WestJet "Passenger Perks" - Amd I thought AC's fees were bad...

Took some employees to Montego Bay for a sales meeting. Our return flgiht on Skyservice was delayed by 3 1/2 hours. as a result, one couple missed connections to Fredericton on AC and another couple missed connections to Edmonton.

Phoned AC to re-book them on the later flights, which they did at a cost of $300. Phoned WJ to re-book and WJ said the later flight was full (didn't offer to let them stand by) and the "no show re-accomodation fee" for the two was $600. :eek::mad:

Hey Lev,

Maybe I can clarify a few points for you.

Once the flight is full, we don't oversell, so there's nothing that can be done about that :-(

You can travel standby if you miss the flight and present yourself at the airport same day. There is a fee of $45. Is it for today? I hope not - Sundays are almost always booked solid so standby can mean long waits.

As for changing to a confirmed seat - the change fee is an industry leading $50 plus the difference in the fare. Unfortunately, if you got a sale fare, and all that is left is Y fares, there will be quite a substantial sum.

Hope that clarifies everything for you!

All the best getting home!

Hey Lev,

Maybe I can clarify a few points for you.

Once the flight is full, we don't oversell, so there's nothing that can be done about that :-(

You can travel standby if you miss the flight and present yourself at the airport same day. There is a fee of $45. Is it for today? I hope not - Sundays are almost always booked solid so standby can mean long waits.

As for changing to a confirmed seat - the change fee is an industry leading $50 plus the difference in the fare. Unfortunately, if you got a sale fare, and all that is left is Y fares, there will be quite a substantial sum.

Hope that clarifies everything for you!

All the best getting home!

Actually, the industry leader is Southwest airlines. No fee is charged. And on many an occasion, there is no fare differential charge. THAT is leadership.

An aside: I am a frequent Westjet flyer, but the change fees for everything have really gotten to me. In one particular incident, everyone in CS I talked to refused to waive the change fee for a change I wanted to do an hour after their cut off for free changes. Sure, they had every right to charge me. But the fact they wouldn't be willing to cut me some slack really irritated me after I had been invested so much and been so loyal to WJ over the years. I have always told people to fly WJ over the years, but I have not been so evangelistic about it since. It didn't help that my formal complaint was never properly addressed.

Perhaps they will start to treat their frequent flyers a little better when they introduce their own loyalty program. I hope.

This is an unfortunate pitfall of using 2 different airlines on 2 separate tickets involving an intermediary connecting point to get to and from a destination, usually to save a few dollars.

If they had used WS or AC all the way, it would not have been an issue. They gambled, and they lost, just like at the casino.

If they have bought travel insurance, they may be able to claim reimbursement although I do not know if Skyservice, as a chartered carrier, qualifies.

I thought the official Westjet and AC rule was that a no-show was a forfeit of the ticket (except for some higher-end AC fare classes possibly); so any credit for the old ticket is a bonus.

I thought the official Westjet and AC rule was that a no-show was a forfeit of the ticket (except for some higher-end AC fare classes possibly); so any credit for the old ticket is a bonus.

I wonder if in the case of the OP the $300 is actually the $150 same-day change fee for a Tango fare where there is no fare difference charged regardless of fare class. A Tango Plus fare would have only been $50 per passenger. For day of travel changes, AC most of the time cannot be beat Westjet for cost, except in the odd case that lowest seat sale fares are still available, so it isn't entirely true to state that WJ is a leader in low change fees--depends on when you do the change. Both airlines have their pluses and minuses in this regard.

I wonder if in the case of the OP the $300 is actually the $150 same-day change fee for a Tango fare where there is no fare difference charged regardless of fare class.

Correct.

Once the flight is full, we don't oversell, so there's nothing that can be done about that :-(

You can travel standby if you miss the flight and present yourself at the airport same day. There is a fee of $45.
Even though they called from the arrivals area of T3 in YYZ, they were not offered the opportunity to stand by. It was still ~1 1/2 hours prior to the later flight's departure. They were told by the call centre that the 9:00 departure was full, but we can put you on a flight tomorrow morning (Sunday)


As for changing to a confirmed seat - the change fee is an industry leading $50 plus the difference in the fare. Unfortunately, if you got a sale fare, and all that is left is Y fares, there will be quite a substantial sum.

The original fare was $817.25 per person - not exactly a "seat sale"! Here is what was charged for each person:
"Fee - No Show Reacomm: 245.00"
"Fee - NS Exception: 40.00"
Plus GST of course

I guess those savings for the cheap flight south didn't really materailize, eh? Next time stick to an all Air Canada or all WestJet itineraries next time!!

If they'd phoned from WJ's toll free number from the airport in Jamaica, could the entire episode could have been avoided?

I'm sure WJ would have told them the connecting flight was full but they could always standby in case someone didn't show up. As all seats are bought and paid for, with WJ having 100% of the cash in the bank before the airplane leaves the gate, there's no reason to overbook and I was once told that WJ had less than a 1% no show rate.

At that point, they'd have paid the fare differential which is pretty standard for any airline I've any flown on with a discount ticket. If that didn't work, I think a credit file would be issued for pretty close to the full amount of the ticket and they could do what they want!

I missed a Canucks hockey game once with $200 tickets. I don't think they would have given me tickets to the next nights game because of my dumb ... mistake!! Even if it wasn't my mistake, it wasn't the Canuck's fault I missed the game!

I would file this under "live and learn"!!

I would file this under "live and learn"!!

I suppose the lesson learned since you put it that way is avoid WS and take AC instead.

I guess those savings for the cheap flight south didn't really materailize, eh? Next time stick to an all Air Canada or all WestJet itineraries next time!!

If they'd phoned from WJ's toll free number from the airport in Jamaica, could the entire episode could have been avoided?

I'm sure WJ would have told them the connecting flight was full but they could always standby in case someone didn't show up. As all seats are bought and paid for, with WJ having 100% of the cash in the bank before the airplane leaves the gate, there's no reason to overbook and I was once told that WJ had less than a 1% no show rate.

At that point, they'd have paid the fare differential which is pretty standard for any airline I've any flown on with a discount ticket. If that didn't work, I think a credit file would be issued for pretty close to the full amount of the ticket and they could do what they want!

I missed a Canucks hockey game once with $200 tickets. I don't think they would have given me tickets to the next nights game because of my dumb ... mistake!! Even if it wasn't my mistake, it wasn't the Canuck's fault I missed the game!

I would file this under "live and learn"!!

AC is not cheaper than WS by policy and practice. It was just a lucky coincident.

AC does not allow “standby” for cheaper economy fare. Same day change is allowed for a fee and no fare difference if space is available.

The key difference is that AC’s later flight was not full but WS was full.

If AC’s later flight was full, they would have to be rebooked on the next day too and would have been subject to both the change fee and fare difference.

Not sure if there were any other passengers on the delayed Skyservice who were also connecting to the WS flight. If those other passengers had rung from MBJ, they might have grabbed those last seats earlier than OP's employees who waited until they arrived at T3 at YYZ. We shall not know!

...The original fare was $817.25 per person - not exactly a "seat sale"! Here is what was charged for each person:
"Fee - No Show Reacomm: 245.00"
"Fee - NS Exception: 40.00"
Plus GST of course

What this and your change fee experience illustrate is that WS has a good PR team, that leads people to believe they will walk on water for a customer, and that they are the lowest fare airline. Neither is true, but more power to their image makers, I guess.

This is an unfortunate pitfall of using 2 different airlines on 2 separate tickets involving an intermediary connecting point to get to and from a destination, usually to save a few dollars.

If they had used WS or AC all the way, it would not have been an issue. They gambled, and they lost, just like at the casino.

If they have bought travel insurance, they may be able to claim reimbursement although I do not know if Skyservice, as a chartered carrier, qualifies.

BINGO! You hit the nail right on the head.
If you chose WS the whole way, should you have missed the connecting flight you would have been automatically rebooked on the next available flight with the option to purchase standby on the later flight. Should you be unsuccessful WestJet would have issued you a hotel for the night.

From my understanding (I am not a CSA, just a Flight Attendant) when anyone misses a connection due to any kind of delay on WestJet's part they are put up for the night. We are an industry leader in caring for our guests. I'm not sure about Southwest, but I know not many other airlines will put you up for missing a flight leg on your itenerary due to a delay on WestJet's part.

Sorry about your situation :(

What this and your change fee experience illustrate is that WS has a good PR team, that leads people to believe they will walk on water for a customer, and that they are the lowest fare airline. Neither is true, but more power to their image makers, I guess.

LeSabre,
WestJet markets itself as a "Low Cost Carrier" not a "Discount Airline" There is nothing in writing from WestJet claiming or guaranteeing we are cheaper than any competitor out there. Currently on the website there's a banner saying"low fares" but that doesnt mean lower than him or lowest in the industry...

Simply we pride ourselves on being a Low Cost Carrier. This, however, causes a misconception with a lot of people where they end up thinking Low Cost means low fare - however it really means low overhead and operating costs. Meaning it costs less for WestJet to operate on a day to day basis.

LeSabre,


Simply we pride ourselves on being a Low Cost Carrier. This, however, causes a misconception with a lot of people where they end up thinking Low Cost means low fare - however it really means low overhead and operating costs. Meaning it costs less for WestJet to operate on a day to day basis.

A misconception that I'm sure is intentional. The only reason WS would think anyone cares what their operating costs are is so that they will then automatically think their fares are lower.

A misconception that I'm sure is intentional. The only reason WS would think anyone cares what their operating costs are is so that they will then automatically think their fares are lower.

Are you sure about that? While I see you point, and don't necessarily disagree, Westjet was also quite proud of trumpeting the fact that they had X consecutive profitable quarters.

Are you sure about that? While I see you point, and don't necessarily disagree, Westjet was also quite proud of trumpeting the fact that they had X consecutive profitable quarters.

They might put the profitable quarters thing in news releases relating to financial news about the company, they don't advertise that they have had x number of profitable quarters. But they certainly did have things about being Canada's Low Cost Airline (or similar wording) in their ads for years. They wanted people to assume that meant low cost to the consumer.

They wanted people to assume that meant low cost to the consumer.

And it certainly seems to have worked - the X profitable quarters in a row sort of prove it!

And while we argue the difference between low-cost, discount, budget airlines (nb - perhaps compare Y fares, or drops in fare prices once WS launches service [YQB, YZF...]), Lev is still @ YYZ T3 left scratching his head about his change fees.

Lev, I've done my research and you're right about the Tango Plus 'same day change' which is pretty neat cause it comes confirmed, with no difference in fare. Compare to WS Early Show @ $40/ Late Show @ $45 which are considerably cheaper, which is good, but is also standby, which is bad. And while the WS confirmed change fee on similar fare types is lower than Tango & T-Plus *before the day of departure*, the AC fees are considerable higher @ $50-$150 BUT they are confirmed.

So do you want to pay less money but fly standby... or more money for confirmed??? Rock... hard place...?

And while we argue the difference between low-cost, discount, budget airlines (nb - perhaps compare Y fares, or drops in fare prices once WS launches service [YQB, YZF...]), Lev is still @ YYZ T3 left scratching his head about his change fees.

Lev, I've done my research and you're right about the Tango Plus 'same day change' which is pretty neat cause it comes confirmed, with no difference in fare. Compare to WS Early Show @ $40/ Late Show @ $45 which are considerably cheaper, which is good, but is also standby, which is bad. And while the WS confirmed change fee on similar fare types is lower than Tango & T-Plus *before the day of departure*, the AC fees are considerable higher @ $50-$150 BUT they are confirmed.

So do you want to pay less money but fly standby... or more money for confirmed??? Rock... hard place...?

But keep in mind, we don't overbook our flights, and people DO no-show so its really not all that bad. There;ve been flights that were 100% booked solid and 2 people woth priority above me and i've gotten on because one person no-showed.
(2 jump seats in the flight deck for employees, and one cabin seat available)

More reason to consider AC as well.

And while we argue the difference between low-cost, discount, budget airlines (nb - perhaps compare Y fares, or drops in fare prices once WS launches service [YQB, YZF...]), Lev is still @ YYZ T3 left scratching his head about his change fees.

Lev, I've done my research and you're right about the Tango Plus 'same day change' which is pretty neat cause it comes confirmed, with no difference in fare. Compare to WS Early Show @ $40/ Late Show @ $45 which are considerably cheaper, which is good, but is also standby, which is bad. And while the WS confirmed change fee on similar fare types is lower than Tango & T-Plus *before the day of departure*, the AC fees are considerable higher @ $50-$150 BUT they are confirmed.

So do you want to pay less money but fly standby... or more money for confirmed??? Rock... hard place...?

Mindful that one may only take advantage of AC's Tango Plus same day change flat fee if there is seats in the same class available for sale. AFAIK AC does NOT allow gate standby.

In the OP's original case, spaces in the same class were fortunately available for sale on a later AC flight. If the flight was full, OP would not be allowed to standby and would have to fly on the next day. He would be subject to both the change fee and fare difference surcharge similar to WS.

Over on the Southwest web site, they are directing people to Westjet for connections to Canada. WN should warn their customers about the difference in policies on changes. Will Westjet accommodate a Southwest delay on a codeshare now or in the future? I try to use Southwest whenever I can. Westjet needs to consider being less AC and more WN.

Over on the Southwest web site, they are directing people to Westjet for connections to Canada. WN should warn their customers about the difference in policies on changes. Will Westjet accommodate a Southwest delay on a codeshare now or in the future? I try to use Southwest whenever I can. Westjet needs to consider being less AC and more WN.

check out the WestJet Care-antee

Over on the Southwest web site, they are directing people to Westjet for connections to Canada. WN should warn their customers about the difference in policies on changes. Will Westjet accommodate a Southwest delay on a codeshare now or in the future? I try to use Southwest whenever I can. Westjet needs to consider being less AC and more WN.

check out the WestJet Care-antee

Last i checked, AC has none of this posted on their weebsite.

check out the WestJet Care-antee

Last i checked, AC has none of this posted on their website.
So? My point was that WJ is more like AC than like WN. The list is entirely in terms of comparison with AC - and not with WN. It would be nice to operate exactly as the most successful US airiline does, and to whom WJ claims to be in a partnership, not as an AC with intentions to do better in some areas (but not to compete widely).

And in the end, the list is not backed up with any real penalty if any of the points are missed:

"Small Print
This is the spot where you normally find all the rules and conditions. But let's face it; stuff happens and things change. What we can promise is that we'll do our best and do it with a smile."

Over on the Southwest web site, they are directing people to Westjet for connections to Canada. WN should warn their customers about the difference in policies on changes. Will Westjet accommodate a Southwest delay on a codeshare now or in the future? I try to use Southwest whenever I can. Westjet needs to consider being less AC and more WN.

Apples and oranges. The passengers in the OP were on a separate ticket with a different PNR. From the WJ standpoint, they missed the flight. Period. They didn't misconnect, because there's no connecting flight in the passenger record. As someone else mentioned, this is one of the risks you take when you don't have a through ticket from A to C via B.

Don't know how WestJet would handle it if the two separate tickets were on the same airline, but most airlines would say "tough luck" (and rightly so) and then do what they could to reaccommodate, but without any obligation.

Apples and oranges. The passengers in the OP were on a separate ticket with a different PNR. From the WJ standpoint, they missed the flight. Period. ....most airlines would say "tough luck" (and rightly so) and then do what they could to reaccommodate, but without any obligation. That's the point. Compare this to Southwest: they simply allow you on another flight with no special fee. They operate in a universe that has been successful and customer-oriented with both financial and operational success. When I arrived in time for an earlier flight at BWI recently, Southwest simply allowed me to board based on my boarding pass for a later flight, not on what I paid for the ticket. They were then in a position to sell my vacated seat on the next flight and avoided an empty on the one I took. In the same situation on Westjest, I was told that it would cost hundreds to change the ticket and fare class. So a flight went out with empty seats and I waited. Again, thinking and operating in terms of Southwest's policies will surely be a positive change.

So? My point was that WJ is more like AC than like WN. The list is entirely in terms of comparison with AC - and not with WN. It would be nice to operate exactly as the most successful US airiline does, and to whom WJ claims to be in a partnership, not as an AC with intentions to do better in some areas (but not to compete widely).

I disagree that they should "operate exactly" as Southwest, and evidently WestJet agrees with me. Here's a quote from Sean Durfy.

"The model for Southwest works in the United States still. Southwest has 18 per cent of the market share in the United States. They're the largest airline in the world. They will move about 110 million people on 560 planes. Wow! And they only have 18 per cent of the market. You know, our situation is a little different. If you look at this month, we have 40 per cent of the domestic market. We have 76 aircraft. You know, it's different. Our environment and our market are different. Southwest has these huge centres that they fly a lot of point-to-point traffic. We don't. We have network flow. We've got a very limited number of large cities in Canada. So we have to flow our aircraft across the country. Our geography makes it such that our network plan is quite a bit different than anybody else's; because, as you know, 85 per cent of all the people in Canada are stretched along 100 miles of that border, right? So the geographic disbursement is kind of ugly. So the model in itself has to be different. So then to change a little bit more – as long as you don't really screw with the fundamentals, and our fundamentals really are: low cost structure, a tremendous culture and a great guest experience, right? So those three are darned important to us."

From: http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090428.wmooredurfy0428/BNStory/robAtWork/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20090428.wmooredurfy0428