Australia, New Zealand & the South Pacific - To Uluru or not To Uluru

I have booked a trip to Australia and will be there 12 nights in June. I arrive in Mel (2 days) and would like to go to Syd (2-3 days) and the Great Barrier Reef (Cairns - 5-6 days). That leaves a couple of days extra, which I would like to go see Ayers Rock. As it stands, if I go to Ayers Rock, it will prob double my domestic fares (though that is not a big issue), and its a lot more flying. My question is, would you do it, or stay somewhere else on the east coast and save Ayers Rock for another visit (probably along with Perth)?

I usually travel for a mix of local culture, history/museums and outdoor stuff. so I want to get a mix local urban and activity (diving, hiking, etc).

TIA for your suggestions.

I have booked a trip to Australia and will be there 12 nights in June. I arrive in Mel (2 days) and would like to go to Syd (2-3 days) and the Great Barrier Reef (Cairns - 5-6 days). That leaves a couple of days extra, which I would like to go see Ayers Rock. As it stands, if I go to Ayers Rock, it will prob double my domestic fares (though that is not a big issue), and its a lot more flying. My question is, would you do it, or stay somewhere else on the east coast and save Ayers Rock for another visit (probably along with Perth)?

I usually travel for a mix of local culture, history/museums and outdoor stuff. so I want to get a mix local urban and activity (diving, hiking, etc).

TIA for your suggestions.

If you want to get a completely different perspective to the Eastern States and get a real feel for the Australian outback, its sense of colour and space, and get a feel for the indigenous people's culture, I would certainly include Ayers Rock and the Olgas.

However, having done the Eastern States, you could dedicate another trip to the outback, and include Kakadu, Ayers Rock, Perth and Northern Western Australia, all of which have some spectacular scenery.

You might have a look at some other threads in this forum which are relevant to your question

No need to go all that way, for a taste of the "culture" just go to Wilcania, or Moree.

It's a rock - sure, it's a big rock, but it's still a rock.

No need to go all that way, for a taste of the "culture" just go to Wilcania, or Moree.



Nothing beats having your car stolen and a few of the locals paying an unrequested midnight visit to your motel room.

neuron- Your itenerary and travel style are almost identical to ours. We have booked 4 Uluru tours through Eco Tours. They run small group tours that seem somewhat better at "experiencing" rather than just "seeing". You might check into them if you decide on Uluru.

Having said that, I've read there is no need for an organized tour to hike around Uluru or at the Olgas/Valley of the Winds. I've rented a car and will probably cancel those 2 tours. Apparently the sunset viewing area is better for cars than buses, too!

The two other tours are astronomy at the Uluru Observatory and a 4WD tour to Cave Hill, a rich site for aboriginal rock art. We are waitlisted on the latter, it is not well-advertised and they need 4 people minimum. We will take an alternate tour to Mt. Connor if Cave Hill does not work out.

Originally Posted by shillard
No need to go all that way, for a taste of the "culture" just go to Wilcania, or Moree.

Obviously I'm missing a "cultural" nuance of some sort...care to enlighten us Americans??

neuron- Your itenerary and travel style are almost identical to ours. We have booked 4 Uluru tours through Eco Tours. They run small group tours that seem somewhat better at "experiencing" rather than just "seeing". You might check into them if you decide on Uluru.

Having said that, I've read there is no need for an organized tour to hike around Uluru or at the Olgas/Valley of the Winds. I've rented a car and will probably cancel those 2 tours. Apparently the sunset viewing area is better for cars than buses, too!

The two other tours are astronomy at the Uluru Observatory and a 4WD tour to Cave Hill, a rich site for aboriginal rock art. We are waitlisted on the latter, it is not well-advertised and they need 4 people minimum. We will take an alternate tour to Mt. Connor if Cave Hill does not work out.



Obviously I'm missing a "cultural" nuance of some sort...care to enlighten us Americans??

Kenish In one of my PMs I did mention some of the problems with the indigenous people , but I think the comment is a bit of a cheap shot to be frank.

Obviously I'm missing a "cultural" nuance of some sort...care to enlighten us Americans??

Crime in those outback towns can be very high....

http://myboot.com.au/2400/Moree/crime.aspx

Kenish In one of my PMs I did mention some of the problems with the indigenous people , but I think the comment is a bit of a cheap shot to be frank.

Try this, which gives some idea of the problem

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/white-ignorance-about-indigenous-issues-fails-everyone-20090426-ajcm.html?page=-1

Or this

http://www.inquirysaac.nt.gov.au/report_summary.html

There is an overwhelming acceptance by Australians that there is a major, major problem, and any visitor to the Australian outback will get an appreciation of how an ancient social structure has been substantially destroyed.

What to do to solve the problem is a separate and very complex and difficult issue.

If anyone wants some further background, please PM me

I have booked a trip to Australia and will be there 12 nights in June. I arrive in Mel (2 days) and would like to go to Syd (2-3 days) and the Great Barrier Reef (Cairns - 5-6 days). That leaves a couple of days extra, which I would like to go see Ayers Rock. As it stands, if I go to Ayers Rock, it will prob double my domestic fares (though that is not a big issue), and its a lot more flying. My question is, would you do it, or stay somewhere else on the east coast and save Ayers Rock for another visit (probably along with Perth)?

I usually travel for a mix of local culture, history/museums and outdoor stuff. so I want to get a mix local urban and activity (diving, hiking, etc).

TIA for your suggestions.

With only 12 nights, I think trying to see 4 cities/areas is a bit too much, particularly when you factor in travel time between them. If you had more time, I would recommend that you visit Uluru, but not in such a limited time.
Also, if you are coming from NYC, don't forget to allow time to deal with a major case of jet lag!

BTW, you could easily add another day or two in SYD and even MEL. Be sure not to miss seeing the Great Ocean Road http://www.greatoceanrd.org.au/ when you visit MEL. This is one of the world's great scenic ocean drives. It can be done in one very long day.

I came to Sydney from NYC and had zero jet lag, nothing at all... maybe its just me.


I'd also like to do Uluru but what's with the airfare... it costs more to go there than New Caledonia or even Kuala Lumpur for a weekend.


Is there a more sensible way of getting there from Sydney (for a weekend getaway)

--Russ

Uluru (from an airline perspective) is a 100% tourist attraction. All facilities are geared towards tourists, so airfares are generally high.

If there's no rush and you've flexible time, I'd just wait for a sale.

You can fly to Alice Springs and get yourself down to Uluru. I think fares to Alice are slightly cheaper as it's actually a town. If you're going for a weekend, I'd consider an extended weekend especially if you're to include Alice.

Thank you to everyone for their input. One of the major reasons I wanted to visit Uluru/Ayers Rock was for its spiritual and cultural significance to the local people. I am sure I will go to Australia, so I will probably save Uluru for the time I trek across the country.

The Great Ocean Road sounds like a good idea, just got to remember to drive on the left!!! :D

One advantage of my flights is I will be flying Biz. I do not normally get jet lag, so I am off and running once I am off the plane. MY friends think my travel plans hit too many places, so it made me think about taking a leisurely holiday (whatever that is! ;) ).

I too had no jet lag on the way there, but on the way back a different story....

an idea that I haven't seen posted yet is what I decided to do - take the overnight Ghan train from Melbourne to Adelaide then Adelaide to Alice Springs. Going overland when you can doze, gaze out the window, and meets lots of people made the trip that much more worthwhile.

I, too, had some issues with the "locals" in Alice / on the road to Ayers Rock (you can rent a cheap car through National / europcar with unlimited miles. the others I saw all had mileage restrictions which you will go over if you drive to Uluru).

Thank you to everyone for their input. One of the major reasons I wanted to visit Uluru/Ayers Rock was for its spiritual and cultural significance to the local people. I am sure I will go to Australia, so I will probably save Uluru for the time I trek across the country.

The Great Ocean Road sounds like a good idea, just got to remember to drive on the left!!! :D

One advantage of my flights is I will be flying Biz. I do not normally get jet lag, so I am off and running once I am off the plane. MY friends think my travel plans hit too many places, so it made me think about taking a leisurely holiday (whatever that is! ;) ).

No need to drive on the left...or even drive at all. Let someone else do the driving. APT http://www.aptouring.com.au/content.asp?Document_ID=24502 will do it all for you and even pick you up at your hotel and drop you off there at the end. If you want to see as much as you can in a limited amount of time, this is the way to do it.

You will have plenty of reminders along the Great Ocean Road: "In Australia Drive on Left" signs are posted all over, after every single overlook or rest stop.

I went to the 12 apostles and it was a great drive, albeit you might get better view from a bus, as in a smaller car you're pretty much looking at the guardrail most of the time...

plus its cheaper on the bus anyway, gas is way more expensive further inland than it is say at Geelong.

You will have plenty of reminders along the Great Ocean Road: "In Australia Drive on Left" signs are posted all over, after every single overlook or rest stop.

I went to the 12 apostles and it was a great drive, albeit you might get better view from a bus, as in a smaller car you're pretty much looking at the guardrail most of the time...

plus its cheaper on the bus anyway, gas is way more expensive further inland than it is say at Geelong.

Sadly, the 12 apostles are down to 9, or is it 8?

Many rental cars have a small but bright sticker on the dashboard that says:

<--- Keep Left

:)

I came to Sydney from NYC and had zero jet lag, nothing at all... maybe its just me.


I'd also like to do Uluru but what's with the airfare... it costs more to go there than New Caledonia or even Kuala Lumpur for a weekend.


Is there a more sensible way of getting there from Sydney (for a weekend getaway)

--Russ

You could always take the bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Priscilla,_Queen_of_the_Desert). ;)

As has already been mentioned it is a big rock in the middle of nowhere.

Sadly, the 12 apostles are down to 9, or is it 8?

Unfortunately there are only 8 left standing - still a magical sight.

Because of erosion unfortunately the 12 Apostles is not 12 anymore. Only 8 left standing. One collapsed recently in 2005.

http://traveltippo.com/great-ocean-road-vic-australia/

(This piece reads a bit strange, as I was sorting my thoughts out as I wrote it. It concludes very differently from how it starts.)

ALL I GOT WAS A ROCK... There's just no real good way to put this. I traveled 1500 miles in Australia, at great expense, to stay three days at a resort that's a government-sponsored monopoly and thus again, at great expense, to see something people view as mystical and having a palpable presence that you can feel from miles away. Uluru, also known as Ayer's Rock, is indeed an impressive monument out in the middle of nowhere, and it's easy to see why the Aboriginal Peoples of Australia would regard it with such reverence. And the very fact that this is such a place of importance to the original inhabitants of Australia makes it important to me. But from a spiritual perspective, I come away with a greater appreciation for what God has provided me with on this planet when I'm out on a bike ride, and even when those bike rides are in France, they come at less expense than a trip to Ayer's Rock.

But part of the attraction, for those who are into "people watching" (I certainly am), is to figure out what brings other people to The Rock. Some of it is an Australian fascination with anything big. But you quickly discover that the average Australian has never been to The Rock, or even the Outback in general for that matter. They speak of wishing to see it some day, in the same manner that someone in the US who hasn't been to The Grand Canyon might, or, sadly, Disneyland.

But for those who do make the pilgrimage (and it truly is a pilgrimage, as there's simply no easy or inexpensive way to get there), you find many who are seeking a connection with "Mother Earth" in the manner that less-"modern" cultures clearly have, and it's an inescapable fact, facing you everyday you're at Ayer's Rock Resort, that the differences in that regard, between the Aboriginal Peoples of Australia and those coming to their homelands, could simply not be greater. Perhaps that's the point of the photo below, showing Ayer's Rock against a backdrop of a modern solar cell farm.

http://www.chainreaction.com/ayers_rock_3232.jpg

That "Mother Earth" thing keeps coming back to me, as I think of those I met at Ayer's Rock Resort. Either generic male/female married folk (typically older, on an extended vacation of dramatically greater length than the 10 days I felt comfortable being gone), or individual women, or women traveling in pairs, but no such men. Ayer's Rock seemed to call out more to women than to men, although from a spirituality point, it did not call out to my wife. It did, however, create a strong need for her to go back and learn more about the people and their art and how they were molded by the harsh environment of the Outback.

If I return to Ayer's Rock some day, I'll do it differently. I'd take the long long trip on the Ghan rail line (long because, despite the incredible distances it travels, and despite the fact that most of the line has nothing in the way to slow it down, it cruises along at a leisurely 70-80mph, maybe even a bit slower, compared to the 160mph+ speeds of many rail lines in Europe), and stay at the "inexpensive" ($150/night for a cabin without indoor plumbing, but with air conditioning) campgrounds. I'd try to avoid the trappings of the resort lifestyle as much as possible and become more connected with the land.

But- here's the thing- when we first arrived at Alice Springs, the major Outback airport about 240 miles from Uluru/Ayer's Rock, and I walked out onto the tarmac of a desert airstrip with brush & tumbleweed for miles around, and 100+ degree temperatures, my very first thought was of my grandparent's ranch in the Sacramento Valley, a little town named Maxwell. And I was thinking gee, what has this place got that Maxwell doesn't? Find a big nearby rock (perhaps the Sutter Buttes?) and create an epic resort around it, steeped in mysticism and history. Why not?

It's taken me until just now to figure out why not. Because somehow, some way, Australia rediscovered its ties to those who came perhaps 40,000 years before it was "discovered" by European explorers. There is a modern Australia that's prevalent, but there are ties to its Aboriginal heritage everywhere you go. Maxwell, California, has no such ties to its earliest inhabitants. In Maxwell, California, the only connections to Native Americans are found on billboards for their Casinos. Native American culture has a difficult, if not impossible time co-existing with modern Euro-American culture, and not just because the newcomers did what they could to clear them out, but also because our society is so assimilative. The Aboriginal Peoples of Australia were remote enough to escape such assimilation and could maintain their culture and way of life long enough to find a time when Australia's mainstream government and people decided that there was something worth honoring and preserving in a meaningful way.

After writing the paragraphs above, I realize that Uluru/Ayer's Rock has affected me much more than I'd thought, and that I was wrong to think that it should be some moving, mystical experience to be worthwhile. It's brought home to me important lessons about the past, and how differently we view our bond with the land than those who came before us.

I'm not just glad I came to visit Ayer's Rock, I'm fortunate to have done so.

Nicely written.