Asiana Club - Soft landing?

I vaguely remember this topic was briefly discussed a little while ago, but can't rememeber whether there was a concensus. I did try to search, but had no success. In any event, does anyone know whether OZ does soft landings for elite status? If so, do they drop you one level at a time or all the way down to the lowest elite level? TIA.

LAX

Are you asking about the old rules or the new rules? I think for the old rules they may have had a soft landing, though I have absolutely no interest in the old rules as I only started with Asiana Club once the new rules went into effect. Maybe someone else has a definitive answer about that.

As per the new rules, IMHO it's very clear that there is no soft landing. During the first two years, and each successive two-year qualifying period, you qualify for the level that you will earn for the following two years. So you could potentially drop from Diamond/Diamond Plus all the way to Silver if you didn't fly enough during the next qualifying period after earning that status. There was a post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/10830436-post44.html) where the poster claimed there is a soft landing under the new rules, but when questioned on it, he/she never replied. Being there is absolutely no mention of a soft landing in the new rules, I'd guess there's almost no chance of it happening, so don't count on it. Nobody will know for certain what OZ will do though until December 2012 when the first people who earned status under the new rules will enter their next status period.

Are you asking about the old rules or the new rules? I think for the old rules they may have had a soft landing, though I have absolutely no interest in the old rules as I only started with Asiana Club once the new rules went into effect. Maybe someone else has a definitive answer about that.

As per the new rules, IMHO it's very clear that there is no soft landing. During the first two years, and each successive two-year qualifying period, you qualify for the level that you will earn for the following two years. So you could potentially drop from Diamond/Diamond Plus all the way to Silver if you didn't fly enough during the next qualifying period after earning that status. There was a post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/10830436-post44.html) where the poster claimed there is a soft landing under the new rules, but when questioned on it, he/she never replied. Being there is absolutely no mention of a soft landing in the new rules, I'd guess there's almost no chance of it happening, so don't count on it. Nobody will know for certain what OZ will do though until December 2012 when the first people who earned status under the new rules will enter their next status period.

In most programs the soft landing is an unpublished benefit. So most FFP will state that you only get the status based on your flights. In reality most programs will allow a soft landing.
So while the rules are very clear, we need more evidence how OZ will handle the situation.

I vaguely remember this topic was briefly discussed a little while ago, but can't rememeber whether there was a concensus. I did try to search, but had no success. In any event, does anyone know whether OZ does soft landings for elite status? If so, do they drop you one level at a time or all the way down to the lowest elite level? TIA.

LAX

From the Asiana Club member guidebook, it clearly states the following:

"2. Failure to requalify for an Elite status will result in a
downgrade to the next lower class."

Hence, Asiana, using the new rules, still offers a soft landing :)

You can find a copy of the guidebook using the following link:

http://us.flyasiana.com/Global/upload/download/club/club_guideline_en.pdf

Hope that helps :)

Interesting. When this question first came up several months ago, I scanned the rules and there was no mention of this then that I found, so upon seeing it's in there now I checked my old documents. I found that the original updated rules did not have this information, but sometime later they merged the new rules into the original rules document and reissued the rules. If you notice, the line below what you quoted states:
3. Qualification and retention of Platinum, Diamond and Gold
status is dependent upon the members meeting the defined
eligibility criteria of the program.
There is no mention of Diamond Plus in that quote. So clearly someone took the original text and didn't bother updating it for the new rules. Whether that means that your quote was left in there intentionally or not then isn't clear.

Being the current revised rules do clearly state that there is a soft landing, I imagine they'd likely honor it if brought to there attention, even if that wasn't their intention and it isn't done automatically. If I were earning miles with OZ in the expectation of using the soft landing feature, I think I'd get a printed copy of the rules and save if in case it was needed.

From the Asiana Club member guidebook, it clearly states the following:

"2. Failure to requalify for an Elite status will result in a
downgrade to the next lower class."

Hence, Asiana, using the new rules, still offers a soft landing :)

You can find a copy of the guidebook using the following link:

http://us.flyasiana.com/Global/upload/download/club/club_guideline_en.pdf

Hope that helps :)

Thanks. I guess I should have read it a little more carefully!:p I asked because I am debating whether I should stop crediting to OZ at 40K or try for 100K (kind of difficult for me) within the 2 year qualification period. If there is soft landing, I can potentially get 4 years of *G following the initial 2-year qualification period. Thanks.

LAX

I asked because I am debating whether I should stop crediting to OZ at 40K or try for 100K (kind of difficult for me) within the 2 year qualification period. If there is soft landing, I can potentially get 4 years of *G following the initial 2-year qualification period. Thanks.


You will already get (almost) 4 years of *G if you just enrolled in Asiana, e.g. enrol Apr 2009, fly 40k in Apr 2009. *G until end of May 2013.

You will already get (almost) 4 years of *G if you just enrolled in Asiana, e.g. enrol Apr 2009, fly 40k in Apr 2009. *G until end of May 2013.

What I meant was after the initial 2-year qualification period, I would still get at least 4 full years of *G (almost 6 in total) if soft landing applies. For example, spread out 100K over 2009 and 2010. Diamond Plus in 2011 and 2012 with no additional credit to OZ. Drop to Diamond in 2013 and 2014 based on zero flying in 2011 and 2012 qualification period. Did I get this right?

LAX

What I meant was after the initial 2-year qualification period, I would still get at least 4 full years of *G (almost 6 in total) if soft landing applies. For example, spread out 100K over 2009 and 2010. Diamond Plus in 2011 and 2012 with no additional credit to OZ. Drop to Diamond in 2013 and 2014 based on zero flying in 2011 and 2012 qualification period. Did I get this right?

LAX

Yes, you are correct.

The only thing I would say is that I wouldn't dissect any sentence in the English version of the Asiana rules. While it may sound like this has been changed to previous versions and was done intentionally and with OZ knowing the consequences it could also just be the result of someone just changing the text slightly because it sounds nicer.

What I meant was after the initial 2-year qualification period, I would still get at least 4 full years of *G (almost 6 in total) if soft landing applies. For example, spread out 100K over 2009 and 2010. Diamond Plus in 2011 and 2012 with no additional credit to OZ. Drop to Diamond in 2013 and 2014 based on zero flying in 2011 and 2012 qualification period. Did I get this right?

LAX

If getting 100K in two years is a little difficult for you, then how long will it take you to get the 40K for Diamond? I'm guessing almost a year. During that time, you won't have *G status, so you won't be getting 6 years, only about 5 years. For example:

Sign up now (April 2009) for Asiana Club and your 2-year qualifying period begins
Fly 40K in the next year and get Diamond (*G) at that time (April 2010)
Fly 60K in the following year (up till April 2011) and get Diamond Plus
April 2011 - April 2013, don't fly but have Diamond Plus status
April 2013 - April 2015, soft landing to *G
April 2015 lose *G

So if this scenario plays out, you will have *G from April 2010 to April 2015 (5 years), for 100K miles. But I'd like to ask you, do you need Diamond Plus? Do you fly OZ much? If not, why are you bothering? If you just fly 40K every two years (average 20K per year) you'll still maintain *G continuously and you won't have to worry about stretching it to make the 100K for Diamond Plus.

BTW, if you've already signed up for Asiana Club, your qualifying period clock is already ticking so you'll have even less time to enjoy *G status.

If getting 100K in two years is a little difficult for you, then how long will it take you to get the 40K for Diamond? I'm guessing almost a year. During that time, you won't have *G status, so you won't be getting 6 years, only about 5 years. For example:

Sign up now (April 2009) for Asiana Club and your 2-year qualifying period begins
Fly 40K in the next year and get Diamond (*G) at that time (April 2010)
Fly 60K in the following year (up till April 2011) and get Diamond Plus
April 2011 - April 2013, don't fly but have Diamond Plus status
April 2013 - April 2015, soft landing to *G
April 2015 lose *G

So if this scenario plays out, you will have *G from April 2010 to April 2015 (5 years), for 100K miles. But I'd like to ask you, do you need Diamond Plus? Do you fly OZ much? If not, why are you bothering? If you just fly 40K every two years (average 20K per year) you'll still maintain *G continuously and you won't have to worry about stretching it to make the 100K for Diamond Plus.

BTW, if you've already signed up for Asiana Club, your qualifying period clock is already ticking so you'll have even less time to enjoy *G status.

The reason I am debating whether to try for Diamond Plus is I am projecting an unusual increase in travel next year. If I stop crediting them to OZ after hitting 40K, I will probably put the rest (around 50K) into another FFP. Since I don't see much benefit in having *G in two programs (perhaps some of you can enlighten me?!), plus I am not sure what my flying pattern will be for the next qualification period, so I am trying to see if I should make a push for Diamond Plus while I have a legitimate shot and guarantee myself 4 years of *G even if I fall short of requalifying for Diamond in the next 2-year qualification period. Am I making any sense?

BTW, I do realize Diamond Plus doesn't really benefit someone who does not fly OZ regularly over Diamond. Hence, I really won't bother if soft landing is not offered by OZ.

LAX

Sounds like a good reason to shoot for D+. If I was in your position I'd consider calling OZ and asking them specifically about the soft landing, quoting the text in their rules that says they have it, and based on their answer would make my decision.

Sounds like a good reason to shoot for D+. If I was in your position I'd consider calling OZ and asking them specifically about the soft landing, quoting the text in their rules that says they have it, and based on their answer would make my decision.

I was going to call and confirm it before I make any concrete moves. But, I figure since many of our seasoned FTers are often more knowledgable than the CSRs I encounter, I should consult here first! Plus, since I often get Korea-based CSRs when I call, I am a bit leery about them understanding the term "soft landing."

LAX

I was going to call and confirm it before I make any concrete moves. But, I figure since many of our seasoned FTers are often more knowledgable than the CSRs I encounter, I should consult here first! Plus, since I often get Korea-based CSRs when I call, I am a bit leery about them understanding the term "soft landing."

LAX

I will be interested in hearing if the CSR contradicts the revised guidebook. Good luck :)

talking about soft landing, whats the number of months before they close accounts?

I'll try to make a point of checking the with Asiana Club counter at ICN for you on my next trip through there, probably next Friday. Talking to them face-to-face definitely gives you more confidence in their answer than on the phone.

I'll try to make a point of checking the with Asiana Club counter at ICN for you on my next trip through there, probably next Friday. Talking to them face-to-face definitely gives you more confidence in their answer than on the phone.

That will be great if you can! TIA.

LAX

I checked today at the ICN Asiana Club counter. I pointed specifically to the text in the rules and asked if I would be downgraded to Diamond when my Diamond Plus expires if I didn't fly anymore. The answer was "no, you'll be downgraded to silver" and the lady pointed to the qualification table just below the text I was referring to. So I asked then why that text was there. She checked the Korean rules and evidently they've updated the Korean rules to delete that. I saw the same 3 footnotes in the online Korean edition, but I had downloaded that a few months ago and the current printed version does not have those 3 footnotes anymore, or at least neither she nor I could find it. I'll have to double check all that later, but the bottom line was she admitted that footnote 2 looks to be a mistake where they simply forgot to delete it from the old rules.

I checked today at the ICN Asiana Club counter. I pointed specifically to the text in the rules and asked if I would be downgraded to Diamond when my Diamond Plus expires if I didn't fly anymore. The answer was "no, you'll be downgraded to silver" and the lady pointed to the qualification table just below the text I was referring to. So I asked then why that text was there. She checked the Korean rules and evidently they've updated the Korean rules to delete that. I saw the same 3 footnotes in the online Korean edition, but I had downloaded that a few months ago and the current printed version does not have those 3 footnotes anymore, or at least neither she nor I could find it. I'll have to double check all that later, but the bottom line was she admitted that footnote 2 looks to be a mistake where they simply forgot to delete it from the old rules.

Thanks. Otherwise, I would have to find out the hard way!:p

LAX

I checked today at the ICN Asiana Club counter. I pointed specifically to the text in the rules and asked if I would be downgraded to Diamond when my Diamond Plus expires if I didn't fly anymore. The answer was "no, you'll be downgraded to silver" and the lady pointed to the qualification table just below the text I was referring to. So I asked then why that text was there. She checked the Korean rules and evidently they've updated the Korean rules to delete that. I saw the same 3 footnotes in the online Korean edition, but I had downloaded that a few months ago and the current printed version does not have those 3 footnotes anymore, or at least neither she nor I could find it. I'll have to double check all that later, but the bottom line was she admitted that footnote 2 looks to be a mistake where they simply forgot to delete it from the old rules.

Thanks for the update. I knew the new rules was not as good as the old ones but this new ruling is quite harsh compared to the other frequent flyer programs out there :(

Thanks for the update. I knew the new rules was not as good as the old ones but this new ruling is quite harsh compared to the other frequent flyer programs out there :(

How can it be harsh given such low EQM threshold for *G and *S compared to most of other *A airlines?

Name a few airlines that gives you 50% mileage discount on mileage upgrade for just 20K miles a year and extra % of miles flown for elite members.

How can it be harsh given such low EQM threshold for *G and *S compared to most of other *A airlines?



Absolutely agree. Flying 40,000 in two years to be *G or 20,000 in two years to be *S, what airline out there offer such a low requirement ?

Four transpacific roundtrip in two years already grant you to *G, is it really that hard at all ? A student who study overseas who go back home to see the parents once in summer and once for Christmas for two years can already get to be Diamond.

Besides, what airline out there would only drop you down to one level if you didn't fly at all for the entire year ? Maybe in the past, but not in this cash-strapping economy. If you don't fly, then you drop to the basic level, there is always someone out there can afford to, and those customers are more important. Even I can see OZ is tightening its belt by cutting cost here and there.

Besides, what airline out there would only drop you down to one level if you didn't fly at all for the entire year ?

Actually, almost all airlines will.

But I fully agree, it is not harsh to not have a soft landing when the qualification requirement is so low.
However, with OZ I will only believe that there is no soft landing once we have evidence here. Just because OZ says so doesn't mean a lot too me.

Actually, almost all airlines will.



I know for sure not SQ, CX, and all US carriers.

A littlle OT perhaps....

IF I sign up on say, 2nd oct 2009, my reference day starts from 1st oc 2009 or 1st oct 2008?
I have 2 years to accumulate miles for status starting from which date and ending when?

When i qualify for the first tier, is my 2 year period reset for next tier attainment?

I have read the rules online but it is the reference day that is very confusing:(

If you sign up on Oct. 2, 2009, then that date is your reference day, not 2008. So you would have 2 years from that date, until Oct. 1, 2011 to earn your status. Your 2-year qualifying period is never reset midstream. Once you sign up, it's based on that date and every two years after that it gets reset, continuing on forever or until they next update their program rules. So in the above example, if you qualified for Gold after six months, on April 2, 2010, your qualifying period would still be until Oct 1., 2011. Then if you further reached Diamond six months later, on Oct 2, 2010, still your qualifying period would be until Oct 1, 2011. Then if you say flew another 40,000 miles in the next year, they wouldn't count for any status (other than towards lifetime Platinum) because from Diamond (40K) another 40K gets you to 80K but isn't enough for the next status level (100K - Diamond Plus). On Oct. 2, 2011, your status (qualifying) miles get reset, but you still maintain your status you earned for the next two years.

If you sign up on Oct. 2, 2009, then that date is your reference day, not 2008. So you would have 2 years from that date, until Oct. 1, 2011 to earn your status. Your 2-year qualifying period is never reset midstream. Once you sign up, it's based on that date and every two years after that it gets reset, continuing on forever or until they next update their program rules. So in the above example, if you qualified for Gold after six months, on April 2, 2010, your qualifying period would still be until Oct 1., 2011. Then if you further reached Diamond six months later, on Oct 2, 2010, still your qualifying period would be until Oct 1, 2011. Then if you say flew another 40,000 miles in the next year, they wouldn't count for any status (other than towards lifetime Platinum) because from Diamond (40K) another 40K gets you to 80K but isn't enough for the next status level (100K - Diamond Plus). On Oct. 2, 2011, your status (qualifying) miles get reset, but you still maintain your status you earned for the next two years.

Thanks for the info. ^
So everybody has an individual reference day, right?

Thanks for the info. ^
So everybody has an individual reference day, right?
Yes, for all new members. For anyone who was a member prior to Oct 1, 2008. They all get the same Oct 1, 2008 reference date when the new rules went into effect.

Yes, for all new members. For anyone who was a member prior to Oct 1, 2008. They all get the same Oct 1, 2008 reference date when the new rules went into effect.

^

How can it be harsh given such low EQM threshold for *G and *S compared to most of other *A airlines?

Name a few airlines that gives you 50% mileage discount on mileage upgrade for just 20K miles a year and extra % of miles flown for elite members.

Agreed the threshhold is attractive but when you compare the Earnings with other programs, it isn't THAT attarctive.
e.g all C fares earn you 125% wheras most other programs offer you 150%-200%.
Also, since there is no minimum mileage for even C fares intra-europe on certain carriers, e.g on Swiss, therefore it is very unattractive for eu based people doing lots of shirt-hop travel.

e.g. Lon-Zrh-Gva-Bcn RT in business class on Swiss Air gives you 11,000 miles on LH M&M (35,000 miles needed in a year for *S=OZ gold).
On BMI DC you get 7200 miles (38,000 miles needed for *G=OZ diamond).

I do not know how many measley miles you would earn on OZ?

So, clearly, 20,000 miles in a year however small they might seem, infact depends on who you fly with!

Having said all above, the fact that you get 2 years to accumulate miles in OZ is definitely a very good thing as compared to other programs.

OZ's earn rates of 125%/150% for C/F are pretty much the standard for FFPs in Asia that I'm aware of. You're correct that when compared to FFPs outside of Asia the rates don't look so attractive, but they're not trying to compete against European or American FFPs. Same with earning on intra-European flights. They're not interested in competing on those terms because most of their customers are Korean and have little or no interest on enhanced earnings on those flights.

Each airline's FFP is geared mostly to residents of the country they're based in. If you're not a resident of that country, then chances are you're taking a pretty big hit right there in losing out on many benefits available only or primarily for that market. They may offer some promotions and offers in other markets, but likely they're second-rate to what's offered in the primary market.