Korean Air Skypass - Detroit Metro wants customers to lobby airlines for nonstop flights to Seoul

http://detroitnews.com/article/20090430/BIZ/904300408/1001/Detroit-Metro-wants-customers-to-lobby-airlines-for-nonstop-flights-to-Seoul

Next stop, Seoul?

Officials of the Wayne County Airport Authority hope so.

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They're asking local business leaders and residents to e-mail letters of support for new, nonstop service between Detroit Metropolitan Airport and Seoul, the capital of South Korea. Korean Air used to fly the route in the 1990s, but ended service to Detroit in 1998.

Even with some service losses over the past few months -- including pullbacks on service to Asia and Europe -- Metro will, in June, gain new nonstop service to Rome and Shanghai.

Officials want Seoul to be next.

"Seoul has a lot of demand from Detroit passengers," said authority spokesman Scott Wintner. "More than 30,000 people a year fly between Detroit and Seoul, and we see a lot of opportunity for a direct flight."

Metro officials estimate roughly $40 million is spent by passengers flying between the two cities, not counting passengers who would fly to Detroit to connect to the new service.

After Seoul, the most in-demand destinations without nonstop service for Detroit-area travelers are Beirut, Lebanon (which is off-limits because of U.S. security restrictions); Mumbai and Delhi, India; Stuttgart, Germany; Beijing; Hyderabad, India; and Munich.

The call for new nonstop service comes at a difficult time for the aviation industry. Most airlines -- including Delta, Michigan's largest carrier -- are pulling back on service in response to recessionary slumping demand.

But Michael Boyd, founder of Colorado-based aviation consultancy The Boyd Group, said now's the time for airports to start gathering support for new service once the economy turns around.

"You've got to keep barking up the tree," Boyd said. "That's how these things get going. The only wild card is how changes in the auto industry might change travel patterns in Detroit."

There are three likely players to bring the service: Asiana, Korean Air and Delta. Boyd said Delta or Korean Air would make the most sense, since they're partners in the SkyTeam Alliance and could easily ticket connecting passengers through Metro's MacNamara Terminal hub. Asiana, which is part of the competing Star Alliance with United Airlines, wouldn't have the advantage of robust connecting traffic.

None of the three airlines said it is looking specifically at Detroit-to-Seoul service right now, but Delta spokeswoman Susan Elliott said the company will "continuously monitor the markets we serve and should demand warrant it, we would consider additional international service."

Wintner, the authority spokesman, said airport officials remain hopeful the petition, which is collecting support via e-mail at seouldetroit@gmail.com, will help convince a carrier to start new service once recessionary woes start to recede.

"Our customers' letters of support helped us get the service to Rome," Wintner said.

"We feel like this would be a lucrative decision for an airline, too."

nhurst@detnews.com (313) 222-2293

http://detroitnews.com/article/20090430/BIZ/904300408/1001/Detroit-Metro-wants-customers-to-lobby-airlines-for-nonstop-flights-to-Seoul

Next stop, Seoul?

Officials of the Wayne County Airport Authority hope so.

Advertisement

They're asking local business leaders and residents to e-mail letters of support for new, nonstop service between Detroit Metropolitan Airport and Seoul, the capital of South Korea. Korean Air used to fly the route in the 1990s, but ended service to Detroit in 1998.

Even with some service losses over the past few months -- including pullbacks on service to Asia and Europe -- Metro will, in June, gain new nonstop service to Rome and Shanghai.

Officials want Seoul to be next.

"Seoul has a lot of demand from Detroit passengers," said authority spokesman Scott Wintner. "More than 30,000 people a year fly between Detroit and Seoul, and we see a lot of opportunity for a direct flight."

Metro officials estimate roughly $40 million is spent by passengers flying between the two cities, not counting passengers who would fly to Detroit to connect to the new service.

After Seoul, the most in-demand destinations without nonstop service for Detroit-area travelers are Beirut, Lebanon (which is off-limits because of U.S. security restrictions); Mumbai and Delhi, India; Stuttgart, Germany; Beijing; Hyderabad, India; and Munich.

The call for new nonstop service comes at a difficult time for the aviation industry. Most airlines -- including Delta, Michigan's largest carrier -- are pulling back on service in response to recessionary slumping demand.

But Michael Boyd, founder of Colorado-based aviation consultancy The Boyd Group, said now's the time for airports to start gathering support for new service once the economy turns around.

"You've got to keep barking up the tree," Boyd said. "That's how these things get going. The only wild card is how changes in the auto industry might change travel patterns in Detroit."

There are three likely players to bring the service: Asiana, Korean Air and Delta. Boyd said Delta or Korean Air would make the most sense, since they're partners in the SkyTeam Alliance and could easily ticket connecting passengers through Metro's MacNamara Terminal hub. Asiana, which is part of the competing Star Alliance with United Airlines, wouldn't have the advantage of robust connecting traffic.

None of the three airlines said it is looking specifically at Detroit-to-Seoul service right now, but Delta spokeswoman Susan Elliott said the company will "continuously monitor the markets we serve and should demand warrant it, we would consider additional international service."

Wintner, the authority spokesman, said airport officials remain hopeful the petition, which is collecting support via e-mail at seouldetroit@gmail.com, will help convince a carrier to start new service once recessionary woes start to recede.

"Our customers' letters of support helped us get the service to Rome," Wintner said.

"We feel like this would be a lucrative decision for an airline, too."

nhurst@detnews.com (313) 222-2293



Hardly any chance. Detroit is just pathetic. Live about ~50mi away from Detroit, and I would not be surprised at all if DTW even loses some of existing international services.

i do not think this will happen.
KE has a daily service to ORD, JFK and ATL
With merge between delta and northwest,
Northwest will not pursue for that route

I heard Asiana wants to start a service to ATL

What is the reason for such a demand to Korea from DTW? Is there a large korean population in or near DTW? Not that would be the only factor in large demand for a particular city but I am surprised.

My guess that it's due to the Detroit automobile industry. Korea is a major player in the worldwide auto industry as well and there's a lot of business tie-ins between the two countries. But with the trouble in the auto industry now, it seems like a very bad time to start such a route. Not trying to belittle anyone living in Detroit, but it's one of the most economically depressed major cities in the US right now and a whole lot of the population doesn't have money to be taking flights to anywhere they don't need to. I just read that Detroit doesn't even have any major supermarket chains anymore. I think even in good economic times it would be a difficult task convincing any airline to fly Seoul to Detroit, but with the airlines hurting, I think it's next to impossible.

My guess that it's due to the Detroit automobile industry. Korea is a major player in the worldwide auto industry as well and there's a lot of business tie-ins between the two countries. But with the trouble in the auto industry now, it seems like a very bad time to start such a route. Not trying to belittle anyone living in Detroit, but it's one of the most economically depressed major cities in the US right now and a whole lot of the population doesn't have money to be taking flights to anywhere they don't need to. I just read that Detroit doesn't even have any major supermarket chains anymore. I think even in good economic times it would be a difficult task convincing any airline to fly Seoul to Detroit, but with the airlines hurting, I think it's next to impossible.



I doubt. Korea is really a minor player in the U.S. auto industry, at least compared to Japan. I have spotted quite a few Japanese automobile companies within Detroit area, however I am yet to see any Korean. I am in College of Engineering at UM, and I do see Japanese automobile companies interacting with the school and the students often. However, never see any Korean. My perception is that the presence of Korean automobile companies is nominal in Detroit area for sure. What makes up that 30,000 passengers is probably connections from all the cities that NW serves. That said, the figure is very fallacious. I wonder if even 25% of those passengers originate from Detroit. If all the 30,000 pax originated from DTW, there is a good chance for KE to do three weekly 772 flights. However without connections, not feasible.

Hyundai has set up a big engineering facility between Ann Arbor and Detroit (Superior Twp). N227UA...don't know if you're being recruited (they probably are not too interested in entry-level needs) but they advertised pretty widely about 6 mos ago. Unfortunately, the business structure of the [I]chaebol[I] are not necessarily up to the task of developing offshore manufacturing businesses (viz: Hyundai's failure in Bromont, Quebec 15 or so years ago, Kia's on-again/off again plant in West Point, AL, and their swamping the daily rental fleets with oceans of Sonatae)

Unfortunately, the business structure of the [I]chaebol[I] are not necessarily up to the task of developing offshore manufacturing businesses (viz: Hyundai's failure in Bromont, Quebec 15 or so years ago, Kia's on-again/off again plant in West Point, AL, and their swamping the daily rental fleets with oceans of Sonatae)

The Slovakian-built KIA Cee'd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_cee%27d) is among the most successful small-medium cars in Europe. I've driven one and it puts comparable models by Ford and Renault to shame.

No chance. 30,000 per year is less than 100 per day. That would mean nothing over, say, 2 days a week would be viable. Plus the Detroit economy is tanking.

i do not think this will happen.
KE has a daily service to ORD, JFK and ATL
With merge between delta and northwest,
Northwest will not pursue for that route

I heard Asiana wants to start a service to ATL

Korean Air also flies to Toronto.

Asiana to ATL? I think Canada will happen first due to star alliance connections. Maybe Toronto.

Hyundai has set up a big engineering facility between Ann Arbor and Detroit (Superior Twp). N227UA...don't know if you're being recruited (they probably are not too interested in entry-level needs) but they advertised pretty widely about 6 mos ago. Unfortunately, the business structure of the [I]chaebol[I] are not necessarily up to the task of developing offshore manufacturing businesses (viz: Hyundai's failure in Bromont, Quebec 15 or so years ago, Kia's on-again/off again plant in West Point, AL, and their swamping the daily rental fleets with oceans of Sonatae)



I am currently not being recruited and rarely go out of Ann Arbor, so I have not heard anything about the engineering facility. In any case, Korean automobiles takes around only 5% of U.S. automobile market share IIRC. That is pretty small.

I just read that Detroit doesn't even have any major supermarket chains anymore.

I curretly live in Metro Detroit. I certainly wouldn't say it's rosy here - it's a tough situation. We do, however have some national grocery chains (Kroger) as well as some local ones (Hollywood Market, Busch's, Hillers, etc). People still have a place to buy their food.

I will also say that I flew to DTW-CUN over memorial day, clearly a leisure route over a leisure period. The flight to CUN left super early (6:30AM), and returned to DTW late (10:20ish PM), so it was mostly locals traveling, not connecting traffic. Both flights were zeroed out, so people are still traveling for leisure, though probably not as much as before.

Hyundai-Kia is building a manufacturing facility in Georgia (in additional to the one already operating in Alabama), so that might explain Asiana's interested in Atlanta. That said, KE already flies the route, and I would think that would cover the demand (even if they ramp up frequency).

Its also worth noting that the US military has something like 30,000 troops in Korea. A lot of these troops, and their families, come from the south, explaining further demand from Atlanta. I believe that Korea has just turned from a one-year to three-year assignment for many of these service members, and that means more families will be welcome to relocate to Korea - extra seats needed, I guess.

The auto industry related traffic between Detroit and Seoul is mostly attributable to the GM Daewoo technical and design centers in Korea (whose scope of work had increased substantially in recent years), not to Korean automakers (Asian automakers have no interest in moving into UAW-controlled Michigan).

I imagine there is a sizeable Korean-American community in Michigan, as usually found in US states with top-notch public universities.

Outside of Hyundai-Kia manufacturing in Georgia and Alabama, there is a huge presence of Korean auto supplier industry Michigan. Your GM, Chrysler, or Ford may have upto 20% of parts made from Korean companies.

I imagine there is a sizeable Korean-American community in Michigan, as usually found in US states with top-notch public universities.

Michigan State University and University of Michigan has over 2500 Korean national students attending these institutions. It isn't unusual for incomming class of 1000 to 1500 students attending Korean students orientation per semester.

i do not think this will happen.
KE has a daily service to ORD, JFK and ATL
With merge between delta and northwest,
Northwest will not pursue for that route

I heard Asiana wants to start a service to ATL

Where did you find out OZ will be introduce new route for ICN-ATL? How? When? What?

The statistic about "no chain supermarkets in Detroit" is factually correct....mostly.

Right now, the only chain full-line supermarket department in the city of Detroit is at the Super K-Mart (Super K has full groceries, deli, meat, bakery, produce plus a full K-Mart... www.superkmart.com ) on Telegraph and 8 Mile. You can argue whether or not this constitutes a "chain supermarket", but it probably does. There's been talk about Meijer opening on the State Fairground at Woodward and 8 Mile, but nothing has come of it. There also have been some Aldi grocery stores opening up, but they don't meet the normal definition of chain supermarket

Previously, there were 2 Farmer Jack supermarkets (Livernois and 7, and East Jefferson Avenue) which Kroger declined to purchase from A&P when A&P left the Midwest/South in 2007. They were both spun off to local grocers (which, interestingly, in Detroit are overwhelmingly Chaldean). Kroger had a bad experience with their final store(s) in Detroit which soured them on opening in the city.

The supermarkets are lined up on the borders of the city, unfortunately...along 8 mile, in the Grosse Pointes, right over the border in Dearborn/Dearborn Heights/Lincoln Park...it's, unfortunately, a big gap in the city here. It is quite amazing, though, how busy the Eastern Market (city market in downtown) is on weekends.

I live just outside the city limits and used to shop at the Farmer Jack on Livernois at 7 occasionally--it was a perfectly fine city supermarket, and i wanted to support it. Unfortunately, there's no reason to drive past independent supermarkets closer to me, so I don't go there any more (and haven't shopped at Kroger at all).

The statistic about "no chain supermarkets in Detroit" is factually correct....mostly.

I wanted to point out that it's factually wrong. Within Detroit, there are several Spartan supermarkets. I know of 3 locations on 7 Miles road, within Wayne State Campus, and near up-river area.

I wanted to point out that it's factually wrong.

I want to point out that it's factually moot! :o The "City of Detroit" is hardly representative of the larger region that DTW serves. It has one of the largest catchment areas of a major US airport given the unique geography (lack of major commercial competition in a state that is surrounded by water).

What's more, the auto MANUFACTURING industry is in dire straights... which has a huge impact on Detroit, but Michigan is still a top R&D state (largely based upon the auto industry but with many other applications), which is where that transoceanic traffic demand comes in. Most of the Asian automakers still do their R&D right in Michigan! Despite the depressed economy now, when it inevitably swings around, the demand for travel to and from the R&D market of Detroit will prove to survive the storm. The "masses" of workers laid-off from the manufacturing slump, while bad for Michigan's economy, weren't the people buying tickets overseas in the first place.

That means DL or NWA... No thank you.

That means DL or NWA... No thank you.

Connecting at DTW is way better than ORD (or ATL for that matter). And as a Skypass member, wouldn't you prefer to connect with DL/NW?

Besides, with all the talk of JL hooking up with DL, KE better make sure its place in Skyteam is secure.

Personally, those miles don't mean too much to me. Especially reward programs are not like what it used to be anymore. I think the poor service especially at the airport counter and onboard (not as bad since I can sleep 9 hours at a time) caused me to rethink about my travel habbits. I now drive to a city where there are other airliners available.

Here is what I noticed. I got lucky and barely made my flight at SDF airport even if I showed up 2.5 hrs before my departure time. at 4:15am, there were TONS of people lined up to check in bags.

Then I noticed, NWA counter was empty and now we have both DL and NWA passengers lined up. DL counter had TWO workers. They had to ignore people with questions. They had to focus on their work. They had people missing flight yelling and rudely told them to go to another line that was a mile long.

THEN I found out that there were people in lines only to use the kiosk. So, now we had NWA/DL flyers and everyone who only needed to use the kiosk were all mixed up. All this could have been avoided just by putting up a sign for Kiosk users.

Then a month later, after I sent my comment to Delta, same situation.
First of all, why would they place kiosks at the counter instead of other side like MWY airport?

This is something that is unthinkable at foreign airports. Not to mention the negative attitudes from counter workers and I know it is not their fault.

But I CANNOT imagine working for a company who would treat their employees like that dealing with hundreds of people with problems and put two people in charge.

Therefore, I chose not to support DL/NWA. Merging is going to create more power for them to dictate and yes, just wait. We will all pay more for crappier service and run out of choices.

Just my humble opinion.

Personally, those miles don't mean too much to me. Especially reward programs are not like what it used to be anymore. I think the poor service especially at the airport counter and onboard (not as bad since I can sleep 9 hours at a time) caused me to rethink about my travel habbits. I now drive to a city where there are other airliners available.

...

Therefore, I chose not to support DL/NWA. Merging is going to create more power for them to dictate and yes, just wait. We will all pay more for crappier service and run out of choices.

Just my humble opinion.

Can't argue with that. I agree with your points. I am (was?) a big fan of NW and not of DL, especially the way they have mangled the merging of stations (btw, T5/6 at LAX is just as bad).

My point about KE and Skyteam stands, though. I would not want to see them take a backseat to JL (or be third wheel at oneworld/star alliance), especially with all the investment at ICN.

Yeah I am with you all the way. I need to back companies like KAL so I can effectively avoid supporting DL/NWA. Thanks for your comments.

Where did you find out OZ will be introduce new route for ICN-ATL? How? When? What?

It is a long story.. Never ending battle between KE and OZ.

OZ had exclusive service to SEA and KE had ORD. Once they find profitable routes, they lobby hard to get an approval from the Korean government.
For Korean companies, you can not open a route if you want.. Now they are serving both cities SEA and ORD.

OZ wanted to new service to ATL, when its mother company (Kumho) planned to build a tire manufacturing company in Macon, GA in 2008.
But the plan was cancelled due to the slow economy.

It is a long story.. Never ending battle between KE and OZ.

OZ had exclusive service to SEA and KE had ORD. Once they find profitable routes, they lobby hard to get an approval from the Korean government.
For Korean companies, you can not open a route if you want.. Now they are serving both cities SEA and ORD.

OZ wanted to new service to ATL, when its mother company (Kumho) planned to build a tire manufacturing company in Macon, GA in 2008.
But the plan was cancelled due to the slow economy.



What are you talking about? The U.S. and S.Korea signed open-sky treaty a long time ago. Both KE and OZ can fly wherever in the U.S. they want.

DTW-ICN will now be served by DL, starting summer 2010.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=776

On a side note,
drop-out rates of Korean students are believed to be quite high.
At Ivy League institutions, about 50% Korean students fail.
Recently I read in a local Korean newspaper about that. The Korea Herald or The Korea Times.??
In Germany, I also saw more Korean drop-outs than graduates at the university I studied.


At simple math, if there are 1000 to 1500 entering Korean students(without graduate students) every semester, the total number of Korean undergraduates should be 8000 to 12000 (supposing they are all in good standing and eventually graduate in 4 years).
Your number is 2500 Korean students in Michigan. So, does that mean 5500-9500 Korean students drop out in the end? If so, that is an astonishingly high drop-out rate.


Michigan State University and University of Michigan has over 2500 Korean national students attending these institutions. It isn't unusual for incomming class of 1000 to 1500 students attending Korean students orientation per semester.

What are you talking about? The U.S. and S.Korea signed open-sky treaty a long time ago. Both KE and OZ can fly wherever in the U.S. they want.


Yes, there is open-sky treaty between the U.S. and S.Korea (signed 1998). However, things are not working that way (at least between KE and OZ)

http://news.koreatimes.com/article/235879 (korean language)

Korean government only allows 2nd airline serves US city if passengers between S.Korea and US city are over 210,000 per year.

Where did you find out OZ will be introduce new route for ICN-ATL? How? When? What?

News (2008-05-13)

http://www.koreaheraldbiz.com/article.php?id=10123 (also Korean language)

Summary. Kumho Asiana group started construction on tire plant and vice president of airline division attended the opening ceremony. He said "OZ considers ATL-ICN as 1st candidate for next new route." There was a rumor that OZ would open a non-stop service in 2009.


Oh well.. plant construction is gone..

Kia is building and will soon open a massive new factory in West Point, Georgia, about sixty miles south of Hartsfield on I-85. The factory could well generate enough traffic to support a second ATL-ICN flight. Besides, DL had a 4x/weekly ATL-ICN flight until quite recently. Perhaps OZ can make a go of it. Only thing is few * Alliance connections out of ATL.

Meanwhile, DL gives DTW the ICN route it wants. ^ Sounds like a much better move than running ATL-ICN in competition with KE. DL's DTW route will have all those connections at the legacy NW hub on one end, and to KE flights on the other, with no direct competition on the point-to-point route. I see a few KE codeshares coming.

DL will start nonstop flight from DTW to Seoul starting 6/1/2010.