Las Vegas - Is Vegas really hurting ?

I hope so.
And I'll tell you why.
Last week I sat in the Monte Carlo Brew Pub in Happy Hour listening to four barmen complaining about how bad Vegas is as I kept tapping my empty margarita glass on the bar.
Eventually one of them deigned to serve me another one and said " Five bucks and in a couple of minutes it will be 11 bucks. "
It wasn't his rudeness but the fact that Vegas is still charging 11 bucks for a margarita in the teeth of a recession that made me realise they deserve some pain.

when you have to pay that much for a drink it's time to go somewhere else :).

Oh, and yes, Vegas is really hurting (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/las-vegas/876031-vegas-really-hurting.html). ;)

when you have to pay that much for a drink it's time to go somewhere else :).

Oh, and yes, Vegas is really hurting (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/las-vegas/876031-vegas-really-hurting.html). ;)

Well normally I would head for the Tequila Bar at Bally's where during Happy Hour you got a massive bowl of tequila and some chips and dips for about six dollars.
Disappointed to find there's no happy hour now, it's seven dollars for a small tequila and 14 dollars for a big one but you get to keep the commemorative glass.Thanks but no thanks.
There were whole swathes of empty gaming tables in all the casinos but I didn't see any great concerted effort to get the crowds back by offering genuine deals or reduced tariffs in restaurants and bars.
On the other hand you could take your pick from the many sullen and often downright rude staff working in them - there was nearly an international incident when I sent back a corked €40 bottle of wine at the Wok place in MGM.
However, on good note, this tightwad can report that the Ellis Island Brewery and Casino is still offering it's steak and a beer for €6.99 24/7 and the place was heaving.
You'd think some of the bigger casinos would go figure.

Ellis Island is a completely solid place to eat for those that are looking for some decent off-strip food. It's reasonably priced & good food!

Ellis Island is a completely solid place to eat for those that are looking for some decent off-strip food. It's reasonably priced & good food!

Especially when you're paying for four including two young eating machines !
We had about a 40 minute wait so I headed for the bar and sank two of their ales which were really very good.
And soup/salad,steak and a beer all for €6.99 was a fantastic bargain.
Obviously it's not going to be to everyone's taste but I met some casino workers eating there too so it can't be bad.

Ellis Island has a $5 match play on their dining room tablepapers, so your food could be free...

I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I live, restaurants and bars seem to still be doing all right. I'm sure business is down. And there are certainly more "specials" going on. But I haven't really noticed food or drink prices having gone down at all. Vegas may be hurting, but people are still drinking? :rolleyes:

I have a noticed a big drop in business at even the most popular places.

Recently went to the ever jammed Cafe Bizou in Sherman Oaks (L.A.), CA and found it MUCH quieter, even on a Saturday night--the fact that we even got an 8PM rez on Sat. night on short notice speaks volumes. Same is true at many other L.A. spots.

On the other hand (or city :D) had to use local connections to get a 6PM table on a Monday night at Gibson's on Rush in Chicago a few weeks ago. Even with connections, couldn't get anything later.

Friends in Vegas tell me it is much worse there than people think. Not just the tourist biz, but the real estate biz.

Vegas really picked up in the last month (after the stock market rose).

Lots of people. Occupancy is high due to lower room rates (way lower rates),
but it's much emptier than 2007 and a lot of the big players are gone.

I heard talk that Encore and the Palazzo may close on weekdays.
Staff at some hotels is down 1/2-2/3.

Clubs are MUCH easier to get into than 2007. They are giving away passes like candy. Sometimes I see 10-20 people at a time going into the clubs with no one using the cash register.

I like how some of the clubs (The Bank at Bellagio) have more space to dance now. Pure (Caesar's Palace) is still way too packed on Tuesdays (same as 2007), but the lines outside the club are MUCH shorter.

The M resort seems really active though. Very busy.

Ellis Island is a completely solid place to eat for those that are looking for some decent off-strip food. It's reasonably priced & good food!

Is Ellis Island the one with Metro Pizza? Quite good, from what I remember.

Mike

Especially when you're paying for four including two young eating machines !
We had about a 40 minute wait so I headed for the bar and sank two of their ales which were really very good.
And soup/salad,steak and a beer all for €6.99 was a fantastic bargain.
Obviously it's not going to be to everyone's taste but I met some casino workers eating there too so it can't be bad.


As far as "bang for the buck" ? IMO! There is no better deal than ELLIS
located at "mid strip" but located off the Strip. While i hate crossing the
Strip(live on the west side) and can speak for alot of locals on traffic.
Ellis Island is a very favorable draw to alot of tourists & locals alike.
It may not not have the luxurious draw/feel of most resorts & look
the cleanest? You can eat & drink alot for so little $ compared to other
establishments located nearby that close to the Strip.

But for the locals again. Traffic is a major issue so we tend to go there
off peak hours especially when we want to eat those delicious ribs!

Vegas really picked up in the last month (after the stock market rose).

More to do with the weather than the stock market, IMO. Vegas has always been slow between NYE and the SB, and also the cold period thereafter. Once the pools start opening up and/or becoming attractive, people always come out, especially Californians and visitors from colder places.

Personally, I'm just not seeing the dramatic slowdown that doom-and-gloomers keep wailing on and on about. Reduced rates or not, most hotels have been at or near 98% capacity for the last couple weekends; restaurants and clubs have also been crowded, and most of the ones I've personally been to recently haven't reduced their charges. Certainly they are not as busy as prior years, but I'm not just seeing this dramatic downturn that everyone else seems to be dreaming up. Vegas should be far more worried about overexpansion than the economic downturn.

Personally, I'm just not seeing the dramatic slowdown that doom-and-gloomers keep wailing on and on about.

Then you don't have money invested in this sector of the market, or you weren't paying attention during the past two quarters' conference calls.

Although I do agree with you that over-expansion is just as much of a threat as the current economy. Filling all those CityCenter rooms along with current room stock will be tough.

Then you don't have money invested in this sector of the market, or you weren't paying attention during the past two quarters' conference calls.

Casino stocks have been a terrible gamble even before the economic downturn.

Is Ellis Island the one with Metro Pizza? Quite good, from what I remember.

Mike

Ok bbq-decent brewpub.Very good pizza.
The coffee shop is ok-just ok.
But it is soooo cheap
Used to eat here quite often when I lived down the street.

I heard talk that Encore and the Palazzo may close on weekdays.
Staff at some hotels is down 1/2-2/3.


Wouldn't it be impractical for these places to close on weekdays? Only way this happens is if they close for good. And I doubt that's going to happen anytime soom, if at all.

Casino stocks have been a terrible gamble even before the economic downturn

Regardless of whether or not that is true, my point was that most of the major players in the Vegas market are publicly held companies; their financial reports are strictly regulated, and not just "doom and gloomers" trying to make Vegas sound like it is in worse shape than it is.

Cashdrop, hold percentage, room fill rate, RevPAR, flights in/out of LAS, convention sizes, the number of conventions, and restaurant revenues are all down, by large percentages, and all this information is from readily-verifiable sources. To try to deny this must require enormous blinders.


Wouldn't it be impractical for these places to close on weekdays? Only way this happens is if they close for good. And I doubt that's going to happen anytime soom, if at all.

I think it was on LVA, but I think the gist of the rumor is that they would close the hotel portions of Encore/Palazzo during the week, while leaving the restaurants, pools, casinos, and shops open. I don't see this happening.

If occupancy is down 30% or more then I can see them closing down floors as this would be cost effective on a time & motion basis and allow them to use less staff.

Places Encore/Palazzo I would assume would depend to a large extent on inhouse guests to use all their facilities. What would off the street usage be?

I think it's more practical to close down tables than close down the whole casino.

Question though. If say the Encore or the Palazzo closes their casino and you happen to be a hotel guest there. Does this subject the hotels to false and deceptive marketing liability? Even though you may only be contractually paying for the room and not the casino, the fact is that the casino is part of the hotel marketing. There are fine print for something like pools, but I don't think there's fine print for casinos.

Regardless of whether or not that is true, my point was that most of the major players in the Vegas market are publicly held companies; their financial reports are strictly regulated, and not just "doom and gloomers" trying to make Vegas sound like it is in worse shape than it is.

Cashdrop, hold percentage, room fill rate, RevPAR, flights in/out of LAS, convention sizes, the number of conventions, and restaurant revenues are all down, by large percentages, and all this information is from readily-verifiable sources. To try to deny this must require enormous blinders.

Except that the point is precisely that the reported numbers are not bad and it is doom and gloomers who are making it out to be far worse than it is. As I stated, the appropriate questions to ask as far as "large percentages" are concerned are "how large?" and "why?". Even in 3Q 2008 these companies were seeing only what, ~17-18% drop in revpar which is worse but certainly comparable to the drops that hotels nationwide were seeing. So is Vegas itself really doing that badly and hurting that badly? Furthermore, if the difference can be considered substantial enough to be attributed to a certain cause, is it because of the bad economy or the rabid overexpansion that these companies have dug themselves into?

I also don't know why you still bring up figures like occupancy when several hotels have been reaching 98%+ over the last few weekends. The slashing of room rates has guaranteed that, and obviously they are counting on these guests spending in other areas to bring up revpar... or heck, they're simply happy taking the revpar hit. Bellagio for one actually ran out of suites last weekend for RFBers, which was quite an embarrassment - my host, tail tucked between his legs, asked if I would consider downgrading to a lesser suite in return for future comps to help him out - so it's not just the value-seekers who are filling rooms.

To suggest that I am trying to deny that Vegas' companies' numbers are down is just silly. What I am challenging are the rampant claims that Vegas is hurting badly and especially the reasoning that it's the economy. But please, feel free to carry on with your barbs about "blinders". :rolleyes:

I'm there every 2 weeks or so & the place is virtually dead during the week. Here's the stupid part though...

1. Hotel rates are still fairly high.
2. Casino's aren't adjusting table rates. As an example a friend of mine & I went downtown 3 weeks to play some "cheap" roulette. At both Binon's & the Golden Nuggent, the $3.00 tables (craps, blackjack, roulette) were packed. Literally no place to sit or stand. Yet each of them had only one "cheap" table in play. Every other table had a $10.00 minimum and NO ONE was playing at those tables. We stopped & asked a pit boss why? His response was that they need to "regulate" their table action. Huh??? How about the fact that they were regulating no one into playing!!!

I feel ZERO sympathy for people/companies that make bad business decisions. Hey Vegas, wake up & smell the roses, YOU'RE HURTING YOUR OWN BUSINESS with idiotic policies...

Elite Status Is Not A Matter of Life and Death...It's Much More Important Than That!

I'm there every 2 weeks or so & the place is virtually dead during the week. Here's the stupid part though...

1. Hotel rates are still fairly high.
2. Casino's aren't adjusting table rates. As an example a friend of mine & I went downtown 3 weeks to play some "cheap" roulette. At both Binon's & the Golden Nuggent, the $3.00 tables (craps, blackjack, roulette) were packed. Literally no place to sit or stand. Yet each of them had only one "cheap" table in play. Every other table had a $10.00 minimum and NO ONE was playing at those tables. We stopped & asked a pit boss why? His response was that they need to "regulate" their table action. Huh??? How about the fact that they were regulating no one into playing!!!I

- You didn't really expect an intelligent answer from a pit bozo, did you? :) Although what you describe is anoying from a player perspective, casinos do this because it's to their benefit to do so. The bigger picture is that table minimums have come down significantly at many properties.

- I've found hotel pricing to be down dramatically, probably back to where it was in the period after 9/11.

- I was there mid-week a couple of weeks ago and it was hard to tell there was a recession on. I hear most visitors are spending less, however.

-

- I was there mid-week a couple of weeks ago and it was hard to tell there was a recession on. I hear most visitors are spending less, however.

After over 25 years of planning/holding conferences and small conventions, I had developed a pretty good range of contacts in the hotel sales business, some of whom had migrated to LAS over time.

We still talk, and while all display the superficial optimism that all's well, several of the major properties are in deep kim-chi, with cash flow dropping below operating and debt service requirements, almost unknown in the gambling business. Now owned by publicly held companies, not the sort of shady operators that once decorated the Strip, apparently some are struggling to find new, interim and bridge financing to raise the cash to continue to operate fully.

One of my contacts claims that much of the "drag" is coming from some of the non-Vegas casinos, which if Tunica's an example, have to be hurting. Another lays the slowdown at the feet of the "mid-range" gamblers, the guys at the $25 and $50 tables visibly absent these days.

For sure, I can tell you the small meeting and large convention numbers are off, far fewer small groups and lower attendance at the affairs with 500-10,000 attendees.

If this trend continues throughout the year, and this Christmas/New Year's "run" is more disappointing than the last, watch for some doors to be shuttered.

:rolleyes:
so you hope the entire city is hurting just because you needed another drink? :td: Were you gambling? No? then why would you expect a cheap drink?

If you want cheap, stick with Elko...

Climb off your high horse a moment Tonto and re-read what I wrote.
I didn't say I needed a cheap drink - I said Vegas doesn't need expensive drinks in the teeth of a recession.
If you think 11 dollars plus tip for a margarita served with a snarl is good value at a time like this you're as dumb as the knuckle-draggers behind the bar wondering why no-one was there.

Was in Vegas the last two weekends and both times my hotel was sold out Fri/Sat night. However, there was still plenty of room at the tables with low limits any time of the day.

Was in Vegas the last two weekends and both times my hotel was sold out Fri/Sat night. However, there was still plenty of room at the tables with low limits any time of the day.

My observation too.
Easter weekend crowds busy.Plenty of people promenading.The shows were pretty busy.But very few people gambling especially at the higher end.
What surprised me more is that during midweek many of the restaurants on the Strip were very quiet but none appeared to be doing anything to lower prices or offer deals to get people in off the street.
I just got the impression of a city still in shell-shock and not doing anything about it which when you consider Vegas's history seems bizarre.
It's kinda why I made the €11 margarita observation in the OP.

What surprised me more is that during midweek many of the restaurants on the Strip were very quiet but none appeared to be doing anything to lower prices or offer deals to get people in off the street.

I dunno, there are a lot of pre fixe meal deals to be found on the strip... I think pretty much all of Light Group's restaurants are offering these (fix, stack, etc.), and I've heard of others - even local independent restaurants - running value-oriented promos as well.

Some of the properties are cutting capacity at high end restaurants by rotating restaurants closed a day midweek. This is obviously a preferred method to the companies, mirroring the capacity cuts in hotel rooms earlier this year. I wouldn't expect to see deals or price drops at the gourmets in any case.

I just got the impression of a city still in shell-shock and not doing anything about it which when you consider Vegas's history seems bizarre.

Actually, when I consider Vegas history, I see a city that basically likes to stand still..... Well, that would be until the Mirage and the post "Disney'ification" of Vegas.

Though, Vegas previously was always successful during recessions since it was focused on its CORE BUSINESS, gaming. ;););)

Of course, I prefer the NEW VEGAS; but historically, IMO, Vegas was very much a town run by nice Italian and Jewish guys who knew how to properly manage casino properties, and their gaming customers.

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Vegas is definitely hurting. At the poker table the bitter locals seem to outdo each other in bragging about how much they have lost in their real estate investments. It's always some figure in the millions and then they want to sell me a condo. As if. I guess they think it will work, because one player did actually lose his house and buy a $40K condo. Before it was too late, I tried to politely point out what kind of neighbors he will have in a $40K condo (crack cookers who get sloppy and start fires) but he just didn't get it. I'd rather live in the Imperial Palace than go that route. But, yeah, it's bad. People are losing their houses and investments, and they aren't shy to let you know about it, since they assume it is happening to everyone.

I don't understand the mentality of people who come to Vegas and buy a drink. Just sit down and play, and they'll bring you a drink. If they're really charging you $11 for a margarita, well, it's pretty easy to learn a game where your expected loss is less than $11 an hour. Good grief, nut peddle 1/2 NL or something. Or if you can't stand poker, because, God forbid, another human being might win something from you, then learn basic strategy at blackjack and play at a slow, crowded, convivial low limit table where more time is spent high fiving each other than playing the hands. Your expected loss would be pennies on the dollar. And those bloodless faceless corporations are hurting real bad right about now. I hear the wildest rumors about some of them, such as center strip hotels closing for the summer months (I do not believe these rumors but I hear them). You can toss them a few pennies in the cup in exchange for a comped drink, right?

As another poster said, I've noticed the prixe fixe meals offered also. The deals are out there.

To the person who asked: If Palazza or Encore close their casinos, they will just send the guests to gamble at Venetian or Wynn, I don't see a legal issue there. Sorry I can't spell Palazzo. (I'm trying two different ways and they're probably both wrong.) Similar to Golden Moon and Silver Star in Philadelphia. You can close Golden Moon during the week and send everyone to Silver Star. Not a big deal.

Vegas is definitely hurting. At the poker table the bitter locals seem to outdo each other in bragging about how much they have lost in their real estate investments. It's always some figure in the millions and then they want to sell me a condo. As if. I guess they think it will work, because one player did actually lose his house and buy a $40K condo. Before it was too late, I tried to politely point out what kind of neighbors he will have in a $40K condo (crack cookers who get sloppy and start fires) but he just didn't get it. I'd rather live in the Imperial Palace than go that route. But, yeah, it's bad. People are losing their houses and investments, and they aren't shy to let you know about it, since they assume it is happening to everyone.

I don't understand the mentality of people who come to Vegas and buy a drink. Just sit down and play, and they'll bring you a drink. If they're really charging you $11 for a margarita, well, it's pretty easy to learn a game where your expected loss is less than $11 an hour. Good grief, nut peddle 1/2 NL or something. Or if you can't stand poker, because, God forbid, another human being might win something from you, then learn basic strategy at blackjack and play at a slow, crowded, convivial low limit table where more time is spent high fiving each other than playing the hands. Your expected loss would be pennies on the dollar. And those bloodless faceless corporations are hurting real bad right about now. I hear the wildest rumors about some of them, such as center strip hotels closing for the summer months (I do not believe these rumors but I hear them). You can toss them a few pennies in the cup in exchange for a comped drink, right?

As another poster said, I've noticed the prixe fixe meals offered also. The deals are out there.

To the person who asked: If Palazza or Encore close their casinos, they will just send the guests to gamble at Venetian or Wynn, I don't see a legal issue there. Sorry I can't spell Palazzo. (I'm trying two different ways and they're probably both wrong.) Similar to Golden Moon and Silver Star in Philadelphia. You can close Golden Moon during the week and send everyone to Silver Star. Not a big deal.



It may surprise you to know that there are some people who come to Vegas who don't feel the urge the gamble.
I am one of them.
I came to Vegas for a couple of days to show my kids the sights, take in a couple of shows and then head off to the Grand Canyon.
Actually I had one gamble - I put €5 in the giant-size one-arm bandit in Ballys, won $30 and walked away. I hoped it was a valuable lesson for my kids to quit while they're ahead.
I also sometimes come to Vegas for the boxing.But mostly I come to Vegas to people watch and relax.
Which is why I sit in a bar sometimes and wonder why people would pay $11 for a poorly-made margarita.
It's not being cheap because I spent thousands of dollars to end up sitting in that seat.
But my, don't some people get defensive on here about their 11 bucks margaritas. :D

showbiz, we autta get together in vegas somtimes. my hubby loves boxing, people watch & drink a good drink at the bar. but then, hubby and i have never watched a live boxing match. so one of the things i want to do for my hubby someday is to get ringside tickets.

gambling is not our thing either. we have a limit for gambling but no limit for food and drinks each time we visit vegas.

got some comp nights coming up and we're trying to get out there middle of may. we'll see tho. :)

I put €5 in the giant-size one-arm bandit in Ballys, won $30 and walked away.

IN €5
OUT $30

That's a pretty nifty slot machine. :D:D

What's it called? The Euro-Buster? ;)

IN €5
OUT $30

That's a pretty nifty slot machine. :D:D

What's it called? The Euro-Buster? ;)

I just hope it's not a currency exchange machine from the future! ;)

IN €5
OUT $30

That's a pretty nifty slot machine. :D:D

What's it called? The Euro-Buster? ;)

Heh,heh,heh - well spotted.
I only wish they would take euros then I could cut out the middle man !

- I've found hotel pricing to be down dramatically, probably back to where it was in the period after 9/11.

- I was there mid-week a couple of weeks ago and it was hard to tell there was a recession on. I hear most visitors are spending less, however. I stayed at Paris a few weeks ago for a trade event at the LVCC and although it was dead quiet we paid top rate for rooms. Trade show action was terrible -- attendance down dramatically, very few leads walking the hall, just other vendors and competitors circling each other. My client vowed not to return to that particular event. Cabbie talk was that the turnout for Magic, the big fashion trade event that had just come and gone before ours, was down by almost half. Eerily quiet around town: no lines for cabs at the Strip hotels, bars with three people in them, acres of empty tables in the casinos, immediate seating at upper-tier restaurants, etc.

Returning next week for another trade event and the show rate at the Luxor is $59.

Was here over the weekend. Seemed like it was busier than normal, however I didn't really notice a significant increase in people gaming.

Was here over the weekend. Seemed like it was busier than normal, however I didn't really notice a significant increase in people gaming.

This is the same impression I came away with after visiting 4/23-4/26. The general areas of the casinos were busier and the sidewalks of the Strip were more packed than when I visited in mid-February, but the tables were just as empty and the limits were still very low. I (happily) sat at a roulette table at Encore for 5-6 hours on Friday and Saturday night with a $10 minimum; when two other players would show up, they'd raise it to $15 for newcomers, but after awhile would drop it back down to $10.

The Luxor/Excalibur/MGM area seemed busier than Mid-Strip or Wynn/Palazzo area, but whether that was due to more people taking advantage of lowpriced rooms or just more strollers clogging the walkways is up in the air.

Was here over the weekend. Seemed like it was busier than normal, however I didn't really notice a significant increase in people gaming.

I was there 4/22-4/25 and noted the same. Absolutely no problem finding a $10 craps table, even on Friday evening at Palazzo, Caesars, Venetian etc.

One thing I did notice that I hadn't seen before was the "all day dining offers" at the buffets. A number of properties were offering an all day pass for $29.95 or thereabouts. We didn't do that because we didn't want to be tied to one location for b'fast, lunch and dinner.. plus the thought of going to a buffet 3 times in one day made me put on 10lbs just thinking about it :D

One thing I did notice that I hadn't seen before was the "all day dining offers" at the buffets. A number of properties were offering an all day pass for $29.95 or thereabouts. We didn't do that because we didn't want to be tied to one location for b'fast, lunch and dinner.. plus the thought of going to a buffet 3 times in one day made me put on 10lbs just thinking about it :D

Interesting. If that day pass also included a line pass then it might be worthwhile.

Interesting. If that day pass also included a line pass then it might be worthwhile.true dat. especially for the bellagio's or wynn's buffet. :D

Would be interested to hear from any experienced Vegas visitor about the May 20-21. I was there for the first time and there were lots of empty tables everywhere but I thought there were lots of people around so I wonder if it's normal to have people on the streets but not so much in the casinos themselves? Or maybe I don't know what lots of people means Vegas-style...

Here right now for a few hours. Lots of people coming in today, many families. Tables are still pretty empty for late afternoon (Venetian, Palazzo and Wynn).

I visit Las Vegas on a regular basis, averages out to a 3-day weekend once a month. I spent a number of years working in the hospitality industry---restaurants, hotels, etc. For the past 16 years I have working in accounting/finance.

I find the whole Vegas situation extremely interesting from both the human and financial side because I am lucky enough to understand both.

Admittadely there is a ton of anecdotel duscussion and the truth of the severity of the downturn is difficult to measure and liquid in nature.

My take based on conversations with dozens of friends working in Las Vegas in the industry combined with a thorough review of all the major players 10k's is that the optimists are living in an alternate reality and the pessimists are being overly optimistic.

Las Vegas was uniquely positioned to get crushed to the brink of its very existance by recent events. From increased competition to a high risk capital structure, everything is working against the big players.

Business is horrible and the reaction is typical of a spoiled child being denied an entitlement. Vegas long ago alienated the business cycle-resistant customer base when they began to not only cater to the high-end, but to specifically treat the low end like dirt.

I have experienced both ends of the spectrum, having a blast staying at the Frontier and playing with friendly dealers at Slots-A-Fun, and being RFB in a Fairway Villa at the Wynn.

My prediction is Vegas is getting a HARD punch in the teeth, and like a lot of us, could not deserve it more. I have seen too many of the attitudes similar to the original posters bartenders' and too few of those willing to give great service for a decent price.

Here is to hoping Vegas dusts itself off and returns to that grin with a couple teeth missing that I remember from the late '80's/early '90's.

ps. If $109/night at Encore with $50 food credit and $25 freeplay isn't enough to convince people things are horrific and getting worse just wait a year for the closings and big layoffs!

the problem isnt vegas, besides real estate and hotel capacity. and south florida got hit harder in real estate.

It seems that Las Vegas (or at least the helicopter companies) aren't really hurting at all...

I requested some offers to rent a helicopter to take some pictures of Las Vegas, Grand Canyon etc...

Hoping that things would be slow and I'll would be getting a decent rate I was slightly disappointed when I saw the offers...

About 2.000 USD per hour is a little to much for me, photography is still a hobby for me and not my job. Damn, 2.000 USD per hour is a lot... :confused: :D

the only place you can get cheap nonscheduled helicopter is some heli-skiing in europe.

$2K/hr isnt at all bad either.

the only deal ive seen involving helicopters/yachts/etc is a heli-fishing/hiking patagonian cruise, which had a 50% off.

I was in Vegas Thu and Fri last week. My impression: It's down about 25%. On a Friday night, Wynn's poker room had at least six empty tables. The Strip is almost frighteningly easy to navigate by car. At times, I was the only passenger car on the block, with all other vehicles either cabs or those annoying mobile ad trucks.

I look at City Center and am truly wondering how they will ever fill that.

indeed citycenter and then cosmopolitan = insanity. aria has dropped rates twice so far already.

who knows whats going to happen with Fblue though.

indeed citycenter and then cosmopolitan = insanity. aria has dropped rates twice so far already.

who knows whats going to happen with Fblue though.is aria/city center open for visitors yet?

I'm off to LAS next weekend (quasi M/R- thank you CO DEQM), and while I wanted to stay at the PH, rates there for next Sat are $190+, and Hertz is quoting me $65 for a compact for the one Sat night ???. So perhaps LAS is hurting, but given this is a summer weekend, with not much going on-- I was hoping for slightly lower prices. (PS-- I used points for Hertz and am booked at the Westin for $89--- which is a rate I've gotten there in years past--during stronger economic times :rolleyes: )

I'm off to LAS next weekend (quasi M/R- thank you CO DEQM), and while I wanted to stay at the PH, rates there for next Sat are $190+, and Hertz is quoting me $65 for a compact for the one Sat night ???. So perhaps LAS is hurting, but given this is a summer weekend, with not much going on-- I was hoping for slightly lower prices. (PS-- I used points for Hertz and am booked at the Westin for $89--- which is a rate I've gotten there in years past--during stronger economic times :rolleyes: )

I'm also in Vegas next weekend and was able to book a suite in THEHotel for very reasonable princing, don't recall how much exactly but I'm correct I only payed less that 1/3th of the regular price... About 100 EUR or so per night.

Don't rent a car so can't confirm that.

TI just announced a 72-hour sale, almost all Sun-Thu through August is $59 a night and almost all weekends are $139. Code is TI72HR.

Renovated rooms and I always have liked TI's location.

Again, with things as they are, I don't understand why even the most casual visitors would not take advantage of super low rates at Wynn/Encore. Any talk of staying at third rate hotels in this environment is just inexplicable.

Any talk of staying at third rate hotels in this environment is just inexplicable.

More child friendly
Cheaper food and beverage
Lower limits for gambling

Cheaper costs for a bed are only one element IMO.

More child friendly
Cheaper food and beverage
Lower limits for gambling

Cheaper costs for a bed are only one element IMO.

Excellent points. Recently stayed at Wynn for the first time because they paid me to do so, LOL. There are NO cheap food options there. Gambling also is spotty at best. Yes, you can walk somewhere else, but not everyone's idea of "vacation" is a long trek everytime you want to eat/do something fun.

P.S. Is dankyone calling TI "third-rate"? That's pretty funny, isn't it?

[duplicate, sorry]

Yes, you can walk somewhere else, but not everyone's idea of "vacation" is a long trek everytime you want to eat/do something fun.




...and not everyone's idea of a fun vacation is sleeping where you eat and have fun.
:cool:

...and not everyone's idea of a fun vacation is sleeping where you eat and have fun.
:cool:Thirdly, not everyone is so enamored of hotels where most of the time in the room is spent with one's eyes closed. :D

I often opt for "third-rate" hotels such as TI or (oh, the horror!) Bill's. Leaves more money for food and poker.

Thirdly, not everyone is so enamored of hotels where most of the time in the room is spent with one's eyes closed. :D

I often opt for "third-rate" hotels such as TI or (oh, the horror!) Bill's. Leaves more money for food and poker.
4. If I get an offer for a cheap room at Caesars or a free room at Harrahs/Ballys/Flamingo, I'm taking the free room.

5. Pirority check-in means a lot. I don't get that at the Wynn, et al where I'm a nobody.

Again, with things as they are, I don't understand why even the most casual visitors would not take advantage of super low rates at Wynn/Encore. Any talk of staying at third rate hotels in this environment is just inexplicable.

First how much time do you actually spend in the room? Second the table buy table miniums are always Higher at the so called High end properties! And I'm sorry that you think of the Mirage, Monte Carlo, Ceasars, Paris, and the others as Third rate. You can keep your nose as high as you want as this third worlders $$$ are as good as yours.

In all honesty, I cannot understand why anyone would pay more than $40 or $50 for a room in Vegas. I spend very little time in the room other than sleeping.... and in all honesty, when I sleep I do not recognize the difference in cost.

To me, as long as the room is safe and nothing is crawling in the room, I am a happy camper.

We stayed at Vegas Club on our way back from our anniversary trip to Hawaii over Thanksgiving. We paid $18 a night... and it was fine.

In fact, we now have a three night stay offer from them to come back.

Again, with things as they are, I don't understand why even the most casual visitors would not take advantage of super low rates at Wynn/Encore. Any talk of staying at third rate hotels in this environment is just inexplicable.

...And I'm sorry that you think of the Mirage, Monte Carlo, Ceasars, Paris, and the others as Third rate. You can keep your nose as high as you want as this third worlders $$$ are as good as yours.

I AGREE! ... If my wife reads this after the fabulous stay we had at Paris in a wonderful room for our anniversary a couple of weeks ago she'll accuse me of being a cheapskate! :D

I find the Wynn to be a little too snobish and up-itself for my liking, ever since they told us we couldn't come in with a stroller unless we were guests at the hotel....and yes this DID ACTUALLY HAPPEN, we were turned away at the entrance on a busy night.

ever since they told us we couldn't come in with a stroller unless we were guests at the hotel....and yes this DID ACTUALLY HAPPEN, we were turned away at the entrance on a busy night.

This dates back to Bellagio days. IIRC, that was the first property to institute this rule. Rumor has it, that Steve Wynn who has retinitis pigmentosa tripped over a stroller once (not sure @ which property), and got the idea from that experience. Though, truth be told, one could also trip over a stroller of a hotel guest. :rolleyes:

I "kind of" agree with the sentiment, as it prevents an excessive number of "touristy families" from wandering around and gawking (as well as impeding the flow of people traffic). I'm also guessing, that the casino isn't getting a lot of "action" from the non-hotel/restaurant stroller traffic.

Though, I would like to stay very far away from the "kids/no kids" Vegas debate, as that's as bad (if not worse) than the "kids/no kids" F/J class debate. ;):D

I'm also guessing, that the casino isn't getting a lot of "action" from the non-hotel/restaurant stroller traffic.

That's where they would be wrong. My wife shops with the kids while I go and play craps.

Though, I would like to stay very far away from the "kids/no kids" Vegas debate, as that's as bad (if not worse) than the "kids/no kids" F/J class debate. ;):D

Absolutely agree, I certainly don't want to get into that one either :D:D

That's where they would be wrong. My wife shops with the kids while I go and play craps.

What kind of father are you?

Didn't you know.... The wife shops,
while the dad goes to play dice with the kids...... sheesh... :D:D Didn't you know you have to break them in young. ;);)

In all honesty, I cannot understand why anyone would pay more than $40 or $50 for a room in Vegas.

Service, better/larger bathroom, nicer toiletries, whirlpool tub, dual sinks, faster room service, nicer HD TV for sports...

I could go on, but firstly I think you get my point, and secondly I think you can probably understand why some people pay more but were more likely making the point that $50 can get you a very nice room in Vegas. Both are true.

If I'm going with my brother and the entire weekend is going to be a booze-fueled haze with little or no sleep or time spent in the room, then I am of course going to stay in the comped Flamingo room where they are more tolerant and better-equipped to handle drunk a-h's like my brother and I. Especially if they throw in an upgrade to a Go Suite which I think is best bang-for-your-buck in Vegas as far as rooms go.

However, if I'm taking my significant other, dining at L'Atelier/Picasso etc, going to shows, and spending a fair amount of time relaxing in the room together, then I'm going to pony up more for a higher-class experience. Nothing promotes a happy relationship like dual sinks, twice daily chocolate and turndown, etc.

There's a time for both, and a price for both; and that price is much lower in Vegas than any other city. (A room comparable to a Go Suite in SF would be >$350/nt).

And as a 24-y.o. SINK, you don't want my opinion on the stroller topic.

What kind of father are you?

Didn't you know.... The wife shops,
while the dad goes to play dice with the kids...... sheesh... :D:D Didn't you know you have to break them in young. ;);)

...and if I win the kids get to eat that night! :D:D

My daughter LOVES playing craps on the layout we have at home. It's really funny to hear a 6 year shout "gimme a yo" while throwing a chip at you.

I know...it's very wrong, but I don't care.

My daughter LOVES playing craps on the layout we have at home. It's really funny to hear a 6 year shout "gimme a yo" while throwing a chip at you.

I know...it's very wrong, but I don't care.

Doing your part to ensure Vegas won't still be hurting in the 2020's ... ;)

One day last week I got 3 offers from PH for a variety of weekends in June and July. 3 free nights + show tickets + $200 Visa gift card or Macy's gift card or portable DVD player.

Times must be tough.

One day last week I got 3 offers from PH for a variety of weekends in June and July. 3 free nights + show tickets + $200 Visa gift card or Macy's gift card or portable DVD player.

Times must be tough.

Yep, the PH offers are basically thrown at anyone who has had any gaming activity.

Yep, the PH offers are basically thrown at anyone who has had any gaming activity.

Wish these offers had been thrown my way - I got my P.Ho card and gamed there in January.

just got back from 4 nites at palazzo w/my 77 yo mom. 4 nites comped; 2 tix to phantom (center isle 4th row from stage - each tix worth $160+tax); and $50 slot credit/table game match. the whole stay would have cost me over $1K but didn't cost me a dime.

the only loss incurred was $500 at the crazy 4 table.

and i really think vegas is hurting otherwise why would palazzo continues to comp me with free nites (including weekend); free tix to shows & dinners; etc. just to get me to spend $ there?

since they keep enticing me with comps, i'm going to take advantage and go again in late july. :D

I was in town last week for a 2 night stay. Had some surgery done
in Summerlin so stayed at the Southcoast. You cant beat the price.
Like $ 76.00 a night total for a nice new room with good service.
Facing the Golf Course and great views of the sunset. Just a couple blocks
from my outpatient surgery.

I went in the Palazzo and the Encore both on Wed and Friday afternoon.
IT WAS DEAD. Just dealers standing at tables. We had lunch at the Gabi
restaurant outside at Paris on Friday. The place was packed. 20 Minute wait.

Seems like the lower end is surviving. But the high end has got its wings clipped hard. And all those new projects going up on the strip?
Seems like maybe Vegas has finally saturated beyond its demand.

palazzo is dead everyday (even in the evening) until friday around 2-3p.m. even then several tables were empty and dealers were staring around wishing someone would sit down at their table.

btw, the crazy 4 table i sat at, there were only 4 of us playing and it was $10 min. bet. once the table was filled up, they change limit to $15 after about 20 minutes.

but what was so funny was, as soon as they changed the limit to $15, 3 people left the table (including me). i just didn't pay attention if they change the limit back down to $10 or not. but there were only 1 or 2 people at that table when i checked back a couple of times.

i like to gamble at paris but their standard room is too small for me. stayed there once and that's was it. don't know about them being lower end, but if room is over $100/nite, i don't considered it a lower end hotel.

as soon as they changed the limit to $15, 3 people left the table (including me). i just didn't pay attention if they change the limit back down to $10 or not.

Most places "grandfather you in" so that you can continue betting at the lower limit.
I think the Wynn keeps me around because I don't mind gambling at an empty table, so I'll hop on an empty roulette table with a low minimum, and then more people will show up and they'll up the min to $25, but allow me to continue betting $15 or whatever the previous limit was.

Most places "grandfather you in" so that you can continue betting at the lower limit.
I think the Wynn keeps me around because I don't mind gambling at an empty table, so I'll hop on an empty roulette table with a low minimum, and then more people will show up and they'll up the min to $25, but allow me to continue betting $15 or whatever the previous limit was.i thought palazzo would grandfather us in 2, but they didn't. playing $45/hand instead of $30/hand makes me loose faster ;). that's why i walked off to a $10 bj table.:p

i thought palazzo would grandfather us in 2, but they didn't. playing $45/hand instead of $30/hand makes me loose faster ;). that's why i walked off to a $10 bj table.:p

Shocking. I'd never previously heard of a property that didn't grandfather.

Shocking. I'd never previously heard of a property that didn't grandfather.

It's become very common with Harrah's properties. (though, not always consistently). But, especially common in Atlantic City.

I enjoy $25 big baccarat @ Bally's AC, and they will never grandfather. Sort of annoying, as my last session a few weeks ago I was spreading $25 to $300 (rarely putting out a $25 wager) and tipping the dealers.

I left when they put up the $50 minimum sign after a few shoes. More of a principal thing. So, I departed a table that seats 14, with only 5 players -- my rating was an average bet $125 for 3+ hours... all because, they won't let me drop a few bets to $25 if I desire.... Absolutely brilliant! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wish these offers had been thrown my way - I got my P.Ho card and gamed there in January.

Ditto. I played a couple thousand through slots there a month ago and haven't heard a peep from them. Headed back this weekend too.

Ditto. I played a couple thousand through slots there a month ago and haven't heard a peep from them. Headed back this weekend too.make sure you go to venetian/palazzo and sign up for the club grazie card. they give really good comps just for signing up as new club member.

One day last week I got 3 offers from PH for a variety of weekends in June and July. 3 free nights + show tickets + $200 Visa gift card or Macy's gift card or portable DVD player.

Times must be tough.

Received another two offers from them today (Make it 5 in the last week).

3 free nights+ show tickets + $200 Neiman Marcus gift card or selection of electronics.

Yet I tried to make a booking for another time and had to beg to get 3 nights comped :rolleyes:

Went for 4 nights to THEhotel and spend much time gambling in Excalibur but I visited near every casino and yes Vegas is definately hurting a lot...

Tim, one of the bartenders of Excalibur (where I played videopoker a lot) told me that it was very quiet, a lot of floor staff (waitresses) were laid off so it was hard to get a drink on the floor.

While playing at maximum bet on the pokergame every single drink was comped during my stay there. I gave Tim a 20 USD tip and he was very gratefull for it and told me that people were only tipping 1 or 2 USD. I actually gave him and 2 other bartenders who I talked to when playing a couple of hundred dollars in tips during my stay. This gave me not only a god service but also quality drinks from the expensive bottles behind the counter :cool: Way better then the stuff that's coming out of the taps... Never saw gin coming out of a tap, but hey in Vegas it can happen...

Also the taxidrivers which I gave mostly about 20 to 30 USD tip for a 10 to 20 USD fare were very gratefull and told me that it was very very slow at this moment...

And indeed, I was in Vegas back in October 2006 and back then the Las Vegas Strip was full with cars wile the boardwalks were crowded with people. At this time everything was empty... The streets were empty, the walks were empty, the casino's were empty... Even the beach in Mandalay Bay seemed rather empty to me...


So yes, I think Vegas is hurting indeed...



To illustrate:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/3613673078_e034544c0e_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3340/3613673280_4a161cc6fc_o.jpg


View from my room to the pool area, actually the most crowded time during my stay...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/3612854487_79a1024f2e_o.jpg

Re: OP. Am going in a week, so I'll know more, but the prevalence of hotel deals would seem a leading indicator of hurt.

I think the acid test, though, is in any loosening of house rules on things like blackjack. There has been a slow trend toward 6:5 naturals, 6-deck shoes, or other play variations that give the house 0.3% here, 0.2% there, etc. Loss of the old Jackie Gaughan places was a real blow.

Locals are generally wise to all of it. If a place is having to roll back rule variations or drop table minimums to appeal to them again, it's a sign.

It's become very common with Harrah's properties. (though, not always consistently).

The only places I've gamed in LAS with no desire to grandfather have been Harrah's properties.

It's become very common with Harrah's properties.

I've been at Harrah's tables in LV a couple of times recently and been given 30-minute notice that the minimum would increase. No grandfathering, but you have a half-hour to figure out which non-Harrah's property you'd rather play at anyway. :D

One day last week I got 3 offers from PH for a variety of weekends in June and July. 3 free nights + show tickets + $200 Visa gift card or Macy's gift card or portable DVD player.

Times must be tough.

I played craps at PH in April for about 15minutes and lost about $300.
In the mail today I have an offer for 2 nts, plus peepshow tix, $75 promo chips, 2 spa passes and 2 meals at the buffet ...all for 15 mins action!

Plus, I got 2 nts at Monte Carlo, plus $50 chips and $30 MC money (??) and I haven't played there for at least 2 years.

Quote of the week from Phil Ruffin, new owner of TI:

“We’re getting all kinds of business from the Venetian, the Wynn, the Mirage, from people who don’t want to pay $15 for orange juice.”

Frankly the Wynn/Venetian/Palazzo/Encore are nice hotels, but I'm sick and tired of having to make grocery runs to Vons for sodas and snacks, and having to leave the property I'm staying at for non-insulting-to-the-intelligence food prices. At least Venetian has a food court.

Come to think of it, I visit LAS far less than I used to, so why am I complaining?

Quote of the week from Phil Ruffin, new owner of TI:

Frankly the Wynn/Venetian/Palazzo/Encore are nice hotels, but I'm sick and tired of having to make grocery runs to Vons for sodas and snacks, and having to leave the property I'm staying at for non-insulting-to-the-intelligence food prices. At least Venetian has a food court.

Come to think of it, I visit LAS far less than I used to, so why am I complaining?

One of the reasons I really enjoy PH. The ABC stores in the mall help keep down the cost for little things like sodas and the odd beer here and there. Wish they had a food court though.

I adore the ABC stores, they have a great selection of goodies.

Most places "grandfather you in" so that you can continue betting at the lower limit.
I think the Wynn keeps me around because I don't mind gambling at an empty table, so I'll hop on an empty roulette table with a low minimum, and then more people will show up and they'll up the min to $25, but allow me to continue betting $15 or whatever the previous limit was.


Yeah, I was playing at one of Encore pool tables last week, and minimums went from $15 to $25 to $100 during the course of about 2 hours. The Pit Boss made a point each time the mins went up of coming over and saying IK you can play what ever you want. The other guys at the table were all playing yellow chips, so I don't think they cared what the minimums were.

If I were at a Harrah's property and they told me the minimums were going up and I would not be grandfathered, I would color up right then and be out the door in about 2 minutes out of principal if nothing else.

Quote of the week from Phil Ruffin, new owner of TI:

“We’re getting all kinds of business from the Venetian, the Wynn, the Mirage, from people who don’t want to pay $15 for orange juice.”

Frankly the Wynn/Venetian/Palazzo/Encore are nice hotels, but I'm sick and tired of having to make grocery runs to Vons for sodas and snacks, and having to leave the property I'm staying at for non-insulting-to-the-intelligence food prices. At least Venetian has a food court.

Come to think of it, I visit LAS far less than I used to, so why am I complaining?

The problem is that all the high-end casinos are still using the same consumable and service pricing schemes as if they're charging $500 for a basic room... and they're not. $4 for a bottle of Coke is much less an issue to a guest who is paying $500/night than it is to a guest (and, in many cases, even that same guest) paying $129/night or less.

That said, I've always been shocked that at Bellagio, room service sodas are more than double the cost per volume as the minibar. :eek:

My daughter LOVES playing craps on the layout we have at home. It's really funny to hear a 6 year shout "gimme a yo" while throwing a chip at you.

I know...it's very wrong, but I don't care.It's very wrong ... you need to teach her not to make those sucker bets in the middle like the yo, what kind of father are you?!? :p

I gave Tim a 20 USD tip and he was very gratefull for it and told me that people were only tipping 1 or 2 USD.$20 USD is a pretty generous tip for a bartender, though it depends on how many you had of course. I think I'm a pretty generous tipper in general and I believe $1/drink is fine and if I get exceptional service then it's $2/drink. I've seen plenty of folks not even tip $1/drink.

[QUOTE=Beckles;11930267]It's very wrong ... you need to teach her not to make those sucker bets in the middle like the yo, what kind of father are you?!? :pQUOTE]

I know, I know ....but you try telling a 6 yr old that! :rolleyes:

$20 USD is a pretty generous tip for a bartender, though it depends on how many you had of course. I think I'm a pretty generous tipper in general and I believe $1/drink is fine and if I get exceptional service then it's $2/drink. I've seen plenty of folks not even tip $1/drink.

Hey,

I'm from Europe, i'm not used to tipping. Everything is inluded in the EU (tax, gratuity, service,...). The only time I give a tip is after a delicious meal in a restaurant with a good service, but that's mostly about 5 to 10 EUR.

So it's only in the US / Canada where you have to do this and since i'm not used to I give always a good tip just to be sure.

I think the bartender got about 40 to 60 USD each night. For, let's think, about 6 to 10 drinks a night (mostly non alcohol).

I'll probably gave to much but hey, I don't mind. I had a very good time in Vegas, even though I lost some money, and when I'm enjoying myself I don't mind giving good tips, even when losing during play. It's all about the fun ;)

Looks like things aren't getting any better.

Just got an email offer from MGM for use at any of their Vegas properties as many times as you want through Oct. 1.

3 free nights
$150 in chips
Plus a dining and show throw in as well.

Never got such a generous offer from MGM like this before. Especially including Bellagio.

(Thankfully I checked my spam folder before I emptied it)

Hey,

I'm from Europe, i'm not used to tipping. Everything is inluded in the EU (tax, gratuity, service,...). The only time I give a tip is after a delicious meal in a restaurant with a good service, but that's mostly about 5 to 10 EUR.

So it's only in the US / Canada where you have to do this and since i'm not used to I give always a good tip just to be sure.

I think the bartender got about 40 to 60 USD each night. For, let's think, about 6 to 10 drinks a night (mostly non alcohol).

I'll probably gave to much but hey, I don't mind. I had a very good time in Vegas, even though I lost some money, and when I'm enjoying myself I don't mind giving good tips, even when losing during play. It's all about the fun ;)In the movie My Blue Heavan Steven Martin says "It's not tipping I believe in, but over-tipping." ;)

Looks like things aren't getting any better.

Just got an email offer from MGM for use at any of their Vegas properties as many times as you want through Oct. 1.

3 free nights
$150 in chips
Plus a dining and show throw in as well.

Never got such a generous offer from MGM like this before. Especially including Bellagio.

(Thankfully I checked my spam folder before I emptied it)

Wow. Can I ask what kind of play you normally give them?

Mike

Looks like things aren't getting any better.

Just got an email offer from MGM for use at any of their Vegas properties as many times as you want through Oct. 1.

3 free nights
$150 in chips
Plus a dining and show throw in as well.

Never got such a generous offer from MGM like this before. Especially including Bellagio.

(Thankfully I checked my spam folder before I emptied it)

Damn, that's nice... :)

I had also an offer for a couple of nights at THEhotel but when I called to book this week they seem to have vanished. I have to admit the offer was for july/august but I hoped it would work out for December also. But it didn't...

Maybe it has to do something with the rodeo that is taking place in the weekend I'll be staying (10-15dec)... But at least I got a decent players rate :)

Wow. Can I ask what kind of play you normally give them?

Mike

Not a crazy amount and my last trip I barely gambled at any MGM properties.

Usually I don't qualify for anything in addition to the room comp which I get in advance.

Vegas is hurting but definately still turning a profit.

I was comped 4 nights and $280 in show tickets (Blue Man Group) at the Venetian for $109/ 9.5 hours at the craps tables (actualy playtime about 3 hours and the average on table was ussually between 105 and 165 mostly on the low end). I also did about 9500 coin in on slots. This was my first time to this hotel and I had no previous play history there. The hotel was far from packed on the weekend getaway but it was definately crowded. Its just nice to be appreciated for a change instead of being another fly on the wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbstone
Quote of the week from Phil Ruffin, new owner of TI:

Frankly the Wynn/Venetian/Palazzo/Encore are nice hotels, but I'm sick and tired of having to make grocery runs to Vons for sodas and snacks, and having to leave the property I'm staying at for non-insulting-to-the-intelligence food prices. At least Venetian has a food court.

Come to think of it, I visit LAS far less than I used to, so why am I complaining?

One of the reasons I really enjoy PH. The ABC stores in the mall help keep down the cost for little things like sodas and the odd beer here and there. Wish they had a food court though.

I found that the Venetian had a Walgreens store situated between their two properties. You actually have to take an escalator down and be outside for twoseconds but it was very convenient. They also have a very wide veriety of food offerings including two food courts (one in the main casino and one in the shops area), my wife and I ate dinner at the Grand Lux Cafe which is just off of both of their large casinos and when the bill arrived for less than $40 I nearly fainted becouse the food was pretty good for that price.

The hotel was far from packed on the weekend getaway but it was definately crowded.

Were you there just this past weekend? The Venetian had a huge turnout for the Wheel of Fortune Slot Tournament and show taping that ran from Thursday through Monday.

my wife and I ate dinner at the Grand Lux Cafe which is just off of both of their large casinos and when the bill arrived for less than $40 I nearly fainted becouse the food was pretty good for that price.

The Cheesecake Factory by any other name. ;)

But you're right, it's not bad at all.

Mike

Las Vegas Sands loss widens on widespread weakness (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/las-vegas-sands-loss-widens-on-widespread-weakness-2009-07-30?siteid=yahoomy)

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- Cost cuts couldn't keep Las Vegas Sands out of the red as the gambling giant on Thursday reported a sharply wider loss on across the board declines in every meaningful industry metric.

Sands said that it lost $175.9 million, or 34 cents a share, vs. a loss of $8.8 million, or 2 cents a share, in the year-ago period. Excluding one-time items, the company would have reported a profit of $8.8 million, or 1 cent a share. Revenue for the casino operator fell to $1.14 billion from $1.18 billion in the year-ago period.

The average estimate of analysts polled by FactSet Research, which typically excludes items, had been for Sands to break even on revenue of $1.1 billion.

In Las Vegas, the company's gambling revenue fell almost 6% to $119.1 million while room revenue plummeted almost 21% to 112.8 million. The company also experienced double-digit declines in both average daily room rate (ADR) and revenue-per-available room (RevPAR) at its Venetian and Palazzo resorts.

At its Venetian Macau, casino revenue slumped almost 9% to $380 million while room revenue slipped more than 17% to $38.5 million. Occupancy was down to 76.2% form 80.2% and ADR and RevPAR were down by double digits. Results were slightly better at Sands Macau, with the drops not as precipitous.

Las Vegas has been hit especially hard by the economic downturn as visitor traffic falls and those that do come to Sin City stay for shorter periods and spend less. And, at the same time, while some planned projects have been scaled back or canceled altogether, thousands of new rooms will have come on line by the end of the year, adding to an oversupply and pushing rates down even further.

Meanwhile, Macau has also been hampered by global economic woes and new visa restrictions that have held down the number of mainland Chinese who can visit the gambling haven.

"While our operating results reflect the challenging economic environment, we remain pleased that our properties in both Las Vegas and Macau continue to generate solid cash flow," said Sheldon Adelson, chairman and chief executive, in the earnings report.

He added that the company made "marked progress" on three major goals during the quarter, including a $500 million cost-cutting program and the effort to complete its Marina Bay Sands development in Singapore "in a timely and cost efficient manner."

Adelson noted that the heavily-leveraged company, teetering on the brink of insolvency at one point last year, will "continue to consider and evaluate our business strategy and future plans relating to our operations in Macau, and may seek to access public or private capital markets to raise financing, which may include the sale of a minority stake in those operations."

quote:
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..........I gave Tim a 20 USD tip and he was very gratefull for it and told me that people were only tipping 1 or 2 USD. I actually gave him and 2 other bartenders who I talked to when playing a couple of hundred dollars in tips during my stay. This gave me not only a god service but also quality drinks from the expensive bottles behind the counter Way better then the stuff that's coming out of the taps... Never saw gin coming out of a tap, but hey in Vegas it can happen... Also the taxidrivers which I gave mostly about 20 to 30 USD tip for a 10 to 20 USD fare were very gratefull.........
.................................................. .................................................. .

Maybe the bolding explains it all. Never-the-less you apparently give out more in daily tips than I receive in daily income so lemmee know if you ever need a chauffeur driven car on Maui (Acura) or near Philadelphia (Lexus).

MisterNice

Looks like things aren't getting any better.

Just got an email offer from MGM for use at any of their Vegas properties as many times as you want through Oct. 1.

3 free nights
$150 in chips
Plus a dining and show throw in as well.

Never got such a generous offer from MGM like this before. Especially including Bellagio.

(Thankfully I checked my spam folder before I emptied it)

I got a similar e-mail, although I was offered $1125 in promotional chips per stay. So it looks like this could vary based on play history. Also, I will say that my impression was that this is a "once per property" offer although certainly I may be wrong on that (I'll give one of the properties a call sometime to try to verify).

Either way, I agree that this is pretty generous, as I've never gotten such an unsolicited offer. The most in promo chips I ever got before was ~$500, and it certainly wasn't an open offer to try out as many properties as I wanted. I may try a few of them out, as I've pretty much only stayed at Bellagio as far as MGM-Mirage properties go.

MGM definitely has some good targeted summer offers based on prior play/other criteria. Here's an example:

http://www.mgmmirage.com/offers/2009/07_summer_offer/landing_t1.html

There are 10 tiers of offers and this is the highest tier. If you want to see the other levels, change the number after the "t" at the end of the web address. Note that I'm just posting this for reference - you can't get these offers unless they are coded to your player's club account.

MGM definitely has some good targeted summer offers based on prior play/other criteria. Here's an example:

http://www.mgmmirage.com/offers/2009/07_summer_offer/landing_t1.html

There are 10 tiers of offers and this is the highest tier. If you want to see the other levels, change the number after the "t" at the end of the web address. Note that I'm just posting this for reference - you can't get these offers unless they are coded to your player's club account.

Thanks for the link and it sure beats anything I received........and I thought my offers were quite nice.

MisterNice

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a high-roller in the least, and I've given Sahara a total of about $120 in buy-in play at table games (e.g. "I only use the coupons in the LVA book"):

I just received three nights, a slot tournament entry, $10 in free play each day, and a free buffet. I'll make up for staying at the Sahara by getting a better rental car to drive where I actually gamble.

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a high-roller in the least, and I've given Sahara a total of about $120 in buy-in play at table games (e.g. "I only use the coupons in the LVA book"):

I just received three nights, a slot tournament entry, $10 in free play each day, and a free buffet. I'll make up for staying at the Sahara by getting a better rental car to drive where I actually gamble.

(a) You are @ Sahara
(b) a $120 buy-in is probably $100 more than 90% of the folks gambling @ Sahara. :p:p

But, in all seriousness, the buy-in really isn't a great determiner of anything.

One could buy-in for $120, get lucky, and play $10 to $50 blackjack for 5 hours. I'd say, if you spend at least a solid 1+ hours @ the tables @ Sahara, with an average bet of more than $10 --- marketing is looking to get you to return. And, that's exactly why they send out these fishing offers.

Also, Sahara is now the home of $1 blackjack (albeit with horrible rules that include even money pay-outs for snappers). This gives you an idea of how anxious they are for ANY action. ;)

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a high-roller in the least, and I've given Sahara a total of about $120 in buy-in play at table games (e.g. "I only use the coupons in the LVA book"):

I just received three nights, a slot tournament entry, $10 in free play each day, and a free buffet. I'll make up for staying at the Sahara by getting a better rental car to drive where I actually gamble.

Aw, crap, I didn't even use my Sahara coupon this year and I'm not getting back to Las Vegas.

For that matter, if anyone wants the rest of the coupons in my book (I only used a few.), just post a reply to this and if I can find it, I'll mail it to you.

Mike

Aw, crap, I didn't even use my Sahara coupon this year and I'm not getting back to Las Vegas.

For that matter, if anyone wants the rest of the coupons in my book (I only used a few.), just post a reply to this and if I can find it, I'll mail it to you.

Mike

I'd be very interested, mikeef! Going to LAS in mid-September.....

One could buy-in for $120, get lucky, and play $10 to $50 blackjack for 5 hours. I'd say, if you spend at least a solid 1+ hours @ the tables @ Sahara, with an average bet of more than $10 --- marketing is looking to get you to return. And, that's exactly why they send out these fishing offers.

Marketing and the pit bosses need to recognize that I play my blue non-negotiable chips until they've turned red and immediately leave ;) This trip, I'll have my ACG.

Marketing and the pit bosses need to recognize that I play my blue non-negotiable chips until they've turned red and immediately leave ;) This trip, I'll have my ACG.

You really are giving them too much credit for the possibility of intelligent reasoning, add the fact that it's Sahara.... well, you get the point.... :p:p

Yes, but the Sahara will do for helping me on my consistent quest to match expenditures during LAS trips - including airfare, hotel, transport, meals - with cash brought home from the trip. Besides, if I give the counter rep a $20, they might give me a room upgrade and an ownership stake (I'm so sorry, I got them confused with Riviera Holdings Corporation).

so, is vegas gonna be dead until nye?

so, is vegas gonna be dead until nye?

The loss of vacationing families will more than be made up for by the stream of students attending SoCal universities :)

The loss of vacationing families will more than be made up for by the stream of students attending SoCal universities :)
that's just one school. but i was hoping there will be sweet hotel deals so i can bring my hubby back there for his bd on oct. 1st.:D

I see Time has a cover story on Vegas. Didn't read it however.

Hopefully Vegas slowly climbs back. Might be off-topic, but I wonder if the new non-stop daily flight by BA from Heathrow (and it's massive connections) will help.

that's just one school. but i was hoping there will be sweet hotel deals so i can bring my hubby back there for his bd on oct. 1st.:D

AA.com has DFW-LAS on 10/1 is $99 ow ...rtn available on the Saturday for $99 :)
Now find that sweet hotel deal for hubby.

AA.com has DFW-LAS on 10/1 is $99 ow ...rtn available on the Saturday for $99 :)
Now find that sweet hotel deal for hubby.got air covered (RRs w/cp) already. just need palazzo/venetian comp me the nites :D

got air covered (RRs w/cp) already. just need palazzo/venetian comp me the nites :DNothing waiting for you in your club grazie account? Is your hubby a member?

Nothing waiting for you in your club grazie account? Is your hubby a member?
only offer is discounted venezia for $69.99/nite sun-thurs only. i'm sure in a couple weeks, there will be more offers. and yes, he's a member 2 w/same offers as i right now.

Well, for a Thursday it's quite busy in terms of foot traffic. Streets are pretty busy but the tables are fairly empty in Venetian/Palazzo. Strip traffic southbound is a parking lot as I see from my room.

They have a slightly upgraded offer around your bday (judging by what I got, it's not too different the normal offers they send me).

So maybe there will be something good posted for your hubby very soon!

that's just one school. but i was hoping there will be sweet hotel deals so i can bring my hubby back there for his bd on oct. 1st.:D

Err... there are about a half dozen college campuses in SoCal that each have >20,000 students, plus more in the 10,000-20,000 range. I don't know if marauding carloads of college students driving in from SoCal makes a significant Las Vegas demographic, but the sheer numbers are there for potential impact.

Err... there are about a half dozen college campuses in SoCal that each have >20,000 students, plus more in the 10,000-20,000 range. I don't know if marauding carloads of college students driving in from SoCal makes a significant Las Vegas demographic, but the sheer numbers are there for potential impact.A lot of those students are quite happy to stay local and play poker.

It was a great deal.

Now you need to sign up at the player's booth. They give you coupons for staying at the hotel, but before all you had to do was show them your old room card, and they rarely even asked for your room number (The hotel staff was more than happy to give you lots of coupons, and when I checked in, the lady even hinted that many people kept coming back for more coupons).

Warning: Sahara, like the Stratosphere and Four Queens, has some dealers who preferentially shuffle. They also have some nice ones though.

A lot of those students are quite happy to stay local and play poker.
and i believe cali has a lot of casinos for the college crowds. no need to drive 4-5 hours to vegas to play poker.

mitchell, i'm still trying to understand what you are talking about?

palazzo/venetians have been comping me and hubby up to 4nites including table match/slot credits ($50+) and show tickets like crazy. we've taken advantage of that by staying at palazzo several weekends already. but they haven't got but 1 offer coming up which discounted venezia (too far to walk to casinos) suite sun-thurs for $70/nite.

mitchell, i'm still trying to understand what you are talking about?


In blackjack, if you are c***ting, you may notice dealers who shuffle the deck when it is good for players (e.g. Deal once for 5 people, then shuffle instead of dealing 2 hands if it looks good for players, but go ahead & deal if it's good for the casino).

Some places resort to a "shuffle every hand" for 4-6 players if they feel an advantage player is playing.

Search google for blackjack and "penetration". http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.com/article/how-important-is-penetration-in-blackjack?-5662 http://www.blackjackincolor.com/penetration3.htm

A lot of those students are quite happy to stay local and play poker.

They would be mainly Seniors wouldn't they

It was a great deal.Warning: Sahara, like the Stratosphere and Four Queens, has some dealers who preferentially shuffle. They also have some nice ones though.

mitchell, i'm still trying to understand what you are talking about?

In blackjack, if you are c***ting, you may notice dealers who shuffle the deck when it is good for players (e.g. Deal once for 5 people, then shuffle instead of dealing 2 hands if it looks good for players, but go ahead & deal if it's good for the casino).

Some places resort to a "shuffle every hand" for 4-6 players if they feel an advantage player is playing.

Mitchell,
no disrespect, but you have a rather active imagination if you really believe that Sahara et al are preferential shuffling you on low limit games. "Maybe" if things are running strong and you push out a $500 bet (can you even do that at the majority of tables at Sahara?); they just probably have crap penetration to begin with. Do they even have decent 1-deck/2-deck pitch games @ Sahara?

If you were really that much of a 'risk' to Sahara et al, they'd just 86 your arse. :D

They would be mainly Seniors wouldn't theyI thought you could play at 18 in CA card rooms, but the more I Google it, the less sure I am.

OTOH, the minimum age for a really good fake ID is about 16 these days. :D :D :D

palazzo/venetians have been comping me and hubby up to 4nites including table match/slot credits ($50+) and show tickets like crazy. we've taken advantage of that by staying at palazzo several weekends already. but they haven't got but 1 offer coming up which discounted venezia (too far to walk to casinos) suite sun-thurs for $70/nite.Sounds like you and I get very similar offers, so we probably play about the same amount. The only difference is for me, most of my offers have been during the week. I think there's maybe one offer per month for the weekends.

If your offers have stopped, perhaps it's because they feel your play during that time didn't match your "historical level"? Or maybe they'll only allow you to take advantage of a certain # of offers per year (or a certain $ amount)?

I don't know if they have any magical cutoff number, just trying to think of reasons why you might not be getting offers anymore.

I thought you could play at 18 in CA card rooms, but the more I Google it, the less sure I am.

OTOH, the minimum age for a really good fake ID is about 16 these days. :D :D :D

Thinking of doing a little road trip "a la Stephen Fry" from Chicago to Denver early next year to add a few more US States to my Map via Mt. Rushmore and zigzag thru those northern States.

Now when will the thaw have taken place March or April?? We are in winter here and temps yesterday were 18C to 28c. Maybe there is something to this global warming.