel with the scooter. It is just extremely difficult for my husband to push my wheelchair when we are being tourists. Frankly, he probably needs to be in a wheelchair himself. Not only did I save $400 by not having to rent EVCs in the theme parks where we went with our grandchildren, but we went all kinds of places where I would have stayed in the car and read a book. We spent time looking around the historic district in San Diego. We went to a couple of museums in San Francisco, and spent two nice days on Fisherman's Wharf as well as two days starting at the Embaradero and wandering through the city. I have not had so much fun on a vacation in years. The freedom was so delightful.

I continue to worry about the airline people actually putting my scooter on the plane when I gate check it. I know of no way to make sure this happens if we do not have seats on that side of the plane. I think it would be obnoxious to always ask a FA to check that it has been placed on the plane.

The pilot suggested that we included a set of simple instructions for moving the scooter so luggage handlers could refer to them. The people who had so much trouble said they had received no training in moving the scooters. I have doubts that anyone will read any instructions, but I think we will do that anyway. One thing I will absolutely do before I travel again is make sure there is plenty of identification right on the scooter in case it gets "lost".

Even with these problems, which were potentially significant, it was, overall, a great experience. I cannot imagine going anywhere without it, now that I have discovered how useful it is.

Not sure how we are going to manage Europe or Turkey later this year, but will keep you posted. In the meantime, if anyone has ideas to avoid the difficulties we experienced, please let me know.

Thanks for the update. I stick stickers with my name and address on every removable part of my chair, as well as on the chair frame. If something gets separated at least it can be sent to me.

Great update - Thanks !
We've been thinking about providing some instructions with ours as well.
Did two weeks in Germany in April (mostly Hamburg) with little curb difficulty.
In October we're planning to really give it a test. We're flying through Amsterdam to Prague (KLM Cityhopper) and then taking the train to Vienna, before flying Air France to Paris. I'll let you know how the scooter fares on that one.

Dennis

I taped my business card onto all parts of my sticker after we saw the plane nearly leave it behind. When I get back to Florida I am going to have my name and address engraved on it in several places.

I would love to hear about your experiences in Europe before we leave for Istanbul. I think, however, that we will be going from September through October.

My husband still has reservations about the scooter on the rough cobblestones, but I am ready to give it a try. Maybe I will try it on the cobblestones in Savannah before we go to Istanbul.

The only ID we had on the scooter was the ticket the GA put on it.


+1 on labeling your mobility aids. I have a brass luggage tag engraved my name, address, phone number & email address permanently affixed to my wheelchair.

Thanks for posting your experiences so far.

Fran, what do you want to know about Europe? I'm European, so might be able to help you out some.

Dennis; at AMS the boarding assistance will be supplies by EMT trained outsources staff. Pretty OK folks, simply explain to them how YOU want to handle things and they'll comply with things. Now KLM and assistance might be a bit more adventurous. They tend to need a reminder once onboard and again after landing.

Be aware though of AMS baggage handlers. They have a bit of a reputation on this department, so pack accordingly and also; put some instructions on the ECV within sight!!! About 50% of the times they will be smart enough to read it and comply. If possible; disable the ECV for usage while out of your sight. AMS baggage handlers know how to overrule a regular disconnection of power. Might be OK, but I've seen my share of them driving ECV's and powerchairs where any fool can see they have no 'ability' to drive in more than one of those instances.

It's my home airport, and as long as I tried them nice but as if explaining things to them as I would to a toddler (and dealing accordingly), things tend to go without a hitch. If not; problems await.

If you haven't already; arrange a wheelchair for the transfer. At AMS they will not supply the power driven aids at the gate, but at baggage claim and no exception will be made. They take their time a bit to unload and reload the scooter, so no way to use it while at AMS.

And; enjoy it! If you have time; visit the AMS airport museum. It is great!

At AMS they will not supply the power driven aids at the gate, but at baggage claim and no exception will be made.

That's the part I hate. They do the same thing at CPH. I really hope that the disability laws in the EU will be amended to stop this practice. What if I wanted to stop at AMS for a few hours to see the city, then comee back to the airport to continue my flight? I can't do that because i can't sit in an airport wheelchair for that long without problems, and I can't take it from the airport. This is unequal access. I learned about this when I had to sit in an airport chair for 4 hours, at CPH, waiting for my next flight. The only way to avoid this is to fly on 2 separate tickets, one to AMS, and one from AMS, then repeat on the return journey.

That's the part I hate. They do the same thing at CPH. I really hope that the disability laws in the EU will be amended to stop this practice. What if I wanted to stop at AMS for a few hours to see the city, then comee back to the airport to continue my flight? I can't do that because i can't sit in an airport wheelchair for that long without problems, and I can't take it from the airport. This is unequal access. I learned about this when I had to sit in an airport chair for 4 hours, at CPH, waiting for my next flight. The only way to avoid this is to fly on 2 separate tickets, one to AMS, and one from AMS, then repeat on the return journey.

Pretty simple; have the chair only labeled to AMS if one wants to see the city, and have it relabeled at AMS for the second leg of the journey. You do NOT have to have 2 tickets in such an instance.

To be honest, I think people need to look at the way they are looking things. I might get myself in a pickle here, but I think you've got too much of a US way of looking at things and expecting the rest of the world to have a same way of looking at things. It is different in Europe, plain and simple. It has it's own ways of doing things, it's own histories, opinions, cultures, including it's own legislation about flying with a mobility disability. One can expect things to be different as soon as one crosses it's own countries borders for both the possitive and the negative.

Unequal access when discussing that relative small little bump? In that case I might advise you not to have Europe in your top 3 of 'want to visit' places. Europe is a great continent to visit. It has so unbelievably much to offer, but one does need to be able to let go of the US-standard of expectations. Just like I need to let go of my Dutch expectations when going to the US, or elsewhere in the world.

Maybe it never came to you as an idea, but that airport wheelchair would be avoided if one brings along a manual chair themselves. Been there, done that, still do it, including on all of those US-airports that follow the same standard. ;) Not only can it serve such a purpose, but also one has at least some back up when the primary chair gets damaged/lost/replaced/delayed. It's a longer shot to have that happen to 2 chairs than one, although not impossible. And lo and behold; EU legislation covers the bringing along free of charge of up to 2 mobility aids (including wheelchairs) per person. :)

Flyingwheels, Thanks for the great info. One of my route choices includes a plane change at AMS. If I am reading correctly you are saying that if I gate check my scooter at JFK I cannot expect it to be delivered to me at the door of the plane when I arrive in AMS. Do they just move the scooter from the JFK-AMS plane and load it on the AMS-IST plane? That seems a little scary to me.

About Europe: What accommodations are made on public transportation for disabled people. Are there access ramps? Are most buildings disabled-friendly? Will there be ramps into museums? art galleries? retail shops?

What can I expect on the ground? Are there cut-aways at every corner so I can cross the street easily? Are sidewalks friendly to scooters or are there points when they convert into stairs?

I remember all the barriers we had in the US prior to the ADA act, and worry that I will experience the same problems when I leave the US.

I have spent a huge amount of time in Turkey over the past three years, always keeping one eye open for how I would manage every situation on the day I am completely unable to travel without my wheelchair. That day has arrived. I know which types of public transportation I can use, which places I can shop with ease, and which sidewalks I can take without experiencing barriers along my route.

I am aa bit worried about the cobblestones. I am not concerned about a rough ride, but I do not want to break anything on my scooter.

My greatest hurdle in Turkey are the very high curbs. Knowing I would face this obstacle we bought a very light scooter. I can simply get off, we can lift it over the curb and cross the street. Knowing the Turkish people as well as I do, I do not actually expect I will ever lift my scooter. My goal will be to get off of the scooter before five kind souls attempt to lift both me and the scooter over the curb. In Turkey the disabled still depend a great deal on the kindness of strangers, but fortunately that is not in short supply.

Just read your response to DeafFlyer, and I understand your complaint about expectations of US citizens. I do have to defend DeafFlyer's perception, however. I do not know how legislation is created in Europe, but in the US many laws are grassroots movements that are created by average citizens demanding over and over and over that something be done. Sometimes laws come after private citizens take the government to court because they are violating basic rights guaranteed to all citizens.

After a law is passed, those same grassroots individuals have to make sure that the law is enforced. They are the people who insure that the city actually makes it possible to cross a street, and a movie theatre makes a place for a wheelchair. State and local governments and private business do not just quickly make adjustments because Congress passed a law.

In the US the argument of the disabled is always "equal access" based on the concept of equality for all guaranteed to us in the Declaration of Independence. It was not easy to be on the forefront of the disabled movement, as I suspect DeafFlyer was. Disabled people were turned away from businesses that did not want to accommodate them. They were ridiculed in the newspapers. They were often treated with contempt by politicians, and their fellow able-bodied citizens.

When the ADA was passed I had no need for special accommodations, but today I bless every single disabled person who forced Wal-Mart to add disabled parking. I bless ever single disabled person who pointed out that the local movie theatre had no way to accommodate my needs. Without DeafFlyer and those other brave souls, my life would be so much more difficult today.

I doubt I could have participated in this agitation for change. I struggle every day to make sure that no one has to do anything "special" for me. In my own home I still get up to get my own glass of water while my family screams that it would be so much easier on them if I just asked rather than forced them to watch my struggle.

I would miss a movie rather than ask a theatre owner to make a place for me to sit. I would just give someone a list of things to purchase in Wal-Mart rather than enjoy browsing through the store myself.

There are millions of disabled people like me who are still embarrassed by the state of their own mobility and hesitant to ask for special accommodations. Each of us owe a huge debt to people like DeafFlyer who spot every area where we do not have equal access and demand change.

I know that this demand for equality is not part of the culture of many European countries, so I have no idea what to expect in terms of accommodations. I can share DeafFlyers frustrations about European methods of assisting the disabled, but, in my own embarrassed way I am prepared to work around whatever barriers I discover.

I will not, however, travel with two wheelchairs unless I find a new husband. He already has to keep track of an expensive camera and assorted lenses, two laptops, my C-Pap machine, my carry-on bag, four huge pieces of luggage and assorted bags I purchase along the way. I think the idea of also taking an extra wheelchair might strain the bonds of my 45 year-old marriage.lol

Pretty simple; have the chair only labeled to AMS if one wants to see the city, and have it relabeled at AMS for the second leg of the journey. You do NOT have to have 2 tickets in such an instance.


Well, it didn't work that way last year at CPH. I told them at AAL that I need my chair at CPH. They said, "No problem". On arrival I was told that I can't get my chair. They then pushed me to a special lounge and made me wait there until it was time to get me for the next flight. Now, it's possible that since my trip occurred right after the rules went into effect, that there were some bugs to be worked out and maybe now what you suggest will work. I haven't had the chance to try yet, but will soon enough.


To be honest, I think people need to look at the way they are looking things. I might get myself in a pickle here, but I think you've got too much of a US way of looking at things and expecting the rest of the world to have a same way of looking at things. It is different in Europe, plain and simple. It has it's own ways of doing things, it's own histories, opinions, cultures, including it's own legislation about flying with a mobility disability. One can expect things to be different as soon as one crosses it's own countries borders for both the possitive and the negative.

I'm not stating this from any US, or other political entities', viewpoint, but rather from the viewpoint of one with disabilities who wants to be independent and given the right to decide what I want to do or where I want to go. It seems like you're saying that I don't have the right to criticise the way the EU set up their system of disabled access. I think that I, as a relatively frequent visiitor to the EU, should have the right to voice my opinion about how it's done. Of course, I have no vote, but I can at least speak up, can't I? I'm aware that things are done differently there, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. That said, our US ways of doing things can be improved as well, but that's for another thread.


Unequal access when discussing that relative small little bump?

My chair is my legs. It was cusstom built and designed for me. I am able to be independent by using it. When you plonk me into an airport chair and leave me sitting in a lounge, you have taken my independence away from me. You (not you personally) have created a barrier that would not exist by simply giving me my chair for the few hours I need it. It isn't that hard to deliver it to the gate. They did it for flights prior to the legislation going into effect. The OP may not be as dependent on their scooter as I am on my chair, but I still think they should know what can happen.


In that case I might advise you not to have Europe in your top 3 of 'want to visit' places. Europe is a great continent to visit. It has so unbelievably much to offer, but one does need to be able to let go of the US-standard of expectations. Just like I need to let go of my Dutch expectations when going to the US, or elsewhere in the world.

Do we really need to argue over this? You are making assumptions about me that are wrong. I have family in Europe and go there quite often.


Maybe it never came to you as an idea, but that airport wheelchair would be avoided if one brings along a manual chair themselves. Been there, done that, still do it, including on all of those US-airports that follow the same standard. ;) Not only can it serve such a purpose, but also one has at least some back up when the primary chair gets damaged/lost/replaced/delayed. It's a longer shot to have that happen to 2 chairs than one, although not impossible. And lo and behold; EU legislation covers the bringing along free of charge of up to 2 mobility aids (including wheelchairs) per person. :)

Yeah, I knew that. However, I didn't bring my powerchair last time. My trip began prior to the new access rules, and the return trip occurred after they went into effect. I saw both ways of doing things during one round trip. Certain things were improved, but not the one I commented about. That one thing is worse.

Flyingwheels, Thanks for the great info. One of my route choices includes a plane change at AMS. If I am reading correctly you are saying that if I gate check my scooter at JFK I cannot expect it to be delivered to me at the door of the plane when I arrive in AMS.

True. And if you ever were to fly from AMS; they require you to check powerdriven aids at the check in desk (well, it's a special baggage desk, but it's in the same location). So basically everything past check in has to be done without powerdriven aids, with the exception of the carts used by Schiphol employess. To make your connecting flight you can either arrange an airport wheelchair and in specific instances if one is available, they'll haull down an electrical cart. Whether you think you need it or not; get yourself wheelchair assistance. AMS is a big spread out airport and since you are flying in from the US and onto a flight within Europe (not EU yet, though!) there is about a 100% chance you'll need to chance terminals. You'll be thankfull for the help and they'll get you past check points quicker. ;)

Do they just move the scooter from the JFK-AMS plane and load it on the AMS-IST plane? That seems a little scary to me.

Again correct. Nothing to be scared about. Actually, that is running less risk of damage than having the scooter brought to you and then back onto plane 2 again. Getting them up from the tarmac to the airport itself is where damagerisk is the highest. Doesn't mind which airport for this by the way, have the same experience with that on airports all around the world. If there were to be any damage, where it occured is not the biggest thing for you. You'll need to file a complaint at the airport you find out about the damage, which for you would be IST of JFK. The airlines branch from that country is responsible for following up on your complaint, for which the rules are worldwide. So on this subject it is basically 'easy', as we wont have to fight different rules about different max. damage coverage etc.

About Europe: What accommodations are made on public transportation for disabled people. Are there access ramps? Are most buildings disabled-friendly? Will there be ramps into museums? art galleries? retail shops?

It does depend a lot per country. Simple rule of thumb is; the more southern you get, the more challenging things tend to get. Scandinavia is a lot friendlier than for instance Greece. All tends to be pretty linked to a countries history and architecture. For instance, Mediterranean countries tend to have a architecture with high curbs, high thresholds to get into older buildings etc. You'll find less curb cuts with such a type of architecture. Museums and 'touristy' places tend to be of a higher scale of accessibility. Not all will be accessible, but they tend to be pretty OK. Shops; different subject. New malls are very accessible, older buildings can be problematic.

Public transportation differs a lot per country. Some have accessibility which compares pretty OK to the US, others have few and in between accessible transportation. Basic thing is that there are countries that have some rules about getting the assistance you need. As far as I know, Turkey isn't one of them. Most of the major cities in Europe are doable with public transport, allthough it might be a bit different than the US. Accessible cabs tend to be pretty easy to find.

However, these countries have one major asset; helpfull locals. Very willing to help you tackle a threshold, you name it. One trick you can teach yourself at home; crossing thresholds/getting onto curbs. You will be very glad if you can manage those yourself. I can manage curbs of upto about 30 cm (about 12/13 inches) on my own. With that, I can create A LOT more freedom when one has to totally rely on level flooring.

What can I expect on the ground? Are there cut-aways at every corner so I can cross the street easily? Are sidewalks friendly to scooters or are there points when they convert into stairs?


No curbcuts on all corners. It's a bit of a surprise trip. ;) It depends a bit on the country and even on the city and village you are at (driving skills can differ a lot), but a lot of touristy places are either doable through the sidewalks or by driving on the road right beside the sidewalks. They're used to us, allthough I wouldn't recommand doing this on places like the Champs Elysee in Paris. :D

Also, concrete is not used as commonly as in the US. I tend to kid about the US being one big concrete slab. It isn't ofcourse ;) but overhere they tend to have the habit of wanting things to look fitting to the rest of the architecture. Which translates into smaller stones, cobblestones etc. being used a lot on walkways etc. Worst place for that; De Dam in Amsterdam. Dreadfull place, allthough they have refitted it with a wheelchair lane. (a lot better, but most don't see it untill it's too late)

I remember all the barriers we had in the US prior to the ADA act, and worry that I will experience the same problems when I leave the US.

I can understand it being a bit of a shock when one is used to ADA levels. My advice? Take it with a bit of humor, and go with the flow. You'll have to think outside of the box a bit and do things different than you are used to. But if you are able to do so, a lot still will be very doable. Definately different than in the US, but that is also one of the charms why people do come to Europe.

One thing you might want to be warned about; accesible bathrooms. NOT what you are used to in the US. Different rules and most important difference probably for you; less of them than you are used to in the US. Don't be surprised if you'll find a few being used as storage. Yep.... being worked on that subject, but it takes times. Ask where ever you are though! I've found accessible bathrooms in the places I least expected them. Nothing in big department store but then find 3 very tiny bars with a fully accessible bathroom.

I have spent a huge amount of time in Turkey over the past three years, always keeping one eye open for how I would manage every situation on the day I am completely unable to travel without my wheelchair. That day has arrived. I know which types of public transportation I can use, which places I can shop with ease, and which sidewalks I can take without experiencing barriers along my route.

If you can do Turkey, I'm confident you'll manage. Turkey is on of the 'worse' places on this deparment.

I am aa bit worried about the cobblestones. I am not concerned about a rough ride, but I do not want to break anything on my scooter.

My greatest hurdle in Turkey are the very high curbs. Knowing I would face this obstacle we bought a very light scooter. I can simply get off, we can lift it over the curb and cross the street. Knowing the Turkish people as well as I do, I do not actually expect I will ever lift my scooter. My goal will be to get off of the scooter before five kind souls attempt to lift both me and the scooter over the curb. In Turkey the disabled still depend a great deal on the kindness of strangers, but fortunately that is not in short supply.

You got the picture! :) And as said; Turkey is one of the most challenging countries within the EU. Sounds like you have the right set of mind to be able to enjoy the trip.

Legislation is for the biggest part a subject for each country of its own. Most of the disability legislation is done that way. So, there can be a lot of differences per country. I know about the ADA's and AACA's history. It is a bit of the same way overhere, with the BIG difference that Europe didn't have to deal with a 'mass flow' of disabled vets. A lot of the differences is based on culture and history. Architectural structures dictate a lot. Nobody wants to knock down the Sacre Coeur for instance, eventhough it isn't particularly disabled friendliest. US architecture does make it a lot easier to establish accessibility, even after a building has been build.

Also, culture seems to focus differently. For our little corner of the world for instance, we focus A LOT on high levels of care, social security, income security and the availability of aids. You wouldn't believe the legislation on that part. For instance; get a car including any adaptations needed, so you can provide for yourself. No transportation to work, means no work after all. Need the work floor changed so you can enter and work there? Never mind what it costs; they'll pay it. Need a wheelchair that costs €50.000,-? You get it. Can't manage cleaning your own house? Again no problem; for a small apartment, one person household, I get about 8 hours a week paid for help to do that stuff for me. She cleans, cooks, does the groceries if needed, you name it. We're a pretty 'stubborn' country when it comes to income. We do not have a disability pay like most western countries do. We don't want to use a system where one gets paid (or not!) based solely on a diagnosis, but opted for a system where one gets compensated for the possible loss of income caused by the fact one becomes/became disabled and/or ill.

The focus is different, it's not unwillingness. Public life is on the agenda, changes are occuring but they don't come overnight and it does have to fit into the 'essence' of what a country is and wants. For instance; the Anne Frank House isn't accessible for a large part. However; most of us don't even WANT it to be that way. To do so, would mean they'ld have to destroy too much of what makes it the Anne Frank House, it would take away the experience the museum is trying to get across. So, the museum now works with those that need accessibility to get some accessibility, to have museum workers talk to them, tell the stories, show the objects they can fetch but the attic itself remains unaccessible.

Do we really need to argue over this?

As far as I knew, we weren't arguing. Apparently you might have been. To answer the question; no we do not have to.

As far as I knew, we weren't arguing. Apparently you might have been. To answer the question; no we do not have to.

Great! I don't want to argue. I actually enjoy what you bring to this forum. I was just commenting on one aspect that I do not like. Has nothing to do with you.

Great! I don't want to argue. I actually enjoy what you bring to this forum. I was just commenting on one aspect that I do not like. Has nothing to do with you.

Oh, I know it has nothing to do with me. Takes a bit more before I start thinking that. ;)